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Old 08-01-2017, 10:42 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by DawnODay View Post
Thanks for the kudos!



You wrote: "Walker us a dousche." Care to elaborate. That's not very specific.
I'm sort of a douche myself. I like to use my tongue to clean off pussies.
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Old 08-02-2017, 02:03 PM   #27
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It just keeps getting better:

Foxconn factory could lead to $1B Corning plant in Wisconsin


And for video:

Foxconn possibly attracting glass maker Corning to SE Wisconsin
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Old 08-02-2017, 04:18 PM   #28
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Approving $3 billion in give-aways and so far only a memorandum of understanding subject to state legislature approval. Ya'll are counting (and giving away) a lot of pre-hatched chickens.
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Old 08-02-2017, 10:13 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by dan_c00000 View Post
"Counting," perhaps, but not "giving away."

First, as I have pointed out before, it's not that Wisconsin is giving $3 billion dollars to Foxconn. These are mostly tax credits and waivers on taxes we would not have collected anyway had Foxconn not come.

Second, that being so, nothing is lost if Foxconn does not live up to its side of the agreement. We just have the status quo ante.

So your point is rather, well... pointless.
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Old 08-03-2017, 11:56 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by DawnODay View Post
nothing is lost if Foxconn does not live up to its side of the agreement.
Except Scott Walker's and your's dignity. Let's see how this turns out in a few years.


I think it's funny how the GOP are such massive hypocrites that during the recovery most jobs were in the lower wage category and bitched and moaned at how bad Obama was. But now a warehouse moves into town offering jobs that pay the same it's the greatest thing since racism.
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Old 08-03-2017, 06:50 PM   #31
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I think it's funny how the GOP are such massive hypocrites that during the recovery most jobs were in the lower wage category and bitched and moaned at how bad Obama was. But now a warehouse moves into town offering jobs that pay the same it's the greatest thing since racism.
I can't speak for the GOP, which is what you accuse of hypocrisy here (an accusation they do deserve in other contexts, but I don't think so here). I am not a Republican. I do read several conservative commentators, however, and I can tell you the criticism I read was not about the type of jobs (it is important to have a good supply of entry-level jobs), but the fact that the ACA and other federal regulations as enacted or interpreted by the Obama Administration promoted businesses to offer only part-time (< 30 hours) employment to avoid the cost of mandated benefits, a fact confirmed by this Vanderbilt University study:

M. Dillender, C. Heinrich, S. Houseman, Effects of the Affordable Care Act on Part-Time Employment: Early Evidence (June 2016).

From its abstract:
Using monthly CPS data, we estimate that the ACA resulted in an increase in low-hours, involuntary part-time employment of a half-million to a million workers in retail, accommodations, and food services, the sectors in which employers are most likely to reduce hours if they choose to circumvent the mandate, and also the sectors in which low-wage workers are most likely to be affected.

The Obama years saw record low workforce participation numbers. The only reason the unemployment rate went so low is that it only counts those actively seeking work. I think the point of this thread is that while Government actions can hurt the economy, it's only by Government inaction, primarily manifested by lower taxes and limited regulation, that the economy remains healthy.

The Obama Administration's increased burdens on businesses, especially small businesses, greatly prolonged the effects of the 2008 recession. What happens to a state's economy when regulation is reduced to reasonable levels and taxes lowered is demonstrated by what's been happening in Wisconsin since Walker become governor. We are seeing the same thing nationally as the Trump Administration rolls back much of Obama's over-regulation (a fact that's gotten past the Left as they remain focused on the Russian diversion). Now, we just need Congress to do its part.
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Old 08-03-2017, 07:06 PM   #32
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FoxxConn Will Bail On Wisconson Factory

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/201...onn-plant.html

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/fox...ews-2017-07-27

https://www.bizjournals.com/milwauke...nsin-next.html

Keep filling the swamp with your fountains of shit, IL DOUCHE.
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Old 08-03-2017, 08:06 PM   #33
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Always a possibility, but we will see.

If the plans come to fruition, will you accept that Trump and Walker did a good job?

(And why "IL DOUCHE"? Where did that come from?)
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Old 08-03-2017, 08:57 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrincepsCyberius View Post
The Obama years saw record low workforce participation numbers. The only reason the unemployment rate went so low is that it only counts those actively seeking work. I think the point of this thread is that while Government actions can hurt the economy, it's only by Government inaction, primarily manifested by lower taxes and limited regulation, that the economy remains healthy.


As has been explained over and over, the workforce participation rate is dropping due primarily to the aging population, most notably the fact that the baby boomers are beginning to retire.

The workforce participation rate has been essentially unchanged for the last 2 years, when it ticked up from its 21st century low. It was 62.9 percent in January and 62.8 percent in June (I assume we get July figures tomorrow).

I will keep updating this figure as events warrant, since I'm assuming the conservatives here aren't going to want to talk about this as often as they did the preceding 8 years.
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Old 08-03-2017, 09:03 PM   #35
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A. Giaritelli, June marked highest month for US workforce participation since 2010, The Washington Examiner (July 6, 2017).

Watch the accompanying video for the full picture!
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Old 08-03-2017, 09:22 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Wrong Element View Post
As has been explained over and over, the workforce participation rate is dropping due primarily to the aging population, most notably the fact that the baby boomers are beginning to retire.

The workforce participation rate has been essentially unchanged for the last 2 years, when it ticked up from its 21st century low. It was 62.9 percent in January and 62.8 percent in June (I assume we get July figures tomorrow).

I will keep updating this figure as events warrant, since I'm assuming the conservatives here aren't going to want to talk about this as often as they did the preceding 8 years.
Retired people are not usually considered to be part of the workforce.
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Old 08-03-2017, 10:41 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrong Element View Post
As has been explained over and over, the workforce participation rate is dropping due primarily to the aging population, most notably the fact that the baby boomers are beginning to retire.

....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxlicker101 View Post
Retired people are not usually considered to be part of the workforce.
Boom! You destroyed him.

Of course workforce participation rate does not take retirees into account, just like it does not take children under 16 into account. To be part of the equation you must "be actively looking for a job," which, of course, retirees are not. So much for his credibility on this matter.

(Indeed, if you apply to him the same standard that has been applied to me and other conservatives elsewhere on Lit, because he got this wrong, we can now disregard anything more he has to say on any topic at any time. I, however, do not play by such childish rules. He lost here, though.)

Last edited by DawnODay : 08-03-2017 at 10:45 PM.
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Old 08-04-2017, 06:18 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by PrincepsCyberius View Post
Always a possibility, but we will see.

If the plans come to fruition, will you accept that Trump and Walker did a good job?

(And why "IL DOUCHE"? Where did that come from?)
Benito Mussolini? IL DUCE?
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Old 08-05-2017, 01:52 AM   #39
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We've been seeing more and more of this throughout the Walker administration - Public hearings that really don't qualify as public hearings. Yesterday's Foxconn bill public hearing was, as is typical now, stacked. Invited spearkers (meaning those in favor of the bill) spoke for eight hours, from 1:30 to 9:30, and then the public was allowed to testify.

By that point, of course, most of the public had gotten the message, thrown up their hands, and had gone home. Exactly the intended effect. These are not public hearings, they are GOP press conferences with a few questions from the public tacked on to the end.

https://www.uppitywis.org/blogarticl...-buries-public

Foxconn wants permission to treat Wisconsin like a third world country ?

Wisconsin League of Conservation Voters asks legislators to get the job done right – protect their constituents’ public health and water resources by rejecting the sweeping anti-conservation exemptions in the Foxconn bill.”

https://www.uppitywis.org/content/le...ources-foxconn

Here we go again - emergency legislation for something that really requires some thought - or at least reading the bill. The Governor has ordered up a special legislative session tomorrow morning to consider the "Foxconn Bill" to offer money, tax breaks, and the ability to run over the environment in Southeast Wisconsin.

https://www.uppitywis.org



How much money will be needed to clean up, after FoxConn pollutes the land and poisons employees ?

Remember Superfund ?

The Ugly Truth: Mass. Superfund Sites Still Toxic Nearly 30 Years And More Than $1B Later


http://legacy.wbur.org/2011/05/22/ma-superfund-sites

It is 2017, not 1917. This should not happen, again. They cannot plead ignorance.
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Old 08-05-2017, 12:41 PM   #40
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I live in Caledonia, Wisconsin, rather close to where this plant will apparently be built, so I have followed this environmental issue pretty closely. I'd describe myself as a "conservationist" rather than an "environmentalist." "Environmentalists" these days seem to oppose all industrial development, and that's not just silly, it's unfair to the poor and middle class people for whom such development provides employment. As a "conservationist" I have no objection to development, so long as the environmental impact is appropriately mitigated.

This article appeared in our local paper a couple of days ago:

M. Schaaf, Local Foxconn incentives could be backed by state, Racine Journal Times (Aug 3, 2017).

An excerpt:
Vos said federal environmental regulations remain in place and the bill raises requirements for disturbing wetlands. The legislation dictates that 2 acres of wetlands, instead of the normal 1.2 acres, must be created for every one acre of wetland disturbed.
The "Vos" referred to in that paragraph is State Representative Robin Vos, who represents western Racine County, the very area that would suffer any negative environmental impact from the Foxconn plant. As he points out, his constituents remain protected by all Federal environmental regulations, and are actually going to benefit from enhanced wetland remediation. I doubt he would support the project if it involved any serious environmental risk to the people on whose votes he must depend for his job.

Don't be fooled: Most of the opposition to the Foxconn project, even that allegedly based on the environment, is all about not wanting Scott Walker to get a "win." Wisconsin is booming under Republican leadership. Walker has indicated he will probably run for another term and if the current economic trends continue in Wisconsin, he'll be almost impossible to beat. That's the primary reason the Left opposes this deal which will create thousands of jobs for the poor and blue collar people the Democrats claim to represent.
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Old 08-05-2017, 01:43 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by PrincepsCyberius View Post
I live in Caledonia, Wisconsin, rather close to where this plant will apparently be built, so I have followed this environmental issue pretty closely. I'd describe myself as a "conservationist" rather than an "environmentalist." "Environmentalists" these days seem to oppose all industrial development, and that's not just silly, it's unfair to the poor and middle class people for whom such development provides employment. As a "conservationist" I have no objection to development, so long as the environmental impact is appropriately mitigated.

This article appeared in our local paper a couple of days ago:

M. Schaaf, Local Foxconn incentives could be backed by state, Racine Journal Times (Aug 3, 2017).

An excerpt:
Vos said federal environmental regulations remain in place and the bill raises requirements for disturbing wetlands. The legislation dictates that 2 acres of wetlands, instead of the normal 1.2 acres, must be created for every one acre of wetland disturbed.
The "Vos" referred to in that paragraph is State Representative Robin Vos, who represents western Racine County, the very area that would suffer any negative environmental impact from the Foxconn plant. As he points out, his constituents remain protected by all Federal environmental regulations, and are actually going to benefit from enhanced wetland remediation. I doubt he would support the project if it involved any serious environmental risk to the people on whose votes he must depend for his job.

Don't be fooled: Most of the opposition to the Foxconn project, even that allegedly based on the environment, is all about not wanting Scott Walker to get a "win." Wisconsin is booming under Republican leadership. Walker has indicated he will probably run for another term and if the current economic trends continue in Wisconsin, he'll be almost impossible to beat. That's the primary reason the Left opposes this deal which will create thousands of jobs for the poor and blue collar people the Democrats claim to represent.
I was under the impression the Foxconn facility would be in the old AMC (AKA Chrysler) plant in Kenosha. That would be thirty or so miles from western Racine County and about ten miles from the town of Caledonia
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Old 08-05-2017, 03:03 PM   #42
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I was under the impression the Foxconn facility would be in the old AMC (AKA Chrysler) plant in Kenosha. That would be thirty or so miles from western Racine County and about ten miles from the town of Caledonia
If you look at the article I cited, it plainly indicates they have yet to "pick a site." Apparently Racine is not certain, either. The article indicates the State "would offer some protection to Racine County taxpayers if Foxconn chose the county for its massive manufacturing campus" (emphasis added).

The only thing I have heard in regard to the old AMC plant is that apparently during a recent trip to Wisconsin, Trump made reference to it being a good place for redevelopment. The problem with old automotive plants is that their soils tend to contain a lot of heavy metals, like lead, mercury, and chromium, and other contaminants that you want to avoid disturbing with new construction. There is an old Case tractor plant on the south side of Racine that they basically have just left as acres upon acres of vacant lot for that reason.

There have been several articles that suggest in will be in Racine County by I-94. That makes logistical sense. Also, in the article quoted above, they speak of re-mediating wetlands and putting in "roads, infrastructure, water, sewer." That would not be necessary at the AMC plant, but it would be out by the interstate.
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Old 08-08-2017, 08:15 PM   #43
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As has been explained over and over, the workforce participation rate is dropping due primarily to the aging population, most notably the fact that the baby boomers are beginning to retire.

The workforce participation rate has been essentially unchanged for the last 2 years, when it ticked up from its 21st century low. It was 62.9 percent in January and 62.8 percent in June (I assume we get July figures tomorrow).

I will keep updating this figure as events warrant, since I'm assuming the conservatives here aren't going to want to talk about this as often as they did the preceding 8 years.
Quote:
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Retired people are not usually considered to be part of the workforce.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DawnODay View Post
Boom! You destroyed him.

Of course workforce participation rate does not take retirees into account, just like it does not take children under 16 into account. To be part of the equation you must "be actively looking for a job," which, of course, retirees are not. So much for his credibility on this matter.

(Indeed, if you apply to him the same standard that has been applied to me and other conservatives elsewhere on Lit, because he got this wrong, we can now disregard anything more he has to say on any topic at any time. I, however, do not play by such childish rules. He lost here, though.)
You guys nailed him!

I notice he hasn't tried to defend his position. Wrong Element apparently knows you caught him in a lie.
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Old 08-08-2017, 09:17 PM   #44
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Survey says! 👎🏻
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Old 08-08-2017, 11:16 PM   #45
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Not exactly ringing popular support.
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Old 08-09-2017, 10:35 AM   #46
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Not exactly ringing popular support.
And for good reason.
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Old 08-09-2017, 11:40 AM   #47
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And for good reason.
I'm sure this Foxconn deal will blow an even bigger hole in the budget.
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Old 08-09-2017, 08:47 PM   #48
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I'm sure this Foxconn deal will blow an even bigger hole in the budget.
Wisconsin has a biannual budget.

Every two years since Scott Walker has become Governor, the press has breathlessly run stories of how his cutting taxes but devoting more money to things like education and transportation would lead Wisconsin to a deficit. Nevertheless, every budget under Walker has balanced and led to a surplus.

Here's a report about this I think you will all appreciate!

This is just more of the same. Again, the press claims there's going to be a deficit, then a balanced budget will pass, and in the end there will be a surplus.

If, at the end of the current budget cycle, I am wrong, I here publicly promise I will devote a thread to my shame. Please, mark that down and hold me to it.

(You see, Dan, I'm willing to stand by what I write here and accept the consequences if I'm wrong. Meanwhile, there's this.)
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Old 08-10-2017, 08:51 AM   #49
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And for good reason.
There is a fallacy in this analysis. It is based on the assumption that Foxconn would have come to Wisconsin even without the tax incentives. As I have pointed out twice before, it's not that Wisconsin is giving $3 billion dollars to Foxconn. These are mostly tax credits and waivers on taxes we would not have collected anyway had Foxconn not come. Any economic development and resultant revenue as a result of the Foxconn deal (which includes that from the contractors who build and later service the plant) is revenue that would not have come in without the Foxconn deal, so it begins reaping benefits, including positive revenues, from the first day a shovel hits soil.

It is quite clear that Foxconn would not have come to Wisconsin but for these tax credits. Several other states bid for the plant. Apparently, Ohio offered far more than $3 billion, but Foxconn picked Wisconsin because it is a Right to Work state, and Ohio is not. Right to Work is another improvement in the Wisconsin economic climate since Walker became governor.

As the thread began: Hooray for Scott Walker!
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Old 08-10-2017, 10:12 AM   #50
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There is a fallacy in this analysis. It is based on the assumption that Foxconn would have come to Wisconsin even without the tax incentives. As I have pointed out twice before, it's not that Wisconsin is giving $3 billion dollars to Foxconn. These are mostly tax credits and waivers on taxes we would not have collected anyway had Foxconn not come. Any economic development and resultant revenue as a result of the Foxconn deal (which includes that from the contractors who build and later service the plant) is revenue that would not have come in without the Foxconn deal, so it begins reaping benefits, including positive revenues, from the first day a shovel hits soil.

It is quite clear that Foxconn would not have come to Wisconsin but for these tax credits. Several other states bid for the plant. Apparently, Ohio offered far more than $3 billion, but Foxconn picked Wisconsin because it is a Right to Work state, and Ohio is not. Right to Work is another improvement in the Wisconsin economic climate since Walker became governor.

As the thread began: Hooray for Scott Walker!
No, there is not. Just ask Senate Rupublicans.

Quote:

Fitzgerald said it was "striking" that a report issued this week by the Legislative Fiscal Bureau found that state taxpayers would not recoup their investment in Foxconn until 2043. The bureau described that timeline as the best-case scenario, with the Wisconsin plant fully operational and spawning job growth at suppliers and other companies that would come to the area.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/news/p...nts/551856001/
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