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Old 09-17-2017, 12:16 AM   #51
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I can explain stuff to you (and did), but I can't make you understand. Buzz off.
I edited my response, as I initially hadn't seen the entirety of your post - see above. If you don't want people to be rude, maybe maintain those standards yourself? Just a thought.
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Old 09-17-2017, 12:21 AM   #52
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Hi, i have been really pleased everyone has taken the time to reply to my thread. I read everything that people wrote, and it does shed a little light on it. It's made me try questioning why i like WW/BM interracial pornography and not other races, though i haven't come up with any conclusions just yet. It's clearly a complicated issue and it is interesting to hear other peoples views.One person said enthnocentirism or something like that and i have no idea what that means!
Hi PB ... in short, ethnocentrism means making judgements about other cultures based on the values of your own culture. The implication is that you assume your culture's value are 'right' or 'real' or whatever, while the values of other cultures aren't.
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Old 09-17-2017, 12:49 AM   #53
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Hi PB ... in short, ethnocentrism means making judgements about other cultures based on the values of your own culture. The implication is that you assume your culture's value are 'right' or 'real' or whatever, while the values of other cultures aren't.
The cultural projects from the personal. *I* am normal and y'all ain't. *My* culture, beliefs, and fetishes are commendable and yours ain't. It's solipsism: only *I* am real, and matter. Everything not-me is ignoble, disposable, probably fictive.

The lack of wide-ranging monocultures complicates the issue. USA is a cultural patchwork, not an integrated entity. Each subculture and mindset sports its own taboos, demands, and rituals. IR varies depending on who and where you are. IR stories can exploit these differential tensions. Hot spanking drama, yeah!
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Old 09-17-2017, 12:51 AM   #54
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The cultural projects from the personal. *I* am normal and y'all ain't. *My* culture, beliefs, and fetishes are commendable and yours ain't. It's solipsism: only *I* am real, and matter. Everything not-me is ignoble, disposable, probably fictive.

The lack of wide-ranging monocultures complicates the issue. USA is a cultural patchwork, not an integrated entity. Each subculture and mindset sports its own taboos, demands, and rituals. IR varies depending on who and where you are. IR stories can exploit these differential tensions. Hot spanking drama, yeah!
I wasn't really talking about ethnocentrism in respect of IR porn ... I was just defining the term.
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Old 09-17-2017, 02:11 AM   #55
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I wasn't really talking about ethnocentrism in respect of IR porn ... I was just defining the term.
*-centrism boils down to, "I / we be better than y'all. I / we be normal and y'all be aberrations. I / we be the standard against which all others are judged." In IR pr0n the implied master-slave dynamics are exploited or subverted. Cultural norms are threatened. My core is invaded by The Other. I am doomed. Fuck me again, you beast!
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Old 09-17-2017, 04:23 AM   #56
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Please forgive me, but I don't speak pseudo-political.
What's meant by "ethnocentrism"
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Old 09-17-2017, 06:29 AM   #57
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Old 09-17-2017, 06:50 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Handley_Page View Post
Please forgive me, but I don't speak pseudo-political.
What's meant by "ethnocentrism"
"My ethnicity is better than yours." Or more generally, "My ethnicity is just fine but yours is substandard." Wilipedia sez:
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Ethnocentrism is judging another culture solely by the values and standards of one's own culture. Ethnocentric individuals judge other groups relative to their own ethnic group or culture, especially with concern for language, behavior, customs, and religion. These ethnic distinctions and subdivisions serve to define each ethnicity's unique cultural identity. Ethnocentrism may be overt or subtle, and while it is considered a natural proclivity of human psychology in everyday life, it has developed a generally negative connotation. In anthropology, cultural relativism is seen as an antithesis and an antonym to ethnocentrism.
Because polygamy is common in my culture, your majority-monogamy culture is inferior, you swine.
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Old 09-17-2017, 07:28 AM   #59
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Old 09-17-2017, 07:31 AM   #60
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Old 09-17-2017, 08:40 AM   #61
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I've asked myself this question quite a lot. I think Bramblethorn, above, gets it right: there's nothing inherently racist about porn that features people of different races, obviously. But in the real world that's not what IR usually is about. Scan the top ranked IR stories at this site, or scan the tags list for the category, or Google "interracial sex", and it's clear that IR porn most commonly refers to a white woman, and very often a married white woman, getting it on with a black man. The portrayal of black men often fits very old and racist stereotypes. Racism is why there is perceived to be taboo involved in WW-BM sex, and the taboo is what gives it the thrill. So, yes, there is, undeniably, a racist element that underlies WW-BM IR porn.

But that doesn't mean, necessarily, that it "is" racist, or that you are a racist to participate in it, or to watch it. That's more complicated. An IR porn advocate might say that IR porn has helped to break down the taboo and make it more acceptable for anyone to get it on with anyone, race be damned.

Here's the question about IR porn that interests me: why do white men like it? Because I assume a lot of them do, and that the enjoyment by white men of this type of porn is, substantially, what drives its popularity. I assume this because the large majority of porn consumers are men, and most of those are white, and the seeming disproportionate popularity of this category of porn means a lot of white men must be watching it.

I'm working (slowly and fitfully) on an IR story that in one way or another poses this question. I'm trying to figure out what the basis for the appeal is for white male consumers of it:

Is it the thrill of breaking the taboo?

Is it a variation of the loving/slut wife fantasy?

Is it just the visual appeal of black and white skin together?

Do white male consumers identify in some way with the black male actors? Is there some sort of projection going on?

Is it a form of male submission fantasy?
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Old 09-17-2017, 09:24 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypoxia View Post
"My ethnicity is better than yours." Or more generally, "My ethnicity is just fine but yours is substandard." Wilipedia sez: Because polygamy is common in my culture, your majority-monogamy culture is inferior, you swine.
Ah, thank you. So, the old 'Imperial' Japanese were guilty of it a century ago ?
or in the time of the Shogun ?
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Old 09-17-2017, 11:18 AM   #63
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Many different factors would need to be considered on an individual case.
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Old 09-17-2017, 11:36 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Handley_Page View Post
Ah, thank you. So, the old 'Imperial' Japanese were guilty of it a century ago ?
or in the time of the Shogun ?
Everyone's guilty of it. Humanity is tribal; almost all of us are in tacit agreement with the beliefs of our tribe, and suspicious of other tribes. Thousands of years ago this probably made good sense - when you're competing for scarce resources, it makes sense to get territorial, support the tribe, and protect your farms and women from others. Individualism and anti-tribalism meant you had no friends and no resources; you got weeded out fast.

Fast forward to now. Resources are no longer scare unless you're unfortunate enough to live in certain third world countries. Resources are everywhere - if you're able to trade for them, with other tribes. My favorite example is the iPhone - parts sourced all over the world, mostly from places which do not match your tribal assumptions and beliefs. Even in my grandfather's day, many people would have refused to buy it - not manufactured by my tribe. But if you're a 20something, it or its equivalents are now must-have. Tribalism doesn't come into it because the person you buy it from is American like you. Same accent and everything!

So all hail capitalism, which defeats tribalism? Hardly. Tribalism is very alive and well. My favorite example is American liberalism. When it comes to preaching anti-tribalism and all-inclusiveness, it has no equal. Everything is a rainbow and a namaste and bucketfuls of nonjudgementalism. Until I mention I'm an evangelical. At best I get a pained smile and an "oh... that's ok I guess". At worst I get a rabid response. Because liberalism is a tribe defined by people who hold an (incomplete) form of anti-tribalism as their defining characteristic, and if you don't you're not part of the tribe.

I kind of miss the hippie era. At least then if you said I'm in X, whether X was Christian or Rastafarian or pumpkin pie fan, they'd say "ok, that's cool" and they meant it. Of course, smoking weed every day does kind of mess with the critical judgement facilities, but at least they were nice.

It's no better on my side of the fence. I've known plenty of Christians who are freaked out by muslims and gays. Odd, because it's Christianity that talks about all-inclusiveness repeatedly in the source documents. I've heard Christians ranting about keeping muslims out of the country, which is odd because if you want to witness to someone, nothing beats having them local. But a lot of people have set their radios to the tribalism of Rush Limbaugh and his ilk and stopped paying attention to the source documents.

Politics over immigration? Tribalism. Gay vs Straight? Tribalism. Protesters throwing rocks at a freaking library because they didn't like a judicial outcome? Tribalism. Our genes keep whispering "hang with the tribe or die", and until we figure out that we're supposed to be better than our genes, things don't improve.

This needs a cheerful ending. Um.

How do you milk a sheep?

Charge him $1000 for an iPhone X.

Yeah. Apple fans - not my tribe.
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Old 09-17-2017, 11:57 AM   #65
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Now in my opinion in this case, you writing the N word is an act of racism, enough of those acts and you could be considered a racist.
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Old 09-17-2017, 11:58 AM   #66
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I don't think IR porn would be a genre if it was just about sexual partners who just happened to be of different races.

I don't think IR porn would be a genre if it was all about demonstrating inclusiveness, acceptance or breaking down racial stereotypes.

I do think that IR porn disproportionately represents certain combinations and tends to include a race based power dynamic.

It is possible to have IR porn that isn't racist. But a lot of it is. I tend to think that in a society truly free of racism IR would be no more a genre than brunette porn.
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Old 09-17-2017, 12:21 PM   #67
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I tend to think that in a society truly free of racism IR would be no more a genre than brunette porn.
Yes. You can tell exactly what progress a culture has made on tribalism - including racial issues, misogyny, even politics - by looking at ads on porn sites. The thinking being that porn operators have done their market research and know what draws people, so it's a fair assessment of what people gravitate to in secret.

As far as I can tell, western civ is not doing so well.
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Old 09-17-2017, 12:26 PM   #68
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Everyone's guilty of it. Humanity is tribal; almost all of us are in tacit agreement with the beliefs of our tribe, and suspicious of other tribes. Thousands of years ago this probably made good sense - when you're competing for scarce resources, it makes sense to get territorial, support the tribe, and protect your farms and women from others. Individualism and anti-tribalism meant you had no friends and no resources; you got weeded out fast.

Fast forward to now. Resources are no longer scare unless you're unfortunate enough to live in certain third world countries. Resources are everywhere - if you're able to trade for them, with other tribes. My favorite example is the iPhone - parts sourced all over the world, mostly from places which do not match your tribal assumptions and beliefs. Even in my grandfather's day, many people would have refused to buy it - not manufactured by my tribe. But if you're a 20something, it or its equivalents are now must-have. Tribalism doesn't come into it because the person you buy it from is American like you. Same accent and everything!

So all hail capitalism, which defeats tribalism? Hardly. Tribalism is very alive and well. My favorite example is American liberalism. When it comes to preaching anti-tribalism and all-inclusiveness, it has no equal. Everything is a rainbow and a namaste and bucketfuls of nonjudgementalism. Until I mention I'm an evangelical. At best I get a pained smile and an "oh... that's ok I guess". At worst I get a rabid response. Because liberalism is a tribe defined by people who hold an (incomplete) form of anti-tribalism as their defining characteristic, and if you don't you're not part of the tribe.

I kind of miss the hippie era. At least then if you said I'm in X, whether X was Christian or Rastafarian or pumpkin pie fan, they'd say "ok, that's cool" and they meant it. Of course, smoking weed every day does kind of mess with the critical judgement facilities, but at least they were nice.

It's no better on my side of the fence. I've known plenty of Christians who are freaked out by muslims and gays. Odd, because it's Christianity that talks about all-inclusiveness repeatedly in the source documents. I've heard Christians ranting about keeping muslims out of the country, which is odd because if you want to witness to someone, nothing beats having them local. But a lot of people have set their radios to the tribalism of Rush Limbaugh and his ilk and stopped paying attention to the source documents.

Politics over immigration? Tribalism. Gay vs Straight? Tribalism. Protesters throwing rocks at a freaking library because they didn't like a judicial outcome? Tribalism. Our genes keep whispering "hang with the tribe or die", and until we figure out that we're supposed to be better than our genes, things don't improve.

This needs a cheerful ending. Um.

How do you milk a sheep?

Charge him $1000 for an iPhone X.

Yeah. Apple fans - not my tribe.


You have gone well beyond the topic of IR porn here. However, I am in general agreement.

When we look at our society we see winners and losers of racism, sexism and every other 'ism. The "losers" protest on the basis that they are after justice. In many case what they are after is a better circumstance for themselves which just happens to equate with justice. Black males oppose racism because they are on the losing end of it but they have no problem being on the winning end of sexism and don't feel bad for being anti-gay. And if blacks were the dominant tribe there is no reason to believe that they would be any more just with the less dominant tribes.

But we choose to see it otherwise. We choose to see the "losing" tribe as more virtuous and the "winning" tribe as more evil. And we choose to see both as a collective - all member of each tribe are evil or virtuous regardless of their individual conduct. So "winning" tribes deserve their comeuppance and "losing" tribes are entitled to claim their due from any member of the "winning" tribe that they encounter.

Let's be honest IT porn trades in these tribal notions. Promoting racism is part of the same trade as using racism as an excuse for hostile behaviour. The portrayal of the black male and the white woman in most IR porn is racist. We accept it because the zeitgeist says whites deserve it.
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Old 09-17-2017, 01:55 PM   #69
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Keep in mind that we're in LIT fantasyland. Our stroker stories are fantasies. We find eager audiences for incest and racial and wimp and group and control fantasies. We have fucking unicorns and shapeshifters. All these can play on social tensions and tribal dynamics as well as whatever themes we wish to explore.

But these fantasies are sexist and ageist and racist and speciesist and anatomist and more. We don't want true sex stories about incest and race and control -- they're ugly, not erotic. Reality sucks.

So, to lube the wet-dreams, we exploit the stereotypes. She's a white wife craving big black cocks. He's a willing wimp anxious to see his wife impaled by BBCs. It's all recorded so it can be leaked online. Mom and Dad see the vids and want that BBC too. Fuckathon!

Conclusion: Humanity are a pretty pathetic lot. So we can only improve, right?
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Old 09-17-2017, 02:19 PM   #70
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Everyone's guilty of it. Humanity is tribal; almost all of us are in tacit agreement with the beliefs of our tribe, and suspicious of other tribes. Thousands of years ago this probably made good sense - when you're competing for scarce resources, it makes sense to get territorial, support the tribe, and protect your farms and women from others. Individualism and anti-tribalism meant you had no friends and no resources; you got weeded out fast.

Fast forward to now. Resources are no longer scare unless you're unfortunate enough to live in certain third world countries. Resources are everywhere - if you're able to trade for them, with other tribes. My favorite example is the iPhone - parts sourced all over the world, mostly from places which do not match your tribal assumptions and beliefs. Even in my grandfather's day, many people would have refused to buy it - not manufactured by my tribe. But if you're a 20something, it or its equivalents are now must-have. Tribalism doesn't come into it because the person you buy it from is American like you. Same accent and everything!

So all hail capitalism, which defeats tribalism? Hardly. Tribalism is very alive and well. My favorite example is American liberalism. When it comes to preaching anti-tribalism and all-inclusiveness, it has no equal. Everything is a rainbow and a namaste and bucketfuls of nonjudgementalism. Until I mention I'm an evangelical. At best I get a pained smile and an "oh... that's ok I guess". At worst I get a rabid response. Because liberalism is a tribe defined by people who hold an (incomplete) form of anti-tribalism as their defining characteristic, and if you don't you're not part of the tribe.

I kind of miss the hippie era. At least then if you said I'm in X, whether X was Christian or Rastafarian or pumpkin pie fan, they'd say "ok, that's cool" and they meant it. Of course, smoking weed every day does kind of mess with the critical judgement facilities, but at least they were nice.

It's no better on my side of the fence. I've known plenty of Christians who are freaked out by muslims and gays. Odd, because it's Christianity that talks about all-inclusiveness repeatedly in the source documents. I've heard Christians ranting about keeping muslims out of the country, which is odd because if you want to witness to someone, nothing beats having them local. But a lot of people have set their radios to the tribalism of Rush Limbaugh and his ilk and stopped paying attention to the source documents.

Politics over immigration? Tribalism. Gay vs Straight? Tribalism. Protesters throwing rocks at a freaking library because they didn't like a judicial outcome? Tribalism. Our genes keep whispering "hang with the tribe or die", and until we figure out that we're supposed to be better than our genes, things don't improve.

This needs a cheerful ending. Um.

How do you milk a sheep?

Charge him $1000 for an iPhone X.

Yeah. Apple fans - not my tribe.
Its more like YOUR TRIBE ARE STOOPID SHITZ AND MY TRIBE ROCKS.
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Old 09-17-2017, 03:31 PM   #71
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No, just that.
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Old 09-17-2017, 05:22 PM   #72
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There was a discussion at work today that i heard when someone said that all interracial porn was racist. Everyone just agreed with him and no one contested it, i would have done but i didn't understand what he was getting at.
People who are intent on seeing racism usually find something eventually.
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Old 09-17-2017, 06:37 PM   #73
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I've asked myself this question quite a lot. I think Bramblethorn, above, gets it right: there's nothing inherently racist about porn that features people of different races, obviously. But in the real world that's not what IR usually is about.
FWIW, I've seen several movies featuring Black/White/Asian/Indian people getting it on with one another, with not a hint of anything that I'd consider racist. But that stuff doesn't get marketed as IR... which says something about what's expected of IR.

Quote:
But that doesn't mean, necessarily, that it "is" racist, or that you are a racist to participate in it, or to watch it. That's more complicated. An IR porn advocate might say that IR porn has helped to break down the taboo and make it more acceptable for anyone to get it on with anyone, race be damned.
The way I see it, IR porn is a little bit like collecting certain kinds of war souvenirs.

I used to live in a small town, and there was a guy I saw around occasionally. I didn't know him but he was pretty hard to miss; he had two metal hook-hands, and I think prosthetics in his legs as well. He would have been in his mid-twenties. Because one day a bunch of bored teenagers found an old artillery shell in somebody's stuff, and got to playing with it.

Keeping an artillery shell on the mantelpiece doesn't mean you want to kill anybody or start another war. It's possible to be a peace-loving soul and still be fascinated by war; I certainly was, at one stage.

But if you're going to keep that artillery shell, it's important to understand that it's a thing that was built to kill and maim, and it's definitely your responsibility to be ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that it's inert.

So it is with IR porn. Enjoying it doesn't make you a racist or a bad person, but it's a good idea to understand why the genre exists, and why it appeals to you.
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Old 09-17-2017, 06:54 PM   #74
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Personally, I think having it as a special category is racist. It's irritated the crap out of me if people suggest my marriage is some sort of 'fetish', and fetishising particular ethnicities always makes me uneasy. People of different ethnicities having sex are ultimately just people having sex - race-tagging them is unnecessary.
However, I can see that cultural difference can create interesting narrative aspects. I don't think most 'interracial porn' is based on that though.
I agree. The fact that an IR category is needed is testimony to the fact that there's still a "squick factor" due to some people having trouble with people of different races.

And, as you point out, that's a cultural issue. But I think that IR porn is indeed based on that unfamiliarity, which sets up the framework for creating the distorted world-view that the porn portrays.

Maybe someday IR will be obsolete as a category, and as weird-sounding as "blonde porn" or "tall porn."
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Old 09-18-2017, 07:14 AM   #75
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...

Maybe someday IR will be obsolete as a category, and as weird-sounding as "blonde porn" or "tall porn."
There are even more weird categories - foot porn; amputee porn; toe-sucking...
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