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Old 12-05-2017, 04:49 PM   #26
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I'm sure people who know you well or close to you would completely disagree to you having "less-than-attractive personality traits".

Don't be so hard on yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by littlecordelera View Post
I said I had "less-than-attractive personality traits."

Me? With less-than-attractive personality traits?

LOL!!!

I swear! Sometimes I kill myself!
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Old 12-05-2017, 07:49 PM   #27
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I have decided to become a sign language interpreter for Tampa, FL.

No knowledge of sign language is required.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvNPKwz4Ghw
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Old 12-05-2017, 07:51 PM   #28
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I think there is something missing from this conversation if ultimately the question is "what style of career will provide the greatest happiness and contentment in life?" and that is of passion.

What are your passions, your hobbies? What activity provides joy in your life? Then work out how to make a living from that.

Such a career may not necessarily free you of stress or anxiety but might bring on more smiles.
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Old 12-05-2017, 08:36 PM   #29
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If you have children, and want to educate them, there's not much wiggle room in the decision box.
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Old 12-05-2017, 10:19 PM   #30
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I am the son of a very skilled blue collar guy who made a comfortable living as a printer after WWII. Before that he was a Merchant Marine, and is the son of a son of a son of sailor. My grandfather survived 3 sinkings running to Russia in WWII.

Blue collar and fulfilling are not mutually exclusive, especially in skilled trades. The world still needs plumbers, stone masons, electricians and such. These are the people who get things done correctly despite bad engineering by frat boys.
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Old 12-06-2017, 02:41 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littlecordelera View Post
Oh, yes. The ole flow model diagram, where Bubble 1 points to either Bubble 2 or 3 but never directly to Bubble 4.

It's a good thing.
Yup, that's a major error!

There should be a nice fat phallic arrow pointing along the middle zone saying "work it this way, baby!"
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Old 12-06-2017, 06:53 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cumference View Post
Yup, that's a major error!

There should be a nice fat phallic arrow pointing along the middle zone saying "work it this way, baby!"
Come to think of it, good flow does usually indicate a job well done.
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Old 12-06-2017, 09:08 AM   #33
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I feel the mark of success is do you have time to do what you
really want to do?

My ambitions are not very glamorous. I just want to feed the
birds and squirrels. Time to make friends of the crows.

Do you have time to do what you really want?










"I'm scared to meet you!" Well you bloody should be, that's a wise decision.
Badder than Old King Kong, Meaner than a Junkyard dog!"

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Last edited by bigmane : 12-06-2017 at 01:28 PM.
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Old 12-06-2017, 03:28 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmane View Post
I feel the mark of success is do you have time to do what you
really want to do?

My ambitions are not very glamorous. I just want to feed the
birds and squirrels. Time to make friends of the crows.

Do you have time to do what you really want?
Is there a way to draw a paycheck for feeding the birds and the squirrels?

There's an old movie in which Bill Murray is "a free man, licensed by the government of the United Nations to kill gophers," but I've never heard of anyone getting paid to feed squirrels. Might you supply me with a job application?
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Old 12-06-2017, 03:35 PM   #35
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Haha!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by littlecordelera View Post
I have decided to become a sign language interpreter for Tampa, FL.

No knowledge of sign language is required.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvNPKwz4Ghw
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Old 12-07-2017, 03:52 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littlecordelera View Post
...but I've never heard of anyone getting paid to feed squirrels.
I suppose it would depend on who, or what, they were feeding the squirrels to.
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Old 12-07-2017, 07:56 AM   #37
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Quote:
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I suppose it would depend on who, or what, they were feeding the squirrels to.
LOL!!
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Old 12-07-2017, 09:52 PM   #38
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Excellent discussion and points of view. I have a white collar job and work long hours. I am passionate about my work and am surrounded by a wonderful team of people who work independently and who I trust.

But....my family wants me home more and I feel guilty about being a workaholic.

It is a balancing act. I am very happy at work...and at home.....and sometimes I cheat one to boost the other.....nothing is perfect!
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Old 12-07-2017, 10:12 PM   #39
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There is virtually zero correlation (r=0) between money and happiness provided that your most basic needs are met (Maslow's physiological and safety needs). Trust me, I have experimented with myself over the years and although extra money is nice it is amazing just how happy we can be without much of anything.

Consider the fact that most of what we spend our money on is "stuff" that really is not necessary. So if we make better choices and waste less money we are not required to work as much and expose ourselves to as much stress. Prolonged exposure to stress is horrendously debilitating - do some research. Of course the power-elite have programmed us (government schools, news, movies, etc.) to believe we are free while we work like slaves to buy more "stuff" while they enjoy the profits from both sides of the coin. The profit from our labor and from us purchasing more useless "stuff."

Money will never be able to buy true happiness - I have never met a single person who is older and regrets spending too much time with their loves ones. They all regret spending too much time working though. Break free and taste true freedom...
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Old 12-07-2017, 11:09 PM   #40
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My wife and I are basically pretty frugal. She asked if she could be a full time stay at home mom even though she has a Master's degree. I agreed and we have lived on one salary. Money doesn't buy happiness but it does pay for braces on both kids (at the same time), wisdom teeth extractions (again, both kids at the same time), a decent house, food on the table, car repairs, and a list of other things. I just had almost $2,000 in dental work done this week alone.

Part of what enables us to live on one income is that my income is relatively decent given that I don't have a degree, so I do think it's important to consider earning potential when deciding how to pursue one's passions. In addition to personal spending habits and the stresses that come with money and debts, money regularly wreaks havoc in romantic relationships. The fact that my wife is a very thrifty person, and has modest tastes is very helpful for living on one income. So, I would also suggest considering how one's spouse handles money (spender v/s saver).

My firstborn managed to secure a full ride scholarship, but my second will be lucky to get much of anything. He has the aptitude to do well in college, but is also very mechanically inclined and would do well in the trades. Even technical school would give him a good start on a career, but those also can carry a hefty price tag anymore.

My advice to my kids has been to consider the kind of lifestyle they want to live at a minimum level, and then figure out which of their options support that lifestyle. I tell them that they will undoubtedly underestimate how much money it takes to live that lifestyle, and perhaps overestimate how happy they'll be living it. I tell them that the only plan that they will be absolutely guaranteed not to follow is the plan that they've made, but that it's important to have a plan anyway so they can include planning ahead.

Finally, I have learned that learning to say 'no' can make the difference between misery and happiness. Whether it's saying no to the boss who wants overtime, no to volunteering when I am over committed, and in other parts of my life. I have a challenging job that can be stressful, but being able to say 'no' and maintain healthy boundaries is helpful.

I don't know how much of that is relevant to your situation and the choice you need to make, but I hope it helps.
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Old 12-07-2017, 11:26 PM   #41
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I've done both. I never wanted to work in an office, and did as much pre-vocational education in high school as I could up until the end of year ten - which was when it was politely pointed out during senior subject selection counselling that yes, I might be doing quite well in Home Economics and Agriculture but I had brains! It was apparently time to think about getting serious, doing serious subjects and preparing for university.

My part-time after school job was supposed to be in a deli but I ended up working back dock because I hate people, like organising things, and enjoy moving around. While working I sampled both university (law/arts) and TAFE (professional cookery) but neither worked out for me. The latter was because of the uncontrolled sexism and some pretty shitty behaviour by 'men' in the class who would grab me on the arse every time I bent down to put something in an oven. I quit after one of the teachers invited me to do a full striptease for the boys, and thought perhaps white collar was a safer choice. The head of the course agreed I would be 'more suited to being a receptionist or something'.

For a while I worked for a collections/PI company run by a dodgy ex-cop. That was fun, but stressful for the obvious reasons. They ended up going belly-up. I had a child young, then ended up working in an office. Did a degree part time while working and worked up to some semblance of a career.

I fucking hate office work with a passion. I hate the polyester clothing, high heels, frigid air con, sitting all day, workplace politics and travel.

I quite my job recently and have gone to work for my husband (tradesman, has a small company) as half office lady/half apprentice. I've been helping him on an ad hoc basis for years, but this time I get to learn how to use the exciting machinery and tools lol. I get paid comparatively well but that's because I'm the wife, and work doesn't stop at 5pm. I have really noticeable tan lines despite prodigious applications of sunscreen. I stand out because I'm a woman. And we're still not - and won't ever be - rolling in money, but I grew up poor for a chunk of my life, so having food and clothing and the mortgage paid is 'wealthy' to me. I'm also studying part time, in my husband's field, which I'm quite liking.
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Old 12-08-2017, 07:05 AM   #42
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I absolutely agree that money is not the source of happiness. That's why I am having this debate with myself. I am beginning to wonder if the blue collar world is not the more "balanced" place to be.

I grew up poor. My father is blue collar, at the low end of the wage scale, and even with all the challenges he's had in his life, one thing is for sure - he's happy! He works his day, comes home, pops open a beer, and works leisurely in his garden. His evenings are stress free and relaxing, whereas for me, work is almost constantly on my mind because the pace and the demands are unrelenting.

However, I love my work, the actual work itself. It is challenging and cerebral and unique, and I hate the thought of giving it up. But my clients are large organizations, and they are like the most demanding and stupid spoiled brats you've ever seen in your life! They pay me to think, and so they don't. That is really, honestly, how it works.

Maybe I'm trying to be happy all the time. I don't know. I don't think so. No one gets through this life without problems. I'm just wondering if one can get through this life without so much stress.
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Old 12-08-2017, 07:17 AM   #43
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And by the way, we had gotten in the habit of buying a lot of "stuff." We recognized it some months ago, and we are now being more knowledgeable of our purchases and waste in general. We've been the quintessential consumers. That has stopped, and we are moving toward becoming much greener and returning to our roots. My husband and I, both, grew up working in our parents' gardens, doing yard work, and getting our hands dirty. We're going back to that.
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Old 12-08-2017, 08:03 AM   #44
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I have two kids 25 and 29, my wife and I both have white collar jobs and do well in our field. Both of us have college diplomas.

We had a deal with our kids that we would fund four years of post secondary education, they would have to contribute, but would finish school debt free.

My son did university for a year and half, hated it and quit. He had worked in kitchens during high school and uni, he went to work FT as a cook, worked ridiculous hours for low pay but is now a head chef with his own restaurant in the chain he works for, makes close to $100k. Blue collar

My daughter did two semesters, hated it. Came to work for the company my wife and I work for in a clerical role, has risen to a low level mgmt position, makes $55k or so. If she chooses to, she can do significant education through work and advance through our company. White collar

My parents were both educated, my Dad was a teacher and my Mom was a parttime RN, we grew up comfortable but had no real luxuries as children.

My Dad gave my son good advice when he quit university. Imagine you live in Communist Russia and all jobs may the same, what would you choose to do? My son without any real hesitation said cooking. My Dad said become the best cook you can be and the money will take care of itself.

The only caution I would say to a young person taking on a physically demanding blue collar career is have a plan to get off the tools as you get older, many trades are VERY hard on the body.
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Old 12-12-2017, 06:50 AM   #45
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I know a couple, both raised in the north woods. She earned an MA; he barely finished high school. Moving to a big city, they staged illegal raves; red collar? He attended culinary school and became a VERY successful executive chef; blue collar. Physical impairment drove him out. They both got realtor's papers, and he a broker's ticket; white collar. Now she runs a brokerage, white collar, and he's a licensed cultivator; green collar?

Collars come in more colors than blue and white.
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Old 12-12-2017, 04:40 PM   #46
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Collars come in more colors than blue and white.
No doubt about that! You ought to see my closet!
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