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Old 09-10-2017, 08:28 PM   #26
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Hell if I know. Remember Howard Stern? When he became popular a poll showed people who hated him listened longer than the people who liked him.
A perfect example of thou doth protest to loudly as the saying goes
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Old 09-10-2017, 08:45 PM   #27
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What show are you referring to with the aunt and nephew?
Um... spoiler alert if you haven't made it that far, but this one.
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Old 09-10-2017, 09:09 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by LaRascasse View Post
Not saying this is in any way representative of RL incest, but since the category does seem to be incest fantasy and not "incest as you see on the 6 o clock news", I guess we are allowed to take a few leaps of fancy here and there.
Sure! Fantasy is fine and doesn't have to bear any resemblance to RL. I'm happy to put it up there along with dragons, winters that can last for decades yet don't seem to have influenced the flora, fauna, and economy of the world, face-changing assassins, witches, and time-travelling telepathy, as things that can make for enjoyable fantasy.

I just don't think that "plausible" is a very helpful word in discussing that setting, unless it's heavily qualified.

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If you really want an RL case, there's this famous one.
That one wouldn't fly on Literotica. The linked article leaves out a couple of uncomfortable details: Susan Karolewski was sixteen when she gave birth to her brother's first child (he was about 23-24 at the time) and she had been diagnosed with dependent personality disorder. Even without the sibling aspect, that's well into creepy territory. Exactly what I'm talking about!

I think I've heard of one, maybe two cases of adult incest that didn't come across as abusive/exploitative. The one I can recall involved a brother and sister who didn't find out they were related until after they'd already fallen in love. But as far as I can tell that sort of scenario is very very rare, and I suspect it probably wouldn't be very popular as a Lit story, since the taboo feeling seems to be a big part of the draw.

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Originally Posted by Randy_Scribbler View Post
To be honest, I don't know of any RL cases of incest. I work on fiction -- always have, always will. I've read very few incest stories on Lit. I thrive on plausibility, and the stories here don't float my boat.
I don't understand how anybody reconciles those two statements in their heads. How are you determining what counts as "plausible" without reference to real life?

Me, I'm basing my comments here on what I've witnessed, both from friends who've been affected by incest, and from cases that have been covered more broadly. I acknowledge that media coverage has a bias towards train wrecks, for reasons that should be obvious, but even allowing for that, consensual non-exploitative adult incest seems to be vanishingly rare compared to the child-abuse kind.

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Like I said before, my incest stories revolve around foreplay, not penetrative sex. If a mother and son have a naked cuddle or wrestle and both enjoy it, do you deem that child abuse?
If she's doing it as a way of getting her rocks off? Hell yes.

And I really hope I don't need to explain why "the child enjoyed it" is not a justification for using a kid for sexual gratification.

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What if the experimentation between siblings was between two 18-year-old adults? Would that run afoul of Lit rules?
Nope. But at that point it's far less plausible; by the time both kids are eighteen, at least one of them usually has better options for experimentation.

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Your problem is, you're assuming that incest has to be either between minors or abusive, or both. That's a very narrow-minded way of thinking. Don't you think?
IMHO, "narrow-minded" would be making pronouncements about what is/isn't plausible without being familiar with a single RL case. Guess we'll have to differ on that.

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Originally Posted by Calista85 View Post
I'm a big fan of fantasy incest/taboo. We all know what the reality is, it isn't pretty.
From discussion above, I'm not sure that everybody does know the reality :-/

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Its funny to see more people saying a fantasy incest story is implausible, but very shy wall flower eighteen year old girls turning into gang banging porn stars in the span of five hundred words is plausible?
Oh, I'm not saying those are plausible either :-)

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Now to compare why is it I don't see a lot of this finger pointing about abuse when it comes to non consent stories? Rape is a real life crime, like incest, but in non consent the crime is being not only portrayed, but exaggerated and glorified whereas incest stories here are a 360 from real life.

I feel the same way about non consent stories, they are fantasy and I want to believe people know the difference and just because they read a rape story doesn't mean they'd do it, or take the real event event lightly.

But I have noticed a brutal rape story seems more acceptable than two 19 year old siblings fooling around. That's pretty unnerving TBH.
Oh, we've had threads about NC before. At least one of the forum regulars has Very Strong Opinions about NC stories and the people who write them.

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I'll finish up with people saying a plausible incest story can't be written are wrong. Any scenario can be written to be believable no matter what the subject matter is. Sci fi has people buying made up worlds, non human has people reading about were whatevers and they have no issue suspending disbelief about it so what's the issue here?
Depends what you mean by "plausible". If "plausible" = "possible to suspend disbelief enough to enjoy the story", then every highly-rated incest story on Literotica is plausible. But that's a very weak definition of the word, and presumably not the one the OP had in mind.

If "plausible" = "consistent with how the real world works"... well, I won't entirely rule it out, but I think it would be very hard to write a realistic incest story that fits within Literotica consent rules and still manages to appeal to the I/T readership.

I've seen the word "plausible" come up in quite a few discussions on the Lit forums, and it doesn't seem to be a very helpful one for discussion because the meaning is so hard to nail down. It usually seems to boil down to "matches my idea of realism in areas that I want to be realistic, but feel free to ignore realism where it would just get in the way of my fun". Since every reader draws those lines in different places, it doesn't get us anywhere.

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ETA to say that seeing how a lot of threads I have ghosted in the past seem to devolve from discussion into nasty arguing, I want to stress I'm not trying to be combative or argue, just voicing my opinions and in general my take on this topic is a I see a lot of inconsistency and personal prejudice about the subject which I am sure in the past leads to the shaming of people who stick up for the freedom of speech right to write whatever one wants to write however they'd like to write it.
I think I've made it very clear that I'm not telling anybody what they ought to write or read here. Just that people who want to use the word "plausible" in discussing their preferences might want to swap it out for something more conducive to constructive discussion.

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Old 09-10-2017, 09:14 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Calista85 View Post
Fantasy incest is the dirty secret many have, but can never admit publicly. This site proves it, taboo is far and away the most widely read category. Or are all those people just clicking it to voice their offense?
well... https://oglaf.com/annals/
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Old 09-10-2017, 09:33 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Bramblethorn View Post
Sure! Fantasy is fine and doesn't have to bear any resemblance to RL. I'm happy to put it up there along with dragons, winters that can last for decades yet don't seem to have influenced the flora, fauna, and economy of the world, face-changing assassins, witches, and time-travelling telepathy, as things that can make for enjoyable fantasy.

I just don't think that "plausible" is a very helpful word in discussing that setting, unless it's heavily qualified.



That one wouldn't fly on Literotica. The linked article leaves out a couple of uncomfortable details: Susan Karolewski was sixteen when she gave birth to her brother's first child (he was about 23-24 at the time) and she had been diagnosed with dependent personality disorder. Even without the sibling aspect, that's well into creepy territory. Exactly what I'm talking about!

I think I've heard of one, maybe two cases of adult incest that didn't come across as abusive/exploitative. The one I can recall involved a brother and sister who didn't find out they were related until after they'd already fallen in love. But as far as I can tell that sort of scenario is very very rare, and I suspect it probably wouldn't be very popular as a Lit story, since the taboo feeling seems to be a big part of the draw.



I don't understand how anybody reconciles those two statements in their heads. How are you determining what counts as "plausible" without reference to real life?

Me, I'm basing my comments here on what I've witnessed, both from friends who've been affected by incest, and from cases that have been covered more broadly. I acknowledge that media coverage has a bias towards train wrecks, for reasons that should be obvious, but even allowing for that, consensual non-exploitative adult incest seems to be vanishingly rare compared to the child-abuse kind.



If she's doing it as a way of getting her rocks off? Hell yes.

And I really hope I don't need to explain why "the child enjoyed it" is not a justification for using a kid for sexual gratification.



Nope. But at that point it's far less plausible; by the time both kids are eighteen, at least one of them usually has better options for experimentation.



IMHO, "narrow-minded" would be making pronouncements about what is/isn't plausible without being familiar with a single RL case. Guess we'll have to differ on that.



From discussion above, I'm not sure that everybody does know the reality :-/



Oh, I'm not saying those are plausible either :-)



Oh, we've had threads about NC before. At least one of the forum regulars has Very Strong Opinions about NC stories and the people who write them.



Depends what you mean by "plausible". If "plausible" = "possible to suspend disbelief enough to enjoy the story", then every highly-rated incest story on Literotica is plausible. But that's a very weak definition of the word, and presumably not the one the OP had in mind.

If "plausible" = "consistent with how the real world works"... well, I won't entirely rule it out, but I think it would be very hard to write a realistic incest story that fits within Literotica consent rules and still manages to appeal to the I/T readership.

I've seen the word "plausible" come up in quite a few discussions on the Lit forums, and it doesn't seem to be a very helpful one for discussion because the meaning is so hard to nail down. It usually seems to boil down to "matches my idea of realism in areas that I want to be realistic, but feel free to ignore realism where it would just get in the way of my fun". Since every reader draws those lines in different places, it doesn't get us anywhere.



I think I've made it very clear that I'm not telling anybody what they ought to write or read here. Just that people who want to use the word "plausible" in discussing their preferences might want to swap it out for something more conducive to constructive discussion.
I don't think highly rated equates plausible, it means enjoyable and not much more. In fact the ones I would deem plausible-as in able to make a reader think, screw fiction, this could really happen-are either lower rated or have good ratings, but based on a low readership.

What I mean my plausible is simply as I just said, could I see this happening in real life? Example...the countless stories where a mom sees her son's dick and wants to hop on? Um, no.

The equally cliched mom rides in a car on her son's lap and sex occurs? Equally um, no.

But siblings separated for years, then reunited and there is a strong attraction? That's called Genetic sexual attraction and is a real thing. Siblings driven into a closer bond than they should have because of a bad upbringing? Believable. The stretch here is that in reality the contact would happen before 18 so if plausibility is lost here its the fact they need to be adults.

Lovecraft68 wrote a story called That damned red dress. It's depressing, heart breaking, the incest is not non consent, but its an act of sacrifice not lust. In the end believe it or not it comes out as a story of love.

The plausible part was that after the creepyish sexual encounter the daughter did not suddenly become daddy's little sex toy and when the father ultimately realized what happened he was appalled to the point he sought help for his addiction and got his act together.

That is still a stretch, but the rawness and emotion was very real in a gritty train wreck way. But that proves my earlier point that what I could see as plausible would most likely not turn on the average reader here because end of the day they want far fetched.

As they say, its all good and there's two sides to every coin. I appreciate you're thoughtful responses.

And to be clear I have no issue with non consent or dubious consent etc. Its not my thing, but its someone's and as long as its in the context of fantasy no harm no foul. I was just making a point that it seems rape content is more acceptable then consensual incest which seems off to me, but I guess key word is me.

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Old 09-24-2017, 11:33 PM   #31
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Um... spoiler alert if you haven't made it that far, but this one.
Oh yeah. I *am* aware of the incest content in that show. Never watch it, so it wouldn't have occurred to me.
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Old 09-25-2017, 05:13 AM   #32
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Um... spoiler alert if you haven't made it that far, but this one.
Yeah, man, that show's fucking awesome. My favorite scene is an early episode where Caitlin Stark is taking Tyrion Lannister to the Eyrie to put him on trail for attempted murder. When she arrives, her sister, Lysa Arryn, is sitting there with her teenage son across her lap sucking on her tit.

Honestly, I watched that scene over a hundred times. That is the stuff dreams are made of.
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Old 09-27-2017, 07:04 AM   #33
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One thing I have noted is the plausible incest stories do have a dark taint to them. That's what makes it realistic. In real life something has to be wrong for siblings or parent/adult child to be drawn to each other as lovers.

Beyond the Borderline and Siblings with Benefits are the best examples of those types of stories I've found here.
Since posting my own story and more recently a very good friends story I've had many emails from parent/offspring, and sibling couples. Their stories are plausible, but as you say, most have a dark element to them, some pretty well horrific. I've found to my surprise that their are many more of these couples than I could had imagined, yes, in real life!
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Old 09-27-2017, 10:50 AM   #34
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Since posting my own story and more recently a very good friends story I've had many emails from parent/offspring, and sibling couples. Their stories are plausible, but as you say, most have a dark element to them, some pretty well horrific. I've found to my surprise that their are many more of these couples than I could had imagined, yes, in real life!
There's a lot of it going on these days. Especially mother-son frolicking. Not so much full penetrative sex, but most certainly the more romantic, light-hearted stuff -- naked cuddles, naked wrestles, showering together, suckling on the tit whilst watching TV. It's a great way to build a strong bond between a mother and her son.

It's the 21st century for fucks sake. Us younger generation are more liberal than the old fuddy-duddies.
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Old 09-27-2017, 10:50 AM   #35
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I think I've heard of one, maybe two cases of adult incest that didn't come across as abusive/exploitative.
Here is another one for you.

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Originally Posted by Bramblethorn View Post
The one I can recall involved a brother and sister who didn't find out they were related until after they'd already fallen in love. But as far as I can tell that sort of scenario is very very rare, and I suspect it probably wouldn't be very popular as a Lit story, since the taboo feeling seems to be a big part of the draw.
In My European Summer Vacation, the FMC doesn't find out until they are related until they've been together for months and she's already thinking of marriage. The MMC found out a few days after they started sleeping together. It has a 4.84 rating and was in the I/T Hall of Fame for a while.

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Originally Posted by Bramblethorn View Post
Me, I'm basing my comments here on what I've witnessed, both from friends who've been affected by incest, and from cases that have been covered more broadly. I acknowledge that media coverage has a bias towards train wrecks, for reasons that should be obvious, but even allowing for that, consensual non-exploitative adult incest seems to be vanishingly rare compared to the child-abuse kind.
Cousins used to marry all the time. It wasn't until the 60's that it stopped being a common occurrence in most of the developed world. In many countries, intra-family marriages are still very common. You're from Australia, right? Australia has a very low rate of intra-family marriage but still is estimated to have 50,000 family members married to each other (link). How does that compare with the number of incest child abuse cases in Australia?

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I don't understand how anybody reconciles those two statements in their heads. How are you determining what counts as "plausible" without reference to real life?
Depends what you are using as a reference. If you're using Greta Scacchi as a realistic incest experience, then many of the I/T stories on LitE are plausible. If you're using the dad/uncle who molests his fourteen-year-old daughter/niece as a reference, not so much.
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Old 09-27-2017, 11:12 AM   #36
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Old 09-27-2017, 11:54 AM   #37
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This was easy to find.
Much higher than I thought.

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Wouldn't you agree that even one case is too many cases no matter how many consensual relationships there are?
That's not the question at hand. The question at hand is "Can there be any consensual incest relationships between adults given the number of of non-consensual incest relationships?"
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Old 09-27-2017, 02:42 PM   #38
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Here are my personal preferences. Authors, when I give you specific instructions, for heaven's sake, follow them! What are you, writing for your own enjoyment, or what?
For most writers, the answer is "yes". Peoole assume most of these stories are written for readers but a lot of it is the other way around.
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Old 09-27-2017, 05:22 PM   #39
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Old 09-27-2017, 06:38 PM   #40
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It's a bad question that doesn't help make a point. It's like asking, "Can there be a legal way for drunk drives to drive because most make it home at night compared to those who crash."
I don't think this is a good comparison.

You're saying that because you believe most (if not all) I/T is a horrible thing IRL, then ANY I/T is a horrible thing because it almost always involves some sort of abuse.

A doesn't always equal B.
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Old 09-27-2017, 08:19 PM   #41
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Old 09-28-2017, 11:29 AM   #42
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It's a bad question that doesn't help make a point.
It's bad for you. For me, it puts as a question what many people on these forums have stated as a fact - that the stories in I/T are all fantasies as real life incest is always nonconsensual. Bramblethorn, to her credit, didn't state it quite that strongly. People who make that statement are of course ignoring the many, many intra-family marriages that are out there.
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Old 09-28-2017, 02:41 PM   #43
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Old 10-01-2017, 08:59 AM   #44
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It's bad for you. For me, it puts as a question what many people on these forums have stated as a fact - that the stories in I/T are all fantasies as real life incest is always nonconsensual. Bramblethorn, to her credit, didn't state it quite that strongly. People who make that statement are of course ignoring the many, many intra-family marriages that are out there.
I agree that first and foremost everything here is fantasy including all the bestiality disguised as 'non human' on this site. But it is all make believe like all fiction.

I agree too that in real life incest is not 100% non consensual or abuse especially in other parts of the world. The US is still pathetically close minded to certain things showing that in spite of a very liberal progressive movement old fashioned religious family values still hold sway....at least on the surface, because the popularity of fantasy incest shows what they really think when they're alone in the dark
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Old 10-07-2017, 12:11 AM   #45
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I never said what I believed. I said 8letters question was a bad question. Let go of your tunnel vision on the topic and don't read what I haven't said in what I say.
You don't have to actually type specific words for people to understand what you are saying - allegories are simple ciphers after all. But, then there's this:

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Wouldn't you agree that even one case is too many cases no matter how many consensual relationships there are?
So, was it my tunnel vision or your deflection away from what you actually said?
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Old 10-07-2017, 01:15 AM   #46
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Old 10-07-2017, 09:26 AM   #47
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I pointed out flaws in another person's statements. Statements that don't help him create a persuasive argument. I never said what my stance was. If you want to read into it, go ahead, it won't change that you are trying to create a view of me with no actual knowledge of my views on the topic. I didn't agree with the man's logic. I've seen you post on the forums. I'd say you have some tunnel vision in you. How much? That's for me to guess and you to know and for me to never find out.

I'm out of this topic now.
You say you were only pointing out flaws in your adversary's argument, yet YOU SAID what you said. That's not that difficult for anyone to see. When pushed into the corner you made for yourself, you immediately went into attack mode where you ascribed motives to me in order to deflect from your weak position. Again, that's not that difficult for anyone to see.

Then you ran away. Oops, bad form.

Here's the thing about debate and discussion; you don't have to agree with anyone, but you have to be truthful to the argument. In this case your allegory wasn't a good comparison BECAUSE no one volunteers to be injured or killed in a collision with a drunk driver. YET, the world around, consensual incest exists and has existed for centuries without abuse.

The 2 do not compare. You won't admit that BECAUSE you believe (as YOU SAID) that 1 case of abuse is 1 case too many no matter how many other non-abuse cases there are. YOU SAID IT. I didn't make it up, or tweak your words, or read anything into it. YOU SAID IT right there for everyone to see and read.

Those are your words, not mine, which indicate your position on the issue. It is flawed from concept to delivery. If you want a truly apt comparison with your stated position, rather than the lame drunk driving comparison, then 1 abusive marriage is sufficient to outlaw ALL marriages. Defend that if you can while continuing to defend your position on incest. I doubt you can. I doubt anyone can.
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Old 10-07-2017, 11:37 AM   #48
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You say you were only pointing out flaws in your adversary's argument, yet YOU SAID what you said. That's not that difficult for anyone to see. When pushed into the corner you made for yourself, you immediately went into attack mode where you ascribed motives to me in order to deflect from your weak position. Again, that's not that difficult for anyone to see.

Then you ran away. Oops, bad form.

Here's the thing about debate and discussion; you don't have to agree with anyone, but you have to be truthful to the argument. In this case your allegory wasn't a good comparison BECAUSE no one volunteers to be injured or killed in a collision with a drunk driver. YET, the world around, consensual incest exists and has existed for centuries without abuse.

The 2 do not compare. You won't admit that BECAUSE you believe (as YOU SAID) that 1 case of abuse is 1 case too many no matter how many other non-abuse cases there are. YOU SAID IT. I didn't make it up, or tweak your words, or read anything into it. YOU SAID IT right there for everyone to see and read.

Those are your words, not mine, which indicate your position on the issue. It is flawed from concept to delivery. If you want a truly apt comparison with your stated position, rather than the lame drunk driving comparison, then 1 abusive marriage is sufficient to outlaw ALL marriages. Defend that if you can while continuing to defend your position on incest. I doubt you can. I doubt anyone can.
I think KindOfHere is being intentionally vague about his position on everything. Of his four published stories, two are incest and both of them have near-HOF ratings.
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Old 10-07-2017, 02:16 PM   #49
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Besides stories, does anyone

know a really good incest video? Mom and son or dad and daughter.
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Old 10-07-2017, 02:38 PM   #50
Calista85
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Calista85 is offline
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by needit700 View Post
know a really good incest video? Mom and son or dad and daughter.
Ton of great ones in the link below

http://forum.literotica.com/showthre...150031&page=34
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