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Old 01-01-2018, 12:46 AM   #1
Speedylinks2015
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Question Understand the wife's sex drive

We have been married for 9 years, known each other for about 10. While we were dating and trying to get pregnant, sex was great. Often and with oral too. After our third was born, she drops the bomb on me that the only reason she had sex with me was to get pregnant. Now she said she gets nothing out of sex and will do it to keep me happy because she knows I enjoy it. I've tried explaining to her that I'm past just wanting to get off and want her to enjoy it as well.

Many times she can't tell I've cum until I tell her and it's more of a "hurry up and get done" feeling when things are going on. She won't let me go down on her and now considers BJs disgusting. She will let me get her off and I always make sure to do it at least once before I get off.

Is there anything I can do to turn things around?
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Old 01-01-2018, 12:53 AM   #2
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First, she should see a doctor and rule out medical issues. If her hormones are fine, itís psychological and therapy may help. Asexuality is real but not that common.

The truth is sheís links Ďtouched outí from kids and exhausted.

If she is not interested in repairing this aspect, itís unfortunate but you could ask about an open marriage.
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Old 01-01-2018, 12:57 AM   #3
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First, she should see a doctor and rule out medical issues. If her hormones are fine, itís psychological and therapy may help. Asexuality is real but not that common.

The truth is sheís links Ďtouched outí from kids and exhausted.

If she is not interested in repairing this aspect, itís unfortunate but you could ask about an open marriage.
Hormones are fine. We have been going to counseling specializing in sex therapy and no progress. She says that she used to have sex before me (20 partners) to increase her self esteem since she was a bigger girl. Now that she's lost almost 90 pounds (gastric sleeve) she says her self confidence has increased and she doesn't need to have sex anymore to feel good about herself.

I know she is exhausted from the kids....however, she decided to go back to work to have "her money". She is constantly volunteering for things, etc....

Like I said, she will orgasm usually multiple times. However when I ask if she enjoyed it and if we can do a certain thing again, she will say "we have been over this before"....
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Old 01-01-2018, 02:51 AM   #4
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Might there be some aspects of your life together, some aspects of your pattern of behaviour, which have eroded her sexual attraction to you?
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Old 01-01-2018, 03:41 AM   #5
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There are days when going back to work would be a welcome break from wrangling our small children. Love them endlessly of course, but the mental and physical exhaustion is all-consuming at times. Donít think that work and volunteer are her outlets for excess energy. They may be her only sanctioned routes of release and escape right now.

I suspect more issues on her end. Marriages often suffer during those intense years of raising small kids. I feel alone quite a lot myself. If I didnít have high drive, I could see myself struggling to be sexual with my husband. Itís hard when you feel pulled in all directions by so many needs and alienated and missing the man who once cherished you.

Iím clearly inserting too much of my marriage issues into yours. But take this away from it: Analyze unforgivingly how your behavior towards her has changed. I guarantee that sex didnít just dry up in her mind. Little by little youíve both slipped away from each other. Now youíre paying attention to it because it affects an aspect of life that you highly prize. On her end, there could be a wife working a job and volunteering her time to find a momentís peace and to stave off the sad longing for the man she used to know.
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Old 01-01-2018, 10:51 PM   #6
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There are days when going back to work would be a welcome break from wrangling our small children. Love them endlessly of course, but the mental and physical exhaustion is all-consuming at times. Donít think that work and volunteer are her outlets for excess energy. They may be her only sanctioned routes of release and escape right now.

I suspect more issues on her end. Marriages often suffer during those intense years of raising small kids. I feel alone quite a lot myself. If I didnít have high drive, I could see myself struggling to be sexual with my husband. Itís hard when you feel pulled in all directions by so many needs and alienated and missing the man who once cherished you.

Iím clearly inserting too much of my marriage issues into yours. But take this away from it: Analyze unforgivingly how your behavior towards her has changed. I guarantee that sex didnít just dry up in her mind. Little by little youíve both slipped away from each other. Now youíre paying attention to it because it affects an aspect of life that you highly prize. On her end, there could be a wife working a job and volunteering her time to find a momentís peace and to stave off the sad longing for the man she used to know.
I know part of her reason for going back to work was to get out of the house. I got frustrated when she wanted "her" money because I've never denied her something because of money, except maybe for a huge vacation. If there was something big that needed to happen, we worked it out.

I've always desired her and she will admit that she knows that. She won't say that she desires me either. She is always up for cuddling though. I asked her what the difference was and she said with cuddling there are no expectations......
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Old 01-02-2018, 07:18 AM   #7
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I am going to break up your post into four sections as there are four examples and indications of where you may be not helping the situation.

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Originally Posted by Speedylinks2015 View Post
I got frustrated when she wanted "her" money because I've never denied her something because of money, except maybe for a huge vacation.
Your words "I got frustrated" and that is a flag right there. Your frustrations could imply impositions. Do you like someone trying to influence how you think?

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Originally Posted by Speedylinks2015 View Post
If there was something big that needed to happen, we worked it out.
Did "we" work it out or did you, based on the control you had over the finances?

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Originally Posted by Speedylinks2015 View Post
I've always desired her and she will admit that she knows that. She won't say that she desires me either.
In you reaching out to her how often do you push the "but I desire you..." as a way to bridge the divide? If so that can also come across as imposing, because if you do is she then expected to match you in response? If she does not, is it possible she is picking up more indications of frustration from you?

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Originally Posted by Speedylinks2015 View Post
She is always up for cuddling though. I asked her what the difference was and she said with cuddling there are no expectations......
I will be blunt "I asked her what the difference was" would be about the worst possible statement/question you could say. I guarantee she would have taken it as a statement and not a question. Another example of you imposing your frustrations on her. You knew the answer to that statement before you made it. Certainly would not have made your wife feel great upon hearing it.

Think carefully through what I have written. You can either take affront for my suggestion of putting it on your shoulders or you could look very closely how your attitudes may be perceived as controlling and how this may impact on your wife's attraction toward you.

You may believe you are the perfect husband, provider and protector of the family but if that comes at a cost of your wife feeling her own life choices are being imposed upon by your desire for control then your relationship is going to take a dive.

I am not implying you are a bad person or that your heart is not genuine, but it is possible in order to help your situation you may need to step back. Encourage and support your wife in her choices such as going back to work. Let her know she is most definitely an equal part of the relationship and family decision process. Let her know you will respect her wishes and desires simply because they are hers to have and not to be shaped by your personal standards, goals or frustrations.

How often do you have the house spotless, the kids organised, meal ready and a glass of wine waiting for your wife when she gets home from work? This without any expectation than you are providing her a space to relax and do whatever she chooses. Maybe it would provide her a chance to read a book, watch a tv show uninterrupted, go to bed early. It really does not matter what she may choose for her own time, what matters is that you have thought enough of her to offer that opportunity.

How often have you organised a romantic night? The kids off with the grandparents, the house spotless and romantic setting in place, go out for a meal, show, go dancing - somewhere you know will bring laughter and smiles to her face. Not with the expectation that she will put out for you but purely displaying how much you love her.

Ask her from time to time "what can I do to make your life better today?". She will need to feel comfortable you are not negotiating for anything, you just want to gift joy toward her.

Last edited by NightL : 01-02-2018 at 07:22 AM.
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Old 01-02-2018, 05:45 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by NightL View Post
I am going to break up your post into four sections as there are four examples and indications of where you may be not helping the situation.

Your words "I got frustrated" and that is a flag right there. Your frustrations could imply impositions. Do you like someone trying to influence how you think?

I've tried explaining it in counseling explaining that it was a pride thing to me that I was able to support my family of 5 on my salary.


Did "we" work it out or did you, based on the control you had over the finances?

We would sit down and talk about things and figure a game plan. She also freely admitted that I was better with finances and let me have control of them.

In you reaching out to her how often do you push the "but I desire you..." as a way to bridge the divide? If so that can also come across as imposing, because if you do is she then expected to match you in response? If she does not, is it possible she is picking up more indications of frustration from you?

I've realized that her desire will never be as strong as mine.
I will also admit there are times that I let my frustration show. This is mainly because she was all over me when it came to having sex to get pregnant.
She has now used the words that "sex has no purpose now" and that she could probably go the rest of her life without sex.


I will be blunt "I asked her what the difference was" would be about the worst possible statement/question you could say. I guarantee she would have taken it as a statement and not a question. Another example of you imposing your frustrations on her. You knew the answer to that statement before you made it. Certainly would not have made your wife feel great upon hearing it.

I was trying to compare the two because she is always wanting to snuggle and pretty much lay on top of me in bed. I was trying to understand why touching her then was OK, but not in a sexual manner. Mind you, I've told her before that it does not always have to be the actual insertion of sex to mean something to me.

Think carefully through what I have written. You can either take affront for my suggestion of putting it on your shoulders or you could look very closely how your attitudes may be perceived as controlling and how this may impact on your wife's attraction toward you.

I will admit that I have been told about the controlling attitude before. It happened when I tried to control her credit card spending since it was not the first time that she had run up the balance. Me trying to control that was perceived as too "dad like" and therefore made me not attractive to her.

You may believe you are the perfect husband, provider and protector of the family but if that comes at a cost of your wife feeling her own life choices are being imposed upon by your desire for control then your relationship is going to take a dive.

I am not implying you are a bad person or that your heart is not genuine, but it is possible in order to help your situation you may need to step back. Encourage and support your wife in her choices such as going back to work. Let her know she is most definitely an equal part of the relationship and family decision process. Let her know you will respect her wishes and desires simply because they are hers to have and not to be shaped by your personal standards, goals or frustrations.

How often do you have the house spotless, the kids organised, meal ready and a glass of wine waiting for your wife when she gets home from work? This without any expectation than you are providing her a space to relax and do whatever she chooses. Maybe it would provide her a chance to read a book, watch a tv show uninterrupted, go to bed early. It really does not matter what she may choose for her own time, what matters is that you have thought enough of her to offer that opportunity.

I work out of town so it is hard to do things for her during the week. I try to do as much as I can when I am home. She only does laundry during the week if she absolutely has to. I usually do that on the weekends,
I will wash and she folds them. There have been plenty of times I have come home to a sink overflowing with dishes, I know it's been a long week so I just load the dishwasher and then wash what needs it by hand.


How often have you organised a romantic night? The kids off with the grandparents, the house spotless and romantic setting in place, go out for a meal, show, go dancing - somewhere you know will bring laughter and smiles to her face. Not with the expectation that she will put out for you but purely displaying how much you love her.

This is one that I will admit I'm slacking on. I've been trying to give her more time with her friends and to do other things without the kids.
I recently sent her and a friend on a weekend vacation down south, I covered car, hotel, and flight for her. She offered to pay me somehow for using my points, I told her that there was no need for that. I told her that I just wanted her to go and have a good time.


Ask her from time to time "what can I do to make your life better today?". She will need to feel comfortable you are not negotiating for anything, you just want to gift joy toward her.
I'll admit that this is the hardest one for me. I feel I can only give so much before you're either exhausted or just give up because you see nothing in return. I never even get something as small as a note saying "thanks for all that you do".
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Old 01-02-2018, 05:52 PM   #9
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Old 01-03-2018, 03:12 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedylinks2015 View Post
I'll admit that this is the hardest one for me. I feel I can only give so much before you're either exhausted or just give up because you see nothing in return. I never even get something as small as a note saying "thanks for all that you do".
continuing the discussion

I have a sense that while you say "but we are seeing a sex therapist/counsellor" you are struggling with the suggestions offered? One reason I make that statement is that you have turned to an online forum to seek answers beyond a highly trained person in the area. For the country I live in I am aware that to be a sex therapist requires solid qualifications in the general counselling area as well. The sex therapy is like a specialist qualification above and beyond counselling qualifications, which can be as extensive or more in study and time to acquire. Point being most sex therapists are highly trained in relationship counselling. By asking your questions here may indicate you are feeling you are making no headway with the therapist. Why?

From the brief insight through a few posts I think it fantastic that you are seeing a sex therapist. When I have responded to similar posts as you have written that would often be my very first suggestion. I am an observant person offering an opinion, but I would never consider myself to have the breadth of knowledge and skills someone who has taken six years or a lot more to train in the area of counselling specialising in sex therapy. You should wholeheartedly trust the therapist. Give it a go, what have you got to lose, your marriage, your family and perhaps your children witness the breakdown of your relationship? Children sometimes can be left with emotional and mental life time scars for witnessing the deterioration of parents' relationship if the breakup is handled poorly. It is that important, your willingness to actually just listen can have a tremendous impact on the lives of many, your family.

If you are going to the therapy sessions with "I want sex and she needs convincing to want it and like it so I can have it" you will be divorced in no time. If you feel your pride is at stake every time a suggestion is made by the therapist on how you may be contributing to the problem then you will be divorced in no time.

You appear to be genuinely reaching out so I will offer more of my untrained opinion on some of your responses that may give you some understanding why I wrote the above paragraphs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedylinks2015 View Post
it was a pride thing to me that I was able to support my family of 5 on my salary
Have you ever thought that being looked after/taken care of may eventually feel demeaning for your wife? Yup - having children will probably be the most rewarding, yet exhausting and frustrating time of your whole life. If you felt stressed during this time of juggling finances, lack of sleep, balancing the load of family responsibilities you just may need to give consideration to the fact your wife was on the front line of child birth, feeding, nappies, fevers, snotty noses, bumps and bruises 24 hours a day, with someone perhaps placing their values on how well she was attending to that and all the while placing her own life, dreams and aspirations on hold. Every financial decision had to be vetted through your "what is best for the family" control.

Maybe your wife is silently screaming "I am exhausted, I am tired of this responsibility, I want a life again, I want control over my destiny, I want "me" back again".

Try to imagine "oh, he wants sex again and he just does not get it that it is the farthest thing from my mind" happening over and over and over again. If your wife is indeed screaming "I want a life again" she may have no control over her lack of interest or desire for sex but she does have control over saying "I don't want it, I don't enjoy it, I would be content never to have it again" and the more you push the more you hear it. Perhaps you should stop pushing and start listening. Really listen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedylinks2015 View Post
She also freely admitted that I was better with finances and let me have control of them
Have you considered that was actually "I give up, you are just going to have your way anyway". Maybe she was just too exhausted to give a damn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedylinks2015 View Post
I've realized that her desire will never be as strong as mine.
I will also admit there are times that I let my frustration show. This is mainly because she was all over me when it came to having sex to get pregnant.
She has now used the words that "sex has no purpose now" and that she could probably go the rest of her life without sex.
Put it this way - she is certainly standing up to you at the moment and displaying monumental strength. This is finally one situation she has control over and she is wielding it with all her might and obviously prepared to sacrifice possibly a marriage over the issue. She is telling you "You are not listening to me!".


Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedylinks2015 View Post
I was trying to compare the two because she is always wanting to snuggle and pretty much lay on top of me in bed. I was trying to understand why touching her then was OK, but not in a sexual manner. Mind you, I've told her before that it does not always have to be the actual insertion of sex to mean something to me.
You are pushing it again... and you risk losing the cuddles as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedylinks2015 View Post
Me trying to control that was perceived as too "dad like" and therefore made me not attractive to her
You so need to lay yourself totally open over this situation. Through the guidance of a therapy session I would suggest you ask your wife to open up on all the ways she finds you controlling. I have a feeling this is something that has occurred in many subtle ways over the years, especially since the children came along. Just be willing to listen, take everything on board and leave your pride well away from this. Don't criticise or argue against any comment or reply. Listen listen listen then muster up all your powers to understand why the comments are being made. Even if you feel something is unjust, try to imagine why your wife feels that way. Her feelings are very real to her. State that you want your wife's thoughts to flow freely and you are not going to respond unless directly asked to do so. Let the therapist and your wife know you are intent on just listening without any rebuttal and prove that to them. With a little bit of trust gained then maybe more will flow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedylinks2015 View Post
I work out of town so it is hard to do things for her during the week. I try to do as much as I can when I am home. She only does laundry during the week if she absolutely has to. I usually do that on the weekends,
I will wash and she folds them. There have been plenty of times I have come home to a sink overflowing with dishes, I know it's been a long week so I just load the dishwasher and then wash what needs it by hand.
You talk of these things as if they are negotiating terms. Just get stuck in and do them. If you are working out of town for the week and your wife has employment now as well - do the math - she is doing by far the majority of hands on with the kids and working on top of that - ha and don't even contemplate "well she does not have to work", that is her sanity. Regardless of actual $ amount income, right now she is contributing far more to your family than you are. Respect that and don't let your pride get in the way of acknowledging that fact. She is actually doing way more than you.

So now that household income is not a stress factor as it was, maybe you could consider hiring a house keeper for a number of hours per week. This could ease the situation immensely. After all the years your wife has put in on parenting, especially since you work away from home during the week she probably deserves it.

So now that household income is not a stress factor as it was, maybe you could consider getting a job closer to home where you come home every night. "Oh, but the money" is probably killing your marriage. When your wife and mother of your children needs you the most you are simply not there.

Curious, did your own mother have a career over and above being a mother and looking after home life? Are you imposing values that are not of your time of now being a parent, husband?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedylinks2015 View Post
I'll admit that this is the hardest one for me. I feel I can only give so much before you're either exhausted or just give up because you see nothing in return. I never even get something as small as a note saying "thanks for all that you do".
Ah - right now you are exhausted because your approach is just not working. You have expressed your desire for her to come around to your terms and jolly well like it while she is attending to it. Say goodbye to your marriage and watch the disintegration of your family beyond what has already happened.

How does "thanks for all that you do" really stack up to what your wife actually does? Maybe your wife could work away from home all week and you stay and look after the kids while trying to maintain a life and sanity for yourself as well.

Oh, and remember the best sex is about giving and how it is received. Anything else may as well be called masturbation even if it involves another person. To be very good at giving, you have to be very good at listening.

From what I have read of your posts on this I believe you need to be willing to throw all your ideas of what a relationship should be out the window and start on a totally new and learning approach. Tell your wife and counsellor you are willing to do this, be strong and a man enough to ask for guidance and listen listen listen then prove to both of them in actions. What have you got to lose...?

___________________________________
I was in the company of friends recently, their marriage fell apart 25 years ago while their children were very young. To this day he is heartbroken. She made the following comment to him "I'll tell you why our marriage fell apart, you just didn't see me. I was standing before your very eyes and you just did not see me".

Now he, similar to you, had been working two jobs ticking off all the boxes of what he thought correct as a provider and a husband. The extra employment hours provided an income for the house ownership, renovations, and the needs of a growing family. He was devoted to his wife and his children yet she said after all these years (and probably many times leading up to) "you just did not see me, who I was".

I was saddened on witnessing this exchange as I immediately thought how a lack of simple communication was still playing out over 25 years later.

She claimed to have expressed herself and that he did not listen. He responded "I thought I was doing the right thing, I was so busy doing that I didn't see".

Speedylinks2015, to "understand the wife's sex drive" you both need to learn how to communicate again or even start in way both of you have never tried before. Trust your counsellor and listen with the view to understand not to defend and accuse.

Last edited by NightL : 01-03-2018 at 03:30 AM.
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Old 01-03-2018, 03:38 AM   #11
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Having children can change a woman's hormones in a big, BIG way. I have lots of friends who are in sexless, or near sexless marriages and feel entirely guilty/responsible for it.

I have other friends who have had kids who are secret sluts (like me) and others who totally cheat on their husbands because their libidos have gone in the other direction.

Simon's question is valid. But so are many of the other responses you've received so far. Marriage, sex and children is a very complicated soup. Seeking professional advice is a good idea, but, my two cents from talking with many who have gone that route (more women than men in my experience so please take that into consideration) is that there is no built-in incentive for therapists to help you get well.

Now, in my experience, most therapists I've worked with in my life have been motivated by the desire to help and heal, but I have definitely encountered and heard of many situations where the therapist(s) can and are part of the ongoing problem.

imho it all boils down to communication. What do you want? What does she want? Where do those wants intersect? The greatest myth out there is that men are hornier than women (after 30 at least lol). Talk with her, not to her and maybe she'll talk with you too.

If she truly is like many women and has sort of gone asexual after having children, talk with her about your needs, ask if there are any fantasies she might like to explore (don't expect an answer to that one right away - it might take a month or even three!) and if there are, offer to help her explore them even if you're shocked by them. Chances are, your support will mean more to her than actually going thru with some of them.

Anyway, good luck and best wishes and remember to keep your lines of communication open. Do NOT shut down because you think that she has!

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Old 01-03-2018, 04:32 AM   #12
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We have been married for 9 years, known each other for about 10. While we were dating and trying to get pregnant, sex was great. Often and with oral too. After our third was born, she drops the bomb on me that the only reason she had sex with me was to get pregnant. Now she said she gets nothing out of sex and will do it to keep me happy because she knows I enjoy it. I've tried explaining to her that I'm past just wanting to get off and want her to enjoy it as well.

Many times she can't tell I've cum until I tell her and it's more of a "hurry up and get done" feeling when things are going on. She won't let me go down on her and now considers BJs disgusting. She will let me get her off and I always make sure to do it at least once before I get off.

Is there anything I can do to turn things around?
Let me get something out of the way. NightL is insinuating for you to shoulder this issue and that its YOU that needs to do this, YOU that needs to do that. No, fuck that, if the other person isn't putting their best foot forward, and are rather putting that foot away from you, creating distance? You need to have an open 1 on 1 with her and ask just what exactly shes looking for in her future. I say "her" future because it seems that whatever shes doing is dissociating herself from you (ie:the family) in a variety of ways (via earning her own money, volunteering, taking time to deliberately avoid being at home).

Also, you may need to come to terms with the idea that whatever this relationship between you and your wife has devolved into, may end out breaking the marriage (even post therapy).

You should never, under any circumstances, stay with someone if you aren't satisfied with the way things are going, this can cause future damage to your mental well-being. Why should you always have to accomodate someone else? This isn't a matter of "being a man" or how "you're expected to be strong" nonsense. It really grinds my gears when people try to give good advice while they corner you and force the captains hat and expect you to "deal with it".

NightL has also used shaming language, saying that she does more and you do less, which couldn't be further away from the truth. Being a mother is hard work, but so is keeping the fridge full of food, the power and water on, buying clothes when needed, paying for repairs if something breaks. I'd be curious to know what NightL's politics are, because I get an incredibly obvious impression that they have feminist values mixed in, but that's either here nor there. It's incredibly counter-productive arguing "who does more than the other", because both roles are integral to a successful family. Compromising is important, but not to the point where you sacrifice everything you believe in so that the other person can have their way. Don't let anyone discredit what you do for your family, this includes working your job.

Hiring a maid or caretaker is counter productive, especially to supplement it for free time that your wife spends wherever else. Building wealth to sustain 3 kids (if you plan on helping them develop a future in college or leave them something when you pass on, etc) is quite the math game as well. I also disagree with changing jobs so that you can spend more time with your wife, where will it end? Working closer? Working less? Taking more responsibilities at home, while she goes off and does her own thing? Lol its unbelievable, this kind of attitude is childlike. She needs to get a grip, she's not in her early 20's anymore, she's an adult and should conduct herself like one. If she wanted more of this "freedom" she probably shouldn't have had the inclination to have kids.

My opinion is to give her tough love, you tell her if she wants to spend all that time away and not work on the marriage/family? Give her the boot and take the matters to courts with either divorce/separation and work towards custody. If she craves power and freedom all that much, give her exactly what she wants. As destructive as it sounds, its not any better than living out the rest of your days unhappy, having sex with an uninterested partner who would rather be sightseeing in spain. There was a mention of staying together for the kids, but your personal life with your wife will trickle into your kids eventually, they aren't stupid, they will observe how you both interact and could adopt just as damaging of experiences as if you were to divorce, the potential means have the same potential ends.

You're obviously too deep to clean slate, you should probably prepare your financial situation for possible divorce/paying alimony, because once those paper are served (whether by you or her), your finances will be in for an absolutely rude awakening. Maybe move a bit of money into one of your parents ghost savings account or lock money into a private account for your children, you need to make sure you have a plan B (no pun intended *cough* pregnancy), something you can rely on if turmoil hits. Nobody is safe, the danger of losing your hard work is always a possibility, and the courts will show very little mercy, if at all.

My uncle experienced something similar to your situation, except his wife did travel alone after the kids grew up after 18, met someone in a foreign country and demanded a divorce, he lost a massive chunk from his pension, and 10 years of 1/2 his annual salary as alimony, his kids now treat him like a cash cow, pretty horrendous behavior.

I personally disagree with 80% of what NightL has typed, it is what it is. Sometimes even therapy cant save a damaged relationship, not all wounds heal properly.

I dont have a degree, but a hobby of mine is reading up on psychology and studying human behavior for fun. In no way should you accept ANY advice on here as professional or medically accurate, just a disclaimer ofc.
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Old 01-03-2018, 04:42 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by LizVegas79 View Post
there is no built-in incentive for therapists to help you get well
From the actual therapists I know who work in the area, and I know several, the path to that training was like a calling. They are exceedingly passionate about their profession and for their desire of continual study and gaining knowledge.

Their professional reputations are at stake, of course they have an incentive. I personally view them as relationship and romance junkies as they just wish the very best happiness and outcomes for their clients for which they have trained extensively to help assist.

I know these people through friendships and business association and they are most certainly not "lets string this one out for the next overseas holiday" - never ever!

I would hate for someone to dismiss the idea of seeking therapy based on a comment like that. I do strongly suggest that research into a good fit is as sound as it would be for finding a new mechanic or GP. Of course there has to be a willingness to change and learn otherwise it is pointless in attending. A therapist/client relationship that has worked for one couple maybe not the right fit for another. People get 2nd opinions on health matters all the time, if someone is not happy with a therapist/counsellor they should do some research and try another if they wish to continue on that path of assistance.
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Old 01-03-2018, 04:49 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by NightL View Post
From the actual therapists I know who work in the area, and I know several, the path to that training was like a calling. They are exceedingly passionate about their profession and for their desire of continual study and gaining knowledge.

Their professional reputations are at stake, of course they have an incentive. I personally view them as relationship and romance junkies as they just wish the very best happiness and outcomes for their clients for which they have trained extensively to help assist.

I know these people through friendships and business association and they are most certainly not "lets string this one out for the next overseas holiday" - never ever!

I would hate for someone to dismiss the idea of seeking therapy based on a comment like that. I do strongly suggest that research into a good fit is as sound as it would be for finding a new mechanic or GP. Of course there has to be a willingness to change and learn otherwise it is pointless in attending. A therapist/client relationship that has worked for one couple maybe not the right fit for another. People get 2nd opinions on health matters all the time, if someone is not happy with a therapist/counsellor they should do some research and try another if they wish to continue on that path of assistance.
Interesting, I could combat that with sex therapists I know personally that blatantly laugh about how stupid some people are that buy common sense as "therapy". Therapy is great to administer, when the person administering it is taking the job seriously. There are bad eggs in pretty much every job industry, psychology isn't void of them. Its similar to how lawyers could care less about solving your legal problems, money is the leading motivator.
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Old 01-03-2018, 04:56 AM   #15
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I'd be curious to know what NightL's politics are, because I get an incredibly obvious impression that they have feminist values mixed in
so you are suggesting "Hey Bitch, pack the fucking fridge and get me a beer while you are at it. Now lay down while I fuck you and display some of that gratitude!"?

Wow, there is a recipe for domestic violence... especially when the "little lady" doesn't acquiesce.
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Old 01-03-2018, 05:11 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by NightL View Post
From the actual therapists I know who work in the area, and I know several, the path to that training was like a calling. They are exceedingly passionate about their profession and for their desire of continual study and gaining knowledge.

Their professional reputations are at stake, of course they have an incentive. I personally view them as relationship and romance junkies as they just wish the very best happiness and outcomes for their clients for which they have trained extensively to help assist.

I know these people through friendships and business association and they are most certainly not "lets string this one out for the next overseas holiday" - never ever!

I would hate for someone to dismiss the idea of seeking therapy based on a comment like that. I do strongly suggest that research into a good fit is as sound as it would be for finding a new mechanic or GP. Of course there has to be a willingness to change and learn otherwise it is pointless in attending. A therapist/client relationship that has worked for one couple maybe not the right fit for another. People get 2nd opinions on health matters all the time, if someone is not happy with a therapist/counsellor they should do some research and try another if they wish to continue on that path of assistance.
I've known (and had) a few therapists too. I agree with you to a point. Many are indeed passionate about their work and truly did get into therapy to help people rather than just make money.

Many, but not all.

That's all I was really saying. Seek advice and if that advice isn't working for you, seek other advice.

In my experience, advice is like boners, it comes in all shapes and sizes and is available pretty much everywhere you look.

What is often more important than the advice (or the boner) is the receptiveness to it (much like his wife's receptiveness to his boner).

Wow, I just sort of blew my own mind. Maybe I should become a therapist

(I was a bartender for seven years - that's kind of like getting PhD in psychology, right?)
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Old 01-03-2018, 05:16 AM   #17
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so you are suggesting "Hey Bitch, pack the fucking fridge and get me a beer while you are at it. Now lay down while I fuck you and display some of that gratitude!"?

Wow, there is a recipe for domestic violence... especially when the "little lady" doesn't acquiesce.
Ouh, I love me a good strawman.

It doesn't surprise me that you're disingenuous about representing what I suggested, especially since I typed it further along in my post, but forget facts or telling the truth, this is the internet after all.

She openly admitted to having sex just for kids, this means it was never about the mutual engagement of pleasure, but a means to her own end, and now that she has accomplished whatever she planned to do, the natural step was to just start doing w/e she wants.

People should take pride in knowing that following your advice is the perfect recipe for financial ruin, let us all hand over the buying power to the mothers in the home and see what happens
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Old 01-03-2018, 03:29 PM   #18
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So I'll go ahead and answer some questions in this:

Reasons why I took over the finances (at least the essentials to live, except groceries)

- She has $160,000 in student loans for a bachelor's and master's degree.
- She lied to me before about why she kept on needing money and it took me threatening to not send her and the kids on vacation for her to come clean that her credit card balance was almost $3,000.
- She then used inheritance money to pay off that card, but wait.....it's back up to over $3,000 again. For what you ask? Times when I was working or didn't feel like going to see her family for the weekend. She didn't have the money for gas or food to go, so she would put it on the card.
- She takes all her mileage money and just uses it for whatever she wants, doesn't save any for vehicle repairs.

We have been going to the therapist for close to a year. The therapist even says she can't figure her out. She had supposedly been with twenty guys before me, but only did it to increase her self confidence. Now that she has lost a decent amount of weight and has self confidence now, she says she doesn't need the sex. Our therapist is really wanting to help her, she has even come and said that low desire was the demise of her marriage as well. Except her situation was the reverse of ours. She says my wife will not "budge" about giving her more info as to why she is so against sex....

I'm not asking her for a ticker tape parade when I get home, but at least a "glad you are home, I've missed you" would be nice. It's almost more of a hassle when I get home. I'm not discounting how hard her job is by any means, but some credit for mine would be nice. I travel almost every week and have to work outside 90% of the time. A few weeks ago I was working outside when it was close to 0 with the windchill. My flight was at 7:30 in the morning (leave at 4 AM) Tuesday and didn't get home until around 10 PM on Thursday. Other weeks it is a full week.

I don't think it is much to ask to be with a person that enjoys sex. I've mentioned multiple times that it's not about getting off to me. If that's what it was about, I would wait until everyone is sleeping and go take care of business or do it in the shower. I want her to feel like it is a time where we can shut everything else out and focus just on us being together and feeling good.

I am not struggling with the suggestions from the counselor. She has said that we need to compromise.....done. I'm willing to do it, why is it ok for her to just say this is how it is?
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Old 01-03-2018, 03:34 PM   #19
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We have been married for 9 years, known each other for about 10. While we were dating and trying to get pregnant, sex was great. Often and with oral too. After our third was born, she drops the bomb on me that the only reason she had sex with me was to get pregnant. Now she said she gets nothing out of sex and will do it to keep me happy because she knows I enjoy it. I've tried explaining to her that I'm past just wanting to get off and want her to enjoy it as well.

Many times she can't tell I've cum until I tell her and it's more of a "hurry up and get done" feeling when things are going on. She won't let me go down on her and now considers BJs disgusting. She will let me get her off and I always make sure to do it at least once before I get off.

Is there anything I can do to turn things around?
Same here. Started a thread and there are a lot of people in the same boat and some interesting thoughts and ideas on it. Check it out
http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=1399669
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Old 01-04-2018, 05:38 AM   #20
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why is it ok for her to just say this is how it is?
Actually it is ok for her to say that and it is also ok for you to not like the situation.

If it has been a year seeing a therapist without acknowledgement that it is a situation she wants to change, or indeed sees an issue with, then you have to decide how long you can be patient.

To be honest, stay right away from "but she had twenty guys". This was not an issue when you fell in love with her and it only makes you appear to be using it as leverage now. Not cool. If she had 2 partners prior or twenty makes zero difference to the situation you are in now. The more you leverage issues that you deem negative (or she thinks you deem negative) the higher the barrier may go. Maybe the self esteem issues are still solidly in place. The debt cycle could be an indication of that. Perhaps she is feeling that she is letting you and the children down. Have you considered or are you having sessions individually? Maybe more productive for self esteem issues be addressed without you present, once acknowledged then joint strategies can be developed.

The question you should ask clearly is "are you willing to try?" State you want a yes or no answer. If "yes" then you have something to work with, if it is "no" you can ask why. You can ask "would you like to enjoy sex?" and "what do you want as an outcome?" I would suggest asking those questions in the presence of the therapist and perhaps talk them through on your own with the therapist first on how best they can be delivered. Ultimately you have to make decisions based on the answers to those questions.

Why did she originally agree to attend the counselling sessions? Ask her if she still feels the same about attending.

You can't force, coerce, or bribe for change on someone unwilling to try - don't go down that path. You do realise that if she is not feeling loved by you (not saying you don't) and only seeing pressure you are unlikely to get praise back.

In your words here you are displaying there is negativity being directed from both of you toward each other. Compromise implies reluctance to me, so you both need to and want to pull those negative barriers down completely before you can start to heal.

Last edited by NightL : 01-04-2018 at 05:47 AM.
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Old 01-04-2018, 02:23 PM   #21
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More info....

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Actually it is ok for her to say that and it is also ok for you to not like the situation.

If it has been a year seeing a therapist without acknowledgement that it is a situation she wants to change, or indeed sees an issue with, then you have to decide how long you can be patient.

She acknowledges something is wrong, she just has no desire to change it. Like I said before, she sees no need for it now, it doesn't have a purpose.

To be honest, stay right away from "but she had twenty guys". This was not an issue when you fell in love with her and it only makes you appear to be using it as leverage now. Not cool. If she had 2 partners prior or twenty makes zero difference to the situation you are in now. The more you leverage issues that you deem negative (or she thinks you deem negative) the higher the barrier may go. Maybe the self esteem issues are still solidly in place. The debt cycle could be an indication of that. Perhaps she is feeling that she is letting you and the children down. Have you considered or are you having sessions individually? Maybe more productive for self esteem issues be addressed without you present, once acknowledged then joint strategies can be developed.

I didn't know about the 20 guys before marriage, it frustrates me now because it makes me feel like since she's found a decent guy and got what she wanted she doesn't need sex anymore. Not hard to see how being with 20 guys before me plays into that.

How does the debt cycle prove that self esteem issues are still in place?

I'm attending personal sessions now to help deal with my mental health diagnosis, I have also had some individual sessions with our counselor.


The question you should ask clearly is "are you willing to try?" State you want a yes or no answer. If "yes" then you have something to work with, if it is "no" you can ask why. You can ask "would you like to enjoy sex?" and "what do you want as an outcome?" I would suggest asking those questions in the presence of the therapist and perhaps talk them through on your own with the therapist first on how best they can be delivered. Ultimately you have to make decisions based on the answers to those questions.

Her main phrase is that she has no desire for sex, it is not a priority. She has said that she will have sex to keep me happy, but she doesn't desire it or see a need for it like I do.

Why did she originally agree to attend the counselling sessions? Ask her if she still feels the same about attending.

We had been going to couples counseling before, but we both weren't too keen on the counselor. We both knew that sex was an issue,
so we decided to see a sex therapist. Her main question to me before switching was "if nothing changes by going here, will you be ok with that?"
That was probably one of the lowest points in my life.


You can't force, coerce, or bribe for change on someone unwilling to try - don't go down that path. You do realise that if she is not feeling loved by you (not saying you don't) and only seeing pressure you are unlikely to get praise back.

In your words here you are displaying there is negativity being directed from both of you toward each other. Compromise implies reluctance to me, so you both need to and want to pull those negative barriers down completely before you can start to heal.
See answers above....
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Old 01-14-2018, 10:36 AM   #22
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Just as an update, I've pretty much been told that this is how it will be and I need to be happy that she's giving me anything at all......lots to think about from here on out.
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Old 01-14-2018, 07:40 PM   #23
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Based on personal experience...

1. Prepare to cut your losses. Especially financially.

2. Watch your back; you may get sandbagged.
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