Acheiving consent...

How do you go about getting (or giving) consent? What does it look like, and what does it meant to you?

Ummmmm

"Do you like this?"

"Yes"

"Would you like to try it with me?"

"Yes"

Ta-da!

Communication, communication, communication.

Specific and direct questions with forthright answers tend to do the trick. If we didn't discuss it and agree on it, then I'm not going to do it.

richard_daily said:

How do you go about getting (or giving) consent? What does it look like, and what does it meant to you?

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Step 1: become a nerd.

For me it depends a lot on the context.

My husband and I have been together for a long time and in most sexual everyday situations we can play by ear. We read each other well and are comfortable telling each other in plain speak what we want and when something isn't quite right.
We talk about new ideas we want to try out, well in advance.

With someone new or when going outside the comfort zone with new ideas, I think there is a need more structured ways to communicate in the actual situation. Like the traffic light system or for example "You really like this, huh? Tell me what you want me to do?".

If you were thinking of contracts, they are not my thing.
If I need to hit you over the head with a paper about what limits we decided on, I'd rather go be with someone else.

IrisAlthea said:

For me it depends a lot on the context.

My husband and I have been together for a long time and in most sexual everyday situations we can play by ear. We read each other well and are comfortable telling each other in plain speak what we want and when something isn't quite right.
We talk about new ideas we want to try out, well in advance.

With someone new or when going outside the comfort zone with new ideas, I think there is a need more structured ways to communicate in the actual situation. Like the traffic light system or for example "You really like this, huh? Tell me what you want me to do?".

If you were thinking of contracts, they are not my thing.
If I need to hit you over the head with a paper about what limits we decided on, I'd rather go be with someone else.

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I think in the context of primary, or established partners, it's a fairly cut and dry method of attaining (and giving) consent. You (hopefully) have reached a level of intimacy and understanding about what works and what doesn't.

I'm primarily curious about how people act to give or get consent within the context of new or non-established relationships...

I'll tell you the truth; I hate it. I'm an old dog, I guess. It's awkward, embarrassing, my words dry up. How can I actually ask for someone else to spend all that effort on my masturbatory fantasies? What makes me so great? What could they get out of it-- and did I forget to talk about health concerns? (yeah most likely)

I am always relieved when my potential partner is a Young dog who is used to the concept and can read the script with ease. Dunno how they do it...

Stella_Omega said:

I'll tell you the truth; I hate it. I'm an old dog, I guess. It's awkward, embarrassing, my words dry up. How can I actually ask for someone else to spend all that effort on my masturbatory fantasies? What makes me so great? What could they get out of it-- and did I forget to talk about health concerns? (yeah most likely)

I am always relieved when my potential partner is a Young dog who is used to the concept and can read the script with ease. Dunno how they do it...

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I dislike literal negotiation, but I don't hate the concept, or actual consent. I think this is kind of what I'm getting at. I don't find that I gel well with those that need to achieve or give consent at every step, so I'm curious as to how others go about doing it.

I'm much more of a "feel it out" type of person, than an "ask if you can kiss someone" kind of guy.

Is that just old fashioned? Or do those sorts of consent value judgements exist only in certain realms?

I wish I were much better at consent; I've been in a number of really precarious situations because I clam up and am not able to communicate this shit very well.

Did my husband sexually assault me during our first sexual encounter? That was like, 5 years ago and I'm still not really sure. That's how out of touch I am an why I can't trust myself to make that kind of decision, what should be a pretty simple thing. It sounds awful, but I just consider myself lucky that I liked him and that he turned out to be a real upstanding person (and now feminist). I guess I could say that I had "orchestrated" my consent by creating the situation, which I think is the best job that I can psychologically do when it comes to initial sexual encounters. This sounds like I'm blaming myself for any potential past or future assaults, but I'm not. Nonconsensual encounters are wrong full-stop, but I'm just starting to become aware of my limitations and the way I process relationships that put me at a disadvantage o that I can better arm myself in the future with strategies that work for me.

When Master and I first met online, almost 15 years ago eek, and since we were too far apart to just visit each other, we talked a LOT. We never did checklists or anything like that, we just shared our past experiences, talked about things that we were curious about, things that we flat out weren't willing to try, things that really turned us on.

By the time we finally did get to meet we had a pretty good sense of who we were, to each other. I would venture to say we were both nervous, and not entirely certain we would be 'just right' for each other, but it turned out we were just about spot on. In addition, Master gave me a safeword in our early days just in case we weren't quite in synch with each other.

richard_daily said:

I dislike literal negotiation, but I don't hate the concept, or actual consent. I think this is kind of what I'm getting at. I don't find that I gel well with those that need to achieve or give consent at every step, so I'm curious as to how others go about doing it.

I'm much more of a "feel it out" type of person, than an "ask if you can kiss someone" kind of guy.

Is that just old fashioned? Or do those sorts of consent value judgements exist only in certain realms?

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I agree but I guess I would feel differently if I were doing more high-risk stuff.
There is also a high probability that I'm old fashioned.

On the other hand, I can be very open with how I feel and what I want and I'm not hard to read in a relationship. If I'm enthusiastic or hesitant, you will know and I want my partners to be like that too.
I don't like to have to stumble in the dark and guess if the other person is even interested.

desertslave said:

When Master and I first met online, almost 15 years ago eek, and since we were too far apart to just visit each other, we talked a LOT. We never did checklists or anything like that, we just shared our past experiences, talked about things that we were curious about, things that we flat out weren't willing to try, things that really turned us on.

By the time we finally did get to meet we had a pretty good sense of who we were, to each other. I would venture to say we were both nervous, and not entirely certain we would be 'just right' for each other, but it turned out we were just about spot on. In addition, Master gave me a safeword in our early days just in case we weren't quite in synch with each other.

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The bolded part is something I think is really important.
I want to know what makes the other person tick, but I prefer conversation over negotiation.

And then there is this:

Some (many?) people don't know in advance what is going to freak them out.

They can't give you those limits because until they are confronted with something that triggers them they are unaware of it.

So, stuff happens sometimes that is unexpected and must be dealt with.

FurryFury said:

And then there is this:

Some (many?) people don't know in advance what is going to freak them out.

They can't give you those limits because until they are confronted with something that triggers them they are unaware of it.

So, stuff happens sometimes that is unexpected and must be dealt with.

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In my view, part of the deep structure of consent is allowing yourself to be put into situations that might trigger an ill response and trusting your partner to handle the surprise in a loving way. None of us ever knows for sure how we'll react to a new sexual stimulus. Surprises happen on both sides of the crop, so to speak, so both parties are consenting to be vulnerable and to be loving at the same time.

I so agree. It seems many get this view of being harsh as part of the thing and forget about being loving and supportive.

midwestyankee said:

In my view, part of the deep structure of consent is allowing yourself to be put into situations that might trigger an ill response and trusting your partner to handle the surprise in a loving way. None of us ever knows for sure how we'll react to a new sexual stimulus. Surprises happen on both sides of the crop, so to speak, so both parties are consenting to be vulnerable and to be loving at the same time.

Click to expand...

desertslave said:

When Master and I first met online, almost 15 years ago eek, and since we were too far apart to just visit each other, we talked a LOT. We never did checklists or anything like that, we just shared our past experiences, talked about things that we were curious about, things that we flat out weren't willing to try, things that really turned us on.

By the time we finally did get to meet we had a pretty good sense of who we were, to each other. I would venture to say we were both nervous, and not entirely certain we would be 'just right' for each other, but it turned out we were just about spot on. In addition, Master gave me a safeword in our early days just in case we weren't quite in synch with each other.

Click to expand...

I think that's one end of the spectrum of discussing consent. Obviously, if you aren't going to meet for a long time, there is plenty of room to figure out what makes someone else tick, and what they're interested in.

KoPilot said:

I wish I were much better at consent; I've been in a number of really precarious situations because I clam up and am not able to communicate this shit very well.

Did my husband sexually assault me during our first sexual encounter? That was like, 5 years ago and I'm still not really sure. That's how out of touch I am an why I can't trust myself to make that kind of decision, what should be a pretty simple thing. It sounds awful, but I just consider myself lucky that I liked him and that he turned out to be a real upstanding person (and now feminist). I guess I could say that I had "orchestrated" my consent by creating the situation, which I think is the best job that I can psychologically do when it comes to initial sexual encounters. This sounds like I'm blaming myself for any potential past or future assaults, but I'm not. Nonconsensual encounters are wrong full-stop, but I'm just starting to become aware of my limitations and the way I process relationships that put me at a disadvantage o that I can better arm myself in the future with strategies that work for me.

Click to expand...

And then there's the other side of the coin, where I tend to skirt around with edge play, and consent really becomes more of an art than a science. It's obviously invaluable and critically important to be able to read a partner in these sorts of situations.

That said, if you are feeling violated in a way that you're not comfortable with or enjoying, do you think that it's your responsibility (I'm using a general "your" here, not pointing any fingers) to speak up and vocalize those negative feelings?

I like the concept of consent orchestration, but obviously it's not a perfect solution for everyone. It would be far too easy for someone to victim blame if consent was violated in that sort of situation. However, if the top/dom/me is willing to take responsibility for their actions, I think for me, that's the way that I think works best. You get the passion and excitement, but also the feeling that there is both safety and security, and still an element of danger to it all.

IrisAlthea said:

I agree but I guess I would feel differently if I were doing more high-risk stuff.
There is also a high probability that I'm old fashioned.

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Well, in this case, old-fashioned may mean something quite different than it does in other places.


I enjoy high risk stuff. With that in mind, consent has a lot of additional considerations that have to take place... especially because there is typically very little negotiation once things get going.

I wouldn't want to violate someone in ways that don't get them off.

IrisAlthea said:

On the other hand, I can be very open with how I feel and what I want and I'm not hard to read in a relationship. If I'm enthusiastic or hesitant, you will know and I want my partners to be like that too.
I don't like to have to stumble in the dark and guess if the other person is even interested.

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I wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment. Without communication, be it verbal, or otherwise, it all tends to fall apart pretty quickly, or worse... get really boring.

This is where filthy talk skills and seductive interrogation fetish become useful. Saying things openly doesn't have to be a snooze and it doesn't have to be mechanical.

A buzzkill: too many issues and kinks raised at once. Checklists are hot when you spend time on each item that grabs you viscerally. They're not hot when they feel like a midterm.

With T this is my Favorite Thing. I can while away a lot of time duct taping him to things and discussing what we would want to do given more time and opportunity and making him admit to really weird things out loud. God, do I get mileage on that.

I've put in lots of time playing hard and weird, and lots of time just dreaming on paper, and they're both pretty exciting.

Netzach said:

This is where filthy talk skills and seductive interrogation fetish become useful. Saying things openly doesn't have to be a snooze and it doesn't have to be mechanical.

A buzzkill: too many issues and kinks raised at once. Checklists are hot when you spend time on each item that grabs you viscerally. They're not hot when they feel like a midterm.

With T this is my Favorite Thing. I can while away a lot of time duct taping him to things and discussing what we would want to do given more time and opportunity and making him admit to really weird things out loud. God, do I get mileage on that.

I've put in lots of time playing hard and weird, and lots of time just dreaming on paper, and they're both pretty exciting.

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Yes, the dirty talk questioning is what I hinted at earlier. Fun to do and makes me squirm happily when done to me.

Agree about the buzzkill too.
A long laundrylist of kinks can remind me of those neverending menues at bad restaurants, where you know everything comes halfbaked out of the freezer.

And then there is the problem of fantasy versus reality.

Some of the things that are really fun fantasies, just don't have the same entertainment value in real life....

richard_daily said:

And then there's the other side of the coin, where I tend to skirt around with edge play, and consent really becomes more of an art than a science. It's obviously invaluable and critically important to be able to read a partner in these sorts of situations.

That said, if you are feeling violated in a way that you're not comfortable with or enjoying, do you think that it's your responsibility (I'm using a general "your" here, not pointing any fingers) to speak up and vocalize those negative feelings?

I like the concept of consent orchestration, but obviously it's not a perfect solution for everyone. It would be far too easy for someone to victim blame if consent was violated in that sort of situation. However, if the top/dom/me is willing to take responsibility for their actions, I think for me, that's the way that I think works best. You get the passion and excitement, but also the feeling that there is both safety and security, and still an element of danger to it all.

Click to expand...

Some people just don't like giving consent, or can't bring themselves to do it because of baggage or whatever, and in that case I think maybe it's the other person's responsibility to weigh the risk in that case: if they aren't comfortable continuing without a definitive 'yes' in any way, then they need to stop. If they're OK with potentially mis-reading and fucking up big time, then... continue I guess. Still sounds like shit.

For me, I'm going to compare myself to a blind person (noseblind, faceblind, or what have you) in that I KNOW that I'm lacking this sense that most other people take for granted, so I'm going to try not to put myself in situations that rely on me being able to see to navigate them properly. In the past I knew that I couldn't trust myself to give or withdraw consent reliably, so as soon as someone started showing sexual or romantic interest in me, I'd shut it down as soon as I started perceiving that situation being constructed. I'd play dumb, literally. I'd try to come across as the most boring and airheaded person as I could to make them lose interest so I wouldn't have to say "no thanks". And it worked. It was a survival strategy.

Orchestrating my consent for that encounter took days, honestly. It wasn't just one evening of "haha let's get drunk together and see what happens", it was a weekend of carefully orchestrated signals I was trying to convey because I literally don't understand flirting or how to be sexual or any of that. It was me resting my head on his shoulder here, getting him a drink and a snack when he was stuck at an event there, a little hand-holding, a little falling asleep on him. Our first kiss, and my first kiss ever, was thrilling and all that, but I honestly never want a first kiss with anyone ever again. I'd rather just go straight to the caning and cuddling in the future. (And sitting-up cuddling, not tangled-up-together cuddling.)

So yeah. I can't give consent in those situations. It's like that part of my brain was lobotomized out, it's such a weird blank spot in an otherwise pretty complete understanding of interpersonal relationships.

Cumference said:

And then there is the problem of fantasy versus reality.

Some of the things that are really fun fantasies, just don't have the same entertainment value in real life....

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Lol, may be where my other problem is. I'm just not all that jazzed about much of anything sexual IRL when contrasting it with fantasy.