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Old 11-03-2017, 06:35 PM   #1
Dismalgirl
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Pro authors?

The quality of literotica authors are so far above par from a majority of authors in similar sites. Do many of the authors who post stories here write professionally in mainstream but also write stories here so they can delve into sexual fantasies they otherwise wouldn't be able to express in normal public media? I just get that feeling....

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Old 11-03-2017, 08:47 PM   #2
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The quality of literotica authors are so far above par from a majority of authors in similar sites. Do many of the authors who post stories here write professionally in mainstream but also write stories here so they can delve into sexual fantasies they otherwise wouldn't be able to express in normal public media? I just get that feeling....
There are authors here who write in the mainstream and/or sell their writing off-site. Not me.

It's been a long time since I read off from Lit, but when I did I thought that the difference in quality was because Laurel actually has standards while other sites don't. Given the volume of material she has to review (~80 stories a day), the standards aren't consistently enforced, but the effect is still there.
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Old 11-03-2017, 09:01 PM   #3
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i sell off-site. no personal fantasies. sometimes it's a scene someone wants to 'put out there'.

occasionally the private requests are ... disturbing.
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Old 11-03-2017, 10:52 PM   #4
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I write for mainstream now but it didn't start that way. A non-erotic story I posted here on Lit got me noticed by a publisher who needed stories in a certain field and i fell right into it.

Mainstream writing is a J.O.B. Lit writing is fun.
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Old 11-03-2017, 11:30 PM   #5
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Mainstream writing is a J.O.B. Lit writing is fun.
ditto

Except TxRad's a dirty old man. I'm a dirty not quite so oldish man

Welcome to the AH Dismalgirl. Enjoy reading and threading!
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Old 11-03-2017, 11:32 PM   #6
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I have earned my living by my pen for most of the past 50 years. The erotic stuff comes and goes. But, for me anyway, pushing it a little further than you usually can in mainstream media is just a bit of fun. There’s not much ‘delving into sexual fantasies’. My stuff is all pretty gentle.
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Old 11-03-2017, 11:40 PM   #7
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Many of the great authors here have mentioned having normal jobs and so forth.
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Old 11-04-2017, 12:55 AM   #8
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I publish both erotica and in the mainstream. I've done that while I had regular jobs (I wouldn't call them "normal" jobs. They were interesting but not normal) and I'm now doing it in full retirement. I have publishers; I'm not self-publishing.
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Old 11-04-2017, 04:46 AM   #9
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Yep but for two reasons

Firstly, I write economic research reports for banks and industrial trading houses - very rarely these days because I'm mostly retired from just doing contracts for money; although these reports were not fiction, if those contracting them had their way they would have been!

And secondly, I really don't know how ANY mainstream published writer can justify not being more explicit about sex and sexuality and the erotic 'angle,' as it were, in the modern era, and if you don't do it 'properly' (that is, EXPLICITLY UP TO THE LEVEL OF WHAT THE ORDINARY PERSON TALKS LIKE AND THINKS ABOUT IN THEIR NORMAL LIFE) I don't see how you are being faithful - as a writer - to your reader.

If a publisher told me to 'tone it down' or the like for a market or for their requirements I would just turn my back. Same goes for screenwriting and movies - today's movies (for adults) are rubbish; compared to what COULD AND SHOULD really be in them.

There's absolutely nothing at all leading edge or truly artistic (which process always takes risks and pushes the horizons) about the current era 'mainstream/commercial' entertainment industry.

Harvey Weinstein's problem is he is self-involved and ego-centric, not that he's (only) a sex maniac. 'Sex predator' is also a misnomer because he's so crashingly boring.
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Old 11-04-2017, 05:13 AM   #10
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I Write for fun these days

I'm retired now and I just started writing for fun. When I worked I wrote quite a few technical papers, some of which were published, now that I'm retired I still get a kick out of writing, but now I can write to please me. I'm not sure my ideas and writing style would attract a mainstream audience, so I think it would be hard for me to sell to a publisher/online etc. I would certainly like to make a little pin money out of writing, but fear that I'm not good enough. I'm really just another tyro right now, and the feedback from Lit should help me improve.
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Old 11-04-2017, 05:59 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desiremakesmeweak View Post
(Snip)

And secondly, I really don't know how ANY mainstream published writer can justify not being more explicit about sex and sexuality and the erotic 'angle,' as it were, in the modern era, and if you don't do it 'properly' (that is, EXPLICITLY UP TO THE LEVEL OF WHAT THE ORDINARY PERSON TALKS LIKE AND THINKS ABOUT IN THEIR NORMAL LIFE) I don't see how you are being faithful - as a writer - to your reader.

If a publisher told me to 'tone it down' or the like for a market or for their requirements I would just turn my back. Same goes for screenwriting and movies - today's movies (for adults) are rubbish; compared to what COULD AND SHOULD really be in them.

(Snip)
What part of J.O.B. didn't you understand. Writing here at Lit is fun and we do what we want within Laurel's guidelines. Mainstream has more guidelines than you can shake a stick at. It is their ball, their court, and their serve. Yeah, I pushed the limits and raised the bar here and there but and it is a big butt, the legal department has far more say than you would ever believe.

It is also what you are writing. Like I said, in my early works I pushed the limits. Now most of what I write is directed at the teen market. Good money but not a place for pushing any kind of adult limits.

Mainstream is a business, period.
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Old 11-04-2017, 07:50 AM   #12
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If I was to put anything explicit in a cozy mystery, which traditionally has the female lead developing a romantic relationship with another core character, the publisher would rip it up in a heartbeat.

If I self published a cozy mystery and threw in explicit sex the reviews would tank, killing future sales.

I believe the same would be true of epic fantasies (G.R.R. Martin is an exception not the rule) and science fiction. I don't recall any sex scenes in The Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, Star Trek or Dr. Who. Okay, Princess Leia wore that gold bikini, but really.....
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She was never as simple as she led them to believe; She was the keeper of a secret flame, and she waited patiently for somebody to see it, and love it, as it burned.--Jose Chaves - Seen, Loved, and Cherished

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Old 11-04-2017, 08:56 AM   #13
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Quote:
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If I was to put anything explicit in a cozy mystery, which traditionally has the female lead developing a romantic relationship with another core character, the publisher would rip it up in a heartbeat.

If I self published a cozy mystery and threw in explicit sex the reviews would tank, killing future sales.

I believe the same would be true of epic fantasies (G.R.R. Martin is an exception not the rule) and science fiction. I don't recall any sex scenes in The Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, Star Trek or Dr. Who. Okay, Princess Leia wore that gold bikini, but really.....
There's a fair bit of explicit SF/F out there. Jacqueline Carey's "Kushiel" series, Anne Rice's "Beauty", lots of skeevy Piers Anthony stuff, some of Clive Barker's... and of course John Norman's "Gor" is legendary, for better or for worse. My partner also nominates Pamela Sergeant's "The Shore of Woman" and some of Johanna Lindsay's fantasy.

And I guess Mary Gentle's "Grunts". ("Mother, is that you?")
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Old 11-04-2017, 09:06 AM   #14
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If I was to put anything explicit in a cozy mystery, which traditionally has the female lead developing a romantic relationship with another core character, the publisher would rip it up in a heartbeat.

If I self published a cozy mystery and threw in explicit sex the reviews would tank, killing future sales.

I believe the same would be true of epic fantasies (G.R.R. Martin is an exception not the rule) and science fiction. I don't recall any sex scenes in The Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, Star Trek or Dr. Who. Okay, Princess Leia wore that gold bikini, but really.....
I agree, so difficult to incorporate overt sex themes into mainstream literature. I remember reading a SciFi story by Isaac Asimov that he prefaced with an explanation that he's written it to demonstrate to a friend that he could write quasi-erotically, there was no sex, just the whiff of a promise of it, it was a very good story - In Marsport Without Hilda.

Having said this, we all know what Shakespeare was talking about when he referred to Country Matters...
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Old 11-04-2017, 09:15 AM   #15
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I agree, so difficult to incorporate overt sex themes into mainstream literature. I remember reading a SciFi story by Isaac Asimov that he prefaced with an explanation that he's written it to demonstrate to a friend that he could write quasi-erotically, there was no sex, just the whiff of a promise of it, it was a very good story - In Marsport Without Hilda.

Having said this, we all know what Shakespeare was talking about when he referred to Country Matters...
You need to read the Sho lan (why does that keep getting starred out? I put it space because it just stars out like this *****n) Alliance series by Lisanne Norman and published by Penguin Random House. Those sex scenes are explicit. Good enough for a teenager to earmark. That was a 9 story sci-fi series, I didn't read them all, weren't all my books, but they were good.

George R.R. Martin does not write explicit sex scenes. Not even close. He's PG-13 or if they had it, PG-16, but he mentions incest & rape likes it a normal thing 'because that's history.' the show on the other hand, that is explicit, but not erotic.

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Old 11-04-2017, 12:26 PM   #16
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......Mainstream is a business, period.
And we're not even talking women's romances, the single biggest segment of the book market. Their are very strict rules there and the publishers, some of them, have very explicit guidelines. And the rules on sex by type of romance, omg. It's just about which chapter they get to kiss in etc etc etc. Better believe if you want to be published there you follow the rules. There's some romance publishers won't even accept submissions from male authors.

Nope, you can't just write what you want if you want to be published. And their are big segments of the market that don't want explicit sex, or even sex. Weird, I know, but there you have it.
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Old 11-04-2017, 12:58 PM   #17
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And secondly, I really don't know how ANY mainstream published writer can justify not being more explicit about sex and sexuality and the erotic 'angle,' as it were, in the modern era, and if you don't do it 'properly' (that is, EXPLICITLY UP TO THE LEVEL OF WHAT THE ORDINARY PERSON TALKS LIKE AND THINKS ABOUT IN THEIR NORMAL LIFE) I don't see how you are being faithful - as a writer - to your reader.
I guess you neither write nor read inspirational, children's, or cozies (which pretty much make up the greater part of the market) books in the mainstream. Sorry, I think this statement is off the wall and can only come from not working in the market.
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Old 11-04-2017, 09:01 PM   #18
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... I don't see how you are being faithful - as a writer - to your reader.
In my experience, the reader doesn't really come into it. If you want the advances and then the royalty cheques, you usually have to be faithful to your publisher and your editor. Call me a whore if you must, but my wine merchant needs to be paid.
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Old 11-04-2017, 10:09 PM   #19
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Writing for pay is a J.O.B. and if ya don't like it, do something else.

Writing for LIT or other non-payers is fun i.e. self-gratification.

I was formerly paid to write and document software, then to write user manuals, then to edit such. Much creativity was involved but it was a J.O.B. "Whoever pays the piper, calls the tune." I was the piper.

I was rarely paid for songs and poetry I wrote from an early age. I wrote almost no fiction till I encountered LIT a few years ago. I've never been paid for fiction, nope. If I wrote for pay it would be a J.O.B. and I'm too old for that.

You can write for a market, or for an employer, or for yourself. Or for all. Each has its own rewards and punishments.
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Old 11-04-2017, 10:20 PM   #20
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In my experience, the reader doesn't really come into it. If you want the advances and then the royalty cheques, you usually have to be faithful to your publisher and your editor. Call me a whore if you must, but my wine merchant needs to be paid.
He who writes the checks, writes the rules. The readers are way down the line.

Years ago I was helping out with booth duty at a trade show for a publisher of auto books I did some work for. I was dutifully explaining all the features of a line of books to one of their large distributors. He said to me, "I don't give a fuck if it's 300 blank pages as long as it sells and doesn't get returned." That's the first customer that needs to be to satisfied. He sells to a retailer. Then it gets to the faithful reader.

As Tex said, it's business.

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Old 11-04-2017, 11:04 PM   #21
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A Pro Author eh?

Writing for a living? - Well, that's an idea
Can't say I hadn't thought of it, but from what I'm reading here it seems it isn't all plain sailing. Surprisingly, from what the professionals are saying, raunchy doesn't necessarily sell your work either I've only just started on Lit but I've been writing erotic stories for a couple of years now (yes - since the ripe old age of 16), and I was thinking it could be an easy living How naive?

There seems to be a lot of good advice here and I'd just like to say if anyone cares to read my work (only a couple of titles so far) I'd be very interested in your comments Please don't be afraid to be critical (constructive criticism would be more helpful though please) - you can't correct what you don't know you're doing wrong, can you

A few people have suggested they like my style, so that's promising for me, but I'm well aware there are likely to be lots of pitfalls. Any advice would be gratefully received.
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Old 11-04-2017, 11:11 PM   #22
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Quote:
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There seems to be a lot of good advice here and I'd just like to say if anyone cares to read my work (only a couple of titles so far) I'd be very interested in your comments Please don't be afraid to be critical (constructive criticism would be more helpful though please) - you can't correct what you don't know you're doing wrong, can you

A few people have suggested they like my style, so that's promising for me, but I'm well aware there are likely to be lots of pitfalls. Any advice would be gratefully received.
Link them in the Story Feedback forum and you should get some feedback.
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Old 11-06-2017, 12:17 PM   #23
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I think some of you guys are living in the past.

And worse, some others are recounting folklore and fairy-tales about what publishing and authoring are 'meant' to be like - but aren't and never have been!

Oh sure, there are many segments in the overall marketplace, and some are highly specialized and demand 'no sex' more or less - for 'inspirational' I personally have to be narrow-minded and think 'religious!' That's no slur on the money side of that arena; but I still wouldn't do it as a J.O.B.!

There's absolutely no doubt that in the music business, as a comparison of different arts, religious popular music is a very significant commercial arena. So it's likely something similar applies to writing; I don't have any data but it sounds plausible.

Philosophically though, to me, 'mainstream' means the people who get on buses and trains or drive to work each day, including a few who catch planes too.

I mean I guess I include ALL types of people who have a job or hold down a job - and here is my example of the type of talk they indulge in when they think no one is watching or listening and they are talking to their peers:

'You grab 'em by the pussy.'

I rest my case, your honor. LOL

I know I will lose my case here because everyone else knows more than I do and have written more successfully, commercially, and have no doubt made heaps more money over the years too, than I have ever have...

And I say that with a great deal of self-confidence. Because for the tiny, the miniscule percentage of young writers trying to break into the paying game who have just understood the meaning of what I just said, you can always PM me.

I don't dispute or gainsay what pilot is saying here: I am very very stilted in my perceptions. I guess for me the difference between what I class as 'the mainstream' AS UNDERSTOOD by people who read the newspapers and watch television, and the mainstream of commercial money exchange to do with professional writing can be thought of as highly stilted: I don't know Charles or Maurice Saatchi, but I do know Kevin Roberts, for instance. Saatchi is said to make way more than Roberts or even god, for that matter.

I like Roberts' advertising copy and his commercial work generally, and I don't like the Saatchi's work at all - I cannot fathom how they ever made any sales of anything from what they did. And so I am biased or even, prejudiced, really. On the other hand I have had the opportunity to SEE the sales figures reported by independent auditors for some of Kevin Roberts work - and he's a very commercially successful guy regardless. So I'll go with what I know and what I'm attracted to.

Saatchi at one time marketed Jeffrey Archer's work and the press releases all said Archer was a 'best-selling author.' I've met Archer and he's a very personable and chatty, and intelligent guy. Archer, like the pilot here, is a demon of a worker, pumping out stunning amounts of work like Rumpelstiltskin spins out gold - even while he's running around the world on talking tours or doing political campaigns as well. It's amazing how he does all this. At one time he even edited for a Murdoch newspaper AND wrote for their magazines AND did everything else as well. It's amazing how this all happens.

Adam Hall I once met with a guy called 'Charles McKnight' on a plane going to a conference with the then just retired or semi-retired head of WaPo, Katharine Graham - they were on a UN Investigation Committee into Western firms using Saddam Hussein's Iraq as the place to manufacture products and chemicals that were banned anywhere else under UN Treaties (Iraq was never a UN-compliant government). This was back in the early 'Eighties.

Adam Hall's writing I like, Archer I think is a drone at best. Funny too, because sometimes the plots of Archer's books have an uncanny resemblance to Hall's. If only he'd have used the exact same words, then I would have liked those 'Jeffrey Archer' books too. In fact I could have hardly told the difference.

Same as today, on the surface of things, someone 'Christopher Steele' wrote 'the Trump Dossier' and apparently got paid ten or fifteen million dollars for it, partly from the FBI, of all people!!!

But it's rubbish when you read it. It's dreadful writing. And it's fictional. But he's pretty well-known now - so he's a fiction writer, and publicly well-known, therefore mainstream, AND he's made a bunch of money. So there you go - you should do what he did. Copy Roger Stone's source's work, mishandle it badly but have someone behind you to give it 'the push.' Et voila.

Roger Stone, on the other hand, also makes a few bucks here and there, and he may have even HAD a 'Russia'-something-or-other Dossier out and about privately. But it was AGAINST the Dems, not against Trump and it worked, but it also had to be kept a secret, more or less. And has been.

For me, Christopher Steele is the 'mainstream' you all are talking about.

But for me, Roger is the game. Because Trump won. And Steele's people lost.

Steele is mainstream fantasy - Stone is the actual real deal.

The tragedy of those who really clean up in this racket though, is that they become Adam Hall - you've never really much heard of him, and he was not allowed back into England, maybe because of tax problems, maybe some other thing. That was when Archer was 'also(!)' in the Tory Government. So yeah, he was very 'mainstream,' in one sense.

Best modern or reasonable current era 'mainstream' writer I've read (that I like) is Marion Chesney.

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Old 11-06-2017, 01:58 PM   #24
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I think you have practically no knowledge or experience in what you're posting, so we both seem to have thoughts about that--and that's all I need to think about it.
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Old 11-06-2017, 02:19 PM   #25
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I have no idea what it takes to get a book published - you have to have some ambition to find that out, but I was thinking, "American Psycho had to have some trouble getting published," so digging around for a few minutes I found this:

It's part of Brett Easton Ellis interview: Here is the entire article

Turning to Simon & Schuster's decision to cancel his book (after having paid the author a $300,000 advance) on the grounds of taste, Mr. Ellis said he was distressed partly because Paramount Communications , the parent company of the publisher, puts out "squalid and extremely violent" movies like "Friday the 13th." But there was also something deeper: "When you're at a publishing house, you expect your publisher to understand what you do. You do not expect them to be so timid about what the press or others might say about a work they have bought, printed and are about to ship. That strikes me as a definite betrayal of an article of faith in publishing." Regrets at the Top

In it, the publishing company says, "Nope, not for us," even though they'd already given him money and he says, "Aw, that's not fair." and while someone eventually published his book, it goes to show that it's not what the writer wants, it's what the Publishers are willing to do for that writer.
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