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Old 11-29-2017, 01:34 AM   #1
FutureFiction
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The Perfect Erotic Story?

I started this thread to have a discussion about idealism and the future of storytelling.

Perfection (within the realm of art and fiction) is mostly perception. Itís something thatís in the mind of the reader. My idea of the perfect Literotica story is something that doesnít exist in this world. Itís something that could be described as a theoretical possibility in the future, or it could be something from another reality where interactive fiction is more prevalent, and Chyoo 5.0 (not 3.0) is up and running in 2017 with more active readers and writers than the main site.

Some writers strive for perfection by trying to be original and unpredictable, or by thinking about things like their fan base, logical consistency, or scientific and historical accuracy. Writers can strive for perfection, but I think itís impossible for a story to be perfect (especially erotic stories) if itís not at least partially interactive or modifiable.

I have a habit of using my imagination to reject and modify some of things that I see and hear when Iím watching a movie, reading a novel, or listing to music. I have a list of rules and expectations in my mind for the stories that I read and watch. I use my imagination to change what Iím seeing and hearing if the plot of a story makes a small deviation from what I want to see. But the imaginary changes donít work if there are too many deviations from what I would prefer to see and hear.

On a website like Literotica that could mean changing the words that a writer used to describe the physical appearance of a character. I have a long list of ideal bodily shapes, sizes, and colors for different characters and situations. So depending on the story it could mean changing the words big to small, short to tall, pale to tanned, brunette to blond, or the opposite. The imaginary changes work as long as I donít keep seeing the opposite of what I want to see in every paragraph.

Iím limited to my imagination in 2017, but every time I see a work of fiction, I dream about a future where artificial intelligence and other technologies will make most of the work of human writers obsolete, and all forms of entertainment or storytelling will be interactive and completely customizable to suit the individual viewer or user. So for futuristic and non-existent websites like Chyoo 7.0, humans would create the templates or the foundations of different stories, while improved forms of AI (narrow or maybe general) would modify and expand to the storylines in different ways that are ideal for the readers.

I think the changes that I described would definitely be an improvement over the current way of doing things, where you basically have to hope that a writer thinks the way you think, and likes the things you like. It may be common to find a writer that shares some of your sexual desires, but out of all of the stories that I read on Literotica, there are few where the characters and the plots are close to one of my ideal fantasies. There are several stories that I like, but itís the little things that can ruin or change a great story (4.5 or higher) to a moderately enjoyable story. For me, it could be as simple as something like a protagonist that regularly sleeps in the nude. Iím a bit of a germaphobe. So the scenario makes me think about the trace amounts of fecal matter on the bed sheets, which ruins my immersive connection to the protagonist.

As a heterosexual male with an interest in virtual reality and immersive stories, the first thing that I search for before I decide to read a story is the authorís sexual orientation, (I prefer stories that are written by straight males), story tags that match the scenarios and physical appearances that I like, and if the story is told from a 1st person point of view. I donít have any voyeuristic or transsexual male to female fantasies, therefore I would prefer if all of the erotic stories that I read are told from a male 1st person POV. I donít like non 1st person narration in erotic fiction. And I donít want to know exactly whatís going on in the mind of a female unless itís a Sci-Fi scenario that involves futuristic technologies like brain to computer and brain to brain interfaces. When Iím reading an erotic story I want to become one with a male protagonist. I donít think about the fact that the author is male. (I would prefer a female voice if a story was read to me) I just think about being one with the protagonist.

The other things that I look for when Iím choosing the stories that I want to read are a combination of things like statistical improbabilities, realistic or plausible scenarios, and authors that donít expect their readers to suspend their disbelief. I hate fantasy, but I love science fiction. I want to feel like I could actually be experiencing the things in the stories that I read and watch. People regularly complain about unrealistic beauty or the unrealistic size of breasts or penises in stories, but itís not always unrealistic if you think about large sample sizes or the law of large numbers.

Writing a story that takes place in a small town of less than 1000 people where all of the characters that engage in sexual activity have huge breasts and huge penises could be described as unrealistic. But itís probably not unrealistic if you increase the sample size to a metropolis of over 5 million people. Especially if itís a city with a lot of genetic diversity.

I enjoy stories about statistical improbabilities having sex with other statistical improbabilities. Thereís nothing unrealistic about it if you take a moment to think about the numbers and the plausibility of the scenarios. I like fictional characters that possess unusual objective measures of beauty like symmetry and healthy skin. I usually have no desire to watch or think about average looking people in the fictional worlds of porn or erotic fiction.

So whatís your idea of the perfect erotic story? And what do you think is the future of storytelling?
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Old 11-29-2017, 01:43 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by FutureFiction View Post
but I think itís impossible for a story to be perfect (especially erotic stories) if itís not at least partially interactive or modifiable.
OK, I read this far and then stopped. If a story is modified it becomes a different story and, in any event, you've flipped outside the same world that "perfection" would live in here for everyone at this point anyway. The definition of "perfection" in a story wouldn't be limited by "it's impossible if not interactive or modifiable" in my world, so I'll leave you to yours. I'm sure what you're working there is interesting for you, and that's fine.

(Incidentally, it's not tossed out as a possibility to be perfect in my world either if it isn't a heterosexual story. And one of the marvelous things about fiction is that there isn't a universal "perfect" ruling anything.)
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Old 11-29-2017, 02:30 AM   #3
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OK, I read this far and then stopped. If a story is modified it becomes a different story and, in any event, you've flipped outside the same world that "perfection" would live in here for everyone at this point anyway.
I think about artistic or literary perfection in the same way that a person might think about diminishing returns, or approaching absolute zero, or accelerating to the speed of light. There is no perfect 5.0 literotica story in my mind. The best thing that a writer could hope for is 4.99. But my chances of finding a story where the authorís desires, personality, and worldviews are in near perfect alignment with my own could be less than one in a million. People usually write about things that they enjoy, unless theyíre being paid to create something else. And as good as a story is, if it is long enough you will eventually find something that you donít like.

Anyway, I think artificial intelligence and interactive fiction (novels, movies) is the way of the future. Modifiable entertainment is my idea of perfection.
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Old 11-29-2017, 02:52 AM   #4
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Sorry, I find it hard to take seriously someone pontificating on the perfectly written story and on how ratings should be given who shows no evidence of writing stories. In writing terms we call this show, not tell, and take it as a goal.

My view of a perfect story critiquer is one who can back up their views with perfect story writing themselves.
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Old 11-29-2017, 04:18 AM   #5
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As a writer, your list of prescriptive requirements (they're not desirements because you want to change so many things in the source material) is, frankly, so bizarre that I wonder how you get enjoyment out of material here at all.

Your stance, ultimately, denies writers their own creativity and makes you the reader the most important part of the relationship - whereas it's actually the other way around.

Writers generally write what they want to write because they're either exploring their inner world (I'm an example of that) or they're catering to a broad audience. Readers get on board those trains, and it's the writer's creativity they follow. Especially if they don't / can't write themselves.

But your expectations? Start writing, sunshine, coz I doubt you'll get many people on-board with your model.

It's like denying the Mona Lisa isn't quite exquisite because you're right handed and Leonardo was left handed. Or the statue of David is somehow flawed because you want his cock to be a little longer and the next person wants it a little shorter. But hey, Michelangelo wanted it just as he carved it. It's his statue, not yours.

An interesting speculation, but you ain't going to convince this little bunny to relinquish control of the words I put on my page.
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Old 11-29-2017, 04:31 AM   #6
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From what you say, I can sell a box with 9,000 words in it and you can assemble your own 3 Lit page story with it.

That sure saves me all that typing and thinking and sweating over plots.

I wonder if I should charge by the word? Of course, the's, a's, and buts, would be free. Maybe i should throw in a few extra t's for making buts into butts.
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Old 11-29-2017, 06:13 AM   #7
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My first thought was it'd be fascinating to listen to you and William Gibson having a conversation. I think that what you're describing is less about writing and more about a virtual reality immersive experience with some sort of AI interactive either the reader/viewers mind. Not sure how far away that is but whatever it is it doesn't really relate to writing the way we know it now. Quite a fascinating obcept though and it's make an interesting SF story. A la William Gibson?
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Old 11-29-2017, 07:07 AM   #8
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My response to the question at the end of the post is that there is no such thing as a perfect story, and that the quest for a perfect story, as defined by the OP, is a misguided quest. The OP's concept of a perfect story involves an idea of a reader that is passive and static. In this model, the reader is just a consumer, and the best or most "perfect" story is the story that best suits the reader's existing tastes.

We all have our own tastes, and I like having mine satisfied as much as the next guy, but for me the ideal relationship between reader and writer is more interactive. I like to read something that pushes the bounds of my tastes, that exposes me to something new. The "best" story is one that appeals to me and my tastes but also takes me somewhere I haven't been before, that changes me a little.

I suspect the OP is correct that in the future AI will play a larger role in the writing of stories, but I envision a future in which storytelling and reading is a more interactive process -- something like the Interactives in Neil Stephenson's The Diamond Age. Two or more people will come together in a software-created medium and create stories together. This already is happening in video games, and chat rooms, and web cams, etc., but as the software and hardware get better the experience will become more immersive.

I can imagine this site doing more to aid in the creation of "perfect" story by offering more tools to collect and analyze the data that is embedded in the hundreds of thousands of stories that are here. Writers could use that data to understand reader preferences better and write stories with a better sense of the erotic niches that they are trying to fill. But whatever tools are available, I doubt perfection will ever be attainable, and that's a good thing.
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Old 11-29-2017, 07:10 AM   #9
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I prefer stories with strong characters, but the gender and sexual persuasions of those characters are irrelevant. Some fetish stuff is a bit too far for me, but hey, I write femdom on occasion so who am I to speak?
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Old 11-29-2017, 08:28 AM   #10
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I believe there is an underground of simple, unembellished writers, as myself, who have the compunction to write. Those of us that have stories that must get out of our minds and hearts.

I fail to see how aligning with AI will accomplish that goal, or will satisfy my deep, personal need to create.
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Old 11-29-2017, 08:34 AM   #11
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Perfection is a relative concept. Also, perfection is a lie, and a bad one at that. To be perfect is to be unable to improve further, which to me sounds impossible. No matter what, you can always become better.
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Old 11-29-2017, 08:38 AM   #12
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Post #4 nails it.

OP: TL/DR.
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Old 11-29-2017, 08:47 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FutureFiction View Post
Iím limited to my imagination in 2017, but every time I see a work of fiction, I dream about a future where artificial intelligence and other technologies will make most of the work of human writers obsolete, and all forms of entertainment or storytelling will be interactive and completely customizable to suit the individual viewer or user.
This already exists. It's called "a blank page and a keyboard".
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Old 11-29-2017, 09:03 AM   #14
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I don't think human beings are capable of accepting perfection. We would get bored with it. Once you read the "perfect" story or experience the "perfect" virtual reality a dozen or so times, you will start craving something else.

You may find something you think is perfect, or near perfect, but it won't last. Eventually you'll want a new experience.

As for what I want in a story, it changes with every story I read.
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Old 11-29-2017, 11:05 AM   #15
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I fail to see how aligning with AI will accomplish that goal, or will satisfy my deep, personal need to create.
Exactly. I think the OP is looking at it from the POV of the perfect reader experience, where the reader has their desires met. As a writer, I have a story I want to tell that's in MY head, not the readers. I try and share that story but it may or may not capture the readers imagination. That's as may be, because my objective is to. Apture the story that's in my head in words. How the reader interprets that is entirely subjective and may not be at all the way I intended.

When you look at AI and virtual reality and interaction, that's all about the subjects personal desires, unique to that individual. That's nothing to do with writing a story to share, it's more of a higher quality individual fantasy.
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Old 11-29-2017, 12:13 PM   #16
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Jesus Christ!

For a start I find myself once again having to agree with the sled-driver.

Who is this - the OP - Mark Zuckerberg?!

Mark the essence of story-writing for other people to enjoy is in the ability to deal in a two-way-street (of relationship/s), not in a 'what I want what I want what I want' thing ONLY (which is not to say we don't understand that a POV handles someone's own original desires certainly and that this is the lynch-pin for some group of readers' interest).

And yet, I don't utterly fail to understand you 'completely' - yes, you have a point about the modern world, and let's say, the advanced world and the future world and that technology and data capture and archiving does provide the technical capacity to give people a vast range of choice where previously there was by comparison NONE AT ALL.

You're talking about 'the perfect REWARD' - as perceived by a reader seeking such - from a story though, not 'the perfect STORY.'

And this takes us to a moot point:

is 'the reward' going to come from having everything fulfilled ONLY from our own singular perspective, or do we end up requiring there to be a fully-sentient, self-agent at the other end WHO DELIBERATELY AND VOLUNTARILY COMPLIES WITH OUR DESIRES, instead of mechanically just 'fulfills' the actions of them?

And in this light I am going to raise something I think not that people know (not in critical detail, anyway) - if you really want the absolute best fantasy (including sex) fiction, Muhammad, the writer of the Koran was so far out there it doesn't matter that there even ever was a Philip K. Dick later on, or an L. Sprague de Camp.

Muhammad has this idea about a very futuristic 'Paradise' (and he even couches it in terms of 'the future' and 'advanced things we do not have today'), in which there are huge fairs (markets) in which you walk through, and where there are stalls containing 'images' of sexy people of all kinds, and when you want to have sex with one of them, you select the 'image' and you yourself go into it and the thing becomes alive and fulfills your desire...

Those intellectual critics who read Arabic and are not themselves Muslim, have regularly queried whether or not this was a kind of masturbatory vision about sex only, kind of like with mechanical automatons, rather than with real people.

And so I would also question whether someone who starts off from your standpoint, is not going to end up looking for another living independent creature on the other end of the sex act.

You raise serious points, because of course we all want to have our sex desires fulfilled. But I think the eventual resolution is much much further afield than you are thinking at the moment.
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Old 11-29-2017, 02:50 PM   #17
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OP, don't you know that here on the forums, you're not supposed to post more than 3 paragraphs of your wank story?
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Old 11-29-2017, 05:58 PM   #18
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OP, don't you know that here on the forums, you're not supposed to post more than 3 paragraphs of your wank story?
It's a fascinating topic tho. William Gibson on LIT. I think it was "Count Zero" where he kind of touched on stuff like this.
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Old 11-29-2017, 05:58 PM   #19
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The perfect erotic story? Depends on the writer AND the reader.
Sex (erotica, pornography) is hot, messy, emotional. Some times dangerous. And mostly spontaneous. What the OP is describing is cold and clinical. That's not erotic at all. It's watching a car assembly plant.

My perfect erotic story? Who knows. I have had sex as a male with a woman. I have had gay sex. But the sex I am most interested in --is what I call sissyfiction.

I was born a man but have known I should be a woman from a very early age. And the perfect erotic story for me is being dressed as woman and having hard hard sex with a delicious man. Sex is sloppy--I expect to have cum in my ass. I expect to have swallowed cum. I expect to have cum dripping off my face. I expect this--and that is what I look for in the perfect erotic story
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Old 11-29-2017, 06:07 PM   #20
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The perfect erotic story? Depends on the writer AND the reader.
Sex (erotica, pornography) is hot, messy, emotional. Some times dangerous. And mostly spontaneous. What the OP is describing is cold and clinical. That's not erotic at all. It's watching a car assembly plant.

My perfect erotic story? Who knows. I have had sex as a male with a woman. I have had gay sex. But the sex I am most interested in --is what I call sissyfiction.

I was born a man but have known I should be a woman from a very early age. And the perfect erotic story for me is being dressed as woman and having hard hard sex with a delicious man. Sex is sloppy--I expect to have cum in my ass. I expect to have swallowed cum. I expect to have cum dripping off my face. I expect this--and that is what I look for in the perfect erotic story
But I think the point the OP was trying to may be get at is in interacting with an AI you'd get what you wanted from a story. He'd get clinical, you'd get sloppy, I'd get romance. Everybody gets what they want as a reader/virtual reality participant. As for writers, not sure where a content creator would fit in this model.
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Winner - 2017 Literotica April Fools Competition: "Fingerprints on my Heart"

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Old 11-29-2017, 06:21 PM   #21
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As for writers, not sure where a content creator would fit in this model.
I don't think the tools are quite there yet, but it's not hard to imagine how this might go. AI will get to the point soon that it can, with input from the writer, help generate characters, plots, scenes, etc. AI will be able to learn a writer's writing style and duplicate it, so the stuff you create with your writing program will read like something you wrote. The program will generate multiple ways of saying the same thing, so the author can choose. The reader or readers will be able to transmit preferences to the author, who will plug in those preferences along with his/her ideas into the program, and the program will churn out suggestions.
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Old 11-29-2017, 06:32 PM   #22
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I don't think the tools are quite there yet, but it's not hard to imagine how this might go. AI will get to the point soon that it can, with input from the writer, help generate characters, plots, scenes, etc. AI will be able to learn a writer's writing style and duplicate it, so the stuff you create with your writing program will read like something you wrote. The program will generate multiple ways of saying the same thing, so the author can choose. The reader or readers will be able to transmit preferences to the author, who will plug in those preferences along with his/her ideas into the program, and the program will churn out suggestions.

That's still derivative, not creative. I reckon scribblers in attics have got a while to run yet.
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Old 11-29-2017, 06:37 PM   #23
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That's still derivative, not creative. I reckon scribblers in attics have got a while to run yet.
Not necessarily. I assume the author still will provide a great deal of input as well, but that the software will help the author generate written words based on his/her ideas as well as input from other sources. In theory, it will be no different from Photoshop for photos or various illustration programs for animation.

My basic point is that AI shouldn't be seen as a sort of "fake" way of writing in the future; instead, it's going to be an enhancement of the process of human creativity. That's my guess, anyway.
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Old 11-29-2017, 07:13 PM   #24
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For me, the perfect erotic story would be one that leaves me as excited on its hundredth reading as it did on its first.

But God help us all if there as a story that we all agree is the perfect story for all of us, because it would mean that we've been so thoroughly homogenized that individual tastes no longer mean anything.
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Old 11-29-2017, 07:23 PM   #25
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Sure, the concept is believable and probably somewhat doable in the near future...But, why would this really create anything different than the fantasies we already have running around in our heads? And, for me, those fantasies are ever evolving. What's the point of putting it down on paper, if it's just for a one time "perfect read" by the person operating the machine?

No, I suspect it'll end up being submitted to some website for other readers to enjoy...and at that point it is no longer perfect, or even close to perfect, 'cause it will fall short for everyone else just like it does now. Sounds to me like a lot of trouble to just put a one time fantasy on paper I mean; what would be the point of sharing it?

It also seems that if one is even remotely critical, and even the smallest details can ruin a fantasy, then it's unlikely any AI will produce a clean enough script...unless it were able to connect directly into one's mind...but then again, what's the point?
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