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Old 04-08-2014, 05:16 AM   #1
itastorywriter
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Question How to begin...

Hi all, I'm a new author, or at least I can say that since they published my first tale a couple of days ago. I read literotica since my university days - was it 2002? 2003? - but I never actually joined as a member until recently. Moreover, I never wrote anything until last year.

English is not my native language: I began studying it when I was 17 and I'm mostly self-taught. I use it in my job on a regular basis tough.

Well, after this brief introduction I'm getting to the point. In this past year I wrote a couple of stories, 5-6 complete ones and some WIP, and I noticed something with my English, something others seems to cope with better then me: Sinc eI try to write my stories from a personal point-of-view of one of the charachters (or alternating both of them) but in third-person, most of my sentences begins with "She", "He", "HisName","HerName", His","Her".

When I re-read my stories, sometimes it feels really awkward to see all these pronoums at the beinning of each paragraph.

Now the problems is that in my native language, the verbs are conjugated for each person and so it's possible to write entire sentences without the subject, because it's implied by the meaning. In english, that doesn't usually work like that :/

So... what to do? Of course there are adverbs that help, but even with them my sentences tends to become like

"Meanwhile, she did..."

just moving the subject a word after

Anyone faces this problem? Maybe someone whose native language is conjugated like mine?

Thanks
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Old 04-08-2014, 05:34 AM   #2
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H.L.Mencken recommended that new writers burn their first 100 stories, because it takes around 100 efforts to learn the ropes.
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Old 04-08-2014, 05:41 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAMESBJOHNSON View Post
H.L.Mencken recommended that new writers burn their first 100 stories, because it takes around 100 efforts to learn the ropes.
Well, I don't agree with H.L.Mencken.

In my humble opinion, when you do arts (playing, writing, dancing and so on) there is no limiti in improving.

Every good "performer" will never be satisfied with his own work. That's a simple rule so, if you burn your first 100 stories (of course because you think you "didn't learn the ropes yet") you'll then burn the second 100, the third 100 and so on. Only if you are a good performer of course, otherwise you'll be satisfied and you'll simply never improve (I'm speaking of myself now, but not as a writer of course. I have experience in other arts).

But the point of this post is helping me to improve indeed. Wasting 100 stories is not gonna help. Yes, maybe I could understand by myself why I write like that, in time...but there's a community on literotica, why not asking for help?

I'm sure every writer out there has similar problems. Hearing your experience should help me wasting only 10 or 50 stories.

It could be nice, right?
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Old 04-08-2014, 06:05 AM   #4
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"The first draft of anything is a pile of shit."

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Old 04-08-2014, 06:39 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StrangeLife View Post
"The first draft of anything is a pile of shit."

Mark Twain
Who said it was a first draft? I edit my stories at least 10 times before even thinking they are readable.

You. Yes I'm talking to you, the next literotica user that is going to post some famous author quote without providing any actual help or smart consideration, stop right now and do not. I can find qoutes on wikipedia too
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Old 04-08-2014, 06:53 AM   #6
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Just tell the story.

In both first and third person, it's about telling the story. There are many ways to tell the story, just as there are many ways to start a sentence or construct a sentence.

I was watching her from a distance. She was beautiful.

Watching her from a distance, I found myself enthralled by her beauty.

Simply a matter of telling what you did and saw in a different way.

Good luck and welcome to the AH.

And ignore any post you get from JBJ.
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Old 04-08-2014, 07:11 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itastorywriter View Post
Well, I don't agree with H.L.Mencken.

In my humble opinion, when you do arts (playing, writing, dancing and so on) there is no limiti in improving.

Every good "performer" will never be satisfied with his own work. That's a simple rule so, if you burn your first 100 stories (of course because you think you "didn't learn the ropes yet") you'll then burn the second 100, the third 100 and so on. Only if you are a good performer of course, otherwise you'll be satisfied and you'll simply never improve (I'm speaking of myself now, but not as a writer of course. I have experience in other arts).

But the point of this post is helping me to improve indeed. Wasting 100 stories is not gonna help. Yes, maybe I could understand by myself why I write like that, in time...but there's a community on literotica, why not asking for help?

I'm sure every writer out there has similar problems. Hearing your experience should help me wasting only 10 or 50 stories.

It could be nice, right?
Few people profit from vicarious experience or prescription, writers least of all. Every noob I ever met comes here for applause and a victory lap. And plenty of the Old Hands here would make more money selling pencils on the corner.
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Old 04-08-2014, 07:49 AM   #8
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What is your native language? Your English is good.

Welcome to the AH, where everything turns into an argument.
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Old 04-08-2014, 07:53 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAMESBJOHNSON View Post
Few people profit from vicarious experience or prescription, writers least of all. Every noob I ever met comes here for applause and a victory lap. And plenty of the Old Hands here would make more money selling pencils on the corner.
That's not true. I came here because there wasn't enough drama in my real life.
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Old 04-08-2014, 07:55 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patientlee View Post
What is your native language? Your English is good.

Welcome to the AH, where everything turns into an argument.
QUARREL is the word.
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Old 04-08-2014, 08:16 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeb_Carter View Post
Just tell the story.

In both first and third person, it's about telling the story. There are many ways to tell the story, just as there are many ways to start a sentence or construct a sentence.

I was watching her from a distance. She was beautiful.

Watching her from a distance, I found myself enthralled by her beauty.

Simply a matter of telling what you did and saw in a different way.

Good luck and welcome to the AH.

And ignore any post you get from JBJ.
Well, that's helpful, but in the end just changes "She" to "Her". Itried using different words like
"She"
"The woman"
"The blond girl"
"the smart man"
and so on...but it gest boring the same . Actually, I also think it's not good for the third-person subjective view I'm trying to get in most of my tales.
I think something like "the blonde woman" is more third-person objective, but I'm not sure of course since it's difficult to understand those slight shades in a language that is not mine.

Then of course every time I read a nice story I think "Wow, I get it! I have to do 'this' and 'that'"!. But when it comes to writing...it's a complete different world

Quote:
Originally Posted by patientlee View Post
What is your native language? Your English is good.
Welcome to the AH, where everything turns into an argument.
I'm italian, thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAMESBJOHNSON View Post
QUARREL is the word.
Well, quarreling it's nice. As someone once told (no, I didn't find the quote on wikipedia) "the best way to win an argument is by losing it. Because the loser is the one that actually acquires knowledge in the end"
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Old 04-08-2014, 08:19 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itastorywriter View Post
Well, that's helpful, but in the end just changes "She" to "Her". Itried using different words like
"She"
"The woman"
"The blond girl"
"the smart man"
and so on...but it gest boring the same . Actually, I also think it's not good for the third-person subjective view I'm trying to get in most of my tales.
I think something like "the blonde woman" is more third-person objective, but I'm not sure of course since it's difficult to understand those slight shades in a language that is not mine.

Then of course every time I read a nice story I think "Wow, I get it! I have to do 'this' and 'that'"!. But when it comes to writing...it's a complete different world



I'm italian, thank you.



Well, quarreling it's nice. As someone once told (no, I didn't find the quote on wikipedia) "the best way to win an argument is by losing it. Because the loser is the one that actually acquires knowledge in the end"
Quarrels and arguments are different animals, invest in a dictionary.
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Old 04-08-2014, 08:25 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAMESBJOHNSON View Post
Quarrels and arguments are different animals, invest in a dictionary.
Well, I have to agree with that. But still, if others are quarreling and I'm just having an argument, I could be the one getting benefits from it.

Sorry for the OT, let's get back in topic if we manage to
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Old 04-08-2014, 08:30 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itastorywriter View Post
Well, I have to agree with that. But still, if others are quarreling and I'm just having an argument, I could be the one getting benefits from it.

Sorry for the OT, let's get back in topic if we manage to
If youd organize your thinking before you post you wouldn't invite digressions then discount what you get.
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Old 04-08-2014, 08:45 AM   #15
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If youd organize your thinking before you post you wouldn't invite digressions then discount what you get.
Ok, I get it, you got to 40.000+ messages trolling in threds where you don't have anything better to say. I'm going to follow Zeb_Carter's suggestion: have a nice time somewhere else.
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Old 04-08-2014, 08:56 AM   #16
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Ok, I get it, you got to 40.000+ messages trolling in threds where you don't have anything better to say. I'm going to follow Zeb_Carter's suggestion: have a nice time somewhere else.
I haven't trolled yet but I plan to starting soon. Youll know when I do.
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Old 04-08-2014, 09:07 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itastorywriter View Post
Hi all, I'm a new author, or at least I can say that since they published my first tale a couple of days ago. I read literotica since my university days - was it 2002? 2003? - but I never actually joined as a member until recently. Moreover, I never wrote anything until last year.

English is not my native language: I began studying it when I was 17 and I'm mostly self-taught. I use it in my job on a regular basis tough.

Well, after this brief introduction I'm getting to the point. In this past year I wrote a couple of stories, 5-6 complete ones and some WIP, and I noticed something with my English, something others seems to cope with better then me: Sinc eI try to write my stories from a personal point-of-view of one of the charachters (or alternating both of them) but in third-person, most of my sentences begins with "She", "He", "HisName","HerName", His","Her".

When I re-read my stories, sometimes it feels really awkward to see all these pronoums at the beinning of each paragraph.

Now the problems is that in my native language, the verbs are conjugated for each person and so it's possible to write entire sentences without the subject, because it's implied by the meaning. In english, that doesn't usually work like that :/

So... what to do? Of course there are adverbs that help, but even with them my sentences tends to become like

"Meanwhile, she did..."

just moving the subject a word after

Anyone faces this problem? Maybe someone whose native language is conjugated like mine?

Thanks
Disclaimer: I've never posted any stories on Lit. I tend to write flash fiction, stories much too short for Lit's 700 word minimum.

I have the same problem with the stories that I write, whether first person or third person.


I suggest that you check out other author's third-person stories, to see how they handle the problem.
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Old 04-08-2014, 09:25 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Zeb_Carter View Post
Just tell the story.

In both first and third person, it's about telling the story. There are many ways to tell the story, just as there are many ways to start a sentence or construct a sentence.
I'm new here too but an avid reader, so far. Must agree, in part, with Zeb_Carter but from my previous technical writing and editing experience, get two people who are willing to critisise and edit your work. Authors can't edit their own text as they don't read the words liker a first time reader. They can't see the wood for the trees.

Get thy self an editor, or two. But don't let your English stop you from writing, please!

I have been an unregistered reader for years and love these writings.
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Old 04-08-2014, 09:33 AM   #19
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Who said it was a first draft? I edit my stories at least 10 times before even thinking they are readable.

You. Yes I'm talking to you, the next literotica user that is going to post some famous author quote without providing any actual help or smart consideration, stop right now and do not. I can find qoutes on wikipedia too
Actually I found it in a book "No Plot? No Problem! - A Low-Stress, High-Velocity Guide To Writing a Novel in 30 Days." by Chris Baty, also known as one of the original writers behind NaNoWriMo. Yep - a book. You know, them thar paper thingies people used to read before Al Gore invented the Internet...

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Old 04-08-2014, 09:36 AM   #20
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I'm new here too but an avid reader, so far. Must agree, in part, with Zeb_Carter but from my previous technical writing and editing experience, get two people who are willing to critisise and edit your work. Authors can't edit their own text as they don't read the words liker a first time reader. They can't see the wood for the trees.

Get thy self an editor, or two. But don't let your English stop you from writing, please!

I have been an unregistered reader for years and love these writings.
Well, the problem is...I had (until now) a very BAD experience with editors.
I applied in the editors program and, in order

- the first told me she'd do it in a month. She never came back, never even answered my emails afterwards.
- the second did exactly the same.
- the third too.
- the fourth began editing my tale and then disappeared after two chapters. He wrote me after a coupld of MONTHS saying he lost everything he had on the PC, and to send it to him again. I did, he disappeared again.

Now, of course I'm not paying for an editor so I should not expect a professional-in-time-job, but if you offer to be an editor then be consinstent with your choice. If you give a deadline, respect it. If you can't respectit, give a second deadline to the author. Help, edit, always keep your author posted! Moreover, even in the worst case, when you really really can't edit the tale - maybe it's so bad you lose interest in it - just TELL it to the author. He'll learn something from it and go looking for someone else.

No, they just disappear. So in the end, I edited and edited the stories by myself and with the help of some friend (not native-english too tough).
But of course the job has a different quality, I understand, and you got a point saying I can't see the wood for the trees. That' natural.

I would really really like to find a serious editor out there...but I lost hope long ago. Maybe I'm asking too much? An editor that can cope with my English and can guide me in improving the way I write...

That's a BIG OT tough, and I better keep it for another thread in the editors section
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Old 04-08-2014, 10:05 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by itastorywriter View Post
Well, the problem is...I had (until now) a very BAD experience with editors.
I applied in the editors program and, in order

- the first told me she'd do it in a month. She never came back, never even answered my emails afterwards.
- the second did exactly the same.
- the third too.
- the fourth began editing my tale and then disappeared after two chapters. He wrote me after a coupld of MONTHS saying he lost everything he had on the PC, and to send it to him again. I did, he disappeared again.

Now, of course I'm not paying for an editor so I should not expect a professional-in-time-job, but if you offer to be an editor then be consinstent with your choice. If you give a deadline, respect it. If you can't respectit, give a second deadline to the author. Help, edit, always keep your author posted! Moreover, even in the worst case, when you really really can't edit the tale - maybe it's so bad you lose interest in it - just TELL it to the author. He'll learn something from it and go looking for someone else.

No, they just disappear. So in the end, I edited and edited the stories by myself and with the help of some friend (not native-english too tough).
But of course the job has a different quality, I understand, and you got a point saying I can't see the wood for the trees. That' natural.

I would really really like to find a serious editor out there...but I lost hope long ago. Maybe I'm asking too much? An editor that can cope with my English and can guide me in improving the way I write...

That's a BIG OT tough, and I better keep it for another thread in the editors section
Most writers want trophies, backpats, and victory laps. Honest editors invite abuse from writers. When noobs grow up they'll be ready for serious help. Otherwise fuck them.
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Old 04-08-2014, 10:19 AM   #22
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Just as a side note, JBJ is pretty much a noob himself. Before that, he was just a troll. He's well read but just beginning to write. Take him with a grain of salt and a dose of aspirin. If that doesn't work, there is always the ignore feature. It can be your friend.
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Old 04-08-2014, 10:22 AM   #23
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Just as a side note, JBJ is pretty much a noob himself. Before that, he was just a troll. He's well read but just beginning to write. Take him with a grain of salt and a dose of aspirin. If that doesn't work, there is always the ignore feature. It can be your friend.
^^^^And take TEX to the dumpster.
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Old 04-08-2014, 10:24 AM   #24
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^^^^And take TEX to the dumpster.
Yeah, that about says it all right there.

Now back to our regularly scheduled thread, already in progress.
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Old 04-08-2014, 10:51 AM   #25
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Yeah, that about says it all right there.

Now back to our regularly scheduled thread, already in progress.
^^^^50 SHADES OF GAY author.
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