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Old 07-28-2017, 08:46 AM   #1
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Hooray for Scott Walker!

As part of a post on another thread, I wrote something I thought significant enough on its own to deserve a separate thread. Here it is, edited a bit to better fit this context.
Wisconsin's prior governor, Jim Doyle, was very anti-business and his taxing and spending had Wisconsin going the way of Illinois. Even after ill-advisedly and in one case illegally raiding other funds to try to balance his budget,* Doyle left Scott Walker with a >$3 billion deficit when Walker became governor. By various business and citizen friendly policies, Walker turned the state around. He not only balanced the budget every year, he produced a surplus, all while lowering taxes. When Doyle was Governor, our schools had to lay off teachers because they were so poorly funded. Under Walker, teacher hiring is up, as is school funding. Businesses were fleeing Wisconsin under Doyle, they are flocking here under Walker.

Just yesterday:




In response to this, someone wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxlicker101 View Post
I have heard there is also a lot of new investment in Kenosha County.
To which I could happily reply:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DawnODay View Post
O, gosh yes, featuring, but certainly not limited to, two (count`em, TWO!) huge Amazon distribution warehouses.

Now, to be honest, we can't give Scott Walker all the credit for this. What the Democrats have done to the business climate in Illinois has a lot to do with why Kenosha County, which is the Wisconsin county closest to Chicago, is booming. On the other hand, had Jim Doyle remained as governor, as I explained above, Wisconsin would have probably become the economic basket case the Democrats have made Illinois.
Wisconsinites need only look across the state's southern border to understand why electing, and now twice reelecting,** Scott Walker as governor was the best thing they could have done for their state. I partly wish he had won his bid for the presidency. On the other hand, I'm so happy he's still here in Wisconsin.

-----

* In the case of illegally drawing funds, Doyle took money from a trust fund established to help victims of medical malpractice (how cruel)! This money had to be paid back during the Walker Administration, which nonetheless balanced its budget (and ran a surplus) while lowering taxes.

** The first reelection was the result of a recall campaign the Democrats brought, NOT based on any alleged impropriety or malfeasance in office (Walker is literally an Eagle Scout), but simply because they didn't like Walker's success in implementing the policies a majority of Wisconsinites had sent him and a Republican controlled legislature to Madison to enact. Walker won the recall election, becoming the first and only incumbent governor anywhere in the USA to ever do so, with a greater majority than had elected him in the first place!
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Old 07-28-2017, 09:02 AM   #2
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How much is it going to cost Wisconsin in incentives to bring FoxConn to Wisconsin?

How much will the jobs pay?

How many jobs will there be, really?

How many of the jobs will go to Wisconsin (vs. Illinois) residents?

Will FoxConn actually follow through with any of this plan?
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Old 07-28-2017, 09:05 AM   #3
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Breaking News: Scott Walker Fucks Over his Constitutents for a Photo Op while Vowing to Turn Wisconsin into Bangladesh


Quote:
But the deal with Foxconn, the Taiwanese electronics supplier, comes with a heavy price tag for Wisconsin taxpayers: $3 billion in state tax credits that dwarf the typical incentive package companies receive from local governments.

Even as Mr. Walker celebrated the news with Foxconn executives at a rally at the Milwaukee Art Museum on Thursday, experts on the political left and right alike said the rewards were not justified by the cost of the tax breaks.

Over all, the subsidies for the Foxconn plant, which would produce flat-panel display screens for televisions and other consumer electronics, equal $15,000 to $19,000 per job annually.

That compares with $2,457 per year in the usual incentive arrangement, according to Timothy J. Bartik, a senior economist at the W.E. Upjohn Institute for Employment Research in Kalamazoo, Mich. The new Foxconn jobs are expected to have an annual salary of at least $53,000 plus benefits, according to Mr. Walker.

“It’s a very, very costly package, and I’m skeptical that the benefits justify such big incentives,” Mr. Bartik said. “This is well beyond the typical deal.”

The White House and Wisconsin officials said Foxconn’s investment will create at least 3,000 jobs initially, with up to 22,000 more coming indirectly in the future as suppliers spring up and other local businesses benefit from the new plant.

If Foxconn lives up to its investment commitment and receives the full $3 billion tax break, it will be the fourth-largest incentive deal in United States history, according to Greg LeRoy, executive director of Good Jobs First, a nonpartisan nonprofit research group in Washington that tracks economic development subsidies.

“We can only describe this as a gift from Wisconsin taxpayers to Foxconn shareholders,” Mr. LeRoy said. “This is a guaranteed loser for the state.”
NOTE THE FINE PRINT: Only 3,000 jobs created. Wisconsin paying through the nose for 3,000 jobs and a photo-op with the most hated President in US History. AWESOME
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Old 07-28-2017, 10:41 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Carnal_Flower View Post
NOTE THE FINE PRINT: Only 3,000 jobs created. Wisconsin paying through the nose for 3,000 jobs and a photo-op with the most hated President in US History. AWESOME
Three thousand jobs. Three billion bucks in incentives. This will cost the state (i.e. TAXPAYERS) one million dollars per job.

Sounds to me like socialism.
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Old 07-28-2017, 11:32 AM   #5
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Foxconn promised Pennsylvania the same thing. It didn't turn out so well. This is one of those classic "race to the bottom" type moves where the business pays no taxes, hires a bunch of people it can fire easily, and then moves out in a year and a half. It's also estimated that this whole thing is going to cost the state of Wisconsin about $230,700 per worker.
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Old 07-28-2017, 11:32 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnal_Flower View Post
Breaking News: Scott Walker Fucks Over his Constitutents for a Photo Op while Vowing to Turn Wisconsin into Bangladesh




NOTE THE FINE PRINT: Only 3,000 jobs created. Wisconsin paying through the nose for 3,000 jobs and a photo-op with the most hated President in US History. AWESOME
Isn't Socialism wonderful???

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Originally Posted by Hypoxia View Post
Three thousand jobs. Three billion bucks in incentives. This will cost the state (i.e. TAXPAYERS) one million dollars per job.

Sounds to me like socialism.

Last edited by BotanyBoy : 07-28-2017 at 11:34 AM.
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Old 07-29-2017, 04:58 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnal_Flower View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypoxia View Post
Three thousand jobs. Three billion bucks in incentives. This will cost the state (i.e. TAXPAYERS) one million dollars per job.
That argument is either disingenuous or ill-informed. As the quoted article makes clear, collateral development will create additional jobs well into the five figures ("up to 22,000 more"). Also, it is not as if the state is handing Foxxcom a check for $3 billion dollars. It is mostly in the form of tax incentives, as the article makes clear. Tax incentives on taxes Foxxcom would not be paying at all if it did not come to Wisconsin, so there is really no money lost because without those incentives, Foxxcom would not have come at all.

I see two other points worth making. First, as I pointed out above, Wisconsin's prior governor, Jim Doyle left Scott Walker with a >$3 billion deficit when Walker became governor. That was money that actually had to be paid. I did not hear any of the left condemning the way Doyle squandered over $3 billion back then.

Second, someone who's opinions are similar to mine on such things was on another thread accused of hating the poor for having such opinions. Although I do not live in Racine County, I live relatively near to it. Of the counties in Southeastern Wisconsin, Racine County has probably benefited the least from the booming economy in our state, with higher unemployment and poverty rates than its neighboring counties. Be it the 3,000 jobs you mistakenly claim, the 25,000 suggested by the article, or, as is likely, somewhere in between, a lot of those jobs will go to currently poor, unemployed people, many of them people of color. It seems the left begrudges them those jobs because they came in under Walker. They are jobs for the poor all the same.

Now, lets think about who really cares for the poor.
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Old 07-29-2017, 06:42 PM   #8
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Now, lets think about who really cares for the poor.
Well, it ain't you, honey.
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Old 07-30-2017, 12:29 AM   #9
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Wonkette noticed, too.

The Four Bullshit Lies Of Trump And Scott Walker’s Imaginary ‘Foxconn’ Factory

Foxconn runs sweatshops in China.

Foxconn has only spent about $9.5 billion on construction in the past five years, and it has already committed to spend an additional $17 billion for construction in India and China.


We are asked to believe that Foxconn will spend $10 billion for construction in Wisconsin. Even though, Foxconn has promised Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, and Indonesia.

3 billion in taxpayer-funded incentives given to Foxconn ?

https://wonkette.com/620800/the-four...oxconn-factory

http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...728-story.html

Foxconn has global reputation of setting up factories in low-wage locations in Asia and Mexico.

April 2, 2016

Foxconn, also known as Hon Hai Precision Industry Co., is buying a 66 percent share in Sharp for 389 billion yen ($3.5 billion) in the first foreign takeover of a major Japanese electronics company. A giant in contract manufacturing, Foxconn assembles Apple iPhones and other products for name-brand companies.

The two companies held a signing ceremony Saturday at a large-screen LCD panel factory that they have jointly managed outside the west Japanese city of Osaka since 2012.

Sharp, a leader in LCD technology and a maker of flat-screen televisions and smart appliances, has been hit hard by fierce price competition for LCD displays.


http://www.seattletimes.com/business...fter-takeover/

American workers should be wary," said Eli Friedman, associate professor of international and comparative labor at Cornell University, adding that Foxconn had a history of getting "headlines that rarely match the reality."
He pointed to an announcement in 2013 by Foxconn of plans to build a $30 million plant in Pennsylvania that have so far not come to fruition.


Christopher Balding, a professor of economics at Peking University, said the Wisconsin plan fits with Foxconn's strategy of pursuing automation to counter rising labor and transport costs related to manufacturing in China.


Even in the best case scenario, there's not that much to get excited about a Foxconn job in the U.S.," he said. "These are not going to be the kinds of good jobs Donald Trump has been promising.


http://money.cnn.com/2017/07/27/tech...ers/index.html


Poisoned employees, horrible working conditions, and poor pay at Foxconn in China


Suicides in 2010 at a factory owned by Foxconn Technology Group—a supplier for Apple, Hewlett-Packard, Sony, and other transnational companies—sparked investigations that found laborers were working long hours for insufficient pay and living in substandard housing.

https://www.wired.com/2015/04/inside...ories/#slide-1

Jan 13, 2017

Currently, Foxconn has plants in Virginia and Indiana, along with logistic locations in California and Texas. Apple has a comparably limited facility in Austin, Texas which manufactures the company's Mac Pro.
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Old 07-30-2017, 06:10 AM   #10
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Well, it ain't you, honey.
And we know it's not the Democrats. They've worked so hard to create them.
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Old 07-30-2017, 03:02 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by DawnODay View Post
That argument is either disingenuous or ill-informed. As the quoted article makes clear, collateral development will create additional jobs well into the five figures ("up to 22,000 more"). Also, it is not as if the state is handing Foxxcom a check for $3 billion dollars. It is mostly in the form of tax incentives, as the article makes clear. Tax incentives on taxes Foxxcom would not be paying at all if it did not come to Wisconsin, so there is really no money lost because without those incentives, Foxxcom would not have come at all.

I see two other points worth making. First, as I pointed out above, Wisconsin's prior governor, Jim Doyle left Scott Walker with a >$3 billion deficit when Walker became governor. That was money that actually had to be paid. I did not hear any of the left condemning the way Doyle squandered over $3 billion back then.

Second, someone who's opinions are similar to mine on such things was on another thread accused of hating the poor for having such opinions. Although I do not live in Racine County, I live relatively near to it. Of the counties in Southeastern Wisconsin, Racine County has probably benefited the least from the booming economy in our state, with higher unemployment and poverty rates than its neighboring counties. Be it the 3,000 jobs you mistakenly claim, the 25,000 suggested by the article, or, as is likely, somewhere in between, a lot of those jobs will go to currently poor, unemployed people, many of them people of color. It seems the left begrudges them those jobs because they came in under Walker. They are jobs for the poor all the same.

Now, lets think about who really cares for the poor.
There are a number of people who care for the poor. Among them are the teachers who teach the poor children to read and write and do math and otherwise learn what they need to know to be self-supporting and avoid crime. There are the business owners, frequently corporations, who make jobs available, thereby helping toward that desired self-sufficiency. It's coaches and guidance counselors who help the poor children to use whatever personal attributes they have to be the best they can be.

It's not the social workers, mostly Liberals, who persuade these same children their problems are not their fault, that it's not their fault they dropped out of school, got stoned on dope and remained illiterate, or got pregnant and decided to saddle themselves with children they were unable to support.
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Old 07-30-2017, 03:13 PM   #12
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If it will help we will donate Chicago to Wisconsin. Many rich Chicago businessmen already own most of Lake Geneva.
We'll throw in the exPresident free.

Why turn Janesville into another little Detroit?
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Old 07-30-2017, 04:50 PM   #13
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Someone reading this thread might be under the mistaken impression that Illinois has a Democratic governor.
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Old 07-30-2017, 05:12 PM   #14
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If it will help we will donate Chicago to Wisconsin. Many rich Chicago businessmen already own most of Lake Geneva.
We'll throw in the exPresident free.

Why turn Janesville into another little Detroit?
According to the original Northwest Ordinance, the boundary of the western states was to be a line from the southern tip of Lake Michigan to the Mississippi River. This would have meant the area where Chicago was later established would have been in Wisconsin.

I doubt that Paul Ryan would let his home town become another Detroit.
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Old 07-30-2017, 05:20 PM   #15
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Paul is busy right now trying to figure out why schools that before lotteries were legal could pay expenses and keep teachers when with the lotto money now going to the school districts they are broke.
Perhaps that money got lost in Chicago or Springfield in another old shoebox.
I believe another Paul was in town back then.
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Old 07-30-2017, 10:00 PM   #16
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I don't know about other districts. In Los Angeles, the lottery money doesn't go directly to the schools. It did the first two years, but after that the district kept it at central offices. It is now considered indirect funding and I have no idea where it goes.
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Old 07-30-2017, 10:31 PM   #17
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Someone reading this thread might be under the mistaken impression that Illinois has a Democratic governor.
You're right!

Illinois Gov. Bruce Rauner is a Republican. He's been trying to bring about Wisconsin-like reforms to Illinois, to save it from bankruptcy.* Unfortunately, the Democrat controlled Illinois legislature has blocked every single reform Gov. Rauner has tried to advance.

Thank you, Wrong Element, for mentioning Gov. Rauner is a Republican. I was surprised no leftist had brought this up sooner. Apparently you are the only one sufficiently unaware of what's going on in Illinois, or just dumb enough, not to realize the the Democrat obstruction of Rauner's attempts to introduce Wisconsin-like reforms in Illinois, and the resulting death spiral of its treasury, demonstrates perfectly by counterpoint how brilliant Walker and the Wisconsin Republicans were in saving Wisconsin from the same fate.

Thanks again!


-------

* Just like how Scott Walker inherited a >$3 billion dollar deficit from Democrat Jim Doyle and within single budget cycle balanced the budget, and even produced a surplus, all while lowering taxes (see above).
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Old 07-31-2017, 01:09 AM   #18
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You're right!

Illinois Gov. Bruce Rauner is a Republican. He's been trying to bring about Wisconsin-like reforms to Illinois, to save it from bankruptcy.* Unfortunately, the Democrat controlled Illinois legislature has blocked every single reform Gov. Rauner has tried to advance.

Thank you, Wrong Element, for mentioning Gov. Rauner is a Republican. I was surprised no leftist had brought this up sooner. Apparently you are the only one sufficiently unaware of what's going on in Illinois, or just dumb enough, not to realize the the Democrat obstruction of Rauner's attempts to introduce Wisconsin-like reforms in Illinois, and the resulting death spiral of its treasury, demonstrates perfectly by counterpoint how brilliant Walker and the Wisconsin Republicans were in saving Wisconsin from the same fate.

Thanks again!


-------

* Just like how Scott Walker inherited a >$3 billion dollar deficit from Democrat Jim Doyle and within single budget cycle balanced the budget, and even produced a surplus, all while lowering taxes (see above).
It's also worth mentioning that IL had Dem. governors for a long time, until the current one took office in Jan 2015. One of the Dems, the last I knew, was in prison for corruption.
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Old 07-31-2017, 01:10 AM   #19
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I don't know about other districts. In Los Angeles, the lottery money doesn't go directly to the schools. It did the first two years, but after that the district kept it at central offices. It is now considered indirect funding and I have no idea where it goes.
I suppose most of it goes into somebody's pocket. Unfortunately, that's politics.
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Old 07-31-2017, 10:18 AM   #20
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If it will help we will donate Chicago to Wisconsin. Many rich Chicago businessmen already own most of Lake Geneva.
We'll throw in the exPresident free.

Why turn Janesville into another little Detroit?
I saw the Chicago Tribune piece proposing splitting up Illinois and annexing the parts to its neighbors. I did not like that we got Chicago.

On the other hand, with Wisconsin's concealed carry law in place, crime might decline there, as it has here, and I do love the Art Institute!
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Old 07-31-2017, 01:48 PM   #21
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I saw the Chicago Tribune piece proposing splitting up Illinois and annexing the parts to its neighbors. I did not like that we got Chicago.

On the other hand, with Wisconsin's concealed carry law in place, crime might decline there, as it has here, and I do love the Art Institute!
Besides that, WI would get the World Series champion Cubs. They would also get stuck with the hated (in Wisconsin) Bears. Maybe they could be shipped off to Des Moines.

That's assuming South Chicago doesn't get ceded to Indiana.
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Old 07-31-2017, 02:38 PM   #22
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Besides that, WI would get the World Series champion Cubs. They would also get stuck with the hated (in Wisconsin) Bears. Maybe they could be shipped off to Des Moines.

That's assuming South Chicago doesn't get ceded to Indiana.
I'm content with the Brewers and Packers, thank you.
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Old 08-01-2017, 03:23 AM   #23
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I'm content with the Brewers and Packers, thank you.
Nobody wants the Bears, but everybody in WI loves the Packers. There are still Cub fans in WI, for several reasons, one of them being the Brewers are thought of as something of a JKL. There were a lot of Brave fans, but the state felt betrayed when the team left.
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Old 08-01-2017, 03:27 AM   #24
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Walker us a dousche...and this is the third thread on this topic. I made one and not sure who did the second but...

Edited to add, kudos for putting it in the political forum ( I sure didnt and neither did number two.)

and I guess this breaks my political forum cherry....
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Old 08-01-2017, 08:03 AM   #25
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Walker us a dousche...and this is the third thread on this topic. I made one and not sure who did the second but...

Edited to add, kudos for putting it in the political forum ( I sure didnt and neither did number two.)

and I guess this breaks my political forum cherry....
Thanks for the kudos!



You wrote: "Walker us a dousche." Care to elaborate. That's not very specific.
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