How should I feel?

This is going to be strange for me to do a thread, but I guess I would love some feed back from those who have been in the same shoes as I am.
I was married for about 20 yrs. We did not know either other very long when we got married. About 4 months total. 4 months into the marriage I knew there were problems, but I just keep working on it. I was madly in love with her and showered her with all kinds of love. 2 years later we came close to a divorce because I just felt she did not want me sexually or any other way. She had been married before and had cheated on her first husband and she said she did that because the ex was never around. She never really said why she didn't warm up to me, but she said she did not want another divorce in her life, so we decided to stick it out... and had 3 kids about 2 yrs apart, who we both love and adore. But for most part after they were born she just avoided me. For the longest time I thought it was me. Maybe I was not a good lover or was just so butt ugly... I had no idea why she didn't want me. Well, it got to the point that I just stopped trying and just lived in the marriage. We did not hate each other, but we were just roomies if you want to put it that way.
A few years ago, around 95, I had a scare with my heart and I told her I did not want to continue to live like this. That I wanted a wife not a roommate. She said... and I am qouting here... I have never wanted you or desired you in that way. I said then why did we get married and she said.. I have no idea.
To say the least that really crushed me. I did something stupid about 5 months later and had an affair with a friend. After it ended I decided I did not want to keep doing this so I asked for a divorce and after 2 yrs of fighting over who gets what and stuff, she agreed. (Of course she kept everything and I got some personal stuff and my clothes and a car and that was it. I also had to take all of the bills and leave her with no debt and pay child support which was only to one kid since the others were grown and pay her alimony.) I know my lawyer said that was a rip, but I was to the point that I was just agreeing to get out of the marriage. We decided to stay as close as friends as we could because of the kids. My mom was married 4 times and I hated all the fighting and war crap. I did not want to do that to my kids and for the most part that has worked out ok.
It also came out the reason why she could not be close to me was because she had been abused by some family members and I reminded her of one of them. She never told me this the entire marriage and even when I suggested counseling or getting help, she said it was all my fault because I was a sex addict for wanting it more then once month or two. ( Yea she said that)
Anyway, one of my kids is getting married and my ex and I were talking about the wedding and stuff that had to be dealt with and she said... I am getting married in a few months. I said oh, really? She said yes.. and I don't tell me anything negitive as I am hearing it from others as it is, but I have only known him a month but he is the ONE. I said really? She said yes, and the reason I know this is because I have never had anyone be nuts about me before. I did not say a thing, but I thought.. oh really? Gee I guess I just got married to you for the hell of it.
She started to cry and say how great he was and all and I just sat there and listened and didn't say anything. When she was done, I just said, well I am happy for you and if he makes you happy ... she said he does... I said well then I wish you two the best. She said thank you. It is so great to have someone in my life that just wants to shower me with love. I said well I am happy for you.

Ok... so... I hang up and I am like... what the hell was I? Chopped liver? I know this seems stupid to go on about this... but it really did hurt. She even said.. I hope you do not take it personal. How else am I supposed to take it?

Do I still love her? No, not a romantic love, but a caring love. We did have 3 kids together and we were together for over 20 yrs. I guess I would hope that in that 20 yrs or so, that I meant something to her and not just a sperm donor. Iguess what bothers me is that I am kind of surprised her words stung so much. So... am I being silly or what?

Spenser41 said:

Ok... so... I hang up and I am like... what the hell was I? Chopped liver? I know this seems stupid to go on about this... but it really did hurt. She even said.. I hope you do not take it personal. How else am I supposed to take it?

Do I still love her? No, not a romantic love, but a caring love. We did have 3 kids together and we were together for over 20 yrs. I guess I would hope that in that 20 yrs or so, that I meant something to her and not just a sperm donor. Iguess what bothers me is that I am kind of surprised her words stung so much. So... am I being silly or what?

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No, you aren't being silly. I will never, ever forget the moment my ex-husband, Bill, told me he had found fallen in love again. Oh, my God, but that killed me inside. It wasn't that I still wanted to be with him...I didn't. It wasn't that I was jealous, because I wasn't. But dammit, he wasn't supposed to move on like that, or so my heart said. *sigh*

My reaction absolutely floored me. I was involved with someone at the time, madly in love, and ready to move on and get married again. Then Bill dropped that little bombshell and my whole ego just deflated. I felt like shit. There were so many questions: I wonder why he can make it work with her but he couldn't make it work with me. I wonder if he is happier with her than he was with me in the beginning. I wondered so many things that don't matter, but I couldn't seem to help it. *shrugs*

Bill's grandmother was the one who brought me back on an even keel, though...she was the one who pointed out that if the marriage had been THAT terrible, he would surely never want to try again. The fact that he still believes in giving it a go tells me that what we had WAS worthwhile to him. Maybe taking that approach will help you get over that strange feeling?

So...that long-winded ramble out of the way, lol...I don't think you are being silly. I think it's a natural reaction. News like that slams you in the ego and makes you question everything.





S.

Okay spenser, here goes. This is just my two cents worth.

No you are not being silly. She is doing just what she did your entire marriage and that is trying to manipulate you. It woule seem to me that you were a meal ticket for the entire lenght of the marriage. As to the abused by a family member, I won't even go there so don't ask me too. IF you reminded her so much of an abuser, then why the hell did she marry you in the first place?

As to the rest this mess, one of the best reasons that I can think of NOT TO STAY TOGETHER FOR THE SAKE OF THE KIDS! I say it all the time and I am going to keep saying it.

Now the thing to do is to get thru the wedding of your child and only see her when you absolutely have too.

Shelth,
Thanks for your words. I guess the part about...
I have never had anyone be nuts about me before...
really hurt, because I had been and I was for the early part of the marriage. I remember when the kids were born and how high I felt and how wonderful it was and how much I loved her.
I guess the thing that bothers me is she never felt that way with me and that hurt! It was like rubbing my face it in all over again.
But I will just grin and bare it and just move on and be there for my kids.

Missingmeds said:

Okay spenser, here goes. This is just my two cents worth.

No you are not being silly. She is doing just what she did your entire marriage and that is trying to manipulate you. It woule seem to me that you were a meal ticket for the entire lenght of the marriage. As to the abused by a family member, I won't even go there so don't ask me too. IF you reminded her so much of an abuser, then why the hell did she marry you in the first place?

As to the rest this mess, one of the best reasons that I can think of NOT TO STAY TOGETHER FOR THE SAKE OF THE KIDS! I say it all the time and I am going to keep saying it.

Now the thing to do is to get thru the wedding of your child and only see her when you absolutely have too.

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Meds thank you for your post. I do not really have that much contact with her and when I do it is by phone as we live in two different states. As far as staying married for the kids, I don't think I was doing that on purpose. As I said before divorce is something I lived with many times in my life and one thing I knew was that my dad was never there after the divorce and I love and adore my kids and I lived for them.
I have had many conversations with them since the divorce and they all knew things were not great between my ex and I but it did not hurt them either. They grew up in a loving and caring home.. to them that is. They were not abused and there really was not that much fighting.. just the normal couple crap.
But the daughter who is getting married said to me...
There are a lot of things I have learned from this marriage. There were alot of good things.. but I also so learned... to not withhold affection from my husband and to not make him out to be the bad guy all the time.
So, I will say I disagree with some of what you say because they were not in a war zone as I was with my mom's marriages. And they have told me they knew things were not great but they did say they had lots of love.

well...i read your statement and reflected on my own divorce...that's just to let you know i've been there too...

i know all the feelings you've described...and we worked at working things out till we knew it wouldn't get better...over several years...

you'll put everything in proper perspective if you work at it...i learned at least two things ...

one is that the heart is a fickle thing..and that people bring their own baggage with them wherever they are....

my ex was always troubled by something..molestation by her grandfather when she was little....a distant step father with his own issues...and i think it was all because she couldn't accept herself as is...there was always something wrong...everyone has shit to work through...but she made it a lifelong hobby..and is still at it with number three...and they're having trouble...pretty soon it'll be number four

that may be what she was referring to when your ex said not to take it personally....it means it's her that didn't see the love you showed..she still felt unloved...or as one gf called it "being adored"...

i never remarried having found a peace i treasure more as each year passes....

you'll find whatever it is you want...and without the ice this time

thickspear said:

well...i read your statement and reflected on my own divorce...that's just to let you know i've been there too...

i know all the feelings you've described...and we worked at working things out till we knew it wouldn't get better...over several years...

you'll put everything in proper perspective if you work at it...i learned at least two things ...

one is that the heart is a fickle thing..and that people bring their own baggage with them wherever they are....

my ex was always troubled by something..molestation by her grandfather when she was little....a distant step father with his own issues...and i think it was all because she couldn't accept herself as is...there was always something wrong...everyone has shit to work through...but she made it a lifelong hobby..and is still at it with number three...and they're having trouble...pretty soon it'll be number four

that may be what she was referring to when your ex said not to take it personally....it means it's her that didn't see the love you showed..she still felt unloved...or as one gf called it "being adored"...

i never remarried having found a peace i treasure more as each year passes....

you'll find whatever it is you want...and without the ice this time

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Yea what you went through is just what I went through. Matter of fact if I had known better, you would sound like me. The history is almost the exact thing.
Thanks for your insights. I am at peace with me and where I am in my life. Much happier to be honest, just was caught off guard with her comments. She could always sling those arrows and hit where it hurt. Should have seen it coming. Any half way sensitive person would not have worded it that way.
Thanks again.

Oh Spenser, thank you so much for sharing something so personal. There is so much b.s. on the internet that it's wonderful to know that there's some REAL dialogue going on. That's what makes this site so cool. What impresses me is that you're dealing with your heartache/loss/sadness...thinking about it and talking about it. It takes a lot of courage for you to put your personal feelings out there. Bless you darling. Hold out for what you deserve, a woman who completely adores you.

Hi, don't know if it will help but here are some thoughts from something like the Other side. People who have been badly abused have a heard time feeling that adoration. One reason is that they need so much -- and they want it exactly like they saw it in their heads when they weren't getting it. Movie romance. And they can be very self-involved, as well as acutely sensitive to their own feelings and hurt, while insensitive to how they are hurting others. (Too busy feeling hurt themselves, as well as discounting their effect on others.) My guess is she wanted that adoration to somehow look different than what she got. And that she either mistook a lot of it as sexual overtures -- which don't count because that is seen as the other person wanting something From you, rather than seen as the other person adoring you and wanting to give you something -- or didn't even see what you saw as being adoration. For instance, my husband will do things like put gas in my car as a gesture of love. I Do get it now that typically we give what we want to get, rather than what the other person wants to get, for various reasons, such as that it feels unnatural.
You likely Didn't remind her of the person who molested her when she married you. It was only after you married that she made that connection. That is SO typical. It's a problem with intimacy thing. And a 'seeing the molestor everywhere' thing. She will likely have the same thing happen with her next spouse, too. Unless she picks someone who preferably looks the opposite. There is a lot of weirdness that goes into dealing with that stuff, and as she was unwilling to do therapy... she's not done yet in having it screw up her life.

I am SO sorry you got hurt by that mess and by a woman who is SO MESSED UP. She probably was trying to hurt you -- as she felt she was hurt by you! By your Not adoring her, in her mind.

I'm betting there were some things that went on with you, because of your mom's divorce and fighting that it would still be worthwhile for you to deal with. With friends and journaling, and/or therapy. You stayed with a woman who was very cold to you. Thus managing to do something very different from what you saw with your mom, but still not a good choice. Like you kinda picked the opposite, maybe? Picking the opposite isn't the same thing as free choice. It's still a form of being stuck.

It was SO unfair what happened to you. And she was wrong. YOU know she was. It sounds like saying you were invisible or all your love was nothing. It wasn't nothing. It existed and it was good for your kids to see someone who could love. Maybe think of it like she had a plate of glass between herself and love. She couldn't feel it the way she wanted to. And that didn't mean it wasnt there.

Reminds me of something from a movie called Adaptation, in which one character says how could you keep loving someone who was laughing at you, who treated you so poorly, who was unworthy of that love. Turns out the other guy knew all along and his answer -- if I can get it across right -- was that he loves her, and that No one has the right to destroy his love, even her.

Your love was there. It counted. It still counts. You count.

Ahhhhh

nicegirl69 said:

Oh Spenser, thank you so much for sharing something so personal. There is so much b.s. on the internet that it's wonderful to know that there's some REAL dialogue going on. That's what makes this site so cool. What impresses me is that you're dealing with your heartache/loss/sadness...thinking about it and talking about it. It takes a lot of courage for you to put your personal feelings out there. Bless you darling. Hold out for what you deserve, a woman who completely adores you.

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Thank you nice girl. Your name fits. Yea if you read any of my posts on here, most of them are more of the personal kind and less of sex... not that I don't like sex and all. But I am one of those talky feely kind of guy. ( and no I am not gay! lol) I am a musician and we tend to be on the emotional side.
But thanks for your kind words. By the way... I used to live in AZ... Phoinex... So how is the old hot state. I will never forget driving into town and seeing the bank sign flashing the time and temp... 1:10 and 115! At first I thought the time had jumped and then I saw 115 was the Temp... YIKES! But thanks again for writing to me and feel free to say hi anytime.

Phoenix Stone said:

Hi, don't know if it will help but here are some thoughts from something like the Other side. People who have been badly abused have a heard time feeling that adoration. One reason is that they need so much -- and they want it exactly like they saw it in their heads when they weren't getting it. Movie romance. And they can be very self-involved, as well as acutely sensitive to their own feelings and hurt, while insensitive to how they are hurting others. (Too busy feeling hurt themselves, as well as discounting their effect on others.) My guess is she wanted that adoration to somehow look different than what she got. And that she either mistook a lot of it as sexual overtures -- which don't count because that is seen as the other person wanting something From you, rather than seen as the other person adoring you and wanting to give you something -- or didn't even see what you saw as being adoration. For instance, my husband will do things like put gas in my car as a gesture of love. I Do get it now that typically we give what we want to get, rather than what the other person wants to get, for various reasons, such as that it feels unnatural.
You likely Didn't remind her of the person who molested her when she married you. It was only after you married that she made that connection. That is SO typical. It's a problem with intimacy thing. And a 'seeing the molestor everywhere' thing. She will likely have the same thing happen with her next spouse, too. Unless she picks someone who preferably looks the opposite. There is a lot of weirdness that goes into dealing with that stuff, and as she was unwilling to do therapy... she's not done yet in having it screw up her life.

I am SO sorry you got hurt by that mess and by a woman who is SO MESSED UP. She probably was trying to hurt you -- as she felt she was hurt by you! By your Not adoring her, in her mind.

I'm betting there were some things that went on with you, because of your mom's divorce and fighting that it would still be worthwhile for you to deal with. With friends and journaling, and/or therapy. You stayed with a woman who was very cold to you. Thus managing to do something very different from what you saw with your mom, but still not a good choice. Like you kinda picked the opposite, maybe? Picking the opposite isn't the same thing as free choice. It's still a form of being stuck.

It was SO unfair what happened to you. And she was wrong. YOU know she was. It sounds like saying you were invisible or all your love was nothing. It wasn't nothing. It existed and it was good for your kids to see someone who could love. Maybe think of it like she had a plate of glass between herself and love. She couldn't feel it the way she wanted to. And that didn't mean it wasnt there.

Reminds me of something from a movie called Adaptation, in which one character says how could you keep loving someone who was laughing at you, who treated you so poorly, who was unworthy of that love. Turns out the other guy knew all along and his answer -- if I can get it across right -- was that he loves her, and that No one has the right to destroy his love, even her.

Your love was there. It counted. It still counts. You count.

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Thank you so much for your words. I agree with you so much. Yes I did go to counseling after we were separated and going thru the divorce. I went to a divorce recovery program as well. So I have done all of that.. the journaling and all... and that was what this kind of was... but on line. You are right... this was her problem and even tho the love was there and she did not recieve it, doesn't mean it was not there. And your right, my kids have told me they know my love was there. Matter of fact I got an email from one of my girls who said how much she loved and said I was here hero. ( yea you bet I cried like a baby and I don't care what others think... ) It made my year! I have it and carry it with me all the time.
But thank you for your words and for your thoughts.
All of you have been a blessing and it was good therapy!
As we say down south.... Y'all done good!

Spenser,
You're only recently divorced. Wait a while, find a good woman that is willing to love you and recieve love from you. As they say, time heals all wounds.

For myself, I learned a few months back that my ex had a boyfriend. My response was quite a bit different from yours. I sorta shrugged my shoulders and felt pity for the guy. My ex was a cold fish both physically and mentally. And personally I'd not wish that on anyone. If she's changed, then congrats and mazeltov to them both.

For yourself you need to remind yourself that her personal life is no longer your concern unless it impacts badly in some way on your children. She's got a life and so do you. Dwelling on what went wrong, what you did wrong, what she did wrong etc, is not going to help you move on with your life. And that my friend is what you need to do.

She's getting married after knowing the guy for one month. She's a big girl capable of making her own decisions. Seems sorta silly to me, but I'm afraid you really don't have a say in her life anymore. What you need to do is make sure your kids are ok and move onward yourself.

I'm so sorry you've had to deal with all of this. I've never been married, much less divorced, but her words would hurt a lot of other people, so it isn't just you.

But what did I notice? She married you after 4 months, didn't she? And stated she didn't know why? I don't buy that she didn't know why. That seems far-fetched and a refusal to look at herself. But, here she is again, marrying a man after a very limited time of knowing him. How the hell does anyone know that a person is the one within one month?

Just my prediction, but I doubt this marriage will last either. Your ex sounds like a very unhappy woman, looking to others to provide her with happiness. I feel for both her and you, but somehow I think you will turn out to be the healthier one.

Good luck to you and congrats on the marriage of one of your kids!

Bobmi357 said:

Spenser,
You're only recently divorced. Wait a while, find a good woman that is willing to love you and recieve love from you. As they say, time heals all wounds.

For myself, I learned a few months back that my ex had a boyfriend. My response was quite a bit different from yours. I sorta shrugged my shoulders and felt pity for the guy. My ex was a cold fish both physically and mentally. And personally I'd not wish that on anyone. If she's changed, then congrats and mazeltov to them both.

For yourself you need to remind yourself that her personal life is no longer your concern unless it impacts badly in some way on your children. She's got a life and so do you. Dwelling on what went wrong, what you did wrong, what she did wrong etc, is not going to help you move on with your life. And that my friend is what you need to do.

She's getting married after knowing the guy for one month. She's a big girl capable of making her own decisions. Seems sorta silly to me, but I'm afraid you really don't have a say in her life anymore. What you need to do is make sure your kids are ok and move onward yourself.

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Thank you for your post but I think you have read more into what was said or not read it completely. For one we have been divorced for over 6 yrs and we were separated for 2 yrs before that. I don't care who she marries or what she does with her life. What I made a comment about and what this post was all about was how her comment to me and our marriage hurt. That is all. I have moved on with my life as I have stated and as I said I really don't care who she marrys or if she even marrys again.
So, again, the only reason for the post was her comment to me about our marriage and how she felt and that is what hurt. Nothing more. But thanks again for your words.

SexyChele said:

I'm so sorry you've had to deal with all of this. I've never been married, much less divorced, but her words would hurt a lot of other people, so it isn't just you.

But what did I notice? She married you after 4 months, didn't she? And stated she didn't know why? I don't buy that she didn't know why. That seems far-fetched and a refusal to look at herself. But, here she is again, marrying a man after a very limited time of knowing him. How the hell does anyone know that a person is the one within one month?

Just my prediction, but I doubt this marriage will last either. Your ex sounds like a very unhappy woman, looking to others to provide her with happiness. I feel for both her and you, but somehow I think you will turn out to be the healthier one.

Good luck to you and congrats on the marriage of one of your kids!

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I agree Sexy and thanks for your post. Yes I am of mixed feelings about the guy she is marrying but .. you know how it is.. no guy is going to be good enough for my little girl.. lol. Just kidding.. kind of... I am sure they will have a great wedding... thanks again.

Over 20 years is a long time. She didn't say you didn't mean anything to her, exactly, just that she somehow didn't get it that you meant something to her. And that she didn't know why she married you -- which is about her again, her motivation. Doesn't say a darn thing about you. She also said she never 'wanted you in that way' presumably sexually. That's horrible to stay married to someone one feels that way about. Still, it doesn't say you meant nothing to her, just not what you wanted to mean to her.

Some part of you is still connected, still hooked. Still trying to get that love back that you didn't get. Still trying to understand. It's really about her, not you. She won't have an answer for you. The question isn't 'why were you unloveable,' it's why didn't She? She doesn't know. And you didn't deserve to be lived with unloved. Or unloved in the way you wanted it. But you won't get it there. If you didn't feel so protective toward her, would you be angry? I'm angry at her on your behalf, even if she is messed up, even if she didn't know what she was doing and wasn't trying to mess you up.

Don't know what you need here. Wish I could help.

Phoenix Stone said:

Over 20 years is a long time. She didn't say you didn't mean anything to her, exactly, just that she somehow didn't get it that you meant something to her. And that she didn't know why she married you -- which is about her again, her motivation. Doesn't say a darn thing about you. She also said she never 'wanted you in that way' presumably sexually. That's horrible to stay married to someone one feels that way about. Still, it doesn't say you meant nothing to her, just not what you wanted to mean to her.

Some part of you is still connected, still hooked. Still trying to get that love back that you didn't get. Still trying to understand. It's really about her, not you. She won't have an answer for you. The question isn't 'why were you unloveable,' it's why didn't She? She doesn't know. And you didn't deserve to be lived with unloved. Or unloved in the way you wanted it. But you won't get it there. If you didn't feel so protective toward her, would you be angry? I'm angry at her on your behalf, even if she is messed up, even if she didn't know what she was doing and wasn't trying to mess you up.

Don't know what you need here. Wish I could help.

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I really don't need anything but needed to vent. And I thank you for your words. Yes you are right it is her and not me. Of course when I was married to her... led me to believe that it was me. But I know different now. I know that I am a loving and caring and giving man. I have also had other relationships since then. I am not hooked as you say I am. Yes we are connected because we have kids. I am not trying to get love from her because I never got it to begin with. Well, I did in the beginning but not at the end. She does have a lot of issues and problems and as it was stated in the thread, I don't think she will ever get healed until she has been in a lot of counseling. And you do not have to be angry for me, I had a lot of anger years ago and I have given that anger up for the most parts. But just like anyone who has ever been in a long relationship, even tho it ends, you will always be connected and every once and awhile those memories will still be with you.

I feel for you.

Spenser, I relate to much of your first post here. It sounds VERY familiar. My ex only wanted sex about twice a month. She busied herself with many other things that she wanted to do that had nothing to do with OUR relationship. And, things changed entirely after having our second child. Her original family was top priority, her AA family was second, the boys third, her friends forth, and there was no time left for me.
I understand how you still have feelings for her and may be upset seeing her still stuck in her self-destructive behaviour.
But, you have to let it go. You cannot change her now, and even if you can see she is making a mistake again, you need to take care of yourself. Say the serenity prayer and think about having the wisdom to know when to change things and when to leave them alone.

I know this is a little vague. I just want you to know it is normal to have those feelings toward her after 20 years, and it would be healthier for you to channel your thoughts in another direction that will help YOU!
Hope this helps some.
MF