Is seeing a "sexual activity"?

Moderators pulled a previously posted story of mine (>100k views and posted over a year ago) a few weeks ago, and then last week, after making very minor clarifications on age, they rejected again for underage. There is no underage sex in the story. Zero. I checked and rechecked. Had an editor do the same.

But now I'm thinking: is seeing genitalia a sexual activity? During a flashback in my story (three young kids, small house, one bathroom), a minor sister barges into a bathroom and accidentally sees her minor brother's privates. It becomes a topic of discussion between Mother and three children after the incident. There is no sexual contact and no arousal. In fact, tonally the incident is treated with humor.

Submission guidelines say the following: "No sexual activity involving...underage persons will be considered. For the purposes of this site, the minimum legal age is 18." (Omission related to bestiality is mine).

Is my flashback scene the problem?

Seeing is a sexual activity?

Thanks,

FS

Yes, voyeurism is a sexual activity. And if you have underage children doing it in your story you're going for underage. Why else have you included it?

Seeing definitely is sexual activity. Think about the Exhibitionist and Voyeur category. In many of those stories there is no sexual activity in the sense of touching; it's all about looking. But if you wrote a story about an adult voyeur and a minor exhibitionist, or vice versa, there's no doubt it would fail this site's underage test.

You can relate in passing and in very general terms something that happened to an underage person (i.e., "I lost my virginity at the age of 16") but you can't describe it in any detail so that it presents an issue whether the person's age is an erotic factor in that portion of the narrative. Your example does not pass that test.

RubenR said:

In which category was the story placed? I can imagine it makes a difference whether it was placed in Romance or, for example, Incest & Taboo; readers probably have different expectations and associations with such details.

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Posted in I/T. The sex does not occur until the characters are at least 19 YO.

SimonDoom said:

Seeing definitely is sexual activity. Think about the Exhibitionist and Voyeur category. In many of those stories there is no sexual activity in the sense of touching; it's all about looking. But if you wrote a story about an adult voyeur and a minor exhibitionist, or vice versa, there's no doubt it would fail this site's underage test.

You can relate in passing and in very general terms something that happened to an underage person (i.e., "I lost my virginity at the age of 16") but you can't describe it in any detail so that it presents an issue whether the person's age is an erotic factor in that portion of the narrative. Your example does not pass that test.

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Thanks for your thoughts on this. I see your point, but I would pose that seeing may be sexual when combined with arousal. Not at all the case in my story.

Is it possible that, for legal purposes, seeing a minor's privates--even accidentally and with no arousal--automatically flags the story?

FS

We get this twice a week on the discussion board and the users have nothing to do with selection criteria. The sole submissions editor (and one of the site owners) is the only one who can sort this out with you. It's Laurel. You can contact her by Private Message (PM), the messaging system activated at the top right corner of this page. Beyond that you're spinning your wheels.

fsqueeze said:

Thanks for your thoughts on this. I see your point, but I would pose that seeing may be sexual when combined with arousal. Not at all the case in my story.

Is it possible that, for legal purposes, seeing a minor's privates--even accidentally and with no arousal--automatically flags the story?

FS

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It's not a matter of legality. It's what Laurel will permit.

I think the test is this: if it's reasonable to suppose that, regardless what your intentions are, a reader might see your description of the incident involving a minor as erotic, then it probably fails the test. If you describe at any level of detail somebody looking at a minor's privates it's going to fail this test.

fsqueeze said:

Thanks for your thoughts on this. I see your point, but I would pose that seeing may be sexual when combined with arousal. Not at all the case in my story.

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It may also depend on how the event(s) are described. If there's any detail at all then I'd expect it to be rejected. You said that the minor girl walked in on her brother, and the mother discussed it, which sounds like you've probably described things.

You guys are awesome. Thanks for the feedback.

To follow up: the actual "seeing" scene is done in a sentence, maybe two. In the moment, there is no description beyond "saw his penis." The purpose of the scene was to show the inconvenient level of intimacy in the house and how the single mother responded to her children beginning to understand their physical differences.

Again, many thanks for the input. I apologize if I've posted on an exhausted topic.

-FS

I'm pretty sure stories have been bounced for similar reasons in the past. A scene that might be considered acceptable and non-sexual in mainstream fiction may be problematic here, because readers are more likely to see it as sexually intended.

Here’s what I have learned talking with other writers on this site, and barring the underage element you are mentioning: As a storyteller, which you are, you can and probably should avoid “flashback” scenes. They are confusing to the reader. Tell the story. If you have to use a flashback, you probably should’ve started the story at that point. I mean, you obviously think it’s relevant to the story.

I’m guilty of bringing stuff up in dialogue, but if it isn’t relevant to the story, leave it out of the story.

Now, as far as underage goes, it’s wasted time here on this site. This isn’t our sandbox. Someone else is allowing us to post stories on “their” site. They have rules. Those that follow the rules have no issues. Those that can’t try to point it out and fail. Underage is just that - underage.

My suggestion, leave out the flashback, tell a good story. It can be done.

Kant

Another point of note here. How you are describing the scene “saw his penis” is way out in left field to be flagged for rejection.
Had you worded it, say like, so and so walked in and seen him doing it. Doing what? You know, doing it.
The reader is going to identify that as either some one was having sex or jerking off.

Chances are, that type of vagueness wouldn’t necessarily be flagged because “it” can mean and imply an infinite number of things.

Just a suggestion. It might work, might not.
Kant

It seems a very insignificant part of the story. Why not just delete it, apologize and resubmit the edit with a note explaining that? Live and learn, eh

I’m sure it’s because they fucked later. Two related juveniles seeing each other in the buff, mentioning it in passing, and going on with separate lives? That’s nothing.

Two related juveniles seeing each other in the buff and then fucking ten years later? That’s foreplay.

If naked kids are essential to your story, this is not the place for you. Laurel keeps more than an arm's lenght away from anything bordering underage. And many of us posting here are grateful for this. I wouldn't post here in a million years if there was a risk my stories were posted next to pedophilia. I much prefer the overly cautious strategy. Thanks Laurel!

A lot of this comes down to commonsense and applying the 'reasonable person' test - i.e. - would a reasonable person see the story as writing or attempting to write underage erotica?

For example, in one of my story series the male narrator Sean recounts how as a kid he had a crush on his best friend's older sister Zoe. I describe how when Sean visited the house in childhood he would annoy Zoe by following her around and asking her dumb questions such as 'Do you like stuff?'. He could never work out why Zoe - who is undergoing an intense tennis training program to become an international champion in the sport and who isn't a particularly warm or friendly person anyway - is not at all interested in his clumsy attempts to be friends.

These scenes are perfectly okay, because it is obvious they are written to be humorous and clearly not sexual. If I had included any sexual thoughts or actions by the under 18 Sean in regards to also under 18 Zoe in these flashback scenes it would not have been okay.

At Literotica, it all boils down to "will Laurel, the sole submissions editor" pass this? No more, no less. And that, which is natural with humans, can be a sliding scale from day to day.