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Old 02-10-2005, 01:53 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by snooper
What is wrong is not that I dislike you, but that I disapprove of what you did.

As BS said:
and the Internet is full of examples of this. Literotica is very full of this on other fora. The GB is supposed to be for anything anyone wants to post.

The top three threads at this moment on the AH are
1) Floundering In Misery?
2) Prince Charles to Marry Camilla - Pope Leaves Hospital
3) Boycott Walmart
All clearly about authoring erotica, or questions to authors <note the heavy sarcasm>.

The definition of the Editors Forum on the front page is "A place to discuss story editing issues with our volunteer editors." My plea was for that aim to be upheld; the cause of my sadness and my criticism of you as the moderator is that you have posted - as your first new thread since taking office - a thread which directly goes against that remit.

You are now part of the Literotica management team, so it is, as I have said before, your (collective) web site - do as you please, but do not expect me to approve of your starting the EF down the slippery slope which has all but wrecked the AH.
Snooper, while your opinion is appreciated, it seems that you're not stopping to logically consider a much bigger picture here.

Because of someone competent now taking the helm of the EF it's going to become a friendlier place, where editors are going to want to chat. Editors are people, and it is part of human nature that people will want to chat with like-minded people about a variety of subjects other than just vocational, even if that vocation is voluntary.

By starting this thread Lady has given a contained controlled environment that can be kept free from flamers and trolls, while at the same time keeping the rest of the EF from looking like the GB, as you pointed out.

If Lady had not started a thread like this then chatty VEs would have, or worse, started many threads like this. Then you would have had something to actually complain about and Lady would have a great deal more difficulty weeding that crap out.

Disagree with LadyC all you like. In the long run this thread will have greater benefit to the EF than you're currently unable to foresee.
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"Do not believe in what you have heard; do not believe in traditions because
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because it is rumored and spoken of by many; do not believe merely because
the written statement of some old sage is produced; do not believe in
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elders. After observation and analysis, when it agrees with reason and is
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Old 02-10-2005, 01:56 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by LadyCibelle ...there was nothing wrong with the forum before...
I am afraid that I belong to the school of thought which believes, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".
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Old 02-10-2005, 01:57 PM   #28
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Thank you

Mr Horns.

You really are an angel in disguise

I should listen more to my friends and stop getting my panties all bunched up by the nay sayers and/or those who are too far gone to see the good in what I'm trying to achieve here.


Yep that's what I said Snoop...you are too far gone to see the good in changing things sometimes...it happens when you're "old" Not talking about physical age here..just the one of the heart and mind and can't stand new blood doing things differently than the "ancient" did before
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Old 02-10-2005, 01:58 PM   #29
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I generally only lurk here in the Editors' threads so my opinion should carry no weight, but that's never stopped me from giving it before. I agree wholeheartedly with Snooper. I am happier with this thread now that it is a sticky and has been renamed, but I still feel that it is out of place on this forum.

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Old 02-10-2005, 01:58 PM   #30
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What in hell does ad hominem mean anyway?

ad hominen

I just know it's something bad ... I've seen it a few times in arguments before.

If this post is off topic, please delete it, but I would like to know.
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Old 02-10-2005, 02:03 PM   #31
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Re: What in hell does ad hominem mean anyway?

Quote:
Originally posted by Captain Midnight
ad hominen

I just know it's something bad ... I've seen it a few times in arguments before.

If this post is off topic, please delete it, but I would like to know.
This post can't be off topic in this thread. In the rest of the EF it definitely would be.
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The Artists Corner

"Do not believe in what you have heard; do not believe in traditions because
they have been handed down for many generations; do not believe anything
because it is rumored and spoken of by many; do not believe merely because
the written statement of some old sage is produced; do not believe in
conjectures; do not believe merely in the authority of your teachers and
elders. After observation and analysis, when it agrees with reason and is
conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up
to it."
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Old 02-10-2005, 02:03 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by minsue
I generally only lurk here in the Editors' threads so my opinion should carry no weight, but that's never stopped me from giving it before. I agree wholeheartedly with Snooper. I am happier with this thread now that it is a sticky and has been renamed, but I still feel that it is out of place on this forum.

Miss Minsue,

This thread was never intended to remain "floating" on the EF. I always intended to "stick" it.

As for you being a regular or not I couldn't stress enough that everyone's opinion counts.
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Old 02-10-2005, 02:03 PM   #33
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Re: What in hell does ad hominem mean anyway?

Quote:
Originally posted by Captain Midnight
ad hominen

I just know it's something bad ... I've seen it a few times in arguments before.

If this post is off topic, please delete it, but I would like to know.
ad hominen means "against the man" or "against the person."

Last edited by BlackSnake : 02-10-2005 at 02:05 PM.
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Old 02-10-2005, 02:11 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by snooper
I am afraid that I belong to the school of thought which believes, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".
You're absolutely correct. But consider this: Even the wheel feels better on the road since it was improved from stone to rubber. Being flexible reaps the better rewards.

I encourage people to disagree, that way more than one mind is contributing to what's happening. Always know, however, that someone has to make the final decisions. Sometimes those decisions will sway towards one side's view, sometimes the other, and once in a great while a decision will be made that somehow works for everyone.

I think I can also safely say that LadyC is strong enough of mind and will that if she does something that truly turns out to be a bad idea she will graciously correct it and move on.

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The Artists Corner

"Do not believe in what you have heard; do not believe in traditions because
they have been handed down for many generations; do not believe anything
because it is rumored and spoken of by many; do not believe merely because
the written statement of some old sage is produced; do not believe in
conjectures; do not believe merely in the authority of your teachers and
elders. After observation and analysis, when it agrees with reason and is
conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up
to it."
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Old 02-10-2005, 04:11 PM   #35
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Mature and adult enough

LadyCibelle has done her part to keep the thread clean and gotten rid of the flaming and petty fights that occured earlier.
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Old 02-10-2005, 05:27 PM   #36
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Re: Mature and adult enough

Quote:
Originally posted by LadyCibelle
LadyCibelle has done her part to keep the thread clean and gotten rid of the flaming and petty fights that occured earlier.
Now that you have restored order. Have you learned anything about football yet?
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Old 02-10-2005, 05:29 PM   #37
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Re: Re: Mature and adult enough

Quote:
Originally posted by BlackSnake
Now that you have restored order. Have you learned anything about football yet?
Nope not a single thing....unless you mean "proper" football (soccer) than yeah I'm learning
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Old 02-10-2005, 05:45 PM   #38
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Re: Re: Re: Mature and adult enough

Quote:
Originally posted by LadyCibelle
Nope not a single thing....unless you mean "proper" football (soccer) than yeah I'm learning
Yes, you are learning that soccer is about as exciting as watching the grass grow, while the NFL is where its at.

The Pro-bowl game is being played on Sunday, that's why I'll be in a rush to get back in town. The most exciting athelete in the world will be playing.
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Old 02-10-2005, 05:57 PM   #39
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Mature and adult enough

Quote:
Originally posted by BlackSnake
Yes, you are learning that soccer is about as exciting as watching the grass grow, while the NFL is where its at.

The Pro-bowl game is being played on Sunday, that's why I'll be in a rush to get back in town. The most exciting athelete in the world will be playing.
Quite the contrary...from what I've seen Soccer is very interesting with easy to understand what is happening....whereas the Football...wellll nothing to understand there
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Old 02-10-2005, 06:08 PM   #40
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Mature and adult enough

Quote:
Originally posted by LadyCibelle
Quite the contrary...from what I've seen Soccer is very interesting with easy to understand what is happening....whereas the Football...wellll nothing to understand there
The best think about football is seeing the bodies crashing together.

Last edited by BlackSnake : 02-10-2005 at 06:16 PM.
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Old 02-10-2005, 06:27 PM   #41
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Mature and adult enough

Quote:
Originally posted by BlackSnake
The best think about football is seeing the bodies crashing together.
No. The best thing about football is the cheerleaders. Priorities people...
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The Artists Corner

"Do not believe in what you have heard; do not believe in traditions because
they have been handed down for many generations; do not believe anything
because it is rumored and spoken of by many; do not believe merely because
the written statement of some old sage is produced; do not believe in
conjectures; do not believe merely in the authority of your teachers and
elders. After observation and analysis, when it agrees with reason and is
conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up
to it."
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Old 02-11-2005, 06:08 AM   #42
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Re: What in hell does ad hominem mean anyway?

Quote:
Originally posted by Captain Midnight
What in hell does ad hominem mean anyway?
An example:

I don't believe that cows go green if they eat too much grass because John Doe said so.

This is an ad hominem argument since the reason for your disbelief is the identity of the original speaker.

I don't believe that cows go green if they eat too much grass because there are no green cows.

This is NOT an ad hominem argument since the reason for your disbelief is observation of the facts.

Edited to add:-
The reason it is considered "bad" is that the character of the speaker is not usually a good reason for doubting a statement, though for some politicians I do wonder.

Last edited by snooper : 02-11-2005 at 06:12 AM.
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Old 02-11-2005, 11:09 AM   #43
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Thumbs down My Mood

My mood sucks!

First, I am in theat nether world of having had a third interview for a job an dwaiting to hear if I got the job.

My mother dresses me funny.

I had a great idea for a story last night in a fever induced inspiration. can I remember it now? NOOOOOO! Just bits and pieces, dammit!

My latest story was apporoved but is it up there? NOOOOO.

I want to volunteer as an editor, but don't have the talent.

Lifes a bitch.......and then you marry one!

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Old 02-11-2005, 07:14 PM   #44
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My day has gone fairly well. This afternoon my dog, who had a paralyzing stroke along her spine two weeks ago, had an appointment with her PT. The appointment went exceptionally well as the PT said that she (my dog) was already past where she was expected to be in her recovery.

The PT asked me why the dog was already so far along and I told her about a past experience I went through when I was 4yrs old that left me in a similar state as my dog is now, also at age 4. I've been working her the same way I was worked as a child and those things have been forcing her to get better faster. That, along with her own will to be as ambulatory as she was previously, has been helping her along considerably faster than she might with an owner who doesn't know squat about this stuff.

The shit we do for a family member...
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The Artists Corner

"Do not believe in what you have heard; do not believe in traditions because
they have been handed down for many generations; do not believe anything
because it is rumored and spoken of by many; do not believe merely because
the written statement of some old sage is produced; do not believe in
conjectures; do not believe merely in the authority of your teachers and
elders. After observation and analysis, when it agrees with reason and is
conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up
to it."
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Old 02-11-2005, 07:23 PM   #45
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As long as we have respect for one another ...

Professionally, I think we all respect one another. Personally, people can be very sensitive. I'm among the worst of them. I may be different in that I'm afraid to say what I mean for fear of offending somebody. I'm also very sensitive to real or implied criticism of my lifestyle or the way I work.

To stay on topic: a few days ago I read a story I absolutely hated. Someone else, an anonymous poster, hated it too. I broke my own rule and gave a 1 vote to the story. I subsequently had a rather spirited discussion with the author. I expressed my views, she expressed her views. There was nothing wrong with the story except the shock twist that showed the protagonist as a Ted Bundy-like sadistic sociopathic killer. And that was the author's intention. I vented to Lady Cibelle and sent her the story and all the correspondence that went with it.

LadyCibelle loved the story. Because of her background in psychology and criminology, she checked it for accuracy and whether it had its desired effect. It passed muster in every stage. When I calmed down from my self-righteous anger (quite often I do act like the hardest-nosed of the Bible thumpers), I wrote the author and told her about LadyCibelle and how this author should have her for a friend.

We're not always qualified to judge stories (our own or others). Even if we write a super story and feel good about it, we may be blinded by our own prejudices, particularly about what constitutes a "good" story. Some weeks back, I came to the defense of another author whose female character finally gave in to a male virgin's pleas to get laid. The young man was hopelessly inept at sex (and very conceited about his abilities as a stud!), and the woman, though the sex was consensual, still felt abused. Several posters went after this lady, and I don't know if she ever posted again. This time, I stood up for her and recognized what she was trying to say. The next time I wasn't so fortunate.

Message boards can be very useful tools or ghastly ones. I want to offer a heartfelt Thank You to snooper and blacksnake for giving me the definition of ad hoiminem. From what I had heard of it in other areas, it sounded like it meant a personal attack on someone's character rather than on the merits of his/her work -- but disguised as the latter. Sounds like I was off target. I don't know if there is a Latin term for what I have described. If there is, I'd like to hear it.

As long as we understand and respect one another -- and seek input on editorial matters when we need to -- I think this forum will work out just fine.
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Old 02-11-2005, 08:34 PM   #46
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ad hominem

Actually it is and appeal against the person.

I refer you all to fundemental Critical Thinking.

Is is meant to sway an agrument against a particular view di to the person. For instance a "YOU TOO!" argument.
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Old 02-11-2005, 09:53 PM   #47
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Wow,

You all have really deep conversation when I'm not there!! Are you scared of getting me into a philosophilcal conversation with you? You know you'd lose uh

Seriously I'm glad to see that there are people talking here and sharing views on everything We all have things to share and believe it or not I really think we can learn from one another and become better individual.

In case I don't talk to any of you during the weekend I'll take this opportunity to wish you all a very happy VD. Plenty of love, kisses and evertything else.

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Old 02-11-2005, 09:59 PM   #48
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I usually try to stay the hell out of political goings on, but this really irked the crap out of me. Can anyone else here see the potential bad things that could come from the subject of this article?

FCC Asks For Reform Of Open Meeting Law

February 10, 2005

Two FCC members -- Chairman Michael Powell and Commissioner Michael Copps -- have sent a letter to Senate Commerce Committee Chairman Ted Stevens, a Republican from Alaska, asking for reform of the open meeting requirement of the Government In Sunshine Act, saying, "the Commission's decisional processes are impaired by this requirement."

The Government In Sunshine Act was set in place to keep meetings by government agencies in the public eye. Specifically, it is for agencies with two or more individual members that also have a majority of whom are appointed to their position by the President with the advice and consent of the Senate. A portion of the Sunshine Act prohibits two or more members from talking face-to-face outside the confines of a commission meeting, meaning they often have to communicate through their staff, written messages or in one-on-one meetings.

Currently, since three votes make up a majority on the FCC, any meeting of three or more commissioners must be open to the public. If the Sunshine Act is amended, Powell and Copps state the five-member FCC would meet privately only "in appropriate circumstances."

Powell and Copps assert that the Sunshine Act has not "achieved its goal of having Commissioners help shape each other's views in the course of public deliberations" stating the limitations imposed by the Sunshine Act are "a barrier to the substantive exchange of ideas among Commissioners, hampering our abilities to obtain the benefit of each other's views, input, or comments, and hampering efforts to maximize consensus on the complex issues before us."

"We fully support the Act's goal of informing the public about the decision making processes of multi-member agencies," added the two FCC commissioners. "However, we believe amendments to the Act could enhance the efficiency and soundness of the process. At the same time, safeguards could be devised that would ensure that the goal of open government is not jeopardized."

With the FCC currently mulling over decisions that will effect media ownership levels, digital television and telecom companies, indecency, among many other hot topics that have big business implications, Powell and Copps feel Commissioners would benefit from closed door meetings, saying some commission decisions are "less well informed and well explained than they would be if we each had the benefit of the others' expertise and perspective."
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The Artists Corner

"Do not believe in what you have heard; do not believe in traditions because
they have been handed down for many generations; do not believe anything
because it is rumored and spoken of by many; do not believe merely because
the written statement of some old sage is produced; do not believe in
conjectures; do not believe merely in the authority of your teachers and
elders. After observation and analysis, when it agrees with reason and is
conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up
to it."
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Old 02-11-2005, 10:04 PM   #49
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welcome to the new United states , my friend

you can'r have a theocratical facist state with the sunshime law! you didn't really think Bush was a good ol' boy Repub did you?
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Old 02-11-2005, 10:07 PM   #50
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Re: welcome to the new United states , my friend

Quote:
Originally posted by Chagrined
you can'r have a theocratical facist state with the sunshime law! you didn't really think Bush was a good ol' boy Repub did you?
Oh, HELL NO!!! This didn't surprise me so much as just pissed me off because of the possible long-term effects that it can have. I am actually surprised that they didn't try this much sooner, like just a BCH over 4 yrs ago.
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The Artists Corner

"Do not believe in what you have heard; do not believe in traditions because
they have been handed down for many generations; do not believe anything
because it is rumored and spoken of by many; do not believe merely because
the written statement of some old sage is produced; do not believe in
conjectures; do not believe merely in the authority of your teachers and
elders. After observation and analysis, when it agrees with reason and is
conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up
to it."
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