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Old 10-07-2017, 03:13 PM   #51
EquinoxRising
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Originally Posted by needit700 View Post
know a really good incest video? Mom and son or dad and daughter.
Can't find your own Internet porn?
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Old 10-07-2017, 03:16 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by EquinoxRising View Post
Can't find your own Internet porn?
The topic of the thread is incest stories, meaning good bet the people posting like the genre and would have some good recommendations.

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Old 10-07-2017, 04:16 PM   #53
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Old 10-07-2017, 04:38 PM   #54
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Old 10-07-2017, 07:05 PM   #55
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Sorry, only just noticed there was a response to me here.

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Originally Posted by 8letters View Post
Here is another one for you.
At the risk of No True Scotsman-ing this discussion, I think we might be using different definitions of "incest" here.

Incest laws vary widely from one jurisdiction to another, but in Australia and in most US states sex between first cousins is legal. Overall, the most common legal standard for incest seems to be something along the lines of: direct ancestors/descendants, siblings, and aunts/uncles, with cousins not considered incest. Certainly Scacchi's relationship wouldn't be incest under Australian law.

That's not to say that legal definitions are the only ones that count, but I do think calling cousin-cousin "incest" is contestable. I'll admit I wasn't really thinking of that case since most of the Lit I/T content seems to be about closer relationships.

Quote:
In My European Summer Vacation, the FMC doesn't find out until they are related until they've been together for months and she's already thinking of marriage. The MMC found out a few days after they started sleeping together. It has a 4.84 rating and was in the I/T Hall of Fame for a while.
Fair :-)

Quote:
Cousins used to marry all the time. It wasn't until the 60's that it stopped being a common occurrence in most of the developed world. In many countries, intra-family marriages are still very common. You're from Australia, right?
Depends what you count as "from", but I do live in Australia.

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Australia has a very low rate of intra-family marriage but still is estimated to have 50,000 family members married to each other (link). How does that compare with the number of incest child abuse cases in Australia?
Note that the data you're citing includes marriages between second cousins. You know I/T better than me; how popular are second-cousin relationships in that category?

Per the AIC link, about 25% of Australians have experienced childhood sexual abuse with 90% of abuse cases from non-strangers. It doesn't seem to give a breakdown for those non-strangers between abuse by family members and by non-related non-strangers, but even if we assume 90% are non-related (probably way too high) that still leaves about 2% of Australians who've been abused by a family member. Which would make childhood abuse about fifty times as common as those consanguineous-including-second-cousin marriages.

Quote:
Depends what you are using as a reference. If you're using Greta Scacchi as a realistic incest experience, then many of the I/T stories on LitE are plausible. If you're using the dad/uncle who molests his fourteen-year-old daughter/niece as a reference, not so much.
Cases like Scacchi's do exist in real life, but as far as I can tell they are vastly outnumbered by molesting dads and uncles, so I weight the latter a lot more heavily.
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Old 10-08-2017, 03:00 PM   #56
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Why am I coming back to this nonsense.

No one asks to be killed by a drunk driver and no one asks to be abused.

Now, I said, but drivers drive home drunk and the majority don't get into accidents (implying, so why not let them off the hook when they are caught drinking and driving when they haven't harmed anyone - this would mean they were only pulled over) just as it was suggested to let mutual incest partakers off the hook when they are hurting no one. You see? Neither have harmed anyone. (I'm not going to hold your hand through the entire comparison).

This is for you Hisarpy: Your tunnel vision makes you see an argument/debate/discussion one way and you jump on that one thing and harp on it, it doesn't matter what was actually said. It hard to talk to a person like you and I don't come on here to be frustrated. You want to prove a point so you can only see what you want to see, like my comparison. Everything I wrote is there for anyone to see, so they can decide if what I said came across as what I meant.

(I can only refer back to your post about the review you didn't get: everyone told you one thing and you didn't want to see it.) I don't know you. I don't want to argue with you continuously forever and forever on this thread. When I'm done with it, I really want to be done with it. It no longer interest me, but like you, I have a problem walking away, so I have to tell me myself: That's it. No more.

Now, I'm really going to make my best effort to leave this topic - not this thread - but our particular conversation.

8letters, you're right, I wasn't infusing my opinion on the the subject or the questions I was asking you.
You're not listening, instead you're making excuses. But that's ok, we've all done it so we can recognize it when we see/read it.

I didn't make this about you either, instead I was talking about what you posted. You know, the topic of the debate, rather than the personality conflict problems you keep bringing up.

I don't care if you don't like my tone. I don't care if you don't like my position, argument, or discussion tactics either. What I care about is having a conversation where one viewpoint can differ from the other AND point out the flaws in their argument. It can get heated and lots of things can be said that can be taken out of context or twisted to suit personal ideologies, but in the end, we should be able to shake hands and tell each other; 'Good debate, see you in the next thread' and then walk away, no harm, no foul, no hurt feelings, and no carry-over.

It's too bad you can't see that.
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Old 10-08-2017, 03:32 PM   #57
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I'm amazed at how crazy people are getting over fictional stories on a porn site that cater to a certain kink.

The comparisons to real life and the stories here are useless. This is fantasy albeit one that's on the extreme side, but its still make believe. People don't get this upset about stories about serial killers slaughtering and torturing people or a myriad of other nastiness written about across the genres, but make believe 18 and over consensual incest? Oh no.

I think I sense a lot of what I see in comments on the taboo and non con and loving wives stories...a lot of protesting way too loudly.
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Old 10-08-2017, 05:05 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calista85 View Post
The comparisons to real life and the stories here are useless. This is fantasy albeit one that's on the extreme side, but its still make believe. People don't get this upset about stories about serial killers slaughtering and torturing people or a myriad of other nastiness written about across the genres, but make believe 18 and over consensual incest? Oh no.
Yanno, I pretty much agree with you. But this thread started with somebody complaining that incest stories weren't "realistic" enough.
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Old 10-08-2017, 05:32 PM   #59
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Old 10-08-2017, 06:47 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Bramblethorn View Post
Yanno, I pretty much agree with you. But this thread started with somebody complaining that incest stories weren't "realistic" enough.
LOL, good point.

But I think what they meant was to try and have some substance to the story and not be as simple as family members just hopping into bed because, hey sis is pretty hot and no one is home.

I think they were looking for some build up and some type of justification for people to commit a serious line crossing taboo.

Don't think they meant make it real as in the usual unfortunate circumstances most incest is.

But the passion of the ensuing arguments is a testament to what a hotbed topic is it and I still have the feeling some of the protesters are doing so a little to loudly.
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Old 10-09-2017, 02:50 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Bramblethorn View Post
At the risk of No True Scotsman-ing this discussion, I think we might be using different definitions of "incest" here.

Incest laws vary widely from one jurisdiction to another, but in Australia and in most US states sex between first cousins is legal. Overall, the most common legal standard for incest seems to be something along the lines of: direct ancestors/descendants, siblings, and aunts/uncles, with cousins not considered incest. Certainly Scacchi's relationship wouldn't be incest under Australian law.
You seem to be using using "incest is illegal family relationships" whereas I'm using "incest is family relationships". If you read the article about Scacchi, she received a tremendous amount of criticism for her legal relationship with her cousin. Why do you think she was criticized? Looks to me that many in Australian society judged her relationship as immoral because of incest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bramblethorn View Post
That's not to say that legal definitions are the only ones that count, but I do think calling cousin-cousin "incest" is contestable. I'll admit I wasn't really thinking of that case since most of the Lit I/T content seems to be about closer relationships.
I wouldn't make any sweeping conclusions about a Lit category I don't read and I'm suggesting you do the same. Cousin-cousin incest does just fine in Lit I/T. If I scan the Lit I/T top stories list for complete stories, #10 and #11 are cousin-cousin stories. #2 is about second cousins. What is important is not the closeness of the relationship but that it is considered taboo by people close to the main characters.

In Jane Austen's "Emma", Emma marries her brother-in-law George Knightley. There are lots of sister-in-law stories in Lit I/T but Emma's marriage is not considered incest because...the family doesn't consider it incest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bramblethorn View Post
Cases like Scacchi's do exist in real life, but as far as I can tell they are vastly outnumbered by molesting dads and uncles, so I weight the latter a lot more heavily.
The fact that is rare makes it more interesting to read about. Look, how often does a woman from modest means meet a wealthy man who had been brought up rich and the man quickly fall in love with her? Like "Pride and Prejudice"? Like "Pretty Woman"? Like "50 Shades of Grey"?
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Old 10-09-2017, 05:58 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by 8letters View Post
You seem to be using using "incest is illegal family relationships" whereas I'm using "incest is family relationships".
I specifically said in the post you're quoting: "That's not to say that legal definitions are the only ones that count". Legal definitions of incest vary even within countries, and some places don't have an offence of incest per se, so I'm not going to invoke a strict legal standard.

But go back far enough and we're all family, so "family relationships" isn't a helpful definition either unless we want to water down the definition so far that literally every human relationship is "incest". Legal standards do at least provide some tangible, easily-checked examples of what people get het up about.

Quote:
If you read the article about Scacchi, she received a tremendous amount of criticism for her legal relationship with her cousin. Why do you think she was criticized? Looks to me that many in Australian society judged her relationship as immoral because of incest.
Well, no, not really.

I was part of Australian society then as now, I read the news daily, I'm aware of Scacchi and I've seen several of her films. You posting the link is the first I've ever heard that she was in a relationship with her cousin. I'm sure the celebrity gossip columns and paparazzi would've run the story - they will run literally anything - and I don't doubt there was some family friction, but it really didn't make that much of a splash.

Don't take my word for it. Here's her Wikipedia article. At the time of my checking the entirety of the "personal life" section is:

Quote:
Scacchi was in a relationship with New Zealand musician Tim Finn from 198389. She had a four-year relationship with American actor Vincent D'Onofrio, with whom she has a daughter, born in 1992.[20][21]

Scacchi is an Italian citizen by birth. She applied for British citizenship after turning 18 but was refused and refused again on appeal.[22] In January 1995, she became an Australian citizen.

Scacchi is an active supporter of campaigns and organisations that promote environmental causes. She has supported Greenpeace and Christian Aid's climate change campaign.[23] In 2009, she posed nude with a codfish to promote the documentary End of the Line, a film exposing the effects of overfishing. She continues to lead the linked Fishlove campaign, which has seen a host of well known actors pose for photographs with a variety of fish.[24]

In October 2013, for her services to the arts she was made a knight in the Order of Merit of the Italian Republic.[25] In September 2017 she was the Festival Ambassador for the three week long Lavazza Italian Film Festival which ran in Sydney, Adelaide, Melbourne, Canberra, Brisbane, Perth and Hobart.[26]
Not a mention of her relationship with Mantegazza. He's not even recorded in the "partners" field on her bio box. There's a passing mention of him in the Talk page, but almost all of that discussion is an argument about whether she and Vincent d'Onofrio were formally married.

Obviously the media loves a good scandal and will do their best to whip one up from whatever material they have to work with, but as best I'm aware it just wasn't a big deal here in Australia. The fact that she was knighted by Italy and chosen as a PR ambassador for an Italian film festival suggests that it might not have been all that scandalous over there either. I checked a couple of other profiles and they tend to treat her relationship with Mantegazza as a one-sentence footnote, if that.

Quote:
I wouldn't make any sweeping conclusions about a Lit category I don't read and I'm suggesting you do the same. Cousin-cousin incest does just fine in Lit I/T. If I scan the Lit I/T top stories list for complete stories, #10 and #11 are cousin-cousin stories. #2 is about second cousins. What is important is not the closeness of the relationship but that it is considered taboo by people close to the main characters.
Mmm, I think you're being a little disingenuous in your mention of that "second cousin" story ("One Who Understands"). Just quoting from the first page, here's how the MCs refer to and think about one another:

Quote:
Grace had been delighted to find Ed was an easy going little brother who pretty much let her do anything to him as long as he was allowed to hang out with her. Dressing up, make up parties, you name it, if Grace wanted to do it Ed would be right there indulging his new big sister
...
Though they were second cousins they grew up together as brother and sister
...
"Buying a card for a girlfriend?" she said boldly.

He jolted a little then shook his head. "Sister. It's her birthday tomorrow."
...
If he hadn't been raised as her brother she would have been all over him. That thought made her stomach twist nervously like butterflies were duking it out inside her. She loved her 'little' brother but sometimes she got so confused.
...
She knew her brother loved her so she had to protect him from her lustful thoughts.
That's not so much "a story about second cousins" as a story about brother and sister (who happen to be adoptive, and also second cousins).

Quote:
In Jane Austen's "Emma", Emma marries her brother-in-law George Knightley. There are lots of sister-in-law stories in Lit I/T but Emma's marriage is not considered incest because...the family doesn't consider it incest.
Note that "sister-in-law"/"brother-in-law" is an ambiguous term which can mean two different kinds of connection.

#1 refers to one's spouse's sibling (or from the other side, one's sibling's spouse). #2 refers to one's sibling's partner's sibling. Obviously #2 is a more distant connection.

AFAICT, most (I'll grant not all) "brother-in-law"/"sister-in-law" stories here are about the first kind of in-law. That degree of kinship has often been considered too close for comfort. The most famous example is Henry VIII's marriage to Catherine of Aragon, who was the widow of his brother Arthur. Henry needed a special papal dispensation to allow the marriage, and eventually when he got tired of Catherine he used her previous marriage to Arthur as an excuse for an annulment. In Jane Austen's time such marriages weren't outright prohibited, but could be voided at the request of any interested party. They were banned altogether in 1835, and not legalised again until 1907. So while they're legal today in all jurisdictions that I'm aware of, there's definitely a history of prohibition and taboo there.

George Knightley is the second kind of "in-law": he's Emma's sister's husband's brother. As far as I know, that kind of marriage has never been considered problematic.

Quote:
The fact that is rare makes it more interesting to read about. Look, how often does a woman from modest means meet a wealthy man who had been brought up rich and the man quickly fall in love with her? Like "Pride and Prejudice"? Like "Pretty Woman"? Like "50 Shades of Grey"?
I'm not contesting that. I might quibble with that characterisation of P&P, but I agree with the broader point: unusual and exotic scenarios are often a big draw. I just don't think "realism" is a useful word for describing that kind of scenario.
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Old 10-11-2017, 09:45 PM   #63
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Not sure about that, but did you see the TV version of Bates Motel? There was some serious sexual tension between Norman and Norma Bates. People were begging for some mother-son action. They even shared a bed together. Hot stuff!

What show are you referring to with the aunt and nephew?
Not sure if anyone else answered this, but it was Game of Thrones, where Jon Snow had sex with Daenerys Targaryen, and it turns out that she is his aunt. Earlier in the series, Cersei and Jamie Lannister, brother and sister had sex and even had children.
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Old 10-15-2017, 10:30 PM   #64
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I have noted many, many of you write stories which are either NOT believeable, or VERY short on details. A hot seductive leadup is GOOD, but PLEASE add details like about the actual act of penetration, the sounds and feelings involved. I prefer M/S stories best, but Father/daughter ones are nice too. Especially love the "middle of the night" senarios.

Also, for heavens sake "DROP THE ANAL" Most don't care for it, MOST don't indulge, and you can bet your REAL mother wouldn't like that shit.
I am a fan of incest stories but part of the reason I like them is the taboo nature of it and we just don't get that in so many stories.

So often I read a story where the story starts out with the (and I will use a mother/son as an example) son already wants to have sex with his mother and there is no guilt about it at all, or where he sees his mother in a bikini and suddenly she goes from "just my mother" to "I want, no need to fuck her right now". It just does not feel remotely believable.

I like incest stories where there is guilt and hesitation and we just don't get that enough.
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Old 10-15-2017, 10:41 PM   #65
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Wow you guys got way into this for being such a new post, I don't mind lively debates but this is way over the top.

As some one who has and is currently in a incest relationship can I just say that all stories are a bit different, when my sister and I started having sex it was just that we were both horny no one was home and we were bold enough to ask for it. The first time we did Anal right away because she likes it and so do I and at the time we didn't want to chance her getting nocked up but after that we have had all kinds of sex so don't type cast incest stories based on your preference.

When I started to sleep with my mom it took a while longer because we had to accept the fact that mom was a women and I was the type of man she was attracted to so it made sense that she would want to feel me in her. For us Anal and all kinds of sex was on the table because she was older then me and had experienced everything before so she could show me new things and I could remind her of things she had missed for a long time.

After reading this thread I know it's just people trying to impose there view of Lit on others but I though you might like to know that real life incest couples are just as human as the rest of the world and if we like to fuck like porn stars then that is what we are going to do.
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Old 10-23-2017, 10:15 PM   #66
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As long as it's the discussion is on the topic of advice for writers, here are my thoughts (not that they are worth much):

These stories start out seriously stretching credulity.

If you are writing a quick yank story, great. Keep it to the point, get down and dirty quickly and wrap it up. There's nothing wrong with those stories. Complaining that there's not enough development in those stories is like complaining that there weren't enough starship battles in Citizen Kane.

If you're hoping to write something with more depth, added verisimilitude is desperately needed. Flesh out the characters. Talk about hobbies, make them conflicted, have them pursue other goals (a promotion at work, completing a marathon, making a gourmet meal, etc.), give them difficulties not related to the romance. Maybe they need to have corrective eye surgery, maybe they are a horrible driver.

Every time an author pushes credulity, they should add something that grounds the character and the story. If there is no balance you'll have a story with no depth or impact.
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Old 10-24-2017, 08:01 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Calista85 View Post
The topic of the thread is incest stories, meaning good bet the people posting like the genre and would have some good recommendations.

Can't find anything better to do than be rude?
The guy I quoted said he wanted incest videos. Thanks.
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Old 11-15-2017, 11:02 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by bytedj View Post
I have noted many, many of you write stories which are either NOT believeable, or VERY short on details. A hot seductive leadup is GOOD, but PLEASE add details like about the actual act of penetration, the sounds and feelings involved. I prefer M/S stories best, but Father/daughter ones are nice too. Especially love the "middle of the night" senarios.

Also, for heavens sake "DROP THE ANAL" Most don't care for it, MOST don't indulge, and you can bet your REAL mother wouldn't like that shit.
I am in full agreement, while it is difficult enough for a young inexperienced girl to take in the feelings of a sometime large penis, I don't believe she would love to be torn usunder by a large penis shoved inside her that can cause injury and be excruciating. But if it is written for men's fantasies, maybe it could stay in...
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