Trust and Honesty...opinions please

Honesty and Trust

Two extremely innocent and unassuming words. Study them. Think about them. Taste them. Inhale them. Devour them. Commit to them if your desires take you past the bedroom games of Domination and submission and into the lifestyle you say you crave. Without one the other cannot exist.
Honesty is the backbone of integrity and tests the vulnerability of a submissive as he or she lays their life completely open at the feet of the Dominant they have chosen to present the gift of their submission to.

A word that speaks volumes that so many never even think about. So easily the single word * honest!* without a thought of the consequences to the subtleties of slight deceptions in the purity of the statement, can pass the lips before they pass the brain.

Honesty has no less importance when it is presented by the Dominant. To mouth the word in insincerety shows Her weakness. Her honesty must be in all things and at all times for it is the strength of Her committment.One digression can bring down Her house of cards.

"Trust lost is seldom regained."

"Let them have all the low ground....I just want a sliver of the high ground."

"Truth sticks out like a sore thumb in most places, because it's so rare and shiny."

Lance

Shadowsdream said:

Honesty and Trust

Two extremely innocent and unassuming words. Study them. Think about them. Taste them. Inhale them. Devour them. Commit to them if your desires take you past the bedroom games of Domination and submission and into the lifestyle you say you crave. Without one the other cannot exist.
Honesty is the backbone of integrity and tests the vulnerability of a submissive as he or she lays their life completely open at the feet of the Dominant they have chosen to present the gift of their submission to.

A word that speaks volumes that so many never even think about. So easily the single word * honest!* without a thought of the consequences to the subtleties of slight deceptions in the purity of the statement, can pass the lips before they pass the brain.

Honesty has no less importance when it is presented by the Dominant. To mouth the word in insincerety shows Her weakness. Her honesty must be in all things and at all times for it is the strength of Her committment.One digression can bring down Her house of cards.

Click to expand...

Shadowsdream said:

Honesty and Trust

Two extremely innocent and unassuming words. Study them. Think about them. Taste them. Inhale them. Devour them. Commit to them if your desires take you past the bedroom games of Domination and submission and into the lifestyle you say you crave. Without one the other cannot exist.
Honesty is the backbone of integrity and tests the vulnerability of a submissive as he or she lays their life completely open at the feet of the Dominant they have chosen to present the gift of their submission to.

A word that speaks volumes that so many never even think about. So easily the single word * honest!* without a thought of the consequences to the subtleties of slight deceptions in the purity of the statement, can pass the lips before they pass the brain.

Honesty has no less importance when it is presented by the Dominant. To mouth the word in insincerety shows Her weakness. Her honesty must be in all things and at all times for it is the strength of Her committment.One digression can bring down Her house of cards.

Click to expand...

~~~~~~I wish I were able to post to your threads, Shadow. They are intense and amazing. And I learn a great deal from reading them. However, *honestly*, I am inadequate to even attempt to do so.

Thank you for them,
Rose

Shadowsdream said:

Honesty and Trust

Two extremely innocent and unassuming words. Study them. Think about them. Taste them. Inhale them. Devour them. Commit to them if your desires take you past the bedroom games of Domination and submission and into the lifestyle you say you crave. Without one the other cannot exist.
Honesty is the backbone of integrity and tests the vulnerability of a submissive as he or she lays their life completely open at the feet of the Dominant they have chosen to present the gift of their submission to.

A word that speaks volumes that so many never even think about. So easily the single word * honest!* without a thought of the consequences to the subtleties of slight deceptions in the purity of the statement, can pass the lips before they pass the brain.

Honesty has no less importance when it is presented by the Dominant. To mouth the word in insincerety shows Her weakness. Her honesty must be in all things and at all times for it is the strength of Her committment.One digression can bring down Her house of cards.

Click to expand...

Shadows, I humbly stand in awe of your eloquence once again. The words you have written here are so very true for me. My thought is that you have my utter and total agreement on honesty and trust. I also don't believe you can have one without the other. Thank you for you wonderful words.


dixi

Lance

Very well put Lance and it took you just a few sentences against My verbosity (sp?)

Rose

~~~smile~~~

Look up...you just posted to a thread of Mine..and with an honest intent and an honest heart....Thank you but please never feel inadequate in My presense for I don't find you so...*honestly*

Thank you....

Shadowsdream said:

Rose

~~~smile~~~

Look up...you just posted to a thread of Mine..and with an honest intent and an honest heart....Thank you but please never feel inadequate in My presense for I don't find you so...*honestly*

Click to expand...

You are very kind to say so.
Rose

A pleasure to see you here dixi...

It is often that I learn so much from those kind enough to join Me in conversation.

Shadowsdream said:

A word that speaks volumes that so many never even think about. So easily the single word * honest!* without a thought of the consequences to the subtleties of slight deceptions in the purity of the statement, can pass the lips before they pass the brain.

Click to expand...

Honesty is a goal, a grail, a touchstone living in the exact center of the intersection between who we are (we who are submissive) and who we so fervently wish to be and between who you want (you who are dominant) and who are trying to be.

We tend toward honesty.
We try to be honest.
We succeed and we fail - and we keep trying.

Without the honest reality of our lives as they intersect with yours, what lies between us is but a game of sensations as the deeper reality gets lost in the wild rush of play. Without the painful utterances of jagged truth, true commitment remains a thing of skin, on the surface, not spiking into our lives in any meaningful manner. Without the intangible but blazingly real link between truth and trust, we might as well just stick to masturbation and non-power-exchange relationships.

The "subtleties of slight deceptions" that are so pervasive in our words and deeds aren't deliberately antagonistic in nature. They're self-protective, perhaps, or unconscious. We need to be truthful. We intend to be truthful. We crave the freedom of the truth.

But we want to please you, too.
We want to make you happy.
We want to bring a smile to your face.

Yes, we trust you!
Yes, it is to you we come with our worries and our fears as much as our joys and our humor. But we'd rather make you smile and bring you contentment, not cause a frown to appear on your face.

And therein lies the paradoxical nature of our existence at your side: we need to be truthful but we also need to please you. Which need is more important? Can they exist simultaneously - all the time? Which do you value more?

Help us find a way to do both at once and you'll help us grow into a deeper understading of our basic nature while also doing that which is our joy: pleasing you.

Honesty and time

Can honesty be achieved in haste? I think not.

Time builds trust and increases the chances for honesty to be attained AND maintained.

Eb

cym

(And therein lies the paradoxical nature of our existence at your side: we need to be truthful but we also need to please you. Which need is more important? Can they exist simultaneously - all the time? Which do you value more? )

Being truthful does please this Domme. I look so deep into the toys I cherish that even the most subtle hedge of honesty even if it is meant to ease My day is caught and faced with displeasure.

For to let it slip would signal I don't notice or I don't care. Neither serves either of U/us in the fullfillment of the magic between U/us.
Small transgressions or mistakes are simply human nature but even those I believe need correction simply because it reinforces the seriousness I take in My Domination....

I will take it a little further

Eb You are correct it takes time to build the trust but it also takes the honesty to begin..honesty cannot afford time to develope. What do You think?

Trust is established through honesty and becomes the building block needed to sustain a relationship as intense and complex as the one that hinges on the D/s conception. Trust is earned on both sides of the equasion and of course it goes without saying that it cannot be earned..EVER..if it is expected to be found in dishonesty. The Dominant will easily bore of the submissive that plays the vanilla head games already known to destroy relationships.
She seldom wastes her time trying to regain the honesty from the one so foolish as to have tried to play the game with her. Dominants are known to bore easily and to move on quickly when the respect for their submissive has become diminished through such foolishness. If she does continue to try to work through the moment it is likely she will do so in less joy and at a slower pace. The Dominant will know she has been made a fool of by the one she trusted above all others and it is likely her mind will question their honesty in all things for a very long time to come. She may begin to set traps to test honesty, these traps test her integrity and keep an anger burning like a low grade fever or an unquenched thirst. Once a submissive has tasted the dishonesty of his or her Dominant they will lose their sense of security and safety under her protection. They will see her as a weakened individual that does not deserve respect and devotion. Each word she speaks will have a watered down effect upon their submission as questions of her believability flicker like random fears throughout their minds. It may take some time before they realize that trust has gone out of the window and the relationship becomes more remote.
It is normal for both sides of submission and Domination to begin to hold parts of themselves back once trust begins to erode. It is simply that self preservation becomes more important than the relationship.

Honesty

One must have the capacity for honesty in the first place, and be motivated to use it.

I was thinking of the fact that lying is so much work, and over time, the truth always comes out if you choose to see it.

Eb

Re: Honesty and time

Ebonyfire said:

Time builds trust and increases the chances for honesty to be attained AND maintained.

Click to expand...

Yes.
We learn over time that our honesty is rewarded.
We learn to trust the solidity of the bond we have with our dominant because our honesty is rewarded.
We learn that we can only get/give what we need and want via the aupices of emotional honesty.

We begin by shielding our innermost self against hurt, against flame, against that which would do us harm - and so, we are not completely honest. We hold bits of ourselves in reserve, waiting to see if it's safe to open, to reveal, to be vunerable.

As time passes, we learn that the shielding is, in fact, unnecessary. More than unnecessary, it become cumbersome and problematic - and then it becomes an impediment to the very control and trust we crave.

If we are not open and honest, we are informing our dominant, in essence, that we cannot trust them to make good decisons for us or to guard our hearts and needs as tenderly as they would care for thier own. If we are not open and honest, then we do not trust our dominant.

Trust and honesty are interwoven from the same silken spider's web. They belong together and are never found one without the other within our kind of relationships. They're the proverbial two halves of the same coin.

It is hard to be honest, truly openly honest.
It is harder to know that the lack of being honest will keep one from the most deeply real relationship anyone could have. We all make choices about being honest each day - and within the embrace of a power-exchange relationship, we choose it almost minute-by-minute. This choosing thus reaffirms our place and constantly reassures us of the trust we have in our dominant, as well as thier trust in us.

Within a BDSM relationship, trust and honesty are different expressions of the same basic principle and need.

Shadow~

once again I find myself agreeing with the lot of posts befor me. You have brought up a very simple, yet very important part of this kind of relationship. Yes, trust and honesty are needed to keep any relationship alive, but one that is D/s, trust is SO important. If I did not trust my Master with my life, not just my heart or my soul, but everything, how could I kneel befor Him in true deference and humility? Knowing that I was safe and protected in His presence comes from trust and trust can not be gained without honesty.



lia

cym

(Trust and honesty are interwoven from the same silken spider's web. They belong together and are never found one without the other within our kind of relationships. They're the proverbial two halves of the same coin. )

A coin worth more than gold.

Eb...

...couldn't have said it better myself!

Well done!

li'a-wahine

It is so nice to see you join the conversation and explain your views on the trust and honesty subject.

Re: Re: Honesty and time

cymbidia said:

Yes.
We learn over time that our honesty is rewarded.
We learn to trust the solidity of the bond we have with our dominant because our honesty is rewarded.
We learn that we can only get/give what we need and want via the aupices of emotional honesty.

We begin by shielding our innermost self against hurt, against flame, against that which would do us harm - and so, we are not completely honest. We hold bits of ourselves in reserve, waiting to see if it's safe to open, to reveal, to be vunerable.

As time passes, we learn that the shielding is, in fact, unnecessary. More than unnecessary, it become cumbersome and problematic - and then it becomes an impediment to the very control and trust we crave.

If we are not open and honest, we are informing our dominant, in essence, that we cannot trust them to make good decisons for us or to guard our hearts and needs as tenderly as they would care for thier own. If we are not open and honest, then we do not trust our dominant.

Trust and honesty are interwoven from the same silken spider's web. They belong together and are never found one without the other within our kind of relationships. They're the proverbial two halves of the same coin.

It is hard to be honest, truly openly honest.
It is harder to know that the lack of being honest will keep one from the most deeply real relationship anyone could have. We all make choices about being honest each day - and within the embrace of a power-exchange relationship, we choose it almost minute-by-minute. This choosing thus reaffirms our place and constantly reassures us of the trust we have in our dominant, as well as thier trust in us.

Within a BDSM relationship, trust and honesty are different expressions of the same basic principle and need.

Click to expand...

Hear, hear, cym!

Eb

Shadow...

...I agree with Eb.

Trust is the foundation from which honesty roots itself.

Dr. B Evil

Welcome to the conversation and please feel free to jump in with both feet.

a feeble attempt

~~~~~It's difficult to be honest, completely honest, at all times. Speaking only for myself and past experiences, I was always afraid that those things I felt I needed to express honestly, would displease. Therefore, I spent a great deal of time saying and doing what I thought would please and to a point, I even had myself convinced that this was truth and honesty. Needless to say, because of this failing on my part, a myriad of things fell apart.

It's a thin line; difficult to walk when as a sub, your goal is to please and submit, and which has been more elequently stated by Cymbidia and Shadow.

If the Dom/me is not willing to encourage honest discourse, is egomaniacal per se, then the sub has no recourse but to be dishonest and fail all concerned.

Does this make any sense to anyone? I am not even sure it makes sense to me.......

Rose

Rose

It makes perfect sense...I am a firm believer (My opinion) that the Dominant lays the cornerstones of openess that allows the submissive to begin to trust by keeping a constant line of communication open.

It is work! An incredible amount of work! To prod and poke the vulnerability with care. To show the submissive that The Dominants goal is to create a masterpiece that allows them to be more than they ever dreamed rather than less than what they were.

It is also an incredible amount of work to think each moment before acting.

Re: a feeble attempt

A Desert Rose said:

[BIf the Dom/me is not willing to encourage honest discourse, is egomaniacal per se, then the sub has no recourse but to be dishonest and fail all concerned.

Does this make any sense to anyone? I am not even sure it makes sense to me.......

Rose [/B]

Click to expand...

It does to me Rose.


At the very beginning I think back to sissy, and our conversations when we first met. He is such a shy, intelligent, gentle man. He is also someone who has been hurt very deeply. And he is one of the most honest people I know. He was hesitant to tell me some things because he was afraid of being rejected, ridiculed or laughed at. I somehow, got him to talk and tell me what was on his mind. He told me, and he them looked for the psychic slap. but it never came. I know tha he and had a connection andI wanted him to know that he could tell me anything, and if it was told in truth, I would listen.

Hey, 1 1/2 years later I am still listening. It is not a love match, at least not in the conventional sense, in that he and I are not lovers, but he and I are closer that many who claim to be lovers.

But would we still be going strong if I had not encouraged him to open himself to me? Now when I allow him to look me in the eyes, I see such openness there, such trust, it makes me feel so good to know I am a part of his life.

Eb

Re: Re: a feeble attempt

Ebonyfire said:

It does to me Rose.


At the very beginning I think back to sissy, and our conversations when we first met. He is such a shy, intelligent, gentle man. He is also someone who has been hurt very deeply. And he is one of the most honest people I know. He was hesitant to tell me some things because he was afraid of being rejected, ridiculed or laughed at. I somehow, got him to talk and tell me what was on his mind. He told me, and he then looked for the psychic slap.

But it never came. I knew that he and I had a connection and I wanted him to know that he could tell me anything, and if it was told in truth, I would listen.

Hey, 1 1/2 years later I am still listening. It is not a love match, at least not in the conventional sense, in that he and I are not lovers, but he and I are closer that many who claim to be lovers.

But would we still be going strong if I had not encouraged him to open himself to me? Now when I allow him to look me in the eyes, I see such openness there, such trust, it makes me feel so good to know I am a part of his life.

Eb

Click to expand...

A Desert Rose said:

If the Dom/me is not willing to encourage honest discourse, is egomaniacal per se, then the sub has no recourse but to be dishonest and fail all concerned.

Click to expand...

~gently~ Darlin', if the dom/me isn't willing or capable of encouraging honesty between him/herself and you then you've got a nilla relationship playing at being BDSM, not a BDSM relationship.

The amount of focus and effort and acceptance and daily energy it takes to be honest, dom/me to sub and sub back to dom/me, is enormous. It's not something one can do on the weekend or when one is in the mood. It's not something, i believe, that one can do over vast distances for long periods of time.

If the dom/me doesn't make you and what you bring - your honesty - a priority in his/her life, then you're being cheated. If you stay, accepting the glitter of the kink instead the golden reality of a BDSM relationship, then you're contributing to the fraud of your reality.

If what you want is kinky sex and playing at being BDSM'ers, then so be it. There's nothing in the world wrong with that. Lots and lots and people do it every day and it makes them very happy.

If what you want, though, is the intensity of a fully realized BDSM power-exchange relationship, then it comes with a price - and that price is honesty. If you can't give it, if it isn't of value to you partner, if you aren't sure you're getting it, then you have to walk away. The relatinoship is not what you want, after all, and you'll never make each other happy.

From the inside of a strong power-exchange relationship, life is easy. One is loved and cared for. One is heard. One's needs are met. There are problems and issues and cares and concerns, yes, but they're dealt with as they arise - and then harmony is restored and the journey of intensity continues.

Real BDSM relationships are built entirely of honesty and trust.
Without those, and they are really the same thing, there is nothing of value that can exist.