Hard Limits

Lately I've been thinking about "hard limits" ... I have realtively I believe as I am willing to try anything once except for ....


1. anything involving a married/attached/or otherwise taken male whose partner (with the exception of perhaps a threesome but even then its really on shaky ground)

2. never ever draw blood (i put permanent marking in this category).

3. no animals, dead, living or otherwise (sometimes i will put your friends in this category if they are deserving of said category)

4. no scat

5. treat me with respect (that is more a rule than a limit but i think you see how it can be a limit - you can treat me like a slut, just don't go believing yourself)


i think i'm being reasonable - i know this has been discussed and discussed (i looked in the library) but oh well, i wanted to start a new thread and see where in goes - i don't really want to argue over why or whynot these things should or should not be hard limits - they are mine and for now i'm sticking to em... but i'm curious to see what others ya'll might have to add

I have a #1 rule that covers all of these...'Never break a submissive'. That covers bothe physical and emotional abuse, and is at the front of my mind whenever scening. I LOVE pushing linits...but going 1% beyond a limit depends upon the limit that the submissive has. I get pleasure from beating a woman who has a high pain tolerance, or lightly spanking a woman with a low tolerance.
I never want to push too hard, because a broken sub is no fun for me to play with...it is much more satisfying to push the limits a bit at a time.

I don't know my pain tolerance levels as of yet ... so i plan on being very careful and demanding the use of slow words in addition to a safeword


there i go again using words like demanding, how very unsubmissive of me.



Here's another limit i like:

No unattended bondage. I don't like being left alone.

SkylineBlue said:

I don't know my pain tolerance levels as of yet ... so i plan on being very careful and demanding the use of slow words in addition to a safeword


there i go again using words like demanding, how very unsubmissive of me.



Here's another limit i like:

No unattended bondage. I don't like being left alone.

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Anyone who would leave someone tied up and unattended isn't a Dominant...they are a moron! It is the equivalent of leaving a baby unattended in a car; it is irresponsible in the extreme.

yah but i see stories/fantasies all the time that involve that ... it always makes me cringe


it also makes me cringe when people put mind altering substances (including alcohol) into their fantasies

i'd sooner vote to re-elect george bush than allow anyone with more than a single beer in their system to scene with me

i just grossed myself out

SkylineBlue said:

yah but i see stories/fantasies all the time that involve that ... it always makes me cringe


it also makes me cringe when people put mind altering substances (including alcohol) into their fantasies

i'd sooner vote to re-elect george bush than allow anyone with more than a single beer in their system to scene with me

i just grossed myself out

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Jeez, there's another rule I have...no scening while drinking!! If a Dom is supposed to be responsible, and a sub is supposed to be ready with a safeword if things go to far, how does being trashed fit into that? A drink or two is one thing, being drunk is a whole other situation.

i ruined my ability to drink screwdrivers.... what a shame... i spent an entire friday hungover (ie, head in the toliet) and now just the thought of vodka makes me wozzy (( i also admited in a drunken game of truth or dare that i'd been come on and had what they felt constituted anal sex))

note to self : never ever drink and play cards again

i have few hard limits. 2 to be exact no children no animals, that pretty much covers it


for me "no mind altering substances" is a way of life, i don't let some who is under the influence drive me anywhere, i don't go check out somebodys gun collection that is drunk, i don't do basically anything other than talk (well i do spend alot of time laughing at them, the perks of being a bartender) with people under the influence of mind altering substances. so it's not a thing that is not limited to BDSM for me so i don't consider it a hard limit. i really don't wipe people that drink or do drugs out of my life because some of my best friends are drunks but i do NOT let them put me at risk in anyway in any area of my life. i have 2 children to raise on my own so i have to have some life rules that make sure i am there for them

I don't like seeing "no children" as a limit. That shouldn't even be on the table. It's almost like having "no pipe bombs in day care, or no airplanes slamming in to buildings" as a limit.

WriterDom said:

I don't like seeing "no children" as a limit. That shouldn't even be on the table. It's almost like having "no pipe bombs in day care, or no airplanes slamming in to buildings" as a limit.

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agreed, but there have been times when i have said i have no limits (because in my head no children or animals is a common sence thing) and have had people say to me in return "so you would have sex with a sheep if told to" & "oh you have a thing for children" so i now just state no children or animals just to avoid crazy people not using common sense

another crazy responce i commonly get to saying i have no limits is "what if He told you to kill somebody" this to me also falls under a common sense issue, only a crazy person would tell me to kill somebody and i don't play with crazy people

i used to have scat on there also but i have decided that in the right situation with the right person i would more than likely do it or at least try, so it has moved off the hard list

I agree there....there are just some things (like children) that should always be limits...its like saying i dont want to stop breathing permanently during play. I dont think a sub needs to inform a Dom that is a limit for her. Here is my take on limits...they are and should be things you arent comfy doing...and i believe that it is all part of play to have them tested and pushed a little to see where they go.

I feel like these things are just no-brainers. So why do sometimes I get the feeling that I'm very restrictive?

I think it must be all the people who don't know the difference between fantasy and reality.

SkylineBlue said:

I feel like these things are just no-brainers. So why do sometimes I get the feeling that I'm very restrictive?

I think it must be all the people who don't know the difference between fantasy and reality.

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Of course- but just keep in mind that sometimes you deal with people that have no brains.

So nope - you're just being sensible.

i'm curious if anyone else has a phobia ... such as a arachnaphobia ... and if they keep that a sort of secret so there is never temptation to test those limits ... or if you put it on your hard limits list

SkylineBlue said:

i'm curious if anyone else has a phobia ... such as a arachnaphobia ... and if they keep that a sort of secret so there is never temptation to test those limits ... or if you put it on your hard limits list

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I study the person and learn their fears and dislikes and will use it against her in discipline. But a phobia? No, I think that would really freak someone out.

WriterDom said:

I study the person and learn their fears and dislikes and will use it against her in discipline. But a phobia? No, I think that would really freak someone out.

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if 1 starts testing phobias They start walking an emotionally damaging tight rope. to much damage could be done

lol

glad you guys think so. i hyperventilate when leeches are in the area.... if a guy thought it'd be funny to bring one into play, I don't think i'd ever talk to him again

SkylineBlue said:

i'm curious if anyone else has a phobia ... such as a arachnaphobia ... and if they keep that a sort of secret so there is never temptation to test those limits ... or if you put it on your hard limits list

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I have in the past had phobias which I made hard limits unless someone could win my trust enough to believe challenging them would be worth the terror. Fortunately Master has been that one and has pushed me carefully past many such fears. It has helped me extend myself in many ways and overcome the previous areas which limited my life and held me back often. He did relate in a thread some time back how to safely negotiate phobias when they are pushed as limits, but can't remember where right now. I do agree it can be dangerous, which is why trust built on the knowledge your Dominant has your best interests at heart has to be a number one issue. For us there are still some places to probe and I trust him to know when I am ready to consider them.

As to the original question, I too had some of those limits, but as with many, time and circumstances often move you beyond hard limits, or at least some. I can relate to needing to specify them, and the ridiculous responses of people who question every outlandish circumstance they can come up with. For me, it is frustrating as I have moved to a position where I have no limits he does not give me, so such people are tempted more than they can resist to come up with the children, killing or robbery type scenarios. In my experience, SSC covers this in that a Dominant will not demand of a submissive to break the law in a manner which involves endangering a non-consenting person, especially one outside the relationship. Is all subjective, but would be nice if they focused on consent more so than trying to emphasis why your statement is not infinitely true in their mind.

Catalina

lilredwolph said:

... i don't play with crazy people...

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Truer words... you know?

This would be great on someone's sig line.

Hard limits

One has to respect safe words. Failure to do so crosses every line. People who do not respect safe words are not only crazy but dangerous.

Meaning of No Limits

I've seen lots of arguments over the "no limits" issue, and it is my opinion that they are all caused by misunderstandings over the meaning of the term. When a newbie sees the magic words "no limits" he thinks it means there is nothing this sub wouldn't do, and thus looks on her as sort of a higher class- as if no limits was the major leagues of submission.

In reality, the absence of limits has little to do with what the sub will or will not do- some "no limits" subs may have longer lists of things whey won't do than some subs with limits, they just don't look on it that way. We have seen this phenomenon here with the drugs and children issues.

The labels we apply to ourselves are important in forming or reinforcing our own self-image, but others don't perceive things the same way we do. Sort of like the old story of the lumberjack who has used the same axe for 40 years. When questioned, he admitted that he had replaced the handle 12 times, and the head twice, but it's still the same axe to him.

and not all limits are necessarily bdsm related though they can play major roles in the relationship.

i refuse to give up my career. doing that would be like killing an essential part of who i am. i love architecture, i want to be an architect, without that - i'm not sure who I am anymore.

plus i'd go stir crazy and turn into a lazy slob without that sort of daily regulation. i suppose the dominant could argue he's going to give me that regulation but it's more than just the regulation and routine. it's about meeting new people and expanding my world.

Saying that makes me realize that sometimes I don't want someone to "control" me - just be there to guide me if I need it. If some man was telling me where I could or couldn't work or what commissions I could and couldn't take - I'd tell him to go to hell and then start packing my bags. But if he spoke to me and advised me as best he could and helped me make good strong decisions without making them for me ... well then I'd be all the more happy to go down on my knees and do whatever he asked of me.

like Catalina, the only limits i have are those my Master sets for me at any given time, and those are ever-evolving. hard limits i had in the past weren't so much real limits, but more physical impossibilities. things like not harming another person or doing anything involving someone younger than myself...to do either requires some element of dominance in one's personality, since you are in essence exerting your will/force/power over another, and those things go completely against the nature of a submissive person like myself. so, when people try that line...oh well you do have limits then, if you wouldn't kill, wouldn't rape, etc....what they fail to comprehend that a true submissive isn't capable of intentionally harming or controlling another life.


i think some of the comments here are a bit harsh, but i understand that everyone's just expressing their opinions. but to say someone isn't a true Dominant because they bind someone and leave them alone for any amount of time? or that the Dom or sub being intoxicated automatically makes for a crazy unsafe situation? i don't know, i guess to me that's going way too far.

If a dominant leaves a person alone, tied up in such a way that they cannot escpae ... they are being irresponsible in that they are endangering the life of that person. what if there was a fire? what if he had a heartattack? If you know the signs you will have time to call 911 - but not if your hands are tied.

Furthermore, by setting a hard limit on this, the submissive protects the dominant ... if you leave someone tied up and the house burns down ... when they find the remains ... how understanding do you truly think the judge is going to be?

And there is no way I'd allow anyone to dominant me who did not have complete control of himself. I don't trust anyone to have complete control if they've been drinking or doing something else. I've been inebriated enough times to know the effects of alcohol. This isn't really an issue for me though, I'd never get involved with someone who did anything heavier than cafeinne and nicotine. Personal standards.

It is one of those things - being submissive doesn't suddenly mean you have to stop protecting yourself. To me, that's a no-brainer.

I just had a urinary tract infection. When I started medication for it, I said, "Well, I guess that's no sex for you" to T. Thought about it and asked, "Was that topping?"

He said, "Nah, you just know what's healthy for both of us."

That's the difference. I'll put words to decisions that we both know have to be made, and those include setting limits. If he is unaware of risk, it's my job to make him aware. I could probably put it more gracefully than I did in the example above. However, my trust in him must always be tempered by realism--just like if we're about to hit a pedestrian I'll scream a warning at T, I will not hesitate to say "no, sir" if he tells me to do something that will put either of us in jeopardy and I think he is not already aware of it. And then explain myself.