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Old 05-09-2017, 09:45 PM   #1
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Rejected old school stylie

I learned to type on a brand new IBM Selectric, and Mrs Jones made sure we used 2 spaces after a period. Old habits die hard, but in 44 submissions by me, the 2 spaces always sailed through. I submitted number 45 and 46 within a day of each other, and 45 got bounced for 2 spaces but 46 didn't.
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Old 05-09-2017, 09:53 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astuffedshirt_perv View Post
I learned to type on a brand new IBM Selectric, and Mrs Jones made sure we used 2 spaces after a period. Old habits die hard, but in 44 submissions by me, the 2 spaces always sailed through. I submitted number 45 and 46 within a day of each other, and 45 got bounced for 2 spaces but 46 didn't.
I've written more than 2,000 stories of more than 10 million words and I always use two spaces after every sentence. None, not one of my stories were rejected for using two spaces.

Are you sure it was two spaces and not something else?

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Old 05-09-2017, 10:40 PM   #3
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Usually, if you copy and paste, the submission form will get rid of double spaces. I always use 2 after a sentence...I'm old school too. Why even in this post I use 2, but when you hit submit the process strips out the multiple spaces.
 

Old 05-09-2017, 11:15 PM   #4
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Once again, the two spaces rule only existed because of what the typewriter couldn't do. When the copy was converted to published material, it reverted to what printers could do (and computers now can do)--one space plus a bit more leading, not two spaces. It's no big deal if Literotica lets you publish with two extra spaces, but you're not being old school. The typewriter era didn't last that long. You're just being ignorant.
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Old 05-10-2017, 12:42 AM   #5
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Once again, the two spaces rule only existed because of what the typewriter couldn't do. When the copy was converted to published material, it reverted to what printers could do (and computers now can do)--one space plus a bit more leading, not two spaces. It's no big deal if Literotica lets you publish with two extra spaces, but you're not being old school. The typewriter era didn't last that long. You're just being ignorant.
Count me in among the ignorant and unschooled. I did not know this. This is one of the good things about hanging out at forums like this long enough.

I type all my stories with two spaces after periods and haven't had any problems with them getting submitted. Are you saying the preferred method is for authors to type only a single space? I think I would have a hard time making myself do that after so many years of doing the contrary.

I looked at my stories and the stories of some others and they didn't look obviously different to me when published online. If you submit stories with two spaces do they make some sort of adjustment?
 

Old 05-10-2017, 12:55 AM   #6
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HTML automatically strips out extra spaces, so whether you type 1, 2, or 4, there will only be one in the final posted submission. I still use two spaces, and my last two went through without issue.

It's motor memory, it doesn't affect anything, and I'm not going to waste time and effort changing something that's irrelevant.

Unless I see a rejection that says "Only one space should follow terminal punctuation" I'm inclined to believe the rejection was for something else. Rejecting stories based on something that's automatically corrected with zero intervention on anybody's part is a complete waste of time. I don't see Laurel creating busy work for herself.
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Old 05-10-2017, 01:10 AM   #7
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Are you saying the preferred method is for authors to type only a single space? I think I would have a hard time making myself do that after so many years of doing the contrary.
I'm saying that a Publisher's manuscript editor will make a find/replace pass that will reduce two spaces there to only one going into the composition process, yes.

I also noted that it probably doesn't make any difference for Literotica.

RR has suggested that the Literotica process will automatically make the adjustment and that you aren't seeing two spaces in what gets published to Literotica. I don't know whether that's true or not.

But the bottom line is that publishing never put two spaces after terminal punctuation--ever--that proper printing spacing was just something the typewriter couldn't do. Publishing always has put in one space with a bit extra leading, not a full another space. And that it has changed the spacing if a author submitted it with the two spaces--necessary with the typewriter but not necessary with computerized copy, which can handle the extra leading. Publishers just write off authors who submit computerized copy with the two spaces as uninformed about publishing.

I transitioned from two spaces on a typewriter to one on a computer without trouble. Those who say they can't just don't want to be savvy about publishing and aren't listening to the curse the publisher's manuscript editor makes by having to go through the extra find/replace to rectify the copy.
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Old 05-10-2017, 01:43 AM   #8
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I see a difference between "uninformed" and "Ignorant." "Uniformed" is just not knowing, which is neutral. "Ignorant" is not being bothered to adjust to doing it right for the medium even after being informed. Publishers' staffs do give more favorable response to authors who bother to learn to do it right for the medium rather than stubbornly going their own "not right" way. And this provides a slight edge in the publisher selection process.

But this probably doesn't matter much for submitting to Literotica.
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Old 05-10-2017, 02:21 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by sr71plt View Post
I transitioned from two spaces on a typewriter to one on a computer without trouble. Those who say they can't just don't want to be savvy about publishing and aren't listening to the curse the publisher's manuscript editor makes by having to go through the extra find/replace to rectify the copy.
Agree. It's not hard to reset muscle memory, takes a few days, is all.

If all else fails, "find" space space "replace" space is your friend. Along with all of the other "find stupid mistake" tricks you pick up along the way - I just run a set of standard find/replace searches to clean up copy. Easy stuff, and lifts your quality standards.
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Old 05-10-2017, 03:44 AM   #10
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Lit doesn't do anything to eliminate the spaces. HTML does that. Lit would have had to intervene, adding scripts to detect the two spaces and forcing them to render. The same applies to anything that appears on the internet.

If whatever you're typing is only going to appear online and not as an Ebook or in print, there's zero reason to change what you're used to and comfortable with.

I wouldn't be surprised if the programs that compile Ebooks do this as well.
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Old 05-10-2017, 07:55 AM   #11
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... The typewriter era didn't last that long. You're just being ignorant.
LOL No 100+ years is really not that long in the grand scheme of things. You're being an asshalf.
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Old 05-10-2017, 08:22 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sr71plt View Post
Once again, the two spaces rule only existed because of what the typewriter couldn't do. When the copy was converted to published material, it reverted to what printers could do (and computers now can do)--one space plus a bit more leading, not two spaces. It's no big deal if Literotica lets you publish with two extra spaces, but you're not being old school. The typewriter era didn't last that long. You're just being ignorant.
I fear there may be a 'timely' error here, pilot. The typing machine dates back to the 1860s so there's at least a century of type-writing.
Personally, I reckon that the space after a period depended, to a greater or lesser degree, upon what was being printed and in what fount, etc.. Furthermore, it wasn't that constant (there would be some dependence upon the lead slips available, perhaps ?).

And as you are undoubtedly aware, one can set up Word (and presumably other WPs) to ensure the space that you want after a period.
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Old 05-10-2017, 12:40 PM   #13
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I guess all of us that used typewriters since high school...let's see that was back in the '60s for me...are just dumbfucks. Thanks for bringing that to our attention pilot, I will endeavor to improve myself to be more of an asshat like you.
 

Old 05-10-2017, 12:49 PM   #14
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LOL No 100+ years is really not that long in the grand scheme of things. You're being an asshalf.
Printing of texts has been around since 1300. 100 years is a drop in the bucket to that. Thanks for being nasty, though--and showing that it's all about you.
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Old 05-10-2017, 12:49 PM   #15
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I don't wish to get caught up in a back and forth in which lots of words beginning in "ass" get used; I'm genuinely curious about this issue, and what the best thing to do is, going forward.

If one submits stories on this site in .rtf format with two spaces after periods, will that change the appearance of the document? That's how I have been doing it, and when I look at my stories next to those of other authors I don't see a difference in terms of spacing. So I assume either a human or some software is making the appropriate adjustment. Is that correct?

Does submitting stories in such format with only one space after the period eliminate effort by someone at some point? Is that the better way to do it?

I'm sure I can retrain my fingers to eliminate an unnecessary space if that streamlines the process as a whole.

I know this is a theme that kind of gets beaten into the ground around here, but it would be helpful to have a more comprehensive set of instructions, guidelines, and preferred conventions regarding the submission of stories in one place, so an author doesn't have to piece them together from various sources.
 

Old 05-10-2017, 12:52 PM   #16
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It's a matter of seeing your slice of publishing as a combined effort or as "It's all about me." The "It's all about me" authors in publishing better zip to best-seller real fast if they don't want to obtain a bad, self-centered reputation when they are trying to get someone else to publish them. Stubbornly sticking to a temporary, obsolete practice when you've been informed of the how and why to change it is just arrogant "it's all about me" activity.
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Old 05-10-2017, 12:57 PM   #17
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If one submits stories on this site in .rtf format with two spaces after periods, will that change the appearance of the document? That's how I have been doing it, and when I look at my stories next to those of other authors I don't see a difference in terms of spacing. So I assume either a human or some software is making the appropriate adjustment. Is that correct?
RR, who is lips and teeth with the Web site administration on technical issues, says that the system corrects for it, and that seems to take care of it for Literotica. It's no big deal with other publishers either--a find/replace doesn't take much effort. The real point is that it reveals an attitude of letting someone else deal with a practice that is not correct in submissions and that is easily corrected with just a little effort. We've been in the computer age for thirty years now. It reveals those not willing to put out a little effort to get it right.
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Old 05-10-2017, 01:00 PM   #18
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It's a matter of seeing your slice of publishing as a combined effort or as "It's all about me." The "It's all about me" authors in publishing better zip to best-seller real fast if they don't want to obtain a bad, self-centered reputation when they are trying to get someone else to publish them. Stubbornly sticking to a temporary, obsolete practice when you've been informed of the how and why to change it is just arrogant "it's all about me" activity.
I see publication as a collaborative process, and I do not object at all to changing how I do things so the publication of my stories can occur with the least effort for everyone involved.

It would be nice to have clearer guidelines. This thing about two spaces, for example, is not (unless I'm mistaken) contained in any written guidelines here on this site. My practice in writing on the typewriter and then the keyboard always has been to insert two spaces after a period. In fact, I'm doing it right now as a matter of habit.
 

Old 05-10-2017, 01:20 PM   #19
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It would be nice to have clearer guidelines. This thing about two spaces, for example, is not (unless I'm mistaken) contained in any written guidelines here on this site. My practice in writing on the typewriter and then the keyboard always has been to insert two spaces after a period. In fact, I'm doing it right now as a matter of habit.
Probably a combination of it not being a significant issue, especially if, as RR suggests, the system here automatically adjusts for it and of having been so obsolete as a necessity (the computer handles it correctly with just one space given) for over three decades.

If you are interested in checking on the several false--and now long obsolete--limitations the typewriter forced in publishing that no longer apply in publishing (and never did in actual printing), you might run down Robin Williams (no, not that Robin Williams) The PC Is Not a Typewriter (https://www.amazon.com/Pc-not-typewr...t+a+typewriter) (or the companion The MAC Is Not a Typewriter).

It's not a big issue in itself; it's mainly a signal to those in publishing how much of a joy it's going to be working with an author--and can make a difference when there's a large choice of authors to work with (which there almost always is). And it's quite revealing of posters in the forum when these discussion come up.
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Old 05-10-2017, 07:44 PM   #20
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Printing of texts has been around since 1300. 100 years is a drop in the bucket to that. Thanks for being nasty, though--and showing that it's all about you.
And thank YOU for using the most popular pre-teen, 'this'll make me look smart" catch phrase. Even though it really wasn't relevant to what I said.

But back on point,...

1300 to 1650 is 350 yrs that the printing press, I assume you were talking about the screw type of movable type presses as the Gutenburg wasn't invented until 1440 and neither was readily available until into the 1500s. That's a pretty big drop in the bucket.

I think you might need a barrel for that drop.
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Old 05-10-2017, 07:51 PM   #21
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And thank YOU for using the most popular pre-teen, 'this'll make me look smart" catch phrase. Even though it really wasn't relevant to what I said.

But back on point,...

1300 to 1650 is 350 yrs that the printing press, I assume you were talking about the screw type of movable type presses as the Gutenburg wasn't invented until 1440 and neither was readily available until into the 1500s. That's a pretty big drop in the bucket.

I think you might need a barrel for that drop.
Your combative attitude is noted.
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Old 05-10-2017, 08:20 PM   #22
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You started it. Calling the OP ignorant for a fair and honest question.
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Old 05-10-2017, 09:00 PM   #23
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1300? Whaaaaaat?

Not to poke fun at you ghost people, but honestly, Chinese were printing way earlier. Like 200 AD or thereabouts. The earliest known printed book is also Chinese, from the end of the T'ang dynasty. Printed on 11 May 868 by Wang Chieh if you need a little more precision and its apparently of a high standard, so it must have had quite a few predecessors. You latecomers to printing technology .... sigh....
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Old 05-10-2017, 09:03 PM   #24
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An entire story file submitted the same way over years...no issue

Two stories submitted same time in an identical manner...one rejected, one accepted.

More of the 'screening' process in action.

Simply resubmit the rejected one with no changes whatsoever and odds are it goes through. The site boots a few stories a week for a variety of reasons to make it look like it actually does something.
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Old 05-10-2017, 09:40 PM   #25
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1300? Whaaaaaat?

Not to poke fun at you ghost people, but honestly, Chinese were printing way earlier. Like 200 AD or thereabouts. The earliest known printed book is also Chinese, from the end of the T'ang dynasty. Printed on 11 May 868 by Wang Chieh if you need a little more precision and its apparently of a high standard, so it must have had quite a few predecessors. You latecomers to printing technology .... sigh....
I just grabbed that date off a Web site discussing text printing. The salient point is different, though. It doesn't matter how long the typewriter was the standard device for preparing copy. What matters is that it hasn't been the standard for over three decades, with the advent of the computer age. Unless you are some quirky recluse best-selling author, you're going to be interacting with publishing with a computer, not a typewriter, so the limitations of the typewriter are no longer relevant.
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