Poem of the Moment

I was doing this anyway when it occurred to me that there is no earthly reason not to share. Why do I do it? To keep in practice. i r a colij stoodint & i r a eenglish mayjur. I’m doing creative writing, heavy on the poetry and creative non-fiction. I would like to make good grades. I’ve been taking poems off the web and beating them to death with my mighty spork of criticism. Stick a spork in it; that puppy is done! I can find all the poems I want at Lit and I like Lit, so I can see no reason to not confine my efforts to Lit poetry. I’m sure that I won’t be doing this regularly, like I do everything.

Having done this sort of thing before, I will set forth a few guidelines:

• I firmly believe that once you put a piece of work out for public consumption, you no longer have any say whatsoever in who reads it and what they do with the opinions the form on reading it. Hence, I can critique you however I want whether you like it or not. I will not include the poem itself in the post since it is not mine and I will fervently hope the poems are not later removed from the site by the poet. I can, however, include quotations from it, quite legally, without permission, for the purposes of criticism. I choose to exercise that right will ye, nill ye. I will remove no criticism. It is equally against forum rules to have criticism removed simply because you didn’t want to be criticized. If you don’t want me to have an opinion on your work, don’t share it with me.
• Don’t bother asking me to do your poem. I’m not going to. I will only give this much effort to poems that catch my eye in some way when I find them on one of the poetry lists on the main index pages. If you’ve annoyed me, I’ll ignore you. If I know you’re one to yank stuff off the site frequently, I won’t do your poetry, either. There’s no point in sharing if the poem is likely to be unavailable in the near future.
• I welcome and enthusiastically crave discussion about poetry. That’s what the first half of any criticism I get myself into is about anyway. The technical part of the poem is less than half of it. The meaning in the poem is most of it. In order to figure out how best to convey meaning, we must first understand what that meaning is. If anyone has any thoughts on whatever I’ve said, please feel free to share. I will take you seriously no matter what your poetry background is or how comfortable you are with the jargon. Poetry discussion involves readers first, poets second!
• This is about criticism, not critique or feedback, though these elements are involved here and not in real literary criticism. I’m doing this primarily for my own edification. This is the best way I know to learn poetry. I see criticism as a symbiotic relationship between Muffie and Poet. I get something out of it and (I’m arrogant enough to assume) the poet gets something out of it.
• I encourage other poets to do this type of criticism, no matter what their background in poetry. It really helps.

My criterion for criticism:

• The poem must be read at least three times, preferably with time in between readings. Additionally, words that aren’t in every day use are looked up in the OED (I have access!) and unfamiliar or unusual references are googled. Connotation and denotation are of utmost importance in a poem.
• The most important part of the criticism is to figure out what the poem is up to. Not what the author is trying to say, but what the poem is doing. As a recent professor of mine says, “What the author is trying to achieve suggests a focus that’s too narrow, as if this were argumentative prose with a single clear purpose. Poetry is far more various and nuanced, and sometimes even the author won’t know all that the poem is Up To until the reader brings in his or her own experiences.” In other words, this is what I think the poem is about.
• The poem’s strengths. What’s so good about it? Why is it good? How does the good stuff fit in with the overall poem-picture?
• The poem’s weaknesses. What’s not so good? Why is it not so good? How does the not-so-good stuff get in the way of the poem? Can it be fixed? In what ways might (not can) it be fixed?
• Lastly, offer no edits of the poem. Suggest devices to look at or use, but do not actually edit the poem to show those devices in use. It’s up to the poet to make it say what s/he wants it to say.

Cathederal Grove
by Tristesse

Poem found at: http://www.Literotica.com:81/stories/showstory.php?id=153868, please drop by and vote.

Cathedral Grove (at least on the first few google pages) is a national park in Vancouver, British Columbia. It is distinctly possible that the title refers to some other Cathedral Grove, but considering the content of the poem, it’s likely that whichever C.G. it refers to, the C.G. is forest of some sort. On its face, this poem is about the spring in the woods, “rebirth” (1) and “spring” (6) are the largest seasonal clues available.

Digging a little deeper into the theme and meaning, the poem tackles the next, most obvious theme (aside from springtime) involved in forestry: life and death. The first and second lines make overt references to life. It is born, it is alive. Later, “armies of insects / hatch” (10-11) and “the life-force” (14) unfolds. Death is touched on both as means to further life and the ultimate consequence of it. “saplings [are] succored / by their parent’s prone / and rotting forms” (3-5). Life is the proverbial circle where the living feed off of the dead. This notion of interconnectivity between life and death is somewhat morbid, but it’s also uplifting. The parents may die, but they live on through their children. As life is necessary for death to happen, death is likewise necessary for life to happen. The poem deals with death as more than a continuation of life, but as a consequence of it. The “armies of insects” (10) are not only born, they die.

A third theme in this poem that brings a fascinating depth to it. Religion. It’s an obvious and a hidden theme all at the same time. It’s obvious by the overt references to both the Christian ethos and the Greek pantheistic ideals, but the vivid imagery surrounding the processes of spring hide it. It begs the question, did the poet choose the title “Cathedral Grove” for that purpose or was it just one of those happy poetic coincidences? The poem opens with the heavily Christian ideal of Christ’s rebirth. After a nod to the Hebrew [praise to Jehovah] “hallelujah”(9), the poem throws three words out at the end of three lines “truth”(12), “existence”(15), and “redemption”(16). These three words are the basic vocabulary of nearly every religion, if not all, in existence. Religion calls itself the truth and it’s concerned with the existence of humanity and its environs as well as the redemption from suffering. It’s interesting to note that Hallelujah is a semi-Christian religion practiced in certain parts of South America. This Church combines Christian beliefs with Amerindian practices. This poem is doing something similar. It’s melding the notions of Christianity with the ideas of nature as existence and the Earth as an entity in of itself.

The poem plays a bit with the ideas of man v. nature. It brings a few words and phrases that are reminiscent of things man-made. In lines 6 and 7, the saplings grow “freshly green / to form new shade”. This is a vague nod toward humanity. Who else but a human would think that a tree grows to form shade? Certainly the plants and animals that live beneath it make use of the shade, but the idea of shade smacks of anthropocentricism. Redemption, hallelujah, and truth are also human ideals that do not exist on their own in nature. It could be argued that Gaia is a natural thing since Gaia is, technically, the Earth. Lastly, the birds live in “high-rise homes” (18). The description, while accurate, is connotative of human creations. The use of this type of phrase isn’t often found outside of references to human dwellings. These words and phrases create a fine tension between man and nature hidden in the depths of the poem. They also bring to mind the question of nature’s purpose in conjunction with mankind. Even the title, Cathedral Grove, indicates that this is a wilderness tamed by man for the purpose of man’s enjoyment.

On the technical side, this is a free-verse, pastoral poem. It makes generous use of such devices as alliteration, assonance, and personification. There doesn’t appear to be a metric scheme, though many of the lines are iambic. The strongest part of the poem is its imagery. My favorite line is “a hundred hues of hallelujah” (9). Not only does it roll smoothly from the tongue, but it makes sensitive use of both alliteration and assonance. Added to that is the interjection of the words “hues” and “hallelujah” to give an exceptionally powerful image in the midst of powerful images. The poem continues with the use of sound as one of its biggest strengths. In addition to alliteration and assonance, the lines flow with few mutes within the line. A mute is a consonant that cannot be sounded without an accompanying vowel. A characteristic of a mute is that when found at the end of a word, it frequently makes the breath or tongue stop for just a moment. While it’s rarely noticed, it does add a rough texture to a line. The sound character of this poem blends well with its subject and its theme; a rougher texture would alter the basic meaning and the stance that this poem appears to take in relation to some of its themes. The gentleness with which it presents the idea of the living growing from the bodies of the dead make it easy to accept and present an optimistic attitude. If the sound had been rough, the attitude would have been more pessimistic and that would have clashed with the theme that death is necessary for life.

There were a few weakness in the poem as well. The foremost being the misspelling of Cathedral in the title. While it is possible that the title refers to place with that actual spelling, not many people would be aware of it. Another potential problem with the title is its vagueness as a reference. While it does bring additional meaning to the poem itself, it makes a reference to something that is outside of the average reader’s ken. Unless the poem is to be read by people in the know, it might be helpful to clarify. The average poetry reader doesn’t use resources outside of the poem to understand it. If an epigraph is added, the poet should remember that the purpose of an epigraph is to show the reader how to read the poem, not just to provide information that won’t be found in the poem.

The meter in the poem did not live up to the smooth gentility provided by the sounds in the poem. In most places, the meter worked with the poem; in a few places, however, it outright clashed. The meter is mostly iambic in flavor. The shorter lines, for the most part, are iambic. The thing about iambic is that it feels a bit gentler than its opposite, trochaic. Considering the tone and themes in the poem, the softer meter should prevail and the harsher one should appear when there is something that requires an aural highlighter. The meter in the poem suffers almost immediately. The first two lines are iambic trimeter. The third line promptly jars this loose with trochaic dimeter, which is one of the harshest textures in poetic meter. Two trochaic feet can be a jagged rock jutting through the flow of an iambic stream. The fourth line doesn’t manage to save the problem. It starts with two weak syllables that could almost pass as a spondee and ends with a strong-weak-strong combination. Unfortunately, the mute consonant “p” of the word parent’s in the middle of the line 4 acts as an aural caesura, though not necessarily one in fact. The method that one must use to actually pronounce the p puts a hard, breath-stop in the middle of the line that has the effect of breaking the line into feet in front of the p instead of at the end of the “par” syllable in the word. This throws the meter off and makes those two lines difficult to scan.

From a diction and syntactical standpoint, there were a few problems. The word “shimmering” in line 11 not only throws the line off metrically , it adds an adverb that doesn’t appear to actually have a purpose in the poem. Seconds do not shimmer, to begin with, and, without anything else in the poem that it could refer to, shimmering simply has no real meaning. In line 9, the hues is used to describe hallelujah and vice versa. These two words really have nothing to do with each other, however, there are several references in the poem that give both hallelujah and hues enough meaning that they make sense together. Shimmering seconds are pretty, but useless. Hues of hallelujah are also pretty, but they have meaning.

The syntax is an interesting kettle of fish. There is a complete sentence or two mixed in with the phrases. The chosen syntax irritates the meter. The human mind reads sentences one way and phrases another. The syntax is rather confusing and muddles the read a bit. The first two lines set the expectation. They form a complete sentence; the first line is a subordinate clause and the second line is the independent clause. After that, lines 3-5 would be a complete sentence if a predicate (specifically “are”) was available. The almost-sentence in lines 6-7 lack a subject. 8 and 9 make a complete sentence, as does lines 10 and ll. The sentences change at line 12 from declarative to imperative (which has the added bonus of an understood you as a subject). Then they shift back to two complete sentences at line 17. There is no meaningful reason for the two fragments in the middle to exist. Additionally, a fragment without an actual subject is confusing. The reader is left wondering what springs freshly. Logically, rotting form springs freshly. Likewise, there is not reason not to use punctuation since the majority of the poem uses sentence structure. Rather than go with lack of punctuation, the poet might look to enjambment and the use of open stanzas to make the point that the lack of punctuation was after. There’s a good reason for using punctuation. Line 10 has a heavy caesura that cleans up the meter. Without the comma, the caesura disappears visually, though it’s still audible, and the reader is left trying to put two feet together into a spondee.

Overall, this poem is an enjoyable read and provides a lot of depth of thought as well as interesting imagery. The use of sound, in and of itself, makes the poem well worth the effort. A little more work with meter and syntax would improve the quality of the sound.

I give it a 4 caramel apple strudel muffins out of a possible 5.


Definitions
Redolent:
  1. Having or diffusing a pleasant odour; sweet-smelling, fragrant, odorous. Now rare.
     b. In fig. context. Obs.
   2. Of smell, odour, etc.: Pleasant, sweet, fragrant.
   3. Odorous or smelling of or with something; full of the scent or smell of. Also fig.
     b. fig. Strongly suggestive or reminiscent of, or impregnated with, some quality, feeling, etc.
Succor: (note: OED spelling: succour)
   1. trans. To help, assist, aid (a person, etc.).
   2. To furnish with military assistance; to bring reinforcements to; spec. to relieve (a besieged place).
   3. To relieve or remedy (a state of want, weakness, etc.); to relieve (a diseased condition). Obs.
   4. To shelter, protect. Now dial.
   5. Naut. To strengthen, make firm or taut.
Hallelujah:
  1. a. The exclamation ‘Praise (ye) the Lord (Jah, or Jehovah)’, which occurs in many psalms and anthems; hence, a song of praise to God; = ALLELUIA int. and n.1
  2. A semi-Christian religion practised among the Carib-speaking peoples of Guyana.

Cathedral Grove: The name "Cathedral Grove" appeared in correspondence to the provincial government in the 1920s. This colourful description of the stately trees is reputed to have originated from the Governor General Viscount Willingdon in April 1928. Cathedral Grove was a well-known tourist stop on the Alberni Road in the 1920s and 1930s when the timber was owned by the Victoria Lumbering and Manufacturing Company. For 15 years the public encouraged the provincial government to acquire the lands within Block 35, Cameron Lake area. The citizens' organizations, The Associated Boards of Trade of Vancouver Island, petitioned the government in 1929 to preserve forever, for the public benefit, the well-known stand of timber at Cameron Lake, known as Cathedral Grove. In 1944 H.R. MacMillan, a well-known forester donated the 136 hectares of land for the perpetual enjoyment of the public in recognition of the unique stand of trees. Three years later, the area was established as a Class A provincial park.

Gaia: Gaia ("land" or "earth", also spelled Ge or Gaea) in Greek mythology embodies the fertility of the Earth. Behind particular aspects of the three-fold goddess, stands the pre-Indo-European Great Mother, a nurturing goddess of death and birth, who was venerated from Neolithic times in the ancient Near East and the Aegean cultural sphere, as far as Malta and the Etruscan lands. Some anthropologists and members of certain religions believe the same divine spirit appeared under many names. These names are said to include Demeter (Roman Ceres) the "mother", Persephone the "daughter" or Hecate the "crone." She could be identified as Rhea. In Anatolia (modern Turkey) she was Cybele. The Greeks never forgot that her ancient home was Crete, where she had always been worshipped as Potnia Theron, the "Mistress of the Animals" or simply Potnia.
The coming of the Olympian gods with immigrants into the Aegean during the 2nd millennium BCE, and the sometimes violent struggle to supplant Gaia, inform Greek mythology with its characteristic tension. Echoes of Gaia's power lingered into the mythology of classical Greece, where her roles were divided among Zeus' consort Hera, Apollo's twin and consort Artemis, and Athena. Unlike Zeus, a roving nomad god of the open sky, Gaia was manifest in enclosed spaces: the house, the courtyard, the womb, the cave. Her sacred animals are the snake, the lunar bull, the pig, and bees. In her hand the narcotic poppy may be transmuted to a pomegranate. Though she is complete in herself, the Triple Goddess often takes a male consort. She was the daughter of Chaos, or according to another version Aether and Hemera, and the mother of Uranus (also her husband), Ourea and Pontus. Uranus and Pontus were born of Gaia alone, without a father. Only a distant echo of Gaia's primal power is to be found in her Roman equivalent, Magna Mater, who was most strongly identified by Romans with Cybele.

Definitions from: http://dictionary.oed.com
Other online resources: http://www.fact-index.com/g/ga/gaia__mythology_.html
http://wlapwww.gov.bc.ca/bcparks/explore/parkpgs/macmillan.htm
Offline resources: None

I bow before thee and thy gloriuos brains (and ankles).

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originally posted by perks

Saturday reviews are up for grabs, starting with this weekend.

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You're hired.

KM

Thank you for introducing this intellectual element to the forum. I am looking forward to your reviews!

I like your no nonesense attitude and explanation up front to quell the whimpers and complaints that would be sure to follow if you hadn't.


~anna

I want to be in an MFA program! Hopefully Dr. Swirls gets a prof. position soon so I can get in free....

Muffie's back & she brought her ankles!!!

Ooh, I do hope you'll be doing this again. Fascinating and edjyamacational all rolled into one.

hats off to you!

who wouldn't appreciate the time and effort invested. i could read through all of the new poems submitted in a day, leave my comments before you finished critiquing a single poem.

What an incredible experience it is to have ones poem dissected and examined as KM has done with Cathedral Grove. She uncovers things I hadn’t realized were there – apart from the misspelled title. :embarrasment:

Cathedral Grove is, indeed, the national park mentioned in Google. It is a preserve of old growth Douglas firs and cedars and is aptly named for the sacred atmosphere. I’m not sure I agree that a title has to be readily meaningful to the reader.

While it does bring additional meaning to the poem itself, it makes a reference to something that is outside of the average reader’s ken. Unless the poem is to be read by people in the know, it might be helpful to clarify.

Click to expand...

All one has to do is look at the listed titles of poets such as Philip Larkin or Billy Collins, for instance, to realise the title needn’t be immediately meaningful to the reader. It should become meaningful as the poem is unwrapped, agreed.

I have to admit, the whole religious theme was unconscious but so obvious when KM pointed it out. I can only say that it was the “holy” feeling, the spirituality of the place, that fed this. My main subject was, as she points out, the cycle of life in nature. (perks is going to have a ball with this.)

I did deliberately use words or phrases to introduce “man” into the equation because man is a presence in the park but I didn’t want “people” to become too much of a presence in the poem. Using “high-rise” was risky and I noticed one of the comments took issue but the idea was to create an image of the bird community high in the canopy.

KM’s paragraphs on the technicalities of my poem blow my mind. I am no poet in the true sense of the word. I paint with words much as I do in other media. I’m never sure where it will take me or what others will see. An idea comes to me and carries me with it where it wants. I don’t sit down thinking of syntax, trochiac dimeters or even iambs – I just write unless it’s a form poem. It’s only recently – this year – that I’ve attempted form poetry and, although I enjoy the challenge, I a need much more practice.

Lastly I want to thank Muffie for doing this. It’s like a free lesson in poetry writing and I can’t say how much I appreciate it. I hope you all get as much as I have out of her efforts. Thank you KilllerMuffin.

WOW!

Well done KM! You have chosen a poem by one the best poets here at LIT for your informative and educational critique. I look forward to another poetry lesson!

Thank you KM

easily the most educational thing I've read here, please do more

BooMerengue said:

bump!​

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Having fun, Boo?

I'm cleaning my cabinets..lmao!! Is it that obvious?? I'm amazed at some of the threads I've subscribed to! sheeeeesh...

But some are interesting, so I thought I'd bump them!

BooMerengue said:

I'm cleaning my cabinets..lmao!! Is it that obvious?? I'm amazed at some of the threads I've subscribed to! sheeeeesh...

But some are interesting, so I thought I'd bump them!

Click to expand...

Thanks for the bump, Boo. It was a very interesting experience. I still hope Muffie comes back for a repeat performance with another poet.

Tristesse said:

Thanks for the bump, Boo. It was a very interesting experience. I still hope Muffie comes back for a repeat performance with another poet.

Click to expand...

Is she still around lit? I know she hasn't been on this board in about year.

WickedEve said:

Is she still around lit? I know she hasn't been on this board in about year.

Click to expand...

I don't think she is around Lit anymore.

I know even when she was scarce she was the moderator of the Story Discussion Circle and they replaced her months ago because she had been absent for so long.