Slavespace

I inadvertently came across an interesting article today by yielding, on subspace vs slavespace, and thought others might be interested in exploring the concept and discussing their experiences, and perceptions of slavespace, and the differences between both. I was also interested in whether Dominants preferred one or the other state for their submissive to experience, or neither, or really didn't mind either way. As I have mentioned before, Master prefers I do not go into subspace, which is really not an issue as I have never experienced it, or at least not identified it as such or felt it during play. He has yet to read this article so I am unsure how he would feel about it, but think perhaps it would be more in keeping with his taste. I have placed a small quote from the article, and posted the links for this article, and the corresponding follow up to it, below.

The difference between the two is what I consider most important. Subspace is a pleasurable place in which I am focused on my own reactions and my own good feelings. In subspace I am not considering my Master at all, but am putting all my energy into the altered state of pleasure. It is undoubtedly a fabulous place to be.

In slavespace, on the other hand, none of the focus is on me. It is all on my Master. It is a place in which I can obey and serve with a sense of contentment as pleasurable mentally as subspace is physically. However, none of the "selfishness" of subspace is evident in slavespace.

While both states function on physiological and pychological levels, subspace is more a product of the physical and slave space more dependent upon the psychological. Further, subspace allows acceptance physical and emotional freedom; slave space allows acceptance of the opposite.

http://www.leathernroses.com/submission/yieldingsubspace.htm

(Edited to change the link as it seems to have moved since this thread began)

Catalina http://www.smilies4you.de/content/liebe/b18.gif

Thought I would add the other article link referred to as well to make finding it easier and quicker.
http://www.enslavement.org.uk/reactance.html

C

I find those articles very fascinating, thank you Catalina. I've experienced both types of "space" over the years. What I feel mostly is just a huge sense of going very deep in both mind and body, nothing else matters but what Master is doing at that moment. That isn't so different from not going deep, the focus on Master that is.

My experience is closest to "slavespace" my focus is on nothing but him and my body and mind react very strongly to what he is doing, saying, it is at that point where I "feel" all of my will, surrender, whole being just melt away and all that is left is his manipualtion and usage of me, his vessel, his to do with as he wishes. I've always found it very hard to explain. The articles do a great job at putting the feelings into words.

I am sorry you haven't experienced this, you sure you haven't? I always go so deep with Master, he is always amazed by it. Once he had to check my eyes to make sure I was okay -- it's almost like I go into this trance. I am sure I am not the only one who has experienced that. Personally it is a wonderful space to be in, and even though I am completely my Master's everything, to get into that space is so wonderfully delicious and it pleases him so much when he puts me there.

Thanks for sharing

LOL...not so sure, though if I have it is more an after thing when I just float blissfully, never during as I maintain complete consciousness of everything that is happening and his wishes. The slavespace is probably more a possibility for me, though he has decided he will try taking me to subspace just so I can experience it for sure. Should be interesting if he can break through that barrier for me, but not something I feel is number one on my list of things I feel I must experience.

Catalina

Must say, in reading these 2 articles today, they seem to describe for me a reality I can identify with. I think the emotions and conflicts yielding describes going through are true for many of us. The difficulty is often we do not delve deep enough to seek out the reasons behind our behaviour, and though we may say our focus is on serving our Dominant's needs, the reality shows more a focus on our own needs and wants, even if those needs and wants are to feel we are fulfilling their needs. IMHO it is an interesting and honest discussion which enables submissives/slaves to look more deeply into their motivation and expectations within and without the relationship.

Catalina

thank you for these articles, very informative.

so far i have reached sub space, and will keep you posted on my progress into slave space

excellent thoughts for reflection here Catalina slavespace has so much to offer. A very educational thread!



Willowthwisp

I have always seen the two intermingle...both a sub or a slave can dance between either space simply depending on the emotions preceding the sensation play or sex play.
I think separating the two is a bit to much splitting hairs for Me.

Shadowsdream said:

I have always seen the two intermingle...both a sub or a slave can dance between either space simply depending on the emotions preceding the sensation play or sex play.
I think separating the two is a bit to much splitting hairs for Me.

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I can see how that can be. For us, Master prefers I not lose that focus so spoken about as happening in subspace, seeing it as then becoming a disjointed type situation where I would be in my own head and bodyspace when his purpose is for me to serve his needs 100%. He tends to prefer to decide and choose when I will be rewarded, and though he knows I enjoy the pain as much as he does giving it, it is irrelevent to his giving it as he believes it should primarily be for him.

I see slavespace as extending on this to focus the relationship goals on the Dominant's needs at all times, and surrendering those needs and wants which creep into the submissive/slave psyche for the purpose of serving without thought to our own desires. It of course, for me anyway, then brings me pleasure in that this is what my original goal was in a relationship, but sometimes find difficult to maintain 24/7 when being human tends to tempt one from the projected goal. The thought process is I am doing it for him and wish to simply for that reason...if it did not reward me in it's own way, I would still feel it were part of my commitment to serve his needs irrespective of my own. Is a continuous journey to fulfil, with a long way for me to travel to reach a point I begin to feel is acceptable to our M/s relationship model.

Catalina

subspace to me was always kind of a glorified endorphin rush, experienced with a trusted Top. I've been in what people commonly refer to as "subspace" by most common explanations and definitions, minus the desire to belong to or serve the Top putting me there, instead perhaps replacing this with some new agey woo woo desire to connect with their spirit via pain or something like that that I hesitate to admit to

It's physical. It's usually internal, and self-centered (I don't mean this in a pejorative sense).

And yet I don't think its *transcendant* nature is not relevant to slavery, even if it's very focused on the slave and renders them kinda useless to the Master in practical purposes. I think there's a point to M/s, as there is to any symbiotic lifelong bond, where the players are both part of a bigger scheme, something that *is* transcendant and mind-altering and outside of normal "space"

Slavery and slave space, to me with my harshly unromantic views of slavery, is purely practical, purposeful and highly, keenly aware, readied and selfless. The soldier at attention is in slave space, not the bound woman fighting off a climax.

slavespace for me is a glorious absence of mind. There is nothing in the world that matters as much as pleasing him. The world could stop turning and I'm not sure I'd notice.

For this reason, I'm not allowed to make decisions or committments while caught in that particular headspace.

Subspace entails some of those same aspects but I can think there.

Its good to have a Master that understands the way your head works.

Ah! I've never achieved subspace (that I'm aware of), but I am pretty sure I have made it to slavespace. I've never heard of the concept before, but I really like the idea. For me it has come when I'm performing a service well - if I'm not doing it well, then I'm too focused on my own shame at my failure. But if I'm doing really well, then I can trust myself and slip into total 100% servitude. It's a gratifying feeling.

Netzach said:

Slavery and slave space, to me with my harshly unromantic views of slavery, is purely practical, purposeful and highly, keenly aware, readied and selfless. The soldier at attention is in slave space, not the bound woman fighting off a climax.

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As you say I think this is very true for many slaves . Initially I think the struggle is to reach that place where you can give so selflessly as it is human nature to expect a pay off of some kind whether it be reward or pleasure in knowing you have done well, there is often that desire no matter how small once you delve through the layers of reasoning. I hope to achieve this selfless space on a more frequent than sometimes basis, and in a manner where I no longer have moments where I hesitate or question.

Catalina

Georgia Girl said:

slavespace for me is a glorious absence of mind. There is nothing in the world that matters as much as pleasing him. The world could stop turning and I'm not sure I'd notice.

For this reason, I'm not allowed to make decisions or committments while caught in that particular headspace.

Subspace entails some of those same aspects but I can think there.

Its good to have a Master that understands the way your head works.

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Do you mean 'absence of mind' in the sense you don't question or have to think before obeying or completing a task? This would be a wonderful place to be where my mind was not immediately off on a tangent of wondering and trying to fathom when all that is required is obedience at all times. I achieve it at times, but I think the past few months have been too laden with life issues to deal with outside the relationship, it has detracted and distracted when I would prefer it didn't.

Catalina

Etoile said:

Ah! I've never achieved subspace (that I'm aware of), but I am pretty sure I have made it to slavespace. I've never heard of the concept before, but I really like the idea. For me it has come when I'm performing a service well - if I'm not doing it well, then I'm too focused on my own shame at my failure. But if I'm doing really well, then I can trust myself and slip into total 100% servitude. It's a gratifying feeling.

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Reinforcing and acknowledging we are serving in a way that pleases does generate a good feeling doesn't it. Hopefully I will soon be able to focus 100% on just him again soon without sideline influences. Thank goodness I have one who has a depth of understanding and empathy to be grateful for, not to mention supreme patience.

Catalina

catalina_francisco said:

Do you mean 'absence of mind' in the sense you don't question or have to think before obeying or completing a task? This would be a wonderful place to be where my mind was not immediately off on a tangent of wondering and trying to fathom when all that is required is obedience at all times. I achieve it at times, but I think the past few months have been too laden with life issues to deal with outside the relationship, it has detracted and distracted when I would prefer it didn't.

Catalina

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That is the way in which I mean. We have been together long enough and know each other well enough that we complete sentences for each other. I know what is expected of me ...... I have it in writing if I ever have a doubt.

The times when life interfers and my mind is elsewhere He is understanding, when I hover above and never sink into that space. It frustrates Him but He understands.

I hope the life issues smooth out for you so you too can sink into that glorious space.

Georgia Girl said:

That is the way in which I mean. We have been together long enough and know each other well enough that we complete sentences for each other. I know what is expected of me ...... I have it in writing if I ever have a doubt.

The times when life interfers and my mind is elsewhere He is understanding, when I hover above and never sink into that space. It frustrates Him but He understands.

I hope the life issues smooth out for you so you too can sink into that glorious space.

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We never bothered with putting it in writing. I do seem to remember we began working on a contract way back but decided it was really unnecessary for us anymore as I had committed 100% and had no limits but his. It was a beautiful feeling for me to realise he trusted me, as I did him, enough to not feel we needed it in writing though I do understand why others may want that tangible evidence, even if only for sentimentality.

Fortunately, like you, we have a relationship where we more often than not say the same things at the same times. He understands when I am distracted by huge family issues, as I do him. Life is never smooth in reality and has to be allowed for in all it's intrusiveness.

For us the last year has been like turning our seperate worlds upside down to make our united reality an actuality. I find I still at times have nightmares over the personal traumas and dramas I had to cope with a world away from his physical care while arranging to finalise my life in one country to be with him in another. Fortunately those nightmares are becoming less and seem most prevalent when I am physically or mentally run down in some way. His strength and love help me through into the light again.

It is that bond we share which will lead me more and more into slavespace as a totality, more so than a sometimes thing, where I can devote a tunnel-like vision to his needs and wants 100%. I often try when I am in less than appropriate space to do so at which time he often stops everything and takes a raincheck, or guides me more gently, whichever approach seems most suitable. I can never thank him enough for the love and peace he has brought to my life, for the endless patience he shows with the huge commitment he has taken on in accepting us into his care, and for the way he has made me realise he will always be there no matter what and that he will never accept me being anywhere but in his care. He is a remarkable human being.

Catalina

In many ways I find discussions like this amusing.

Sub-space, Slave-space, Dom-space, etc, are all mental states. And no two heads are alike.

Why does there seem to be this urge to label mental-spaces, and call them something, and then require everyone to agree on them?

I know with my last submissive, almost every time she was in "sub-space", it felt different to her. She described it as a lot of different head spaces, not just the one. Was one of those "sub-space" and one "slave-space"? Perhaps one was "outer-space"? Or "oh-my-god-I-have-to-pee" space?

The more people you try and compare mental spaces with, the more differences you are going to get. There can be similarities and themes, but everyone will experience it differently.

FungiUg said:

The more people you try and compare mental spaces with, the more differences you are going to get. There can be similarities and themes, but everyone will experience it differently.

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I think in part the main difference between subspace and slave space is not as simple as head space/ mental state, but also reflects on ability to serve at the time. Almost without variation, people describe subspace as a state whereby they are not able to function, not totally aware of surroundings, focused more on their pleasure than the Dominant's, etc, etc., Slavespace in comparison is said to not be debilitating in that way, but enables the submissive/slave to focus their attention on serving their Dominant and an acute awareness of what is happening, what is required. Subspace holds a curiousity for me as it is not a place I seem to have been, but then I also have the feeling I am one of those who will not get there....slavespace on the other hand I daresay I have touched on and been in and will be able to revisit in the future. As with most things in life, the concepts intrigue me and demand I at least attempt to understand them to some degree.

Catalina

catalina_francisco said:

I think in part the main difference between subspace and slave space is not as simple as head space/ mental state, but also reflects on ability to serve at the time. Almost without variation, people describe subspace as a state whereby they are not able to function, not totally aware of surroundings, focused more on their pleasure than the Dominant's, etc, etc., Slavespace in comparison is said to not be debilitating in that way, but enables the submissive/slave to focus their attention on serving their Dominant and an acute awareness of what is happening, what is required. Subspace holds a curiousity for me as it is not a place I seem to have been, but then I also have the feeling I am one of those who will not get there....slavespace on the other hand I daresay I have touched on and been in and will be able to revisit in the future. As with most things in life, the concepts intrigue me and demand I at least attempt to understand them to some degree.

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I am totally with Catalina on this one. I never have reached subspace, and I don't think I ever will, but I have heard others describe it very specifically and it does seem to be a recognizable state in which others can determine common elements.

I think in terms of any discussion concerning "-space" the fundamental line connecting the theme is that when we arrive in our headspace, we are able to fully release ourselves from the role playing of everyday life and find comfort and excitement by being in touch with a hidden core within our being.

Thank you for the discussion, catalina. It brought to the forefront something that has escaped my understanding up to now.

I found subspace easily with two very special Dominants. I loved it and became very focussed on my own peace in that headspace. I would lose myself so completely as to do anything for Them. However, I was not proactively seeking opportunities to serve.

For scooter, he goes into slave space. He finds his space and craves serving and that I use him. There have been times when he begged for more and I felt it was time to stop for his own benefit. He is selfless when he is in his special head space.

To recognize my own place on the learning curve, scooter's space was unsettling. I wondered if it was real, if he truly was that focussed on my needs that he craved and needed to serve or be used. Or, was he playing a game? Unfortunately, because it was a feeling, a thought process, part of submission that I had not experienced, I questioned it. However, after some events and discussion last night as well as this thread to help put into words what I could not verbalize, by George, I think I've got it!



Then, each of us have our own unique experiences and reactions to the same stimuli. Sometimes, my own "vanilla " thinking from days gone by creeps in and causes doubt and concern. I need to remember to just let go and love what is happening in my life rather than question it.

MissTaken said:

For scooter, he goes into slave space. He finds his space and craves serving and that I use him. There have been times when he begged for more and I felt it was time to stop for his own benefit. He is selfless when he is in his special head space.

I can relate to this well. Master often tells me 'no more' when I am begging for more use, more ways to serve his needs. scooter and I are both fortunate to have someone who cares enough about us not to take advantage of our desire to please beyond all reason when it may not be in our best interests to do so.


Then, each of us have our own unique experiences and reactions to the same stimuli. Sometimes, my own "vanilla " thinking from days gone by creeps in and causes doubt and concern. I need to remember to just let go and love what is happening in my life rather than question it.

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I think this is true for most of us, especially in our age group where we have already lived a full life in the vanilla world. Those thoughts and habits do not completely disappear overnight, if ever, partly I think because we are forced through a need to survive to straddle both worlds, one minute vanilla, the next our chosen lifestyle. I still experience moments where I find myself reacting to something said or done, the way I would in the vanilla sense and have to remind myself it was not done with a vanilla thought process behind it and I must switch back to where I am meant to be. The challenges are worth every minute though.

Catalina

catalina_francisco said:

I think this is true for most of us, especially in our age group where we have already lived a full life in the vanilla world. Those thoughts and habits do not completely disappear overnight, if ever, partly I think because we are forced through a need to survive to straddle both worlds, one minute vanilla, the next our chosen lifestyle. I still experience moments where I find myself reacting to something said or done, the way I would in the vanilla sense and have to remind myself it was not done with a vanilla thought process behind it and I must switch back to where I am meant to be. The challenges are worth every minute though.

Catalina

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Just an opinion here . It is the slave that has to actually allow herself to get there...it is very hard to do as i see it as a place you go mentally, what is deep in our mind is not always how we actually see things.Once you get close (well for me my first few times), Its a struggle to push all the stuff in your head aside and just take the next step. Once you are there you cant see feel or hear anything but Master . You respond to his every word without the worry or overthinking trying to be sure this is what he wants, you just do, and its the most wonderfully complete feeling in the world,responding w/out question or thought or even the ability to think. Trust has to be in place there, you need to know he will know when its too far for you because you arent gonna want to come back lol. The best part is that the next time will just happen because you broke down whatever mental barrier you had and your mind and body remember the perfect feeling and actually want to go instead of cooking up a million reasons not to go. Suggestion: if you really want to try to get there..prepare your mind before the scene, let the feeling of Master be all around you..in your head heart and soul thru your day or in whatever time he gives you to prepare. Make the time to keep your mind calm and clear,everyday life creeps into all of us and it always seems to be at the worst times lol...For me, keeping my focus on Master pushes those things out of the way. Try a song that reminds you of him, listen as you soak in a tub, listen over and over again till he is all you can feel.Once you get to slavespace and then back to your real life...your real life issues dont seem as overwhelming as before. in my opinion, allowing yourself to get there for Master is the best gift you can give him and yourself. It confirms for both of you the trust and devotion you say in words. And like i said before...once you go and feel it, your mind and body will respond the next time w/out the struggle and the stress release and peacefulness you will feel after will go a long way in keeping the every day life you live from getting out of hand for you. All of this is only from my experience and opinions i have formed because of them. Hope it helps in someway.

Kajira Callista said:

Just an opinion here . It is the slave that has to actually allow herself to get there.....once you go and feel it, your mind and body will respond the next time w/out the struggle and the stress release and peacefulness you will feel after will go a long way in keeping the every day life you live from getting out of hand for you. All of this is only from my experience and opinions i have formed because of them. Hope it helps in someway.

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Not sure if you are referring to sub or slave space. I'm not overly concerned about subspace, especially as I know he does not want me there apart from a one off experiment to let me experience it. Slavespace I think I have achieved more than once but did not find I lost contact with everything else, just that I was focused on his needs and my submission to a depth which is impossible to hold 24/7.

I find slavespace for me to be peaceful and the place I always wanted to be though the last memorable occasion saw me commit far more than ever before and made turning back the clock impossible.Fortunately I don't have to try to focus my mind on him ordinarily as he is in my thoughts every waking minute, and many sleeping ones. The sleeping part is what sets him apart from anyone else I have ever been in a relationship with as I have never dreamed of other partners while in the relationship, but with Master it is not at all unusual for him to be there in my dreams and nightmares. Guess it makes us even as I was part of his dreams for a long time before we even knew each other existed....is uncanny to know the accuracy with which he saw things that later happened to us and were out of our control to orchestrate.

Trust is a non issue as it runs deep both ways. As in everyday issues, the ones I speak of intruding are not just your average daily hinderances along the way, but more the huge responsibility type ones which involve children (one here with me and one with my grandchild 16,000kms away), and elderly parents who have relied on my physical and emotional support for the last few years and now are without that direct support and coffee time.

Fortunately they are over the moon I am so happy but it doesn't make it any easier being on one side of the planet knowing they are going for operations etc. on the other, and I can not be there and know there is a good chance they will not come out of them. Both are living on borrowed time so it is not a simple thing to cope with, especially with the added issues I have endured throughout the year in dealing with unexpected emotional traumas and moving my whole life in a matter of 6 weeks. I am hoping next year will be easier on the spirit and heart.

Catalina

It has been my understanding that some subs experience "sub-drop" after having been in sub-space. I don't see any corollary to slavespace...Catalina? Anyone?