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Old 10-12-2013, 04:13 PM   #1
Dylan_Anderson
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Have I been Friend-zoned?

I wanted some advise on a situation as I'm getting some mixed signals and thought some objective views might be helpful.

I'm male and interested in a girl at work. It's potentially messy because we work together and I'm her manager. Also there's a ten year age gap (I'm 28 and she's 18). But I guess the heart wants what it wants even if it is a bad idea.

Anyway, we've become fairly close and talking outside of work via text message and had a few open conversations via text while we were both drunk and our guards were down. Every time the conversation turns to sex and it's nearly always her that initiates this. She's very open and quick to volunteer some very intimate things about her (what she's into, fetishes, turn ons etc.) and the talk always comes across as quite flirty with what I thought were hints.

While at work she doesn't show any interest but neither do I and just put this down to professionalism and not wanting to let personal and work life mix.

What has now confused me is that we recently went to lunch together and I saw this as an opportunity to confirm my suspicions. During lunch I didn't pick up on any signals at all, the opposite in fact! Every time I very subtly put out feelers I got nothing. She mentioned she had been on a date with some guy a few weeks ago (didn't comment on if it was successful or not). When talking about another work colleague hitting on her previously she stated she would never get involved with someone she worked with. I hinted that I am really bad at noticing if someone is interested in me ands she stated that if she is interested in someone she just comes out and says so. When we were leaving the restaurant we met a friend of hers and introduced me as her manager not friend.

I'm no idiot and after this lunch the diagnosis seems pretty obvious but I can't reconcile this with the very intimate text messages we've exchanged on a number of occasions. Have I just been friend-zoned on an epic level or is there something I'm missing.

I'm fine either way but just want to know where I stand with her. I can't really ask her outright at the risk of making things weird at work.

Any advice or insights?
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Old 10-12-2013, 04:15 PM   #2
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Yes.

Though "friend" isn't a bad place and "friend zoned" is really more like you saying you became her friend on false pretenses hoping for more and now that friendship isn't enough...well...you get the idea.

She won't approach you when she's being a professional human being that isn't drunk.

So don't try to get her drunk and stay her friend and find someone else.
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Old 10-12-2013, 04:25 PM   #3
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^^^ Never at work I've been told and I'm sure you have too, so I think you're just wishful thinking. If she wanted to see you she'd let you know: you aren't being dumb and missing signals - from what you've described there aren't any. Sorry.
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Old 10-12-2013, 04:27 PM   #4
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Good advice. Move on. If she wants you she'll come get you, they always do.
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Old 10-12-2013, 04:29 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Recidiva View Post
Yes.

Though "friend" isn't a bad place and "friend zoned" is really more like you saying you became her friend on false pretenses hoping for more and now that friendship isn't enough...well...you get the idea.

She won't approach you when she's being a professional human being that isn't drunk.

So don't try to get her drunk and stay her friend and find someone else.
I get that friend-zone is a bit of a douche-bag term, just the best term to describe the situation.

I'm not some creep that's looking to take advantage, just confused by the mixed signals and want to know where I stand.

Thanks for your input though, very much appreciated.
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Old 10-12-2013, 04:33 PM   #6
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I get that friend-zone is a bit of a douche-bag term, just the best term to describe the situation.

I'm not some creep that's looking to take advantage, just confused by the mixed signals and want to know where I stand.

Thanks for your input though, very much appreciated.
That's cool. Just checking out whether or not you're skeevier than you posted.

Friend-zone is often code for "SHE WON'T LET ME TOUCH HER BOOBS! THOSE BOOBS! RIGHT THERE!" in a loud, whiny and possibly drunken tone.

As an owner of boobs I'm on the lookout

They're not actually mixed signals so much as mixed levels of responsibility. Drunk texting with an employee, you'll forgive me, is a really, really bad idea. She shouldn't have to be the one to put distance between you so that you realize it.

It's not bad because you're evil. It's bad because you have, according to the law, implied power over her job and to become involved in a sexual relationship, that puts you legally in the wrong immediately.

I'd actually be more concerned for you than for her in that case, you'd get the skin peeled off you in court, fair or no, if she was inclined to be also litigious when drunk.
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Old 10-12-2013, 04:38 PM   #7
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You're confused? I couldn't help but have a wry smile at that because boys think that girls have everything sorted but the fact is, they're even more confused than guys: believe me - I've heard locker room chat from both sides
And friend-zone is one of those shitty handbag terms to write off someone who's been whiney and needy: you're not that are you. I said "are you?!"
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Old 10-12-2013, 05:08 PM   #8
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Yep, move on.
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Old 10-12-2013, 07:54 PM   #9
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I'm gonna say it: she's a bitch and she's playing you.

This girl knows you want her, and she knows she can have leverage by flirting with you, and that you can't take it too far for fear of losing your job. The leverage could be anything from getting away with rules infractions to getting attention and free lunches from you.

Since she's under your skin and knows it, your best bet is to get her or you transferred. Don't try any of that "we need to be professional from now on" bullshit. Either she will push your buttons more or get spiteful and complain to HR about you harassing her and she went along so she wouldn't get fired. Btw, you may be thinking about wanting to keep it quiet before anyone else knows; they already know. Yes, you're screwed and you know it's your fault. But, live and learn. Good luck.
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Old 10-12-2013, 07:58 PM   #10
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If she's specifically said "no workmates" then that's what you need to know.

It's possible she's interested but has decided that getting involved with her manager is a bad idea. It's also possible she's happy to talk about sexual stuff outside work but doesn't feel like going beyond talk with you. I can see why you might be curious about which of those two is the case, but better to let it rest.

Even if she was outright flirting with you while drunk... my rule of thumb is, Sober Brain trumps Drunk Brain.

IME the "friend zone" is pretty much (if not entirely) a myth. There are plenty of cases where a woman is friendly with a guy & doesn't want to sleep with him, but that's not cause and effect. I know women who've been good friends with a guy for years before getting into a relationship with him.
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Old 10-12-2013, 08:15 PM   #11
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Broads want what they can't have... You need to bang someone at work, or one of her friends. All women at 18 are basically retarded. A simple game of letting her know that you have other options will catch her attention. I bet if you take my advice that she will be swallowing your cum within the week.
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Old 10-13-2013, 05:54 AM   #12
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Guys!

Don't waste your youth playing with bimbos.

I pound this lesson into my grandsons' heads constantly. LET THE FOOLS ENTERTAIN THE BIMBOS, YOU GET BUSY WITH YOUR CAREER AND PROSPERITY.
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Old 10-13-2013, 06:54 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Recidiva View Post
Yes.

Though "friend" isn't a bad place and "friend zoned" is really more like you saying you became her friend on false pretenses hoping for more and now that friendship isn't enough...well...you get the idea.

She won't approach you when she's being a professional human being that isn't drunk.

So don't try to get her drunk and stay her friend and find someone else.
This above IS how women see friend zone...it isn't as if they don't KNOW that you wouldn't mind something physical, but when you are not DIRECT very early on, it leaves them with an uneasy feeling. a gentle dread, "When is he going to make this awkward for me by trying something."

So don't do that...how not to be "just a friend"? Don't DO the things that just a friend would do.

From a guys (wrong) perspective, he was'nt using false pretenses, he was just unrealistically hopeful...the thinking is - earn her trust and she will be more open to a gentle approach later...problem is women for the most part LIKE the unknown, a little edge of excitement, so building comfort is NOT the way to get into her pants...

"So after a long and friendly courtship...she suddenly longed for him to rip her bodice open and have his way with her tender parts...." ...read no romance novel EVER.

You HAD a shot...but you blew it.

For next time here is what you did wrong...you waited way too long to ask her to lunch, you were already a known "safe" (meaning not sexy) entity by then. The way you became too "safe" to be sexy is by being too available, and to communicative. You are as sexy to her as her gay hairdresser, that's why she felt she could share details of her sex life.

Your next question is how do you get out of the friend-zone...basically you can't...I've done as poorly as you in situations and once you auger the plane into the ground, there is no getting it aloft again.

In THEORY, you politely get some space...hard to do without looking like you are bored with her (bad), were only interested in one thing (even worse), or that you are feeling butt-hurt...(really really bad).

anything that MIGHT (but almost ever does) work you CANT do and keep your job and your dignity and self respect.

if it was NOT a coworker (and worse of course an underling) you COULD try letting her see you interact with strength with other girls...but yeah...next time, better luck through being more clear early on.

Girls NEVER give you what you don't ask for.

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Guys!

Don't waste your youth playing with bimbos.

I pound this lesson into my grandsons' heads constantly. LET THE FOOLS ENTERTAIN THE BIMBOS, YOU GET BUSY WITH YOUR CAREER AND PROSPERITY.
As someone who DID do that...(people thought I seemed 40 in my youth), yes it got me a house early and some stability. but all that did was leave me open to getting married to the first girl to figure out I WAS the home-owner of that student-filled hovel...

my youth seemed to be wasted on lack-a-bimbo.

and though yes I can appreciate, savor a fine bimbo at my age now more than a young guy would, it is MUCH pricier chasing them when you are a "mature" established "gentleman".

better to have said "I spent the bulk of my youth on fast women. faster cars and fine whisky." Te balance of the time and resources, I just wasted.
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Old 10-13-2013, 07:04 AM   #14
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Broads want what they can't have... You need to bang someone at work, or one of her friends. All women at 18 are basically retarded. A simple game of letting her know that you have other options will catch her attention. I bet if you take my advice that she will be swallowing your cum within the week.
THIS is basically correct but you can't very well openly bang a different underling in a very public way...because you then will be unemployed...if you were all at equal station in an entry level job you care not at all about, I would say he is right.
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Old 10-13-2013, 07:08 AM   #15
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This above IS how women see friend zone...it isn't as if they don't KNOW that you wouldn't mind something physical, but when you are not DIRECT very early on, it leaves them with an uneasy feeling. a gentle dread, "When is he going to make this awkward for me by trying something."

So don't do that...how not to be "just a friend"? Don't DO the things that just a friend would do.

From a guys (wrong) perspective, he was'nt using false pretenses, he was just unrealistically hopeful...the thinking is - earn her trust and she will be more open to a gentle approach later...problem is women for the most part LIKE the unknown, a little edge of excitement, so building comfort is NOT the way to get into her pants...

"So after a long and friendly courtship...she suddenly longed for him to rip her bodice open and have his way with her tender parts...." ...read no romance novel EVER.

You HAD a shot...but you blew it.

For next time here is what you did wrong...you waited way too long to ask her to lunch, you were already a known "safe" (meaning not sexy) entity by then. The way you became too "safe" to be sexy is by being too available, and to communicative. You are as sexy to her as her gay hairdresser, that's why she felt she could share details of her sex life.

Your next question is how do you get out of the friend-zone...basically you can't...I've done as poorly as you in situations and once you auger the plane into the ground, there is no getting it aloft again.

In THEORY, you politely get some space...hard to do without looking like you are bored with her (bad), were only interested in one thing (even worse), or that you are feeling butt-hurt...(really really bad).

anything that MIGHT (but almost ever does) work you CANT do and keep your job and your dignity and self respect.

if it was NOT a coworker (and worse of course an underling) you COULD try letting her see you interact with strength with other girls...but yeah...next time, better luck through being more clear early on.

Girls NEVER give you what you don't ask for.
This may be true for some women, but mostly I think it's true for men who think that being a "strong" anything means "win"!

But people are much more complicated than this and this wouldn't work with me.

Sure, let women know you're interested, but the whole manipulative "see her interact with strength with other girls" is patently that. Manipulative. Go out of your way to set up some sort of drama and that's where 'gentle dread' comes from, which is an interesting phrase, but in this case, used in bewildering context.

Gain someone's attention through manipulation and an inability to deal straight with someone, and that's the relationship you're going to have.

My serious impression from all these guys giving bad advice about women? They would like to see you fail. That may be fair or unfair, but a lot of this advice is just an attempt to look Alpha and gather a pack of Beta Padawans. "Look to me for the secrets to liiiiife. Bitches. Fuck 'em. Here's how!"

How about be a human being and make a friend and have some vulnerable moments and have some strong moments and spill a drink and crack a joke and see who you like and who likes you. It IS complicated because it's unpredictable, but it's not that damned hard or dire.

Stop watching or reading stuff written by guys and do the smart thing and ask some women. You'll find different answers. "One Size Fits All" only gets you one type of woman and that's why you end up with the people using these approaches also simultaneously fairly hateful and thoroughly unrealistic about women.

If you guys think women can't read and don't know this is what you're doing...and that you're setting each up for epic failure...you should.

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Old 10-13-2013, 07:24 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by query View Post
This above IS how women see friend zone...it isn't as if they don't KNOW that you wouldn't mind something physical, but when you are not DIRECT very early on, it leaves them with an uneasy feeling. a gentle dread, "When is he going to make this awkward for me by trying something."

So don't do that...how not to be "just a friend"? Don't DO the things that just a friend would do.

From a guys (wrong) perspective, he was'nt using false pretenses, he was just unrealistically hopeful...the thinking is - earn her trust and she will be more open to a gentle approach later...problem is women for the most part LIKE the unknown, a little edge of excitement, so building comfort is NOT the way to get into her pants...

"So after a long and friendly courtship...she suddenly longed for him to rip her bodice open and have his way with her tender parts...." ...read no romance novel EVER.

You HAD a shot...but you blew it.

For next time here is what you did wrong...you waited way too long to ask her to lunch, you were already a known "safe" (meaning not sexy) entity by then. The way you became too "safe" to be sexy is by being too available, and to communicative. You are as sexy to her as her gay hairdresser, that's why she felt she could share details of her sex life.

Your next question is how do you get out of the friend-zone...basically you can't...I've done as poorly as you in situations and once you auger the plane into the ground, there is no getting it aloft again.

In THEORY, you politely get some space...hard to do without looking like you are bored with her (bad), were only interested in one thing (even worse), or that you are feeling butt-hurt...(really really bad).

anything that MIGHT (but almost ever does) work you CANT do and keep your job and your dignity and self respect.

if it was NOT a coworker (and worse of course an underling) you COULD try letting her see you interact with strength with other girls...but yeah...next time, better luck through being more clear early on.

Girls NEVER give you what you don't ask for.



As someone who DID do that...(people thought I seemed 40 in my youth), yes it got me a house early and some stability. but all that did was leave me open to getting married to the first girl to figure out I WAS the home-owner of that student-filled hovel...

my youth seemed to be wasted on lack-a-bimbo.

and though yes I can appreciate, savor a fine bimbo at my age now more than a young guy would, it is MUCH pricier chasing them when you are a "mature" established "gentleman".

better to have said "I spent the bulk of my youth on fast women. faster cars and fine whisky." Te balance of the time and resources, I just wasted.
Our choices have consequences that echo thru our lives.
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Old 10-13-2013, 07:28 AM   #17
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She's toying with you. Move on.
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Old 10-13-2013, 07:42 AM   #18
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She's toying with you. Move on.
I'm not getting how it is toying by default. Yes, it could be...BUT...I talk fairly openly about sexual things and I'm flirty. This does not mean I'm toying with anybody. It means I'm open and flirty. Neither of which constitute a contract or promise. This is not to have power over anybody or to get favors or lead people on, it's a fairly innocent social construct that sometimes means not much more than small talk about the weather, particularly with a younger person for whom texts and sex are not huge deals, but daily life.

If he didn't like the flirting and the openness, he probably could have said so somewhere along the line. The problem isn't that she was flirty or open, the "problem" is that that is where her interest ends.
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Old 10-13-2013, 07:47 AM   #19
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Old 10-13-2013, 07:53 AM   #20
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I'm not getting how it is toying by default. Yes, it could be...BUT...I talk fairly openly about sexual things and I'm flirty. This does not mean I'm toying with anybody. It means I'm open and flirty. Neither of which constitute a contract or promise. This is not to have power over anybody or to get favors or lead people on, it's a fairly innocent social construct that sometimes means not much more than small talk about the weather, particularly with a younger person for whom texts and sex are not huge deals, but daily life.

If he didn't like the flirting and the openness, he probably could have said so somewhere along the line. The problem isn't that she was flirty or open, the "problem" is that that is where her interest ends.
Perhaps so. I too am flirty and openly talk about sexual matter. However, MY behaviours are the same via text, or whatever other medium, as they are in real life. If I talk to you in that nature via text I would also be comfortable and do so face-to-face. That's what bothers me and makes me feel like she's just having a giggle and her own fun with this. Which, for her, is not a "problem" (as you put it) but for him it is because he feels like it's been more.

I don't believe he said anywhere he didn't like the flirting and the sex talk. I believe he felt there was more to it, and is surprised and confused that she seems to be of the opposite opinion. There are always two people in an interaction like this and both of their feelings about the interaction are valid - not just hers. So yes, this behaviour is a "problem" when it is not working for both parties.
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Old 10-13-2013, 08:09 AM   #21
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Perhaps so. I too am flirty and openly talk about sexual matter. However, MY behaviours are the same via text, or whatever other medium, as they are in real life. If I talk to you in that nature via text I would also be comfortable and do so face-to-face. That's what bothers me and makes me feel like she's just having a giggle and her own fun with this. Which, for her, is not a "problem" (as you put it) but for him it is because he feels like it's been more.

I don't believe he said anywhere he didn't like the flirting and the sex talk. I believe he felt there was more to it, and is surprised and confused that she seems to be of the opposite opinion. There are always two people in an interaction like this and both of their feelings about the interaction are valid - not just hers. So yes, this behaviour is a "problem" when it is not working for both parties.
Its a crossed-transaction. Or TALKING SHIT.

The best example I can recall is our boss sharing the news that our project got an increase in its operating budget, THERE MAY BE A PAY RAISE IN IT FOR EVERYONE. When we pressed him about the raises he confessed that there weren't any raises and none had been discussed. So he was talking shit.
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Old 10-13-2013, 08:24 AM   #22
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Perhaps so. I too am flirty and openly talk about sexual matter. However, MY behaviours are the same via text, or whatever other medium, as they are in real life. If I talk to you in that nature via text I would also be comfortable and do so face-to-face. That's what bothers me and makes me feel like she's just having a giggle and her own fun with this. Which, for her, is not a "problem" (as you put it) but for him it is because he feels like it's been more.

I don't believe he said anywhere he didn't like the flirting and the sex talk. I believe he felt there was more to it, and is surprised and confused that she seems to be of the opposite opinion. There are always two people in an interaction like this and both of their feelings about the interaction are valid - not just hers. So yes, this behaviour is a "problem" when it is not working for both parties.
Okay, I'm just trying to not blame this chick, who seriously just might be young and kinda indiscreet while drunk or friendly.

I find that by being a "girl" I'm just an inherent problem to some people. If I have boobs, I'm having boobs "AT" them. If I'm friendly, I'm being friendly "AT" them and it must mean I want to fuck them.

Sometimes I'm just friendly and open and I have boobs and the rest is sour grapes about what that should mean in the real world.
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Old 10-13-2013, 08:34 AM   #23
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Okay, I'm just trying to not blame this chick, who seriously just might be young and kinda indiscreet while drunk or friendly.

I find that by being a "girl" I'm just an inherent problem to some people. If I have boobs, I'm having boobs "AT" them. If I'm friendly, I'm being friendly "AT" them and it must mean I want to fuck them.

Sometimes I'm just friendly and open and I have boobs and the rest is sour grapes about what that should mean in the real world.
She may well be drunk or overly friendly (with her boss!), and that's fine, but when the other party is misunderstanding the intention behind it, that it's just sillyness/play to the other, than it's no longer cool.
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Old 10-13-2013, 08:41 AM   #24
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She may well be drunk or overly friendly (with her boss!), and that's fine, but when the other party is misunderstanding the intention behind it, that it's just sillyness/play to the other, than it's no longer cool.
That's mostly what I'm trying to get at. This thing about "mixed signals" can always be straightened out by saying "Hey, do you want to have sex with me?" and then you get your answer.

WE CAN TALK!

Why is that a necessary news flash?

And for every woman who wishes to convey her inner depth with hints and signals behind a fan. Fucking stop it. Your "mystery" is not a priority. If you're hung up on not giving your secrets away or "he will lose interest' then perhaps you're just not that interesting. Stop fucking with people and use your damned words. You're making life miserable for the rest of us who have the code ring applied to us while we wonder why people don't ask a straight question.
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Old 10-13-2013, 09:33 AM   #25
lovecraft68
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lovecraft68 is offline
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Posts: 20,397
My advice is stop texting her.

texting has become a media for "harmless flirting" and right up into full cyber sex, but many times with no contact. Its a game. The fact she gave you no signals at lunch proves it.

Now I will probably upset some people with tossing in some common sense decency.

Ten years at 38/28 33/23 may not be a huge deal, but you are 28 she is 18

18. Forget what you read in the porn stories here 18 is a child. Yes its legal age, but 18 year old boys/girls are still kids.

Spare me your "hearts desire" its another part of your anatomy's desire.

Grow up and date women your own age, unless, like most men your age who chase children you are too immature to get women your age.

Also if nothing else? if there are no "in person" signals?" she is probably laughing at you with her friends. After all, you are dealing with a kid.

As for being her manager? Why, oh why, do I see fast food as the back drop for this?
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Something "real men" should know.

The queen is the most powerful piece in the game of chess and frequently has to protect the rather weak king.

Just like in real life.
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