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Old 10-29-2004, 11:42 AM   #1
RJMasters
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Delving the Psyche of Sadists

I have wanted to understand more about the psyche of a Sadist. Admittedly I have some preconceived notions, and I think I have a good handle on the couple of reasons I like to inflict pain upon another person, however I wanted a chance to open up the discussion to learn more from other people's perspectives. So the playground is open...

Why, or what is it within me that finds pleasure in inflicting pain upon another?

In some ways I have a clear and narrow reason why. I use pain as a means to induce deeper love, loyalty and fear in order to draw the person of my desire closer to me.

Love - Knowing there is a deep seeded need in the one I am administering the pain unto(meeting the masochistic needs of my S/O). I want to be the one to meet that need, to be that keeper and controller of that drug. This translates to control.

Loyalty - The word is a bit misleading on the surface as to why I choose it to convey my thoughts. With in the context I have created, to me the inflicting of pain is a means in which I can test and probe the extreme love of my S/O to me. Simply put..."What will you endure for me today, my love?" This translates to devotion.

Fear - Again, on the surface a tad misleading unless you understand how I relate it to respect. There are many facets of what respect can be derived from, specifically applied here, it means the recognition of real force or pain. When one has felt the sting/cut from my hand/mind, as painful as it may be, they know it is but only a taste of what could be brought to bear. As the "taste" is administered in a controlled loving way, leaving plenty of room for the imagination to try to grasp what "uncontrolled" would be. This translates to respectful obedience.

So to summarize the above:


I used pain as a means to induce deeper love, loyalty and fear in order to draw the person of my desire closer to me. What I get out of it is control, devotion and respectful obedience, which is "why" I find and take pleasure in inflicting pain upon another


I have spoken specifically about the sadist within me. I would like to share my notions about the psyche of the Sadist in a more general way.

To understand the psyche of a sadist, I feel is important to speak about the realness of pain. Some would laugh at such a simple and obvious statement, but it is easy than one might think to over look the value of grasping what I mean by the "realness" of pain.

Most people spend their whole lives developing defensives and ways to numb them selves from knowing and experiencing pain. Sadist spend their whole lives developing ways to tear down these defenses and remove the numbness in order to make others face the realness of pain
.

In a sense it sounds almost like a cosmic battle, and in some ways I guess that is true as there is something which burns within the heart of the sadist for other to experience the realness of pain as terrifying as that may be.

The realness of pain simple means there is real power or force. The sadist knows this, feels it, and seeks to use it as a means of control and pleasure. They are intimately aware of the advantage this gives them over two types of people; Those that do everything to shy away from pain in order to not feel it, and those who have a need or craving for it.

Last but not least is more of a theory, but I sense there is truth in it...I feel at the root of why a person take pleasure in giving another pain, is the sadist's way of sharing the deep struggle within themselves. When doing this with a S/O, they are opening themselves and showing the other "this is who I am" and yes it is that scary. Imagine the great worth when the S/O shows not only acceptance, but takes pleasure from who and what they are. It defies words to explain the exchange between them, and the rest of us watch in horror not understanding the raw beauty which we behold.

Thank you for taking the time to read and consider what I have shared. Some may not want to delve this deep and it is enough for them to say "I just like it and that's good enough for me". But I hope that my thoughts have stimulated some of you out there, with the hopes you will share.
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"How beautiful is the song the birds make when I do hear their woes of
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as their boosoms are plucked in thier tenderness like ripen fruit. Laciviousness
of a dirty womb makes me heady like one who has taken too much drink."

~C.M~ you do a very skilled job of walking the fine line between being a mean, evil, horrid man, and a fucking bastard...

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Old 10-29-2004, 01:29 PM   #2
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Re: Delving the Psyche of Sadists

Ok, awesome thread, RJ. I'm not a sadist, but I really enjoyed reading your thoughts on it.

I personally always kinda figured it had to do with control. Control of the masochist, control of the pain, control of the sex. Of course, like I said, I'm not a sadist, so I'm not sure.

You've made me think, though, about masochism. What is it in me that makes me a masochist. What about it makes me feel loved? Hm.
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Old 10-29-2004, 01:54 PM   #3
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Interesting subject here. I'm sure it will get a lot of reads from everyone.

I have a different take on the sadist part of me. It is about power, command and wanton cruelty. There is a part of me that immerses in using someone else as my toy. Not just their body but their heart and mind. I know that I'm the one that did the sensual domination stuff but that is another part of me. It does tie together though.

To get inside the mind of the other person, to learn them intimately is in itself interesting and enjoyable. Then to twist them around a bit, to make them see and think what I want them to. There is power in that, control. Once you are deeply inside the mind of the other person then you can use their body as you see fit. You can induce pleasure and shame at the same time. You can make them feel conflicting things and take pleasure in the fact that they love you for it and would do anything for you.

To dominate the other person completely, to feel the sense of power that comes from within when you bend someone to your will. Many say that it is the gift given freely by the sub to her master and while there is some truth in that, once the control is given to me she is mine. This doesn't mean that I will ruin her. She will grow in strength every day. I will break her down and remake her over and over.

RJ, you have a background in martial arts. Didn't you find a sense of power and control when you had your opponent in pain and helpless?

Martial arts is a controlled arena though, much like a BDSM scene. For me the true sadist comes out on the street. In a streetfight where I can put all control aside and fully release that hungry part of me. It's strange to talk about but in that place I lose coherency of thought. There is a ravenous hunger for destruction and no morals at all. I can liken the feeling only really to what novels describe as the extremely erotic act of a vampire sucking a victim dry of life. To see the blood and hear the thick sound of a rib cracking under my knee. To feel the twist and pop of a joint dislocating. It is an undescribable feeling of hunger, lust and power.
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Old 10-29-2004, 02:25 PM   #4
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Re: Re: Delving the Psyche of Sadists

Quote:
Originally posted by graceanne
You've made me think, though, about masochism. What is it in me that makes me a masochist. What about it makes me feel loved? Hm.
Ty for your comments.

I have a bit of a masochist in me as well, but I was holding off on sharing that. Perhaps when you have thought about it and collected your thoughts you could share them.

The only thing I will share at this time, is that I know that a sadist and a masochist are cut from the same cloth, just tap into the realness of pain in a different way, to meet different needs.

In either case the "realness of pain" can be objectified, but true fulfillment is when it comes by the hand of another in a caring way, or is received by another in a loving and caring way. Then pain becomes an extention, vehicle or tool and becomes secondary in importance to the person(s) in the relationship.

What I have learned about myself is that the masochist in me objectifys pain, and helps me to tap into the ceansing power of pain. It matters not if it is a female or male who would deliver the pain as it is not sexual or relationship based, though I would still have a need to know and be close freinds with the person who did it. It would be important to me that they understand why I need the pain, before I could trust them to give it.

Unfortunately, I have never had the opportunity for this to happen, so I have only experienced self induced pain(75 hard lashes with leather belt to date), which takes care of the itch when it builds up a cpl of times each year, but never a complete release.

A vanilla mariage, the rarity of the timing when my need strikes, and having a person who I know and trust available at that percise moment, doesn't make it an easy thing to do and at times seems too much to hope for, but as I have said before...I remain a hopeful masochist.

I look forward to you sharing.

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"How beautiful is the song the birds make when I do hear their woes of
monthly toil. Adorned with such colorful shame let their cheeks be flush
as their boosoms are plucked in thier tenderness like ripen fruit. Laciviousness
of a dirty womb makes me heady like one who has taken too much drink."

~C.M~ you do a very skilled job of walking the fine line between being a mean, evil, horrid man, and a fucking bastard...

Last edited by RJMasters : 10-29-2004 at 02:48 PM.
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Old 10-29-2004, 02:50 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by Betticus
Interesting subject here. I'm sure it will get a lot of reads from everyone.

I have a different take on the sadist part of me. It is about power, command and wanton cruelty. There is a part of me that immerses in using someone else as my toy. Not just their body but their heart and mind. I know that I'm the one that did the sensual domination stuff but that is another part of me. It does tie together though.

To get inside the mind of the other person, to learn them intimately is in itself interesting and enjoyable. Then to twist them around a bit, to make them see and think what I want them to. There is power in that, control. Once you are deeply inside the mind of the other person then you can use their body as you see fit. You can induce pleasure and shame at the same time. You can make them feel conflicting things and take pleasure in the fact that they love you for it and would do anything for you.

To dominate the other person completely, to feel the sense of power that comes from within when you bend someone to your will. Many say that it is the gift given freely by the sub to her master and while there is some truth in that, once the control is given to me she is mine. This doesn't mean that I will ruin her. She will grow in strength every day. I will break her down and remake her over and over.

RJ, you have a background in martial arts. Didn't you find a sense of power and control when you had your opponent in pain and helpless?

Martial arts is a controlled arena though, much like a BDSM scene. For me the true sadist comes out on the street. In a streetfight where I can put all control aside and fully release that hungry part of me. It's strange to talk about but in that place I lose coherency of thought. There is a ravenous hunger for destruction and no morals at all. I can liken the feeling only really to what novels describe as the extremely erotic act of a vampire sucking a victim dry of life. To see the blood and hear the thick sound of a rib cracking under my knee. To feel the twist and pop of a joint dislocating. It is an undescribable feeling of hunger, lust and power.
I am going to chew on this for a bit...thanks B good stuff.
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"How beautiful is the song the birds make when I do hear their woes of
monthly toil. Adorned with such colorful shame let their cheeks be flush
as their boosoms are plucked in thier tenderness like ripen fruit. Laciviousness
of a dirty womb makes me heady like one who has taken too much drink."

~C.M~ you do a very skilled job of walking the fine line between being a mean, evil, horrid man, and a fucking bastard...
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Old 10-29-2004, 02:53 PM   #6
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I find that pain opens people up, the altered states of pain are, like orgasm or drunkenness great removers of inhibition.

I feel very cold and removed sometimes, sometimes I enjoy getting in touch with the part of me that *can do violence* and not break a sweat -- remember girls are not encouraged to be like that in any arena, we don't have a battlefield or a ring to duke it all out in. It makes me feel alive and powerful not to feel, as much as a good masochistic outing can put me back into touch with feeling alive from giving in to suffering. It's quite the mental hard on to hit a screaming person again.

It does delight me when a lover becomes my own personal martyr. It's sick, blasphemous and twisted, but it's hot to no end to me. M has such a saintly sweetness in pain, G such a noble enduring, I hurt people to make them even more beautiful to me.
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Old 10-29-2004, 03:30 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Netzach
I find that pain opens people up, the altered states of pain are, like orgasm or drunkenness great removers of inhibition.

I feel very cold and removed sometimes, sometimes I enjoy getting in touch with the part of me that *can do violence* and not break a sweat -- remember girls are not encouraged to be like that in any arena, we don't have a battlefield or a ring to duke it all out in. It makes me feel alive and powerful not to feel, as much as a good masochistic outing can put me back into touch with feeling alive from giving in to suffering. It's quite the mental hard on to hit a screaming person again.

It does delight me when a lover becomes my own personal martyr. It's sick, blasphemous and twisted, but it's hot to no end to me. M has such a saintly sweetness in pain, G such a noble enduring, I hurt people to make them even more beautiful to me.
Ty N

You have such a strong mind and hit me from angles I never think about.

The one thing you said though at the beggining...
-------------
I find that pain opens people up, the altered states of pain are, like orgasm or drunkenness great removers of inhibition.
-------------
.....have been words I have been trying to say for a long time. Some people do not understand when I say I sometimes I use scenes which are designed to help someone over come something they are struggling with and its often too hard for them to face sober. When they break thru, and reach this altered state of mind, I can then help them to put the missing peices together, tear down barriers and let go of things held onto for too long which have been damaging. The important thing is to take them there, then let them deal with stuff, knowing you are right there to help them.

definately not your normal scening experience.

Sorry to switch gears on ya N, but ty

My favorite part of your post was when you said:

"It's quite the mental hard on to hit a screaming person again."

And this I want to think about, though I relate to what you mean

"I hurt people to make them even more beautiful to me"
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"How beautiful is the song the birds make when I do hear their woes of
monthly toil. Adorned with such colorful shame let their cheeks be flush
as their boosoms are plucked in thier tenderness like ripen fruit. Laciviousness
of a dirty womb makes me heady like one who has taken too much drink."

~C.M~ you do a very skilled job of walking the fine line between being a mean, evil, horrid man, and a fucking bastard...
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Old 10-29-2004, 03:37 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Netzach
It's sick, blasphemous and twisted, but it's hot to no end. I hurt people to make them even more beautiful to me.
That is going to be something I will quote over and over. Every beautiful person I see this weekend I will imagine them in agony. It's going to be a long week.
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Old 10-29-2004, 06:14 PM   #9
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One of the many reasons I like to make people suffer is the triumphant "and now I whip out my cock and piss you you" feeling of sheer Mr. Hyde vengeance it gives me.
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Old 10-29-2004, 06:31 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by rosco rathbone
One of the many reasons I like to make people suffer is the triumphant "and now I whip out my cock and piss you you" feeling of sheer Mr. Hyde vengeance it gives me.
such beautiful simplicity
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Old 10-29-2004, 06:54 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by rosco rathbone
One of the many reasons I like to make people suffer is the triumphant "and now I whip out my cock and piss you you" feeling of sheer Mr. Hyde vengeance it gives me.
Hey RR, Heehee

So you lay down the hammer and nothing left but the smiles eh?

Just one question. The "Mr. Hyde vengeance" does that mean your Dr Jekel up to a point the BOOM surprise? Or just straight up first foot in the room and Hyde is home?
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"How beautiful is the song the birds make when I do hear their woes of
monthly toil. Adorned with such colorful shame let their cheeks be flush
as their boosoms are plucked in thier tenderness like ripen fruit. Laciviousness
of a dirty womb makes me heady like one who has taken too much drink."

~C.M~ you do a very skilled job of walking the fine line between being a mean, evil, horrid man, and a fucking bastard...
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Old 10-29-2004, 06:57 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by RJMasters
Hey RR, Heehee

So you lay down the hammer and nothing left but the smiles eh?

Just one question. The "Mr. Hyde vengeance" does that mean your Dr Jekel up to a point the BOOM surprise? Or just straight up first foot in the room and Hyde is home?
Dude, I am Jeckyll 99.99% of the time. That's why my Hyde is so vengeful. And he pops out willy nilly.
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Old 10-29-2004, 07:14 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by rosco rathbone
And he pops out willy nilly.
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Old 10-29-2004, 07:20 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by rosco rathbone
Dude, I am Jeckyll 99.99% of the time. That's why my Hyde is so vengeful. And he pops out willy nilly.


Thanks
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"How beautiful is the song the birds make when I do hear their woes of
monthly toil. Adorned with such colorful shame let their cheeks be flush
as their boosoms are plucked in thier tenderness like ripen fruit. Laciviousness
of a dirty womb makes me heady like one who has taken too much drink."

~C.M~ you do a very skilled job of walking the fine line between being a mean, evil, horrid man, and a fucking bastard...
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Old 10-30-2004, 12:18 AM   #15
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an admission

I just keep struggling with this concept.

I don't even know where to begin in my explanations.

For me, it seems most of you are referring to physical pain. Betticus almost began down to the path to emotional pain, but not quite to where my mind went to first.

If I had to choose a way to be hurt...I would pick the emotional pain first every time....every single time. But at the same time that I find myself swimming in that pain, I find myself enjoying using that same pain against another person.

I have acquired skill in this area easily...I love knowing my words wound and my interactions can slice into another person's soul with ease. It gives me a sense of superiority...not necessarily control per se, because control is not what I really want, but a sense of...greatness within myself. Very empowering to know I can make a grown man cry and beg me not to hurt him any more without even touching him...without even seeing him. To see the pain in person can be even more exhilirating. My only downfall is that I am a very caring person, and guilt at my past actions tend to inhibit future ones.

So to that end, I can understand sadism.

But when it comes to the physical arena....I am in the dark....not understanding it from either the side of the fist.
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Old 10-30-2004, 01:09 AM   #16
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...slipping quietly from the thread...

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Old 10-30-2004, 01:57 AM   #17
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Ok, here's what I think about sadism and masochism.

Back, when things were less 'civilized' humans operated a lot more on instinct. Their were two instincts. One was to protect, conquer and control. The other was to be protected, conquered and controled. At the time generally the first was male, the second female, but things change.

The second one (I'm going to use woman for this, cause it's easier than keeping this PC), needed to be protected. Now men will sleep with anyone, but not necessarily protect her. For him to protect her he had to feel that she was 'his' and then he would by nature control her, by whatever ways necessary. So the woman knew that she was safe, loved when her mate was controlling and protective. I think (and this is just my ideas, so don't jump down my throat if you disagree) that BDSMers, whether they know that's what they are or not, are just a little more in tune with their instincts.

Now as to sadism and masochism. As stated before sadism is another way of control. The sadist enjoys it because if sates their instinct to control. The masochist enjoys it because it sates their need to be controlled.

I think that sadism and masochism are also environment. I don't know about sadists, or other masochists, but I was physically abused as a child. I think that at some point I learned, in my early mind, to associate pain with love. The person who loved me most also caused me pain. I also learned, later on, about the release that pain gave me. It's a very well known fact that when you're in pain your body releases endorphins that are mood altering. As stated before I would bite myself and claw myself. And my innocent sexual fantasy's all involved pain and domination, too.

I could have responded by hurting, by feeling that this was the way to show love, but that's not me. Maybe that's where sadism comes from.

Just as a post note, but this is just an idea. I know that there are always exceptions to every rule, and that things might be differently for other people. This is just what I think. *shrugs*
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Old 10-30-2004, 10:23 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by graceanne
The sadist enjoys it because if sates their instinct to control. The masochist enjoys it because it sates their need to be controlled.
When ever someone says..don't jump down my throat...I wonder what motivates them to say that.

I found your prehistoric perspective interesting and different.


The sadist enjoys it because if sates their instinct to control. The masochist enjoys it because it sates their need to be controlled.


Prolly true, but isn't that up for added discussion? I think control might only be a small part of the sadist psyche, and I am hoping to be further enlightened. I know what it means to me, and I am interested in knowing what others say.

ty graceanne
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"How beautiful is the song the birds make when I do hear their woes of
monthly toil. Adorned with such colorful shame let their cheeks be flush
as their boosoms are plucked in thier tenderness like ripen fruit. Laciviousness
of a dirty womb makes me heady like one who has taken too much drink."

~C.M~ you do a very skilled job of walking the fine line between being a mean, evil, horrid man, and a fucking bastard...
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Old 10-30-2004, 10:37 PM   #19
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So I have been told that my response here was an announcement that I am a Domme...I said WHAT THE FUCK?

Lemme ask this...

Does being a sadist, or having sadistic abilities mean you are a Dom/me?

Does being a masochist or having masochistic tendancies mean you are a sub?

Have I missed something here?

WHat if you have both?
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Old 10-30-2004, 10:54 PM   #20
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Re: an admission

Quote:
Originally posted by InnerDarkness
I just keep struggling with this concept.

I don't even know where to begin in my explanations.

For me, it seems most of you are referring to physical pain. Betticus almost began down to the path to emotional pain, but not quite to where my mind went to first.

If I had to choose a way to be hurt...I would pick the emotional pain first every time....every single time. But at the same time that I find myself swimming in that pain, I find myself enjoying using that same pain against another person.

I have acquired skill in this area easily...I love knowing my words wound and my interactions can slice into another person's soul with ease. It gives me a sense of superiority...not necessarily control per se, because control is not what I really want, but a sense of...greatness within myself. Very empowering to know I can make a grown man cry and beg me not to hurt him any more without even touching him...without even seeing him. To see the pain in person can be even more exhilirating. My only downfall is that I am a very caring person, and guilt at my past actions tend to inhibit future ones.

So to that end, I can understand sadism.

But when it comes to the physical arena....I am in the dark....not understanding it from either the side of the fist.
Decided to quote this post having just read your second post about now being told you have announced yourself as a Domme.

In a non-sexual context I think understand your comments on inflicting emotional pain.

I don't inflict emotional pain, but playing mind fuck games is a favourite activity of mine in nilla life.

I enjoy knowing I can be teasing, amusing (matter of opinion on that one), say outrageous things with a smile, or led someone into a situation where verbally they end up in a DEEP hole or tied in knots.

Its less of the power thing and more of an achievement thing for me.
As I have got older I do not play so much making it all the more fun when i do

Which makes my submission to Him all the more meaningful, I can't submit to someone who cannot verbally get the better of me.

I know that means in r/l I would have to submit to 99.9% of you but in r/l the odds are different.

IT do you ever switch?
Have you ever been a Domme and what di you think of it.

I ask because I have never considered being a Domme yet people who know me in 'nilla life, given the choice would make me Domme not sub.

Yes I did ask some work collegues, not as an isolated topic but as a general topic about what people may be like out of work. No I did not tell them just laughed and said would bring in the thigh highs and cane next time!
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Old 10-30-2004, 11:09 PM   #21
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Hey shy...thanks for the response.
You sound a lot like me

Yeah..part of it is achievement... a "look what I can do" kind of a thing. Part of it is that I like pain on my end, and I also like being able to inflict that pain on others as well. It really is about me...not me in the context of being with another person in a role, but just about me...and me only. MY achievement and MY sense of self within myself...I know that sounds weird.

As for ever trying to be Domme or switching...not sure. I know I have SOME issues of control that I have discussed with someone before, but it isn't enough for me to want to fully make that switch...even if for just one night.

In real life...I control everything...I am the boss at work, I run the house...I DO Domme the cats as much as they let me...I admit that LOL....but yeah...ask my co-workers and they think I weild the whip, too.

I just dont understand why some peopl think a sub can't want to hurt someone else...
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Old 10-30-2004, 11:15 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by InnerDarkness

In real life...I control everything...I am the boss at work, I run the house...I DO Domme the cats as much as they let me...I admit that LOL....but yeah...ask my co-workers and they think I weild the whip, too.
let me clarify "real life"....to me...I mean life outside of a sexual context
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Old 10-30-2004, 11:34 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by InnerDarkness
let me clarify "real life"....to me...I mean life outside of a sexual context
You sure your not me

Oh wait I don't have cats you can't be

I was worried for a minute thought i had ended up a schizophrenic lol

Sorry in advance I know its not a laughing problem
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Old 10-30-2004, 11:36 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by shy slave
You sure your not me

Oh wait I don't have cats you can't be

I was worried for a minute thought i had ended up a schizophrenic lol

Sorry in advance I know its not a laughing problem
EDITED to clarify

I meant I know schizophrenia is not a laughing problem not being inner darkness *sigh*
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Old 10-30-2004, 11:37 PM   #25
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heheh...it's okay...

I could use a good laugh...

turns out my original post is causing more waves than I intended it to.

*sigh*

T'is my life!
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