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I am male and enjoyed it 3 42.86%
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I am female and enjoyed it 2 28.57%
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Old 07-13-2017, 05:57 PM   #1
ClosetCFNM
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Feedback request - my first story - Coming of age / CFNM

I've been reading Literotica for several years now and finally decided to contribute. It's a CFNM story inspired by real life events. I've completed 5 out of an estimated 10 chapters, though only 3 have been published so far.

https://www.literotica.com/stories/m...ge=submissions

I'm curious about who likes my story and who doesn't (and why). It's not a typical CFNM story, but rather a much more milder version that I think is grounded in reality. It's also sort of a coming-of-age tale.

I've already received feedback that the chapters are too short, and I agree. I intended this to be daily short chapters, given the underlying intent of teasing the reader. Little did I know then that publication can take several days. Probably won't do this format again.

I'm interested in knowing:
- Did you find it realistic?
- Could you identify with the characters?
- If you enjoyed the story, were you already into CFNM?
- Any other feedback
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Old 07-13-2017, 06:49 PM   #2
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Read chapter One. One piece of advice I've seen and follow is "Start your story just before something interesting happens." Chapter One is almost all uninteresting back story. We get to the slightly interesting meeting of Nisha and the chapter ends. I'm sure the E&V readers were wondering "Where's the E/V?"

Personally, I found Vishal constantly worrying about his erection...can't think of the word. Weird + unappealing.

I found it odd/weird that he got an erection in his brief talk with Nisha given that he had just masturbated. I would have had him be awkward and embarrassed then retreat to his room.

You may want to consider taking down all your chapters and rebooting your story. Generally, your audience for any chapter after the first are the readers who enjoyed your first chapter. You have a low score for the first chapter. The lack of any E/V in the first chapter is going to make E&V readers uninterested in continuing. I'd suggest combining what you've published into one chapter and then publishing similar-length chapters from then on.
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Old 07-13-2017, 07:59 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by 8letters View Post
Read chapter One. One piece of advice I've seen and follow is ...
Great feedback. All of it. This is a CFNM story, so the constant worry/embarrassment/obsession is an underlying theme, but I'll see if I can rewrite that too.

I'll do as you've suggested and come back here for more feedback.
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Old 07-13-2017, 08:56 PM   #4
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Well...

I read the whole thing. I have some significant... concerns.
Let's start with your questions.
Quote:
- Did you find it realistic?
Hard no. The problem really comes in with the kink and the execution of it. Clothed Female Naked Male is a... situational kink. Literally. It's a very specific circumstance. In order for this story to work in an episodic format, you are manufacturing a series of situations in sequence that always end up with Vishal half naked.

This is sort of like watching Night Rider. The big action sequence always ends in a car chase because the talking car is your gimmick. Of course the enemy tries to get away in a car/truck/motorcycle; the show wouldn't work if they used a helicopter, or a boat, even if a helicopter or boat would make more sense.

I have nothing against the kink, and in isolated circumstances I think you would have more luck. That being said, given that your question is "is this realistic?", no. Not in a serialized, multi-chapter story.
Quote:
- Could you identify with the characters?
I think I got the jist of everything. Your story leans pretty hard on Indian culture and society. So while I didn't have a problem with the situations, or following the terms I was unfamiliar with, the specific question you are asking isn't going to give you a meaningful answer. At least, not from an American girl.
Quote:
- If you enjoyed the story, were you already into CFNM?
Moot, because...
Quote:
- Any other feedback
So i had to dig around to find out what "+2" means. Indian schools use a 10+2+3 system. 10 years of primary education, 2 years of secondary/pre-university, and then 3 years of University to get a bachelors. This puts our main character in 12th grade (or equivalent). Typically, on Lit, a character in12th grade is understood to be 18, and I think Vishal is as well...

...BUT...

...Vishal is not a consenting adult, and i can't tell if that's because he's really 14 being written as 18 to skirt the rules, or if he's 18 but that differences in the culture are creating a problem for me.

Vishal is plagued by uncontrollable erections. A non-familial woman in the house, brushing against him and touching him familiarly results in repeated, problematic bulges. This is, like, 70% of the tension. "Oh no! They will all see my penis!"

Vishal is unable to cook food or otherwise feed himself. He's comically reliant on his mother, and then on Nisha, to get food and water into his system. He sits at the table and has his meals brought to him, and then an adult sits with him to make sure he's getting enough.

Vishal has no control over his schedule. His mother decides when/where he's allowed to go, when he gets up.

Vishal needs an adult to buy his clothes for him. He does not know his own measurements, or what articles of clothes he needs.

Vishal can't share his thoughts. He feels inferior around his elders (anyone older than him), and that he is unable to voice his opinion, even about basic things that should be his choice.

All of these things could be individually explained. He's shy, he's spoiled, he's respectful, puberty is hitting him late. Etc. Fine. But when you combine all of these things, what you end up with is a character who can't make any kind of decision, on any level, for himself. Now, I'm not in a position to say what consititutes consenting age in India, or whether the traits exhibited by Vishal are normal behavior for a consenting adult in India, but this reads like Vishal is a child.

A woman I knew gave me a book to review called Jailbait. It was about a 29 year old woman who looled like she could be 20, acted like she was 40, and dated a 50 year old man. We had a long discussion about the nature of her book, and what that boiled down to was that her title was egregious. The allure/problem with underaged characters is not a function of their appearance or physical development, but in their inability to make choices and understand consequences. A 14 year old would be astounded by pregnancy, or an STD, "because we only had sex just the one time!"

If you have two underage people having sex, that creates a legal scenario where, yes, it's unfortunate but neither party is taking advantage of the other one. Nisha, however, is written as a consenting adult. She can dress herself, go anywhere she wants, cook, and MAKE CHOICES. Vishal cannot, or at the very least, does not.

That's statutory rape.

Now, I'm not going to report this story because, like i said, there could be cultural things going on here that I'm ignorant of. That being said, you should think long and hard about taking this down.

Edit: Lots of people watch(ed) Night Rider, and lots of people are(were) fans, but none of them called it 'realistic'.
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Old 07-13-2017, 09:33 PM   #5
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I think people infer stuff due to their own worldview/background a lot. In OP's biography he says that a lot of things in his stories may seem improbable to modern Western people but are par for the course in India. In West we don't have our marriages arranged by family but they still do there for example. Also the child (no matter whether 18) is expected to do as told by their elder relatives and they don't have much autonomy in a lot of cases if they want to remain in good standing.

Also I know, even with Indian people living in US, they are a lot more into 'traditional' roles for the sexes, like for example Indian men never preparing their own food. If a male wants food at three in the morning he will wake the woman and she will get up and make it.

Now if on top of culture Vishal is shy, insecure, and passive by nature some of these things can be explained without suggesting he is underage. I know when I was fourteen no one told me how to dress (but I am just a modern guy with a lust for life).
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Old 07-13-2017, 09:40 PM   #6
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Cultural differences do not create a scenario where a character who cannot consent because of age/maturity is acceptable. If I wrote a sci fi story where a character was '18', but that their planet made a solar revolution once every 200 days, what you end up with is a character who would be like a 10 year old. That's not kosher.
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Old 07-13-2017, 09:45 PM   #7
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Also the child (no matter whether 18) is expected to do as told by their elder relatives and they don't have much autonomy in a lot of cases if they want to remain in good standing.
I don't know if this is a typo or not, but you are tacitly agreeing that a character is a child when the expectation is that they listen to their elders. You're making my point for me.
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Old 07-13-2017, 11:38 PM   #8
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Well...
I read the whole thing. I have some significant... concerns.
I found the first part of your feedback useful. But it IS an erotic, fetish-themed story, with no other pretensions, so my threshold of 'realism' is certainly far lower than the bar you've presented. But it's useful feedback when one is not writing a fetish story, or when one is writing a sci-fi / adventure / drama /romance story with graphic adult elements. I do intend to write a lot more, so I will keep it in mind.

Regarding the child/consent angle, it's absolutely a cultural thing.

First let's talk about your definition of a child.

If your definition of a child is someone who is dependent on people older than him/her for a lot of decision making and feels compelled to comply, then that definition is inherently problematic in the Indian context. Even my parents, retired as they are, still feel compelled to comply with the instructions of their uncles and aunts, regardless of whether they agree with them or not. Even today, if my mom says, "Son, come here and get your head shaved", then I, a full grown, well-settled, long-ago financially independent adult, will absolutely feel compelled to do it, however much I hate it. Well, she actually did this a year ago, which is why it's fresh in my mind. My sister wanted only one child. My parents told her she must have another. She didn't agree, and she whined about it, but she did it anyway. So yes, most Indians would qualify as children by that definition. There are always people older than them who they feel compelled to listen to.

Now if we are instead going to define a legal-age-but-child as someone who, despite being of legal age, is perhaps developmentally challenged from the norm in some way, then Vishal in this story is certainly not a child. Vishal is more likely, than not, to be the norm for most high school seniors and even many college students in India. Many of my college friends were just as painfully shy and devoid of non-familial female contact as he is. My parents chose and bought me most of my clothes until I finished college. I was actually better off than many of my friends in the sense that I was able to protest choices that I didn't like, though sometimes it didn't make a difference. Many of my friends were just sent their clothes during the festival season. My parents picked my college and specialization for me, and they paid for it. They weren't really an exception in this regard among middle-class families either. Even today, when my mom visits me, she will absolutely not let me serve myself food. That isn't "more helpless than the norm". That's just the way it is. So no, Vishal doesn't deviate much from the norm.

Now let's address consent.

Nisha is from a village. In her village, and in fact in most villages, male nudity is very commonplace and isn't given a second look. If you go far enough back in Western culture, things were much the same. My point is, in the scenes where Nisha seems to be stripping Vishal, she isn't doing it for any sort of sexual gratification - she's sincerely doing it for him, and because that's the norm she is used to. When that changes in the future, she does look for explicit consent. But so far, she hasn't shown any signs of arousal from undressing Vishal, or seeing him undressed. That being as it is, the question of consent doesn't even arise.

The sexual tension in the story so far is entirely in Vishal's head - the story is written from his perspective. Further, most of this sexual tension only exists here because, this being a CFNM* story, Vishal is imagined as someone who is specifically aroused when he is underdressed in the company of the opposite sex. This is NOT the norm. Nisha, or anyone else in Vishal's universe, is not expected to know that they are causing him such sexual arousal. Some embarrassment, perhaps, but not arousal. I've had countless situations, as a male with a CFNM fetish, where I was very aroused but none of my friends were.

I understand how this can all seem 'off' from a Western perspective, and I found your comments insightful.

*PS: CFNM is a FemDom fetish, and while I think this is a fairly tame/mild story in such a universe, I'm just trying to provide some cultural context here.

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Old 07-14-2017, 04:26 AM   #9
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Personally, I found Vishal constantly worrying about his erection...can't think of the word. Weird + unappealing.

I found it odd/weird that he got an erection in his brief talk with Nisha given that he had just masturbated. I would have had him be awkward and embarrassed then retreat to his room.
Yeah, but isn't that the whole point of the fetish, the embarrassment thing?

The cultural issue is obviously key, too. This is hardly being written from an Anglo-American (and I'll throw Australia and Canada into that definition) perspective, it sounds to me very attuned to Indian sexuality (where Bollywood movies are considered risque).

A million miles away from my ken, that's for sure. I lived in a co-ed college for three years when I was at uni in the late seventies. The male and female bathrooms were right next to be each other, so every morning a typical encounter was the girl across the corridor running to the showers with a tiny towel wrapped around her body, while the guys wrapped the towels around their waists. Any morning wood, hell, just wrap the towel tight

Tall girls were at a disadvantage (the towels really were small). Interestingly, they would always wrap their boobs,so very often you'd get a nice flash of pussy lips as Janey ran by
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Old 07-14-2017, 11:04 AM   #10
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> Personally, I found Vishal constantly worrying about his erection...can't think of the word. Weird + unappealing.

> I found it odd/weird that he got an erection in his brief talk with Nisha given that he had just masturbated. I would have
> had him be awkward and embarrassed then retreat to his room.

Yeah, but isn't that the whole point of the fetish, the embarrassment thing?
It's tough to give feedback for a story in a category that I don't read for a kink that doesn't appeal to me set in a culture different then my own. Given all that, I think the story would work best if it focused on two parallel themes - Vishal's attraction to Nisha and Vishal's embarrassment/humiliation from his mother, sister and Nisha. Because of the first, he gets erections which contributes to the second. Making the main theme of the story that Vishal constantly gets erections to me doesn't make for an appealing story.
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Old 07-14-2017, 11:12 AM   #11
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but uncontrollable, unprovoked erections are a puberty thing. This is the part of the story that tilted me from "I just don't understand the culture" to "this is probably wrong."
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Old 07-14-2017, 11:42 AM   #12
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but uncontrollable, unprovoked erections are a puberty thing. This is the part of the story that tilted me from "I just don't understand the culture" to "this is probably wrong."
They are not 'unprovoked'. The protagonist is undergoing new experiences and is therefore hyper-sensitive to them. The novelty will wear off soon enough.

I understand that you're not comfortable with the story, and I'm OK with that. But I've already explained the context as best as I could; can we please give this 'effectively a child' line of thought a rest now?
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Old 07-14-2017, 11:52 AM   #13
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It's tough to give feedback for a story in a category that I don't read for a kink that doesn't appeal to me set in a culture different then my own. Given all that, I think the story would work best if it focused on two parallel themes - Vishal's attraction to Nisha and Vishal's embarrassment/humiliation from his mother, sister and Nisha. Because of the first, he gets erections which contributes to the second. Making the main theme of the story that Vishal constantly gets erections to me doesn't make for an appealing story.
True. Just one correction. Only a small part of his arousal is due to the attraction to Nisha. Most of it is caused by his feelings of exposure, however tame the exposure itself is.

I guess it's just as hard for someone with a kink to see that people without that kink would find certain things really weird, even in a tangentially related category like E/V. Ideally every kind of fetish would have its own category, but that's not practical either.
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Old 07-14-2017, 12:19 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by ClosetCFNM View Post
I understand that you're not comfortable with the story, and I'm OK with that. But I've already explained the context as best as I could; can we please give this 'effectively a child' line of thought a rest now?
I stand by my feedback. "Consider rethinking your character."

That being said, and try to understand that I'm saying this without judgement, culturally-accepted statutory rape is a sticky situation. If Nisha said "come over here and pleasure me orally." and Vishal didn't want to BUT DID SO BECAUSE HE FELT COMPELLED OR FELT LIKE HE HAD NO CHOICE, that's rape.

I've written non-consent stories. I don't mind or take issue with that as an intentional plot mechanic, but you're backing into that territory without realizing it. As Lit is a server based in the US, it is subject to American interpretations of what is and is not statutory rape, and that's something you should be conscious of. Lit will remove any story that has even the scent of underage wrongdoing, and I would hate to see someone's hard work removed because of fuzzy interpretations and unintended suggestions.

I've said my peace, and I'll let it go.
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Old 07-14-2017, 12:32 PM   #15
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True. Just one correction. Only a small part of his arousal is due to the attraction to Nisha. Most of it is caused by his feelings of exposure, however tame the exposure itself is.

I guess it's just as hard for someone with a kink to see that people without that kink would find certain things really weird, even in a tangentially related category like E/V. Ideally every kind of fetish would have its own category, but that's not practical either.
Vishal is the narrator. Tell us what's going on in his head. It seems like you have a story in your head that you aren't putting down on paper. If you're going to tell a CFNM story, tell us details that explain and set up the kink.

In the shower scene, Vishal could be getting excited about a young girl coming to stay with them. How he hasn't had much contact with girls. How he hopes she's pretty. How he's afraid he'll embarrass himself. Instead, he thinks about porn, gets an erection and jerks off. There's nothing E&V or CFNM about a guy jerking off in the shower.

Here's the scene where Vishal meets Nisha. Before this, Nisha says "Hi!" and there's four lines of dialogue back and forth.
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He didn't respond. She was smiling at him as he stood there half naked, his towel plastered to him. She was so pretty, and she was looking at his bare chest unabashedly. He felt a stirring in his penis and began to panic. He brought his hands forward and clasped them in front of his crotch.
Why does Vishal think she's pretty? There's no description of Nisha. He gets an erection. Given the chain of events, presumably because Nisha is looking at his chest. There's nothing about his feelings of exposure. There's nothing E&V or CFNM about a guy getting an erection because a pretty girl looks at his chest.

Edit: "bare chest" has two meaning in the above. The first, which is what I think you were meaning, is a chest with no clothing over it. It also has the meaning of a chest with no chest hair, which implies a young boy. Given Vishal's lack of control over his erections, one gets the feeling is much younger than 18.
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Old 07-14-2017, 12:44 PM   #16
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If Nisha said "come over here and pleasure me orally." and Vishal didn't want to BUT DID SO BECAUSE HE FELT COMPELLED OR FELT LIKE HE HAD NO CHOICE, that's rape.
Well firstly, she doesn't. Her character does not have any sexual intent until this point. For anyone without a view inside Vishal's head, none of the proceedings so far would be perceived as 'sexual' in nature.

Secondly, Vishal does not feel compelled to do anything due to any sense of physical harm if he failed to do so. He complies because he is shy in the presence of a female who isn't family, and also because he doesn't want to appear shy. By his own mother's admission, he isn't exactly compliant most of the time. "I was too shy to say no" isn't a valid no-choice situation.

This isn't statutory rape regardless of culture. I think you're being too liberal with that word.
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Old 07-14-2017, 01:34 PM   #17
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Vishal is the narrator. Tell us what's going on in his head. It seems like you have a story in your head that you aren't putting down on paper. If you're going to tell a CFNM story, tell us details that explain and set up the kink.

In the shower scene, Vishal could be getting excited about a young girl coming to stay with them. How he hasn't had much contact with girls. How he hopes she's pretty. How he's afraid he'll embarrass himself. Instead, he thinks about porn, gets an erection and jerks off. There's nothing E&V or CFNM about a guy jerking off in the shower.

Here's the scene where Vishal meets Nisha. Before this, Nisha says "Hi!" and there's four lines of dialogue back and forth.

Why does Vishal think she's pretty? There's no description of Nisha. He gets an erection. Given the chain of events, presumably because Nisha is looking at his chest. There's nothing about his feelings of exposure. There's nothing E&V or CFNM about a guy getting an erection because a pretty girl looks at his chest.

Edit: "bare chest" has two meaning in the above. The first, which is what I think you were meaning, is a chest with no clothing over it. It also has the meaning of a chest with no chest hair, which implies a young boy. Given Vishal's lack of control over his erections, one gets the feeling is much younger than 18.
I think my writing style is generally at odds with your expectations. That's probably just a style preference. I like stories that don't explicitly spell out things that can be reasonably inferred by a reader.

Ex,
- When he's told 'guest', he immediately thinks about the impending inconvenience to his life, because that's the emotional response foremost in his head based on his past experiences; past experiences that feature limited interaction with girls.
- The jerk-off sequence establishes that his own disrobing arouses him, even in private. It also establishes that the fantasy that he jerks off to is one of impending self-exposure. He's not jerking off to a conventional sexual act, but rather to a repeated image of a girl pulling off his towel. These are all strong clues to his CFNM fetish, a fetish he doesn't yet realize he has.
- When Nisha looks at him, he only observes that she is pretty, but is too self-conscious to register much else. He is more concerned about the fact that she can see his bare chest (thus the repeated references to towel and bare chest), than the fact that she is pretty. But in the very next chapter, there are multiple scenes where he describes how she looks and what she is wearing. I think this comes back to the feedback that the first chapter seems incomplete on its own, and that the first 3 chapters need to be combined. I agree with that and will do so.

I'm not trying to be defensive; just explaining my thought process. I welcome the feedback.
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Old 07-14-2017, 03:11 PM   #18
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I think my writing style is generally at odds with your expectations. That's probably just a style preference. I like stories that don't explicitly spell out things that can be reasonably inferred by a reader.
:
I've fought this fight enough that this is funny to me. You forgot to say,"I trust my readers."

Write what you want. If you like how your story is currently written, good for you. I encourage you to keep writing.
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Old 07-15-2017, 08:17 PM   #19
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I don't know if this is a typo or not, but you are tacitly agreeing that a character is a child when the expectation is that they listen to their elders. You're making my point for me.
Not clear enough perhaps. Certainly not making your dubious point. Amend my comment to 18 or older. Plenty of parents (mostly moms) will refer to their thirty year old offspring as my child or my baby though of course it isn't a child by any definition except it's their child.

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Cultural differences do not create a scenario where a character who cannot consent because of age/maturity is acceptable. If I wrote a sci fi story where a character was '18', but that their planet made a solar revolution once every 200 days, what you end up with is a character who would be like a 10 year old. That's not kosher.
Age is age, maturity varies by person. An immature thirty year old is immature but in no way would it be illegal unless society decides to implement an AwkwardMD law that specifies an individual must pass a maturity test to have sex, drive, sign contracts, etc.
You're right about the sci fi scenario if the race was human or equivalent but if it was a race that reached a maximum age of thirty and matured at ten that would be different. Or in a fantasy setting an elf at twenty could still be a minor, even a child, and that wouldn't be kosher to then have them engage in sex. You could also look at my snowman story where the snowman was only days old, but he was a snowman not a snowboy, and you found no problems there.
You also basically ignored what the OP said about the culture of India and the examples he gave so I'm not holding my breath you'll reconsider your opinion.
I wouldn't like that culture in a lot of ways because it infantilizes people it seems to me and I would be constantly pushing the boundaries but that doesn't mean that the story isn't reflecting way the majority over there does things.

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Originally Posted by AwkwardMD View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but uncontrollable, unprovoked erections are a puberty thing. This is the part of the story that tilted me from "I just don't understand the culture" to "this is probably wrong."
From what you say you are a woman, so I understand you not having a penis makes it hard to get this part but spontaneous erections for no reason go on well beyond puberty (and 18 isn't much past puberty and can still be considered adolescence which if I understand right is more the psychological - emotional development while puberty is physical). At 18 getting 10 - 20 erections a day would be quite normal. And as OP stated they aren't unprovoked, being in close proximity to a woman you feel attracted to could be enough. Add to that his shame/embarrassment from his arousal and it could become almost a self fulfilling cycle.

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Originally Posted by AwkwardMD View Post
I stand by my feedback. "Consider rethinking your character."

That being said, and try to understand that I'm saying this without judgement, culturally-accepted statutory rape is a sticky situation. If Nisha said "come over here and pleasure me orally." and Vishal didn't want to BUT DID SO BECAUSE HE FELT COMPELLED OR FELT LIKE HE HAD NO CHOICE, that's rape.

I've written non-consent stories. I don't mind or take issue with that as an intentional plot mechanic, but you're backing into that territory without realizing it. As Lit is a server based in the US, it is subject to American interpretations of what is and is not statutory rape, and that's something you should be conscious of. Lit will remove any story that has even the scent of underage wrongdoing, and I would hate to see someone's hard work removed because of fuzzy interpretations and unintended suggestions.

I've said my peace, and I'll let it go.
As OP said he wasn't compelled but if someone does something (whether sexual or otherwise) where no threat of violence used, no force used, person not incapacitated then it isn't non-consensual. If someone does something to keep the peace or in this example he was too shy to say no then it would be a very strange world it gets twisted to be rape. Sorry. And if you really think iyo it violates Lit's standards then drop a dime but I think it's your interpretation that is fuzzy here. And as we also know in US, since you brought it up, that in over 2/3 of the states the age of consent is under 18. Lit doesn't allow stories with sexually aware characters under 18 but that is policy by choice, has nothing to do with US statutory rape laws.
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Old 07-15-2017, 11:43 PM   #20
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I said this in my intial review; any of the many factors I pointed out could easily be explained. The problem was with so many of them being present. If it walks like a duck, AND quacks like a duck, AND swims like a duck, AND shits like a duck, AND eats like a duck, AND procreates like a duck, at what point do you start thinking "You know what? This might be a duck..."

Quote:
As OP said he wasn't compelled but if someone does something (whether sexual or otherwise) where no threat of violence used, no force used, person not incapacitated then it isn't non-consensual. If someone does something to keep the peace or in this example he was too shy to say no then it would be a very strange world it gets twisted to be rape. Sorry. And if you really think iyo it violates Lit's standards then drop a dime but I think it's your interpretation that is fuzzy here. And as we also know in US, since you brought it up, that in over 2/3 of the states the age of consent is under 18. Lit doesn't allow stories with sexually aware characters under 18 but that is policy by choice, has nothing to do with US statutory rape laws.
First of all, the following is from Wikipedia.

Quote:
Statutory rape is sexual activity in which one of the individuals is below the age required to legally consent to the behavior in some common law jurisdictions.[1] Although it usually refers to adults engaging in sex with minors under the age of consent,[1] it is a generic term, and very few jurisdictions use the actual term statutory rape in the language of statutes.[2]

...

In statutory rape, overt force or threat is usually not present. Statutory rape laws presume coercion, because a minor or mentally handicapped adult is legally incapable of giving consent to the act.
I know that one or two times in earlier posts, I may have just used the word 'rape', but for the purposes of this conversation, what I'm always talking about is 'statutory rape'. What you're describing, about keeping the peace and being too shy, is statutory rape assuming the character is not capable of consent, and that's the tricky part.

I think it's funny that, in several responses now, you have not once indicated that you've read the story. You're just blindly arguing with me about it because reasons. None of the other reviewers who have read it have weighed in on this, and I'd be shocked if it was because they disagreed with me. That's just not the norm. Reviewers often stick up for the reviewee when they feel unjust criticism is levied. It seems to me that no one is touching this because they don't know how they feel.

And honestly, I don't either. I didn't report it. I'm not going to report it, but I do feel a responsibility to convey that this story wades into deep waters. Deeper waters than I think the author was aware of when writing this, and I've tried to be gentle in my arguments. If there's a cultural disconnect in me trying to interpret it, I think it's safe to say there's also a cultural disconnect where the author wrote something a foreign audience could take issue with.

I don't know what point you think you're making when you bring up that Lit abides by a very safe policy when it comes to 18/underage characters. Literally no one is going to prosecute the author. There are no legal risks here. The only risk is in having his story taken down, and that's what I've been trying to make the author aware of from the start.

I think the word I've been struggling to find for this is infantilize.

1.to keep in or reduce to an infantile state.
2.to treat or regard as infantile or immature.

To me, the argument is "At what point does infantilization cross over into a state of diminished mental capacity?"
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Old 07-16-2017, 01:03 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by rutger5 View Post
You could also look at my snowman story where the snowman was only days old, but he was a snowman not a snowboy, and you found no problems there.
This is "Quacks like a duck." You would have had to check off a lot more boxes before Hoary became a problem.

Read the story. Form your own opinion instead of just knee-jerking to the opposite position because "because".
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Old 07-16-2017, 03:21 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by AwkwardMD View Post
If there's a cultural disconnect in me trying to interpret it, I think it's safe to say there's also a cultural disconnect where the author wrote something a foreign audience could take issue with.
I understood the point you were trying to make in your very first response, which is why I explained in detail that the characters I've portrayed here do not deviate from the norm (for their age) for the cultural setting that they are shown in. Vishal is not an excessively modified 18yo character in an Indian cultural setting, though if you were to transpose him into a western cultural setting, he would probably appear maladjusted (and vice versa for a character in a typical story set in America).

However you bring up an interesting point here. Is Literotica a platform specifically dedicated to Western erotica? If every piece of fiction set in every part of the world were scrutinized to see if readers from other parts of the world might take issue with it, very few would pass that test. I agree that certain ground rules should be followed, but "must appear to be a well-adjusted adult in a typical Western society" seems like an awfully arbitrary bar that disadvantages any writer who did not grow up in a Western society.
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Old 07-16-2017, 04:04 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by ClosetCFNM View Post
However you bring up an interesting point here. Is Literotica a platform specifically dedicated to Western erotica? If every piece of fiction set in every part of the world were scrutinized to see if readers from other parts of the world might take issue with it, very few would pass that test. I agree that certain ground rules should be followed, but "must appear to be a well-adjusted adult in a typical Western society" seems like an awfully arbitrary bar that disadvantages any writer who did not grow up in a Western society.
Yes. This. This is what I've been saying. Remember; Literotica is a for-profit website, not a charity dedicated to universal equality. It does its best to be an open platform for anyone and everyone to share their erotic fantasies, but the site owners and moderators will draw lines. It only takes a certain amount of complaints (if they don't catch something themselves), and they're going to come down on whatever side protects them. Without hesitation or question.

It doesn't need to be a duck, it only resemble one closely enough.

The likelihood that someone is going to report your story is 'low', but it's also not 'none'. Lit will not stick up for you. It hasn't stuck up for me either. I've had some of my stories re-categorized against my wishes, and I think I was on the edge of having one removed. That would have made me absolutely irate.
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Old 07-16-2017, 04:15 AM   #24
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There's always going to be a disconnect between what you envision, as you're writing, and what the reader sees when they read it. You can spend months agonizing over word choices, and descriptive adjectives, and people will still miss important clues and, often, see what they want. You can't control it, and you can't avoid it. The best you can do is steer readers away from the really taboo ones.
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Old 07-22-2017, 01:56 AM   #25
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I won't like it much if it keeps on being more milder!
I don't buy it. I was 50 and still taking my mother's suggestions to heart before making a final decision, often asking her opinion before acting. Dad was a hopeless drunk, but I still sought to please him until he died. Doing what your parents ask is the definition of being someone's son, just about regardless of culture. That said, a fourteen year old is 14, no matter what number you attach.
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