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View Poll Results: underage erotic stories: good, bad or somewhere inbetween?
i'm fine with the idea. afterall, it's just fantasy. 9 20.00%
as long as it stays within certain limits i'm ok with it (explain below, please) 17 37.78%
eighteen is the perfect limit. anything else is obscene. 16 35.56%
i have no opinion on the issue. 3 6.67%
Voters: 45. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-03-2004, 06:07 PM   #1
killallhippies
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underage sex stories.

this is not a poll to say that laurel should allow underage stories. it's her site. she owns it. she can put whatever the fuck she wants on it and refuse to put whatever she doesn't. that isn't the issue.

i'm looking for a general opinion on the subject. that's all. nothing more. so... without further ado...


underage sexual encounters in stories: ok within limits, ok all around or bad, bad, bad?

vote and discuss.



oh, and i'm aware this has been done before, but it never hurts to do it again.
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Old 09-03-2004, 06:25 PM   #2
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Hmmm, I'm sorry but pedophilia just creeps me out even as a fantasy. There is something there in it that's different from bestiality, s&m, incest, and all that and similar to rape.

I believe that a story about a seventeen year old or sixteen year old wouldn't really ranckle my hackles, but I'd like to discourage a tale about daddy and his six year old slut. Also, attracting the attention of a morality obsessed congress is not high on my list of things to do today.

So I guess, what I'm saying is that I'm for the 18 yr. old limit, but not for the reason you listed.
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Old 09-03-2004, 06:34 PM   #3
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I voted the second choice. Of course I would not want to read anything to do with pedophilia, but then I'm not certain exactly what age differences I would feel Ok about (many variables involved). "All teen" sex stories involving young people of the same age would be great to read if told well and with authenticity.

Perdita
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Old 09-03-2004, 06:38 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lucifer_Carroll
Hmmm, I'm sorry but pedophilia just creeps me out even as a fantasy. There is something there in it that's different from bestiality, s&m, incest, and all that and similar to rape.

I believe that a story about a seventeen year old or sixteen year old wouldn't really ranckle my hackles, but I'd like to discourage a tale about daddy and his six year old slut. Also, attracting the attention of a morality obsessed congress is not high on my list of things to do today.

So I guess, what I'm saying is that I'm for the 18 yr. old limit, but not for the reason you listed.
Yes, I agree. While undoubtedly many 17 year olds hang out in bars which one never nows until the day after, a limit must be drawn in the sand.

Sex with children not only offends a great deal of readers, but worse, can bring a wash of nightmares for more of the population than we would care to discuss outside of a news forum bringing attention to the "serious" psychological effects that sex with minors brings about.
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Old 09-03-2004, 07:08 PM   #5
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Interestingly I didn't actually see the words minors or paedophilia in the poll, but that is immediately what people wish to disavow all knowledge of and hatred for.

Underage on this site is 17 and below.

Me, I'm all for letting kids be kids for as long as they can, which incidentally, includes pre-pubescent experimentation.

While-ever grown ups stay out of the picture, it all comes naturally.

Underage over here is 15 and below and at 15 is rarely actually punished.

What I find distasteful is seeing a 23 year old guy with an 'obvious' 15 year old.

Conversely I have no real qualms about seeing a 23 year old woman with a 15 year old boy.

I'm talking about walking down the street hand in hand. Or "slorming" all over each other at the school gates.

But a child is a child and should remain so for as long as possible.

Prurient 'innocence' holds no charm for me.

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Old 09-03-2004, 07:27 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by gauchecritic
Interestingly I didn't actually see the words minors or paedophilia in the poll, but that is immediately what people wish to disavow all knowledge of and hatred for.

Underage on this site is 17 and below.

Me, I'm all for letting kids be kids for as long as they can, which incidentally, includes pre-pubescent experimentation.

While-ever grown ups stay out of the picture, it all comes naturally.

Underage over here is 15 and below and at 15 is rarely actually punished.

What I find distasteful is seeing a 23 year old guy with an 'obvious' 15 year old.

Conversely I have no real qualms about seeing a 23 year old woman with a 15 year old boy.

I'm talking about walking down the street hand in hand. Or "slorming" all over each other at the school gates.

But a child is a child and should remain so for as long as possible.

Prurient 'innocence' holds no charm for me.

Gauche
OK revise. Yes, I agree that kids of relatively the same age experimenting is fine. I have written it into a story, its humourous, as it is at that age when you haven't the faintest idea what you are doing. I am working on a story that contains this aspect, and maybe or maybe it won't be accepted here. However, I speak merely in terms of 'children' and 'adults', while a turn on to too many, what age does one draw a line?

I am not opposed to 14 and above, as one day I would like to write of my own experiences. That is in reality, the age that many girls at least, begin to have sex or think about it. I am opposed to anything below high school. Why? Well, as Gauche points, it isnt an issue.

I do have a problem with coersive sex under that age, and only because I have seen far too many people suffer.
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Old 09-03-2004, 07:27 PM   #7
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I tend to think underage sex is more disturbing than erotic. Obviously it happens and when you are talking about a pair of 17 year olds there is generally a live and let live attitude I think. The problem is we all know it goes on at far younger ages and once you accept 17, you have a hard time drawing the line. Sixteen year olds can be just as experimentive, then 15 etc. etc. Where do you draw the line?

There are some very good first time stories out there where the age is young enough to cause me to be put off. I suppose the answer is much like the generic answer for many of the writing questions I see here. If it is done right, by an author who has the technical skill and imaginitive grace its all right.

As with most kinks, it is the gratuitous use of age in a story that is a real turn off, just as the gratuitous use of violence, D/s play or any other kink is.

For me, I can really do without it. I don't feel I am missing much if anything by avoiding stories where the characters are less than the age of conscent.

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Old 09-03-2004, 07:37 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by CharleyH
OK revise. Yes, I agree that kids of relatively the same age experimenting is fine. I have written it into a story, its humourous, as it is at that age when you haven't the faintest idea what you are doing. I am working on a story that contains this aspect, and maybe or maybe it won't be accepted here. However, I speak merely in terms of 'children' and 'adults', while a turn on to too many, what age does one draw a line?

I am not opposed to 14 and above, as one day I would like to write of my own experiences. That is in reality, the age that many girls at least, begin to have sex or think about it. I am opposed to anything below high school. Why? Well, as Gauche points, it isnt an issue.

I do have a problem with coersive sex under that age, and only because I have seen far too many people suffer.
i like your revision. this pretty much my take on the issue, though, as a story, i see nothing wrong with coersive sex as long as the consequences are shown. that's a rarity though. most of the stories involving this sort of rape make it appear as if it's all fine and dandy.
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Old 09-03-2004, 07:48 PM   #9
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It is difficult to compose a convicing father/daughter incest story with the girl being eighteen.

In real life girls are deflowered by their fathers at a much earlier age?
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Old 09-03-2004, 07:55 PM   #10
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Re: underage sex stories.

Quote:
Originally posted by killallhippies
underage sexual encounters in stories: ok within limits, ...
My only problem with an age limit is that it restricts realistic narrations of a characters sexual history and realistic historical fiction.

I don't particularly enjoy or advocate stories involving prepubescent children, but the sad fact is that that sort of thing does happen, and it has long-lasting effects on a person's sexuality well into adult-hood.

An arbitrary age limit of 18 flies in the face of reality and history because an 18 year-old virgin is, and always has been, relatively hard to find.
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Old 09-03-2004, 07:57 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by killallhippies
i like your revision. this pretty much my take on the issue, though, as a story, i see nothing wrong with coersive sex as long as the consequences are shown. that's a rarity though. most of the stories involving this sort of rape make it appear as if it's all fine and dandy.
There are too few stories and films dealing with the detrimental aspects (I will never say consequences since that to me relates to a perpetrator) and I believe a story written in this way is worth every cent and more than a million. It is an issue which we sweep under the carpet.

The consequences for many effect the rest of their lives and it is painful to see and hurtful to deal with as a partner of someone who has gone through this. I think, if you are writing this kind of story than go for it, because it needs to be an issue - Yet, I doubt Lit is a forum for this, as we all see. If you write something of this nature you may ask Laurel, I am not sure it will happen. There are other places such a story would do well - publishing for example - depends. I am for the most part anti-censorship, but to be anti-censorship is a fine line in itself - what do I accept, what don't I? I know what I do, but why? As Colly points out in not so many words, there is a 14 year old and a 13 year old . . . I dunno.

Can I ask why you are asking?
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Old 09-03-2004, 08:01 PM   #12
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Gosh!

How long do I have to wait until my latest story has aged sufficiently to be posted?

I never realized that porn stories had so much in common with cheese.
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Old 09-03-2004, 08:03 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by CharleyH
There are too few stories and films dealing with the detrimental aspects (I will never say consequences since that to me relates to a perpetrator) and I believe a story written in this way is worth every cent and more than a million. It is an issue which we sweep under the carpet.

The consequences for many effect the rest of their lives and it is painful to see and hurtful to deal with as a partner of someone who has gone through this. I think, if you are writing this kind of story than go for it, because it needs to be an issue - Yet, I doubt Lit is a forum for this, as we all see. If you write something of this nature you may ask Laurel, I am not sure it will happen. There are other places such a story would do well - publishing for example - depends. I am for the most part anti-censorship, but to be anti-censorship is a fine line in itself - what do I accept, what don't I? I know what I do, but why? As Colly points out in not so many words, there is a 14 year old and a 13 year old . . . I dunno.

Can I ask why you are asking?
Anyone know how Laurel deals with vague allusions to the event (aka, not a sexually explicit description of the horrific rape of a child, but more like a sobbing memory, a character enhancement given to another character to symbolize a risking of the character)?

I don't see why she'd ban it if you avoided any sexually explicit description of the event, but I don't know her well enough to say this for sure.
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Old 09-03-2004, 08:07 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lucifer_Carroll
Anyone know how Laurel deals with vague allusions to the event (aka, not a sexually explicit description of the horrific rape of a child, but more like a sobbing memory, a character enhancement given to another character to symbolize a risking of the character)?

I don't see why she'd ban it if you avoided any sexually explicit description of the event, but I don't know her well enough to say this for sure.
Not yet. I imagine that if PMing Laurel and explaining . . . well she would answer in her very up front way.
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Old 09-03-2004, 08:09 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lucifer_Carroll
Anyone know how Laurel deals with vague allusions to the event (aka, not a sexually explicit description of the horrific rape of a child, but more like a sobbing memory, a character enhancement given to another character to symbolize a risking of the character)?

I don't see why she'd ban it if you avoided any sexually explicit description of the event, but I don't know her well enough to say this for sure.
My understanding is that you may allude to an experience that is prior to 18. As long as you don't provide details of the event that are sexually explicit.

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Old 09-03-2004, 08:09 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by CharleyH


Can I ask why you are asking?


because i'm curious about the opinions of people who actually write stories here. it's a mildly important issue.


also because i write stories with teenage characters. i hate the age restrictions on this site. i really wish i could post everything i write here.


and another reason is i was discussing this issue with someone else who posts here who pointed me to some other sites that don't have lits age limits. it just got me thinking.
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Old 09-03-2004, 08:17 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by killallhippies
because i'm curious about the opinions of people who actually write stories here. it's a mildly important issue.


also because i write stories with teenage characters. i hate the age restrictions on this site. i really wish i could post everything i write here.


and another reason is i was discussing this issue with someone else who posts here who pointed me to some other sites that don't have lits age limits. it just got me thinking.
Well, one must respect the limitations (however rebellious ya want to fucking be ) Nonetheless, I really think it depends on the site. For underage explicit, I am certain that there would be laws (god there are laws for everything) that Laurel must adhere to, and not to mention Laurel and Manu's own personal feelings, as owners, to what they do and don't want on their site?
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Old 09-03-2004, 08:25 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by CharleyH
Well, one must respect the limitations (however rebellious ya want to fucking be ) Nonetheless, I really think it depends on the site. For underage explicit, I am certain that there would be laws (god there are laws for everything) that Laurel must adhere to, and not to mention Laurel and Manu's own personal feelings, as owners, to what they do and don't want on their site?
last i heard there is no federal law against fictional stories about underage sex. laurel has even said that it's her personal preference and not a legal issue. i'm fine with that like i said in my initial post. i just don't like it.

anyway, i was just curious about how everyone else felt.
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Old 09-03-2004, 08:40 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by killallhippies
last i heard there is no federal law against fictional stories about underage sex. laurel has even said that it's her personal preference and not a legal issue. i'm fine with that like i said in my initial post. i just don't like it.

anyway, i was just curious about how everyone else felt.
HA! Well you would be surprised. There are fed laws EVERYWHERE. Fast track to your computer . . . . joking, it depends. What are you asking? What do you want to write? Possibly submit?
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Old 09-03-2004, 08:46 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by CharleyH
HA! Well you would be surprised. There are fed laws EVERYWHERE. Fast track to your computer . . . . joking, it depends. What are you asking? What do you want to write? Possibly submit?

what? my question has already been asked and i write what i want to write. i'd like to be able to post some of my stories involving 16 and 17 year olds. i have a lot of gay stories involving characters of these ages losing their virginity to each other.

and i know i could post them if i was vague about their ages, but i don't like that.
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Old 09-03-2004, 09:02 PM   #21
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1 Sex does happen to adolescent girls.

2. It is not always a negative experience.

3. These stories are works of fiction!

I was deflowered by my father at age thirteen and it was a positive experience!
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Old 09-03-2004, 09:12 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cumbaby
1 Sex does happen to adolescent girls.

2. It is not always a negative experience.

3. These stories are works of fiction!

I was deflowered by my father at age thirteen and it was a positive experience!
oy...
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Old 09-04-2004, 12:04 AM   #23
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There's a odd thing in this thread, where the opening question was about *stories.*

Almost everyone except Perd is answering the question: what kinds of youth sex do you approve of?

Taking Charley H, as an example --nothing personal


OK revise. Yes, I agree that kids of relatively the same age experimenting is fine. I have written it into a story, its humourous, as it is at that age when you haven't the faintest idea what you are doing. I am working on a story that contains this aspect, and maybe or maybe it won't be accepted here. However, I speak merely in terms of 'children' and 'adults', while a turn on to too many, what age does one draw a line?

I am not opposed to 14 and above, as one day I would like to write of my own experiences. That is in reality, the age that many girls at least, begin to have sex or think about it. I am opposed to anything below high school. Why? Well, as Gauche points, it isnt an issue.

I do have a problem with coersive sex under that age, and only because I have seen far too many people suffer.

-----

Do you Charley apply this approach to other stories? Do others?
For example, I am oppposed to husbands murdering their wives, which is not uncommon.

I guess there shouldn't be stories of that.

I'm opposed to young person's bullying one another: Let's stop those stories.

I'm greatly opposed to a fanatic flying a plane into a building and killing hundreds of people. Scratch that.

----
Surely it's impossible to decide on what should be tell-able in stories, based on what acts we disapprove of or hate?
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Old 09-04-2004, 01:32 AM   #24
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I've met many people who were raised in ways that strike me as unusual, whether that involved physical punishment, sexual abuse, strange ideological indoctrination, or bizarre family dynamics. All of them have, at one point or another, insisted that there was nothing wrong with the way in which they were raised, and that in fact it was a positive and significant part of their development.

Some of them later changed their minds. Some rather drastically. Some have not.

There is no answer to "I was raised experiencing <X>, and I have no problems with it." This is not because there is no inherent proof that the behaviors are detrimental, but because the argument forces any respondent to attack the speaker personally. One generally prefers not to do this.

I will only observe that in general terms, not all of my assorted friends and relations have been correct in their initial opimistic analyses of their experiences, and that I feel justified in having viewed their statements with some skepticism.

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Old 09-04-2004, 01:34 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pure
There's a odd thing in this thread, where the opening question was about *stories.*

Almost everyone except Perd is answering the question: what kinds of youth sex do you approve of?

Taking Charley H, as an example --nothing personal


OK revise. Yes, I agree that kids of relatively the same age experimenting is fine. I have written it into a story, its humourous, as it is at that age when you haven't the faintest idea what you are doing. I am working on a story that contains this aspect, and maybe or maybe it won't be accepted here. However, I speak merely in terms of 'children' and 'adults', while a turn on to too many, what age does one draw a line?

I am not opposed to 14 and above, as one day I would like to write of my own experiences. That is in reality, the age that many girls at least, begin to have sex or think about it. I am opposed to anything below high school. Why? Well, as Gauche points, it isnt an issue.

I do have a problem with coersive sex under that age, and only because I have seen far too many people suffer.

-----

Do you Charley apply this approach to other stories? Do others?
For example, I am oppposed to husbands murdering their wives, which is not uncommon.

I guess there shouldn't be stories of that.

I'm opposed to young person's bullying one another: Let's stop those stories.

I'm greatly opposed to a fanatic flying a plane into a building and killing hundreds of people. Scratch that.

----
Surely it's impossible to decide on what should be tell-able in stories, based on what acts we disapprove of or hate?
I think partly its a matter of toeing the line what with the current bruhaha in congress about internet porn and how its luring kids to be sex addicts and all that. I think a fictional story about kid raping or kid sex may be technically legal but still would require a costly court debate with an uncertain outcome.

On a personal note, child sex really creeps me out. The rape and one-sided element is a bit much for me even in fiction and frankly the fact that in a take all approach we'd have a section devoted to child sex would make me less likely to post here. I know many authors here already feel a bit "off" writing incest, and many have cried dismay on how those stories are the most and best voted on.

So from a standpoint of avoiding court battles and keeping authors it makes sense from Laurel's point of view. Her decision to publish is her decision and is based on the types of people she wants reading and writing.

Personally my objection is writing the shit, feeding the passions of people who may later rape their six-year old daughter. There is something more than mere curiosity or out-there enjoyment or fantasy about pedophilia and rape. I know I can't stop them, but I'd rather not feed their urge nor belong to a site that does. I may use the issue in some story. I may even someday write a rape story. Rest assured that it will not flame lust, but be a hearty condemnation of the acts, a moralist tale.

The teen on teen angle is a different world I agree, but I respect the delineation.

Your other examples are shit because a book on those will not feed their hunger and validate them. A murder your wife book is not likely to cause a man who merely dislikes his wife, to shoot her in the face. Young bully books are not read by young bullies, societal training to maim the weak does that. I doubt I could have encouraged people who were ready to sacrifice themselves from Allah to do it better or more vehemently. Those aren't lusts to be fed. I wouldn't personally write these books and would feel uncomfortable reading them. Chances are I'd be more likely to write the anti-version or the sardonic version of those books.

Anyway, that's just one demon's take on it. It's a personal fallacy I know, but I hate child molestors and will not be a part of the industry catering to them.
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Alive, alive in perpetuity, the redhaired angel is. We shall never forget your time on Earth. Viva Colly. Viva where your heart has gone.



Someday, I wish to be worthy of having received this comment from her. It is one of the last things she said to me:

Colly: Still, I hope you knopw just how much I think of you and your intellect. You're one of those peole I am very proud to call freind.
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