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Old 10-30-2017, 09:04 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by GingerCat1 View Post
What I want most is depth to the characters, I want to be cheering for the main character to succeed, I want to know his thoughts, his hopes and even dreams, and I want to know his motivations and you don't always get that in the shorter stories. I also don't like it when the main character is already attracted to his sister or mother before the story begins as to me that is ruining half the fun of incest stories.

To me incest stories, or what makes them good to read is the taboo nature of it. I want the main character feeling guilt, or feeling conflicted as it feels more realistic, and makes it so much more taboo when he and the other character finally give in. If the author only pays lip service to the characters having sex being taboo, then it does not feel nearly as taboo.
This doesn't only apply to incest stories or short stories (or long ones either). What a lot of people want is emotion, depth, visualization, and so on. Brevity doesn't always provide those essential elements because readers want to live through the characters. Short stories get around this by delivering a plot twist of some type that's unexpected and which triggers some type of response from the reader at the very end. That twist is what delivers (or doesn't) the satisfaction in the reader.

Most of the stories here are written by writers who are trying to develop or hone their talents. That doesn't mean everyone is a budding Hemingway or Tolstoy or Shakespeare. What it means is that the stories here are sometimes crude, either by design or lack of developed skills, and the finesse that one looks for in commercial works is often missing. You can see this in the typo's, plot breaks, and other things that commercial works don't have because THEY have editors and staff who look for those things for a living and help their authors solve those problems. Our challenge is to provide the same level of quality without the support - and it's often just not there. For good reason.

What I find puzzling is that few use the feedback system to give helping assistance to writers. It's a tool that almost no one uses so that writers can improve, not only the existing work, but new works too. As a whole, I believe we should all work on our skills in this area. Not to be bootlickers or trolls, but to give honest helpful assistance to improve the quality of the writing here overall. Comments and ratings should be for "loving" or "hating" but feedback should be used to say: "I read your story and at the point on page 1 where you..." and should not be just an anon wham bam sentence without a return contact. If you're willing to open the subject, then you should be willing to continue the conversation.
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Old 10-30-2017, 12:42 PM   #27
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What I find puzzling is that few use the feedback system to give helping assistance to writers. It's a tool that almost no one uses so that writers can improve, not only the existing work, but new works too. As a whole, I believe we should all work on our skills in this area. Not to be bootlickers or trolls, but to give honest helpful assistance to improve the quality of the writing here overall. Comments and ratings should be for "loving" or "hating" but feedback should be used to say: "I read your story and at the point on page 1 where you..." and should not be just an anon wham bam sentence without a return contact. If you're willing to open the subject, then you should be willing to continue the conversation.
Public comments have been on a steady decline ever since story favorites were introduced. It's obvious that many readers prefer to express their support that way.

Odds are that once the reading lists are rolled out site wide, we'll see a steady decline in story favorites as well.

As to providing constructive criticism via public comments... After only a handful, people providing such begin to encounter people who don't want any form of criticism constructive or not. After being snarled at a couple of times, most people quit doing it.
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Old 10-30-2017, 01:07 PM   #28
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Most of the stories here are written by writers who are trying to develop or hone their talents.
Proof, please. I think that's quite incorrect and leads to false vigilantism here. There are a gazillion writers here. I think most are here to share a dirty story and don't want vigilante literary gurus stepping on their pleasure to do more than that. I invite you to review what all writers have written to Literotica and demonstrate your assertion.
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Old 10-30-2017, 01:08 PM   #29
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As to providing constructive criticism via public comments... After only a handful, people providing such begin to encounter people who don't want any form of criticism constructive or not. After being snarled at a couple of times, most people quit doing it.
Snarled at for good reason unless the writer has specifically invited critique.
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Old 10-30-2017, 01:11 PM   #30
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I will need to remember this come my next incest story I write. Now this may land me in hot water but I am one of those people who like to read what I call quick wank stories or stories you can bypass all the drama, plot and whatever else is going on and go straight to the steamy action. I also like to write those stories.

With that said, I do like to take time and read stories where there is a build up and plot and understanding. It all depends on what my mood is at the time.

Now I'm not trying to start anything here. I think that the few incest stories I've read on here could use more of a build up and more history on the characters.

Anyways, I look forward to reading more stories on here.
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Old 10-30-2017, 02:34 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Arthur_J_Cummings View Post
I will need to remember this come my next incest story I write. Now this may land me in hot water but I am one of those people who like to read what I call quick wank stories or stories you can bypass all the drama, plot and whatever else is going on and go straight to the steamy action. I also like to write those stories.

With that said, I do like to take time and read stories where there is a build up and plot and understanding. It all depends on what my mood is at the time.

Now I'm not trying to start anything here. I think that the few incest stories I've read on here could use more of a build up and more history on the characters.

Anyways, I look forward to reading more stories on here.
This illustrates perfectly why Lit is such a rich resource that can satisfy most anyone. Here's a guy says he wants quick stroke, wants to write quick stroke. He's going to find plenty of material that does exactly that.

And here's the same guy also say that, when he gets out the other side of the bed in a different mood, he wants the opposite, something with build up and plot. Lucky guy, he's going to find plenty of material that does exactly that.

In terms of the OP's comment (echoed here) that many incest stories don't invest in emotion and plot, all I can suggest is, go read a few stories by pacofear, widely accepted I think as some of the very best work by an incest writer on this site. Not quick stroke, by any means.
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Old 10-30-2017, 02:40 PM   #32
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Ah, yes Pacofear. Good recommendation.
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Old 10-30-2017, 02:48 PM   #33
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Proof, please. I think that's quite incorrect and leads to false vigilantism here. There are a gazillion writers here. I think most are here to share a dirty story and don't want vigilante literary gurus stepping on their pleasure to do more than that. I invite you to review what all writers have written to Literotica and demonstrate your assertion.
I'm with Pilot here. I subscribe to the 80/20 rule - I reckon most writers here publish because they want to get something out there, to satisfy a kink or a fantasy, but don't give a toss about polishing their skills.

I reckon it's a minority, and probably a small one - and if one judges by the number of writers who frequent AH, the Editor's Forum and this Feedback Forum (the main "writer's craft" forums), a tiny tiny fraction - who want to develop their skills.

And if you then look at the number of writers who have actually gone on and turned "professional", an even smaller handful.

Lit is a way of doing an apprenticeship, certainly, but "most writers" doing this? Not much evidence to support this theory, that I can see.
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Old 10-30-2017, 03:01 PM   #34
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First, excuse my bad English. I think most of the incest stories here are ridiculously stupid yet they get high ratings. What I mean is the women always seem to just throw themselves at the lucky guy without any reason other than being a family member. It's stupid straight to sex stories with no drama or anything. I don't come to this site to jack off to such stories.. I come here for stories, for the drama.. If I want to jack off, then I come watch videos instead on porn sites.. Why and how do these ridiculously straight to sex stories get high ratings? It's like the writers are not even trying. I know the stories are free, but as I said, there is no drama whatsoever just boring straight to sex "come fuck me little/big brother, dad, uncle, etc"
If mine ever gets published, I hope you'll see a big difference (athough it isn't strictly incest - it's non-consent with a step-dad). Even so I pride myself in setting a scene first. Please watch out for it - Caught Wet Handed.

PS: Could be a week or two though - It's been rejected twice already
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Old 10-31-2017, 11:33 AM   #35
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If mine ever gets published, I hope you'll see a big difference (athough it isn't strictly incest - it's non-consent with a step-dad). Even so I pride myself in setting a scene first. Please watch out for it - Caught Wet Handed.

PS: Could be a week or two though - It's been rejected twice already
FYI - Non-consent is not popular in the incest category. Expect a rating at best in the low 4's.
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Old 11-04-2017, 12:58 PM   #36
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Hmm...

Stories no mater what type, are written for the writers pleasure. The story itself we put on paper (or other medium) that we feel deserves to be remembered. If we feel that someone else would like the story we may publish it. Some writers do not know how to go from point A to B then on to C and just jump to C. And there is nothing wrong with that.

NO two people have exactly the same likes or dislikes. We all walk our own path. Just because a story is rated high doesn't mean everyone will like it. Just as if one is rated low doesn't mean you wont like it. I tend to get: 1/100 readers to vote, 1/300 will comment and 13/5000 will send me feedback. I tend to use the rating system as a guide to find stories that I might like.

IF you like stories with substance, I would suggest looking at some of the multi-chapter ones.
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Old 11-05-2017, 08:16 PM   #37
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I wish the search system on literotica would let us filter by word count because that way I would automatically discard the stories that are 2 pages or under. I think that would solve much of the problem as the stories that are 2 pages or under are unlikely to have much build up. 3 pages is when stories start to have characterisation and build up though 5 or more pages is ideal.
That's not always true. There could be a one page story where the last paragraph is sex or a ten page fuck fest. Matter of fact I think my story Night Of The Maidens Love is only two pages and no real sex takes off until page two. Number of pages don't mean much, what does is the authors purpose.
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Old 11-05-2017, 08:24 PM   #38
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Going past two Literotica pages would be 7,500 words, far longer than the mainstream now allots to do everything you need to do in a short story. This push for longer at Literotica in the attempt to write a short story rather than a novella or novel (which is OK, if that's your goal) is an encouragement to throw words at the page rather than sculpting your phrases for maximum reveal as succinctly as possible. It also means if you let the Literotica need for verbosity in order to get nice comments and ratings from Philistine readers set into your writing style, you can forget moving on to writing short stories in the mainstream. You will have ingrained bad writing technique in exchange for Philistine readers.

This "it's got to be over two Literotica pages to be developed fully" is just a lot of crap connected with Literotica's preference for verbosity.
I don't think most realize a litpage is longer than a standard page, damn near a MSWord page and a half, almost three college ruled notebook pages.
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Old 11-05-2017, 08:38 PM   #39
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I don't think most realize a litpage is longer than a standard page, damn near a MSWord page and a half, almost three college ruled notebook pages.
A Lit page is approx 3750 words, which is more like 8-10 standard Word pages.
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Old 11-05-2017, 08:57 PM   #40
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Most of the stories here are written by writers who are trying to develop or hone their talents.
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Could be true- it is for me, even though I hardly ask for any advice. I still wouldn't say most, some might write just to write. There very well may be actual real authors here and I don't mean the rich and famous of Smashwords, I mean their works are found in the likes of Walmart or Barnes&Nobles and erotica is just a side gig. I wouldn't be surprised if the likes of Danielle Steele, R. L. Stien, or Sistah Souljah were on here. Hell the way some of the forum regs go on, and their high story counts, that one or two very well may be one of these authors. If Pilot or TxRad just came out and said; "I'm actually John Grisham, and this is nice break from boring ass law stories." I'd be like; "You bastard..." You never really know who's who, but many like myself are probably just hacks.
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Old 11-05-2017, 11:06 PM   #41
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I'm pretty sure I'm not John Gresham, because I run across him in the Food of All Nations gourmet shop out on 250 west of the University occasionally, and he's buying a lot more expensive stuff than I am. I'm what you'd call lower mid list. But I'm also not here to develop my writing. If it's not developed now, it's not going to be. It sounds kicky to say that a writer is always developing, but that just isn't true. A writer usually finds his/her voice/themes/style and they use it as they've found it. They aren't continually "developing" it. They most certainly don't post to Web sites like this for unvalidated strangers to develop their writing for them.
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Old 11-06-2017, 01:10 AM   #42
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I've only been writting like I have for a few years. I figured you weren't trying to hone skills here. But I'm using it to find my way, I guess, and the stuff I want to publish I can look at now, based off reading yours and others comments, it all need be rewritten. Which is fine seeing as not only is it a process, but I'd like to have a lot of stuff done, at least if a quarter of it is sale worthy, I'll have time for another batch. Actually one or two I actually started writing almost ten years ago...god damn...I've about got it down packed, though. As much as I hate throwing too much personal info out, like my age for various reasons, but I'm about to be thirty in less than six months, I need to get it together.
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Old 11-06-2017, 12:24 PM   #43
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What I find puzzling is that few use the feedback system to give helping assistance to writers. It's a tool that almost no one uses so that writers can improve, not only the existing work, but new works too. As a whole, I believe we should all work on our skills in this area. Not to be bootlickers or trolls, but to give honest helpful assistance to improve the quality of the writing here overall. Comments and ratings should be for "loving" or "hating" but feedback should be used to say: "I read your story and at the point on page 1 where you..." and should not be just an anon wham bam sentence without a return contact. If you're willing to open the subject, then you should be willing to continue the conversation.
I agree with your idea. I'd prefer that comments would be comments on the story and if a reader spots a mistake or has a serious critique of my writing, I'd prefer they send that to me as a PM.

My readers seemed to have learned about the "send me the mistakes by PM part". I have lots of readers who think that leaving a comment is the best way to provide a writing critique. Comments to my current story:
Quote:
Could've been better
I actually thought the pacing and build up sucked. And then you're writing needs a lot of work. Not enough depth to the emotions being felt and honestly the sex writing was weak.
Quote:
This is badly written. Very unexciting. I see people like it, but what the fuck? The tone is a flat dead tone. There is no life to this. The writing lacks energy.
Without some specific examples, I have no clue what those two commenters are talking about.
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Old 11-06-2017, 08:48 PM   #44
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I took a peek at the all time incest top list

#1-42 pages
#2 12 pages
#3 32 pages
#4 10 pages
#5 9 pages
#6 5 pages
#7 6 pages
#8 5 pages

#9 and 10 are 3 each but are chapters not stand alone stories

So not seeing where short is getting the high scores.
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Old 11-06-2017, 09:23 PM   #45
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I took a peek at the all time incest top list

#1-42 pages
#2 12 pages
#3 32 pages
#4 10 pages
#5 9 pages
#6 5 pages
#7 6 pages
#8 5 pages

#9 and 10 are 3 each but are chapters not stand alone stories

So not seeing where short is getting the high scores.
It all depends on what the OP's definition of "high scores" is. If it's "Top List worthy", then no, you're unlikely to find 1-2 page strokers anywhere (at least not on the front page).

If "high scores" to him is just "anything above a 4" or "anything with an H" then it makes sense, as there are plenty of short pieces which rank on that scale.
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:54 PM   #46
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Short not getting high scores is pretty much the Web site (and, therefore, general readership) making no differentiation between short stories and novels and the general readership not being too sophisticated in how to read them differently. This is a "longer is better" Web site environment. That's OK, as long as serious writers keep it in mind when assessing the comments and ratings they get. (This longer is better thing is one of Lovecraft68's hobby horses and tells, as is the obsession with the incest category. )
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Old 11-06-2017, 11:44 PM   #47
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"Straight to sex" has nothing to do with story length. There are plenty of 6+ Lit page stories where the sex begins a quarter of the way down page one and barely takes a break for the entire story long enough to change scenes never mind developing anything resembling plot.

As we've seen in some previous threads on the category, "straight to sex" is subjective as well. There are some readers who believe any story that progresses beyond kissing and fondling is nothing but unrealistic wank-fare.

There's one too many words in the title of this thread to tell the whole truth. Remove the word "Incest" and it's far more accurate. The entire site is heavy on the pure wank-fare side, and a large percentage of them rate above 4.
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Old 11-06-2017, 11:58 PM   #48
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I tend to keep my chapters around the 5K range. Keeps each chapter nice and compact, giving me enough space for plot and some sex. And not so long I lose the plot entirely. So far my fans like it.
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Old 11-07-2017, 02:09 PM   #49
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I've only been writting like I have for a few years. I figured you weren't trying to hone skills here. But I'm using it to find my way, I guess, and the stuff I want to publish I can look at now, based off reading yours and others comments, it all need be rewritten. Which is fine seeing as not only is it a process, but I'd like to have a lot of stuff done, at least if a quarter of it is sale worthy, I'll have time for another batch. Actually one or two I actually started writing almost ten years ago...god damn...I've about got it down packed, though. As much as I hate throwing too much personal info out, like my age for various reasons, but I'm about to be thirty in less than six months, I need to get it together.
Actually I AM trying to hone skills because writing is a perishable asset in a world where desired output constantly changes. On top of that it only takes one teensy tiny accidentally learned flaw and, just like in golf, your skills develop a mean slice or hook which can take a long time to get rid of. To be a consistently good writer, one MUST write and constantly seek to write well. So I practice here to keep my skills sharp and develop others.

I also use the stories to see what others think is good writing and what's in demand by the readership. And I can explore different writing styles/methods and POV's such as my recent foray into first person female POV for the very time time with that POV. And then there's the fact that I can write things here that I cannot get published IRL yet the restrictions that Laurel has in place on what she will allow also tell me that there are limits to what can be written no matter what the Muses want.

To me, it's a good thing that you can see where your previous works need improvement. I don't know that I've ever written anything that doesn't need some sort of tweaking or where I haven't wished I'd said something differently, but knowing that is a huge step from not seeing it at all.

THIRTY??? I'm 58 and have been writing since High School. I've only recently been professionally published so cut yourself some slack on the timeline. You've still got years to practice and get it together.
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Old 11-07-2017, 06:48 PM   #50
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It all depends on what the OP's definition of "high scores" is. If it's "Top List worthy", then no, you're unlikely to find 1-2 page strokers anywhere (at least not on the front page).

If "high scores" to him is just "anything above a 4" or "anything with an H" then it makes sense, as there are plenty of short pieces which rank on that scale.
Ah, okay. I was thinking they meant 'highest' scores, but you could be right and it could mean anything that has a hot rating or around there.
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