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Old 11-06-2017, 02:03 AM   #26
Hypoxia
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Lots more theology.
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Originally Posted by coachdb18 View Post
Having passed that 'basic civics class', I'm already aware that the only departments authorized by the Constitution are Defense, Commerce, and State. That's it, the remainder are extraconstitutional, and reserved to the states, and the people.
You flunked that Civics course. No departments are named in the Constitution. The President commands the Army, Navy, and state Militias when they're called up. Congress has power to provide for defence, regulate foreign and interstate commerce, and provide a postal system. All the rest of gov't frippery results from legislation and rulings.

The Constitution is just the tortilla; it ain't the whole enchilada.

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There is no reason for ALL taxes TOTAL (federal, state, local, sales tax, etc) to ever exceed 10% total for any citizen. Taxes are for NEEDS, not for WANTS. You can pay for your own wants yourself, not at the barrel of a government gun. Redistributing the wealth is NOT an ethical reason for a government of ANY kind.
More theology. Reality works otherwise.

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1. Repeal the XVI Amendment (was unconstitutional to start with)
2. Close the IRS
3. Fund the Federal government by funding approvals from state legislatures
See, you DID flunk Civics!

1. Any amendment, once adopted, is constitutional. Duh. Art.V: "Amendments.. shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution..."

2. There've been legal and constitutional challenges to the IRS for a century. All failed. Have fun trying.

3. That specifically violates Art.I Sec.8 Cl.1: "The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises..." and Art.I Sec.7 Cl.1: "All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives..." The states have no constitutional role.

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Old 11-07-2017, 05:11 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by EmpressJosephine View Post

You misunderstand.

I'm not advocating minimal government. I'm advocating a smaller federal government. In the USA, the idea was that most services that act as societal "lubrication" would come from state and local governments. That way there is more local control, and better response to local conditions, rather than the cookie-cutter, one-size-fits-all regulatory schemes of the federal government. I'm an educator, and federal mandates regarding education are generally useless at best, and often counterproductive because they don't apply to the situation on the ground locally.

I hear the same thing from friends in health care. For example, the current "opioid epidemic" can be traced back to well-intentioned federal mandates from 2012. It essentially limited the pain relievers doctors could prescribe, but did not take into account how this would affect current patients using opioids. As a result, they basically had their prescriptions eliminated or reduced to ineffectual levels in a cold-turkey fashion, so they turned to the street for relief.

What sounds good inside the Beltway often works poorly in the real world. That's why keeping the regulatory authority as local as possible is preferable. That also addresses your concern about amounts of taxation. If the proper balance were restored between state and federal authority, federal taxes would go down, but local (including state) taxes would rise. The difference: the money kept local would be better spent.



Your arguments are reasonable, logical, and expressed clearly. And you'll be rewarded with ridicule, ad hominem, and dogmatic talking points.

"Lubrication". Someone actually used that to describe government. Oh my fucking god...
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Old 11-07-2017, 05:19 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Hypoxia View Post
That breaks down when state and local govt's are run by corrupt cliques who fuck-over their non-friends, entrenched often by gerrymandering and disenfranchisement. Cf. federal civil rights laws.

How to regain a federal-state-local balance? Free and fair elections are a good start. USA doesn't rank well internationally; some states rank worse than sub-Saharan kleptocracies. (Looking at you, South Carolina.) Kill the fictions of "a corporation is a person" and "money is speech". And REGULATE corporations, as Adam Smith urged, as was the early American practice.

Reagan said gov't was the problem, not the solution. Then he and his ilk (including Wee Willie Clinton) started killing regulations against centralized power and commerce. Result: money and power concentrate on the coasts. Formerly vibrant "fly-over zone" economies are devastated. Locals with no life options are left with no recreations but sex and drugs.

The crisis started two decades ago. Looking at this chart (click for the Wikipedia article), heroin and other opioid overdoses surged from 2009, which likely triggered the mandates.



Why surge then? Let's see, what else happened? Oh yeah, economic collapse caused by Dubya's gang forsaking regulation. Suddenly, many jobs gone, many futures blown to shit. We see the results.
1. Note: Government at the State and Local level = Corrupt.
2. Government at the Federal Level = Clean and Honest.

Amazing how that dichotomy works in the mind of a liberal.

3. Without Federal Government..what was it? Gangs, Fiefdoms, and Warlords. Are you F'ing kidding me? That is probably the most delusional statement on this board, and it simply emphasizes your religion is the Federal Government and worship every day.

4. Corporations are treated as separate legal entities (persons) - Tax Law. And most small businesses are LLC's, LLP's, and Sole Proprietorships...but by all means, let's do away with them.

5. Here's a tip. Regulations. Cost. Money. More regulations = less money. Less money = less businesses, employment, and surprise, surprise....tax revenue.

6. Free and Fair Elections...we had that. You're still whining. You don't want free and fair elections. You want to win each time. You want a guaranteed outcome in your favor, otherwise you'll scream and cry.

Please. Stay the fuck out of economics and finance. You're in over your head, and you don't even know it.
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Old 11-08-2017, 10:30 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by JayCuck View Post
1. Note
Do you have proof of any of this? I don't think so and you clearly didn't read my post where I destroyed the standard Teahadist anti-tax jihad. Why don't you go read my post and come back with any proof of your bullshit claims.
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Old 11-08-2017, 12:26 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Carnal_Flower View Post

Btw, the Rs only bitch about the deficit when Ds want to "spend" gov't to help people, with, I don't know, healthcare.
When have the (D)'s ever tried to help people with getting healthcare?

It's NEVER happened.

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Originally Posted by Carnal_Flower View Post
They DON'T bitch about it when that money is SPENT on giving the rich what they want: more money and control. Then they don't care.
Neither do the (D)'s you partisan imbecile.

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Originally Posted by Hypoxia View Post
That breaks down when state and local govt's are run by corrupt cliques who fuck-over their non-friends, entrenched often by gerrymandering and disenfranchisement. Cf. federal civil rights laws.
No, it doesn't.

It breaks down when the federal government is so huge it decides it's job is to go in and micromanage everyone. And that's all there is to it.

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How to regain a federal-state-local balance? Free and fair elections are a good start.
Simple majority mob rule =/= free and fair no matter how badly you wish it did.
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Old 11-08-2017, 12:40 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Hypoxia View Post
That breaks down when state and local govt's are run by corrupt cliques who fuck-over their non-friends, entrenched often by gerrymandering and disenfranchisement....
Gee. Sounds more like the Clintons (just ask Bernie or Donna Brazile.)


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Originally Posted by Hypoxia View Post
Formerly vibrant "fly-over zone" economies are devastated. Locals with no life options are left with no recreations but sex and drugs.
Funny you should bring up "'fly-over zone' economies," given the booming economy and budget surpluses in my home state of Wisconsin in the wake of decreased taxes and regulation, as opposed to the stagnation in Minnesota and fiscal meltdown in Illinois, those two being high tax and strict regulation states.


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Originally Posted by Hypoxia View Post
The crisis started two decades ago. Looking at this chart (click for the Wikipedia article), heroin and other opioid overdoses surged from 2009, which likely triggered the mandates.

Wait, nice try, but... This chart supports EJ's claim that the opioid problem started after the federal government started forcing doctors to reduce prescription opioids (dark blue line). Only the non-synthetic heroin (technically an opiate, not an opioid) spikes earlier than that. The synthetic opioids (brown line), the ones used as the primary replacement for prescription spike after the federal action, just like EJ wrote. I bet she appreciates your confirmation.

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Originally Posted by Hypoxia View Post
Oh yeah, economic collapse caused by Dubya's gang forsaking regulation. Suddenly, many jobs gone, many futures blown to shit. We see the results.
Can you be specific as to which regulations were not enforced?

One significant cause of the pre-2008 bubble, and the main reason it popped, were federal regulatory policies that allowed, and ultimately required, based on those civil rights laws you mentioned, banks to make risky home loans to people with poor credit. These were then "bundled" with other investments to make them more palatable on the secondary market. Including these "subprime" loans in these bundles ultimately so weakened the foundation of the whole market that it could not support the over-valued real estate built upon it, over-valued because this same federal meddling in the real-estate market artificially drove up demand by allowing people who really could not afford mortgages to buy homes with them anyway.

To the extent the Bush 43 administration was culpable for allowing this to happen, it did so by simply enforcing the policies established by the Clinton presidency.

Again, which regulations were not enforced?
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Old 11-08-2017, 03:42 PM   #32
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Funny you should bring up "'fly-over zone' economies," given the booming economy and budget surpluses in my home state of Wisconsin in the wake of decreased taxes and regulation, as opposed to the stagnation in Minnesota and fiscal meltdown in Illinois, those two being high tax and strict regulation states.
She can't help but be venomous to all the Nazis living in flyover country....horrible fucking white cis scum.

The idea that they aren't begging to get shit on by the elites on the coasts more just boggles her mind, clearly they only vote red because Republicans have cheated AND everyone in flyover country is a stupid redneck Nazi not worthy to lick the shit off of (D) shoes.
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Old 11-08-2017, 05:52 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by DawnODay View Post
, as opposed to the stagnation in Minnesota
If anyone bothers to read that Minnesota thread they're going to see you getting absolutely destroyed by me.

By the way how's that Foxxcon deal working out?

And if cutting taxes is always the answer how come when Reagan cut them the economy tanked but when he raised the, 11 times, it started to recover?
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Old 11-08-2017, 06:14 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by BotanyBoy View Post
When have the (D)'s ever tried to help people with getting healthcare?

It's NEVER happened.



Neither do the (D)'s you partisan imbecile.



No, it doesn't.

It breaks down when the federal government is so huge it decides it's job is to go in and micromanage everyone. And that's all there is to it.



Simple majority mob rule =/= free and fair no matter how badly you wish it did.
You mean which days end in 'y'
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Old 11-08-2017, 06:32 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by dan_c00000 View Post
Do you have proof of any of this? I don't think so and you clearly didn't read my post where I destroyed the standard Teahadist anti-tax jihad. Why don't you go read my post and come back with any proof of your bullshit claims.
Why would I read someone who actually cites Paul "the fucking loon" Krugman. Also, you pretty much took yourself off the playing field when you call people names like Teahadist. You're a fucking clown.
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Old 11-08-2017, 08:17 PM   #36
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Well, they are, because they all voted for the fascist Trump.


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Originally Posted by BotanyBoy View Post
She can't help but be venomous to all the Nazis living in flyover country....horrible fucking white cis scum.

The idea that they aren't begging to get shit on by the elites on the coasts more just boggles her mind, clearly they only vote red because Republicans have cheated AND everyone in flyover country is a stupid redneck Nazi not worthy to lick the shit off of (D) shoes.
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Old 11-08-2017, 09:30 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Carnal_Flower View Post
Well, they are, because they all voted for the fascist Trump.
No, they aren't...they WERE Obama voting democrats.

Trump is barely even Republican and he was a democratically elected president of the US of A, not a fascist, despot, dictator, Hitler or Mussolini.

The only people who actually buy into that stupid shit are the fringe loons on the left.

Sitting opposite the teahaddist who swore that Communist, Kenyan, Stalin sum' bitch Obama was going to send them to the commie Gulags after he took their gunz!!




Before that, you and yours were doing the SAME shit to Bush.




Bush was the first major E-president....there is a fucking ENDLESS pile of that shit^^

And guess what? As soon as the pendulum swings and another (D) takes office, like the SECOND the news breaks the tables will do a 180 as predictable as the tide. (R)'s will be bemoaning the dawn of the Communist regime, the (D)ick suckers will cheer the dawn of a new golden age despite the fact that at the end of the day, the bottom line is they are both getting more of the same ol' shit.

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Old 11-09-2017, 11:01 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by dan_c00000 View Post
If anyone bothers to read that Minnesota thread they're going to see you getting absolutely destroyed by me.

By the way how's that Foxxcon deal working out?

And if cutting taxes is always the answer how come when Reagan cut them the economy tanked but when he raised the, 11 times, it started to recover?
I note you made that link so that it is not in the context of the crushing replies to it, to which you offered no answer, just as you ignore posts in so many other threads when they prove your links are false, e.g., here. The Princeps is right, you really ought to fact check better before posting things.

Meanwhile, the Foxconn development is going GREAT! Thank you for asking. As a Wisconsinite I love to brag about it. It shows how great for business, and thereby creating jobs for us common folk, Wisconsin has become. For example, Michigan offered 7.3 billion dollars in incentives to Foxconn, as opposed to Wisconsin's mere 3.8 billion, but Foxconn still picked our great state! (Another Scott Walker win!)

The contract has been approved, and they are already holding employment fairs. Naturally, the first big employment boom will come among the construction companies building the plant and surrounding infrastructure. Of course, while they have already started hiring some initial employees, it will take time to reach the 13,000 Foxconn jobs predicted, but apparently not as long as I would have expected. It will be less than a decade!

You know, you really ought to get some of your news from less biased news sources. (I get most of mine from the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel, NPR and WPR. They all lean a bit left, but they present all sides, so it's okay. I also read the WSJ.) If you did, you would have a better idea of what is really going on.
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Old 11-09-2017, 04:08 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by DawnODay View Post
The Princeps is right, you really ought to fact check better before posting things.
Sure let's fact check and when you get destroyed you can rage quit for months like you did last time.

1. Michigan is run by another GOP clown. Here is destroying Flint. Here he is cutting school funding. Here he is cutting taxes and failing to create a better business economy. Here he is leading the nation in jobs lost.

In other words you picked a terrible governor to make Walker seem like a genius.

2. Things you're lying about and failing to address a) Walker lied about the number of jobs. It's not 13,000 but 3,000. That 13,000 is a "maybe". Wisconsin basically forked out $3 billion dollars before the place is even built. It's going to blow such a massive hole in the state budget it's going to take 25 years to recoup the losses.

So if by "going great" you mean nothing has been done but fork over cash to a multi-national corporation than it's going swimmingly. Almost as well as Trump's wall. Foxconn did much the same in Pennsylvania, it worked out real well.

That was some pretty massive destruction there. Come back to me when they're hiring more than just interns and have an actual facility. And then come back to me when they've screwed over Wisconsin tax payers by threatening to leave the state in three years.
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Old 11-09-2017, 06:54 PM   #40
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Sure let's fact check and when you get destroyed you can rage quit for months like you did last time....

2. Things you're lying about and failing to address a) Walker lied about the number of jobs. It's not 13,000 but 3,000. That 13,000 is a "maybe". Wisconsin basically forked out $3 billion dollars before the place is even built. It's going to blow such a massive hole in the state budget it's going to take 25 years to recoup the losses....
Oh my, I almost feel sorry for you. You just made yourself look all the more foolish by your ignorance of the facts. (Again, I urge you to get your news from non-partisan sources like I do [see above].)

You wrote: "Walker lied about the number of jobs." The problem with your statement is that the number did not come from Walker, he simply was reporting Foxconn's own estimate. The 13,000 job figure came from Foxconn itself, and they stand by it yet today. Crushed ya!

You wrote: "Wisconsin basically forked out $3 billion dollars before the place is even built." This is completely wrong. It is the biggest lie being told by those who would rather see Walker fail, even if it costs jobs to the urban poor of southeastern Wisconsin.

The three billion dollars are tax breaks, not payments. They only happen if Foxconn is actually up, running, and employing a large number of people.
The $3 billion wouldn’t be a gift.... That’s the maximum amount the state would pay Foxconn, and only if the company spends roughly $18 billion -- about $9 billion for payroll and $9 billion in capital investments.
Read that closely. The 3 billion dollar credits don't come into play until Foxconn: 1. builds a huge plant (Can you imagine the boon to the economy just from building a nine billion dollar factory?); and 2. have paid nine billion dollars in payroll (Nine billion! Do you realize how many jobs it will take to pay that kind of wages and salaries? Like, maybe, 13,000?). In short, the deal is structured that Wisconsin will be receiving more in tax revenues from the Foxconn's total economic development and its necessary ancillary effects than the tax breaks it is giving Foxconn. If Foxconn hasn't produced the kind of economic development that does that, it surely will not have reached the milestones that trigger the tax breaks.

At worst, Foxconn backs out of the deal (as the Left keeps saying it will). In that case, Wisconsin pays nothing and so there is no loss. On the other hand, if the development goes forward, the incentives are structured so that Wisconsin is still in a revenue positive position even as it cuts the amount of taxes Foxconn pays. Either way, it does not have any negative impact on revenue and so cannot "blow a whole" in the budget. Those who claim that it will either do not understand how taxation and state budgeting works, or they do and they are intentionally misleading poor, uninformed readers like you. Either way: Crushed ya!

Really, please, I love a good debate with an informed opponent. You are not that. You get all your information from partisan opinion sources, not from real news sources like NPR or the WSJ. Get yourself informed and you might actually become a challenge to crush.
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Old 11-09-2017, 07:03 PM   #41
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Democratically elected perhaps, but not by the majority of Americans who voted last November. The current electoral college system is rigged to ensure that Republican candidates (first George W, then Trump) can win elections with fewer votes than their Democratic rivals. Is there any other country in the world where you can lose the popular vote, but win the big prize?



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Originally Posted by BotanyBoy View Post
No, they aren't...they WERE Obama voting democrats.

Trump is barely even Republican and he was a democratically elected president of the US of A, not a fascist, despot, dictator, Hitler or Mussolini.

The only people who actually buy into that stupid shit are the fringe loons on the left.

Sitting opposite the teahaddist who swore that Communist, Kenyan, Stalin sum' bitch Obama was going to send them to the commie Gulags after he took their gunz!!




Before that, you and yours were doing the SAME shit to Bush.




Bush was the first major E-president....there is a fucking ENDLESS pile of that shit^^

And guess what? As soon as the pendulum swings and another (D) takes office, like the SECOND the news breaks the tables will do a 180 as predictable as the tide. (R)'s will be bemoaning the dawn of the Communist regime, the (D)ick suckers will cheer the dawn of a new golden age despite the fact that at the end of the day, the bottom line is they are both getting more of the same ol' shit.
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Old 11-09-2017, 08:39 PM   #42
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Sure let's fact check...
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Originally Posted by DawnODay View Post
Oh my, I almost feel sorry for you. You just made yourself look all the more foolish by your ignorance of the facts. (Again, I urge you to get your news from non-partisan sources like I do [see above].)

You wrote: "Walker lied about the number of jobs." The problem with your statement is that the number did not come from Walker, he simply was reporting Foxconn's own estimate. The 13,000 job figure came from Foxconn itself, and they stand by it yet today. Crushed ya!

You wrote: "Wisconsin basically forked out $3 billion dollars before the place is even built." This is completely wrong. It is the biggest lie being told by those who would rather see Walker fail, even if it costs jobs to the urban poor of southeastern Wisconsin.

The three billion dollars are tax breaks, not payments. They only happen if Foxconn is actually up, running, and employing a large number of people.
The $3 billion wouldn’t be a gift.... That’s the maximum amount the state would pay Foxconn, and only if the company spends roughly $18 billion -- about $9 billion for payroll and $9 billion in capital investments.
Read that closely. The 3 billion dollar credits don't come into play until Foxconn: 1. builds a huge plant (Can you imagine the boon to the economy just from building a nine billion dollar factory?); and 2. have paid nine billion dollars in payroll (Nine billion! Do you realize how many jobs it will take to pay that kind of wages and salaries? Like, maybe, 13,000?). In short, the deal is structured that Wisconsin will be receiving more in tax revenues from the Foxconn's total economic development and its necessary ancillary effects than the tax breaks it is giving Foxconn. If Foxconn hasn't produced the kind of economic development that does that, it surely will not have reached the milestones that trigger the tax breaks.

At worst, Foxconn backs out of the deal (as the Left keeps saying it will). In that case, Wisconsin pays nothing and so there is no loss. On the other hand, if the development goes forward, the incentives are structured so that Wisconsin is still in a revenue positive position even as it cuts the amount of taxes Foxconn pays. Either way, it does not have any negative impact on revenue and so cannot "blow a whole" in the budget. Those who claim that it will either do not understand how taxation and state budgeting works, or they do and they are intentionally misleading poor, uninformed readers like you. Either way: Crushed ya!

Really, please, I love a good debate with an informed opponent. You are not that. You get all your information from partisan opinion sources, not from real news sources like NPR or the WSJ. Get yourself informed and you might actually become a challenge to crush.
The really sad part is that I think Dan actually believes he outwits you in these debates. I sometimes wonder if kindness does not dictate ignoring such people, and letting them be at peace with their misinformed delusions. In Dan's case, certainly, he does such a poor job of organizing and presenting his points, he is rather harmless. As you suggest, you should probably stop wasting your time on Dan and instead debate informed and logical opponents.
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Old 11-09-2017, 09:11 PM   #43
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Democratically elected perhaps, but not by the majority of Americans who voted last November. The current electoral college system is rigged to ensure that Republican candidates (first George W, then Trump) can win elections with fewer votes than their Democratic rivals. Is there any other country in the world where you can lose the popular vote, but win the big prize?
That's why America is the greatest country in the world, we don't sell our souls to the big city liberals, who pack themselves together for the purpose of pushing their weight around, no, we also consider those who live in the less populated regions of America that aren't subject to a tyranny by size. It's why we have both a Senate (each state equal) and House (based on population) for legislation, and we have an Electoral college for the same reason. Maybe England never will get it... seems like a shame to see and ignore a better system.

Think of this another way. Money is how we reward success. So, by saying 'tax the rich', progressives are actually saying 'punish success, and reward failure'.
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Old 11-09-2017, 09:52 PM   #44
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Democratically elected perhaps, but not by the majority of Americans who voted last November. The current electoral college system is rigged to ensure that Republican candidates (first George W, then Trump) can win elections with fewer votes than their Democratic rivals. Is there any other country in the world where you can lose the popular vote, but win the big prize?
The electoral college was incorporated into the Constitution long before there even were political parties. The idea was to prevent a few very large states from running roughshod over the rest of the country, and that's how it worked out last year.

In The UK, the PM's are elected by a plurality of voters in a single district, then voted into office by other members of their parties. At least 98% of the voters have little or nothing to say about who the Prime Minister is.
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Old 11-09-2017, 09:54 PM   #45
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I agree that a doctor or lawyer should earn a lot more than someone who flips burgers.

But our neofeudalistic society is now exclussively rewarding and promoting a new class: the banksters and merchants aka businnessmen, who make up almost exclussively the ranks or billionaires and trillionaires. How many brilliant molecular biologists, mathematicians or violonists are amongst the ranks of billionaires?
molecular biologists, mathematicians and violinists are quite free to be doctors or lawyers if pay is their goal. Just as somebody who goes to college and gets a degree in underwater basket weaving is free to pay $100,000 for their 'fine arts degree' that will never return a dime. It's no more the governments job to assign people jobs than it is to tax them for their choices.
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Old 11-09-2017, 10:02 PM   #46
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I find that there's something fundamentally corrupt and/or callous about a society that grossly undertaxes billionaire and trillionaire merchants and banksters, thus promoting them to the ranks of nobility.

While taxing everybody else.
In the same way that justice is blind in the eyes of the law, so too should be taxation. It is none of the governments concern who makes how much. Taxation is STRICTLY for the purpose of funding the NEEDS of the government, and there is absolutely no moral component to that. NONE. Government should never try to legislate morality, any more than it should ever try and tax for morality.
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Old 11-09-2017, 10:07 PM   #47
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I agree that a doctor or lawyer should earn a lot more than someone who flips burgers. Why overtax someone who worked hard and made millions? Only Russians did that, during communism.

But that's not the argument here (taxing the middle or lower upper class so to speak - those who made millions). It's about FAIR taxation of billionaires and trillionaires.

Our neofeudalistic society is now exclussively rewarding and promoting a new class: the banksters and merchants aka businnessmen.
How many brilliant molecular biologists, mathematicians or violonists are amongst the ranks of billionaires?
There are very few billionaires anyhow, and they include entertainers, professional athletes and computer scientists.

ETA: FWIW, here is a list of the richest families in the USA. https://www.billionairemailinglist.c...ires-list.html

Most of them became rich by making products or providing services.
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Old 11-09-2017, 10:11 PM   #48
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I find that there's something fundamentally corrupt and/or callous about a society that grossly undertaxes billionaire and trillionaire merchants and banksters, thus promoting them to the ranks of nobility.

While taxing everybody else.
What society are you talking about? Clearly it is not the USA. As the OP noted, in the USA:

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The top 1 percent [of taxpayers] paid a greater share of individual income taxes (39.5 percent) than the bottom 90 percent combined (29.1 percent).

The share of income earned by the top 1 percent of taxpayers rose to 20.6 percent in 2014. Their share of federal individual income taxes also rose, to 39.5 percent.

[T]he top 50 percent of all taxpayers paid 97.3 percent of all individual income taxes while the bottom 50 percent paid the remaining 2.7 percent.
While "taxing everyone else"? In fact, most of that bottom 50% pay no federal income tax at all.

As these numbers show, the wealthy already pay a disproportionately high amount of taxes. Let's be honest about that, okay?
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Old 11-09-2017, 10:38 PM   #49
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I'm obviously talking out of my ass when it comes to economics. I don't know these things.
But what I was trying to get at:

Over the last decades we've seen all over the Globe (US, UK, Russia, even third world countries) an insane concentration of wealth in the hands of a few.

Money means power and ability to shortcut legal checks and balances.
And the consequences are obvious, from Election and Media to blatant corruption, third world style.
The worst of humanity is displayed when people are allowed to try and tax others based on envy. You need look no further than the Communist manifesto, proclaiming 'from each according to his abilities, to each according to his need', and then see the death and destruction that has led to ... North Korea, China, the Stalinist confiscation of property and the starvation of Ukrainian farmers, Cuba's descent from a destination of choice to a third world shithole.... the list of best of intentions is a coffin lined superhighway.
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Old 11-09-2017, 10:59 PM   #50
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You're right, and not only that abheration called Communism.
It's more tamed cousin, socialism is the system mostly based on envy and it also concentrates the power in the hands of a few (govt. and bureaucrats this time).

The Western system seemed to be the best, the way it used to be.

But it's gradually sliding into something else.
I cringe for example, that Hep C +ve people over 60 are sentenced to death because they can't afford the new treatment, given that privately owned pharmaceutical companies want to make a profit.
Can you imagine that Americans and Brits are now going to India for treatment?
The best health care is to simply purchase a catastrophic health care plan (you know, the ones ObamaCare eliminated as insufficient), in case you have a really nasty accident on the freeway or contract a major disease, and simply pay for the healthcare you use out of pocket... forget the 'denied claims' after you've paid huge policy sums every month. Physicians who don't file insurance claims and work for cash make far more, due to the huge overhead they no longer must support with insurance and the staff it takes to support the paperwork, not to mention the government 'efficiency' and elevated blood pressure.
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