Serious question to men?

Serious question to Doms

Why do you feel the need to try and dominate a Domme?

Has this happened in your experience?

It's a common enough complaint.

I think a lot of men have trouble taking women seriously, or believe that all women are -actually- submissive if they (the men) are "man enough."

Cybermiss said:

Why do you feel the need to try and dominate a Domme?

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While this reads somewhat rhetorical, my answer to this question falls some where here: 60% of the time it reflects incompetence - which manifests in a lot of ways - faking it , not knowing what they are doing, and so on. My sense is that this incompetence is matched by a very male defining mantra of "owning the moment". So - you could see how someone who doesn't know what the hell he is doing ends up trying to dominate. The other 40% of the time I think it is probably malicious. This would fall under - "she just needs the right guy (read me)" to come along. It is selfish and appeals to the worst kind of men.

Why do you feel the need to stereotype my entire sex demographic as domineering cavemen?

~ ~ ~

Ok I should be more nuanced.

I would guess that expectation for female submissiveness that you're talking about is primarily an ingrained social-hierarchy-thing leftover from our ape-ish ancestors.

It's really stupid to presume that attitude is held by 'men' in general. I would put the frequency of it at a reasonable minority.

Cybermiss said:

Why do you feel the need to try and dominate a Domme?

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Why would your sexual preferences be my problem?

Cybermiss said:

Why do you feel the need to try and dominate a Domme?

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I don't.

My personal feelingss on the subject:
Mmm, let me explain a bit. There are a few things that are going on here.
1) I feel the urge to play a sexual dominant role
2) I don't mind to not do kinky stuff if the girl is not into it.
3) I also don't mind submitting sometimes (I'm a switch kinda)
3) But while I can be a dom without ever playing a sub role, I would feel extremely unfulfilled if I was offered to go the other way - be only a sub and never dominate.

Now, I didn't encounter in my life a woman whom I was attracted to and who was a dominant at the same time. On forums, I find myself not attracted to that type of girls very much at all, so maybe I'm just not attracted to dominant women in general.

However if I try to imagine a situation when I'm attracted to a girl, have feelings for her, but she's strictly dominant - that would be an issue for me. I honestly don't think such relationship would work very well, but if I was really head over heels in love with her - I guess I would try to reach some consensus - either switching roles or forgoing kink all together.
So this is pretty much the only scenario I can imagine myself trying to dominate a domme.

My feelings in general:
Now I know that what I'm going to say next will trigger people, but that's what I think so to hell with it.
I believe that there are more submissive women than there are dominant ones. And I also believe that there are more dominant men than submissive ones.
Reasons for that are in our brain chemistry as well as social standards that we are subjected from early childhood (from the nature's "cavemen" point of view, at least - I'm well aware that it's fer from being true in modern society).
Psychologically, women are more emotional than men. That's how evolution made them. They need to keep connections and keep their men around, because women are weaker physically, and also need support while they are pregnant and in the first months they are with a child.
Men are more independent and stronger physically. They do not experience periods of vulnerability in life.
In a way, humans as a species have developed with the notion that men need to take care of women, while women need to interest men in taking care of them. That's why men subconsciously want to take positions of strength and power, to be caretakers and protectors. Women, at the same time, want a position of being protected, being sure in the future and having someone to rely on. (again, not true nowadays, but bear with me)

Back to sociology, our society teaches kids basically just that. Parents tell boys that they need to take care of girls, protect and support them while being as strong and reliable as possible themselves. Parents tell girls that they need to find a good man who will love her and treat her well and protect her, who will be a good husband and parent.

All of the above, of course, is not a golden standard. Humans are too complex and diverse to be all alike in that respect. But do remember that 100-150 years ago women were still largely submissive and considered inferior to men in many respects. Things like that stick for generations.

This all gives birth to a common misconception: Most women want to be dominated or can be taught to be submissive under right circumstances.
Whether it's true or not is a topic for a whole different discussion, probably.

But the bottomline is that many not-very-smart men think that Domminant or independent women are just in need of a good stud who can show them the right way, and that they are in fact submissive deep down.

Let me rephrase my question. My question was too encompassing.

Why a good share of Doms always feel the need to dominate a Domme?

Yes it happens to me all the time and they get pissy when I tell them I am not, not do I want to be submissive..

Just trying to understand. If a man tells me he's a Dom i will immediately and politely tell them I am not submissive. In a great number of cases the battle will commence. I usually will ignore the battle cry.

Cybermiss said:

Let me rephrase my question. My question was too encompassing.

Why a good share of Doms always feel the need to dominate a Domme?

Yes it happens to me all the time and they get pissy when I tell them I am not, not do I want to be submissive..

Just trying to understand. If a man tells me he's a Dom i will immediately and politely tell them I am not submissive. In a great number of cases the battle will commence. I usually will ignore the battle cry.

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I'm caught here wondering why you would feel the need to tell someone that you are not submissive and then think the man you just told that to is somehow overbearing. Frankly it boggles the mind that you would think that someone wouldn't accept the challenge.

It IS a challenge whether you intended it to be one or not. Because the statement you make isn't that you aren't a submissive, it's a challenge of "who is more dominant, me or you"?

And you don't get this? At all?

I feel the need here to explain that perhaps you should consider expanding your understanding of basic human instincts. And maybe develop a method of informing others that you are not interested in them without challenging them to a duel over mastery.

HisArpy said:

I'm caught here wondering why you would feel the need to tell someone that you are not submissive and then think the man you just told that to is somehow overbearing. Frankly it boggles the mind that you would think that someone wouldn't accept the challenge.

It IS a challenge whether you intended it to be one or not. Because the statement you make isn't that you aren't a submissive, it's a challenge of "who is more dominant, me or you"?

And you don't get this? At all?

I feel the need here to explain that perhaps you should consider expanding your understanding of basic human instincts. And maybe develop a method of informing others that you are not interested in them without challenging them to a duel over mastery.

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Women often times have to change their wording to keep keep from hurting/challenging men in the workplace. Apparently, this extends here as well.

I have no idea how "I'm not submissive," equates to challenging someone to a dual. I'd think anyone that sees that as a challenge needs to check their insecurities.

MeekMe said:

Women often times have to change their wording to keep keep from hurting/challenging men in the workplace. Apparently, this extends here as well.

I have no idea how "I'm not submissive," equates to challenging someone to a dual. I'd think anyone that sees that as a challenge needs to check their insecurities.

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Totally this. OMG.

HisArpy said:

I'm caught here wondering why you would feel the need to tell someone that you are not submissive and then think the man you just told that to is somehow overbearing. Frankly it boggles the mind that you would think that someone wouldn't accept the challenge.

It IS a challenge whether you intended it to be one or not. Because the statement you make isn't that you aren't a submissive, it's a challenge of "who is more dominant, me or you"?

And you don't get this? At all?

I feel the need here to explain that perhaps you should consider expanding your understanding of basic human instincts. And maybe develop a method of informing others that you are not interested in them without challenging them to a duel over mastery.

Click to expand...

MeekMe said:

Women often times have to change their wording to keep keep from hurting/challenging men in the workplace. Apparently, this extends here as well.

I have no idea how "I'm not submissive," equates to challenging someone to a dual. I'd think anyone that sees that as a challenge needs to check their insecurities.

Click to expand...

cascadiabound said:

Totally this. OMG.

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Yes.
*swoons over Meek*

Cybermiss said:

Why do you feel the need to try and dominate a Domme?

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I'll answer this first question.
As a female. Not a Dom male.

As I see it.

Misogyny.
Insecurity.
Ego.

HisArpy said:

I'm caught here wondering why you would feel the need to tell someone that you are not submissive and then think the man you just told that to is somehow overbearing. Frankly it boggles the mind that you would think that someone wouldn't accept the challenge.

It IS a challenge whether you intended it to be one or not. Because the statement you make isn't that you aren't a submissive, it's a challenge of "who is more dominant, me or you"?

And you don't get this? At all?

I feel the need here to explain that perhaps you should consider expanding your understanding of basic human instincts. And maybe develop a method of informing others that you are not interested in them without challenging them to a duel over mastery.

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Oh my god what

Cybermiss said:

Why do you feel the need to try and dominate a Domme?

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I generally don't. If Doms and Dommes are on top and submissives are on the bottom, it doesn't make sense to me to battle someone for their top spot unless it was previously agreed upon. I've heard of two dominant forces coming together to have a lustful battle and see which one ends up on the bottom. If you're asking why men try to dominate Dommes when it's unwanted by the Domme, I'd guess it has to do with primal instincts coupled with a lack of maturity and wisdom on the subject. A lot of guys use the mantle of being a Dom to cope with their own insecurities and shortcomings so when they meet a female who's more dominant than they are, they feel like they have something to prove. That's my guess. I'd never do something like that because the whole Dominant/Submissive dynamic is dependent on the chemistry of the people involved. So I'd never try to dominate someone who didn't want it from me, be they sub or Domme.

Just trying to understand. If a man tells me he's a Dom i will immediately and politely tell them I am not submissive.

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Why?

In a great number of cases the battle will commence.

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I already don't get what this is supposed to mean.


Anyway - why do you think they want to dominate because you are a dominant and why isn't the reason that you are female?

(Despite this, according to your tale, you state that you are not submissive, which does not automatically mean that you are a female dominant.)

MeekMe said:

Women often times have to change their wording to keep keep from hurting/challenging men in the workplace.

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Men often times have to change their wording to keep from hurting women in the workplace.

Primalex said:

Men often times have to change their wording to keep from hurting women in the workplace.

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How is that? Because I'm talking about women that basically have to alter their personalities because they may be penalized for appearing too confident or domineering in the workplace.

MeekMe said:

How is that? Because I'm talking about women that basically have to alter their personalities because they may be penalized for appearing too confident or domineering in the workplace.

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Because people, regardless of anybody's sex, has arrogant and abusive bosses and co-workers who can make their working life hell for any reason if they so pleased...

MeekMe said:

Women often times have to change their wording to keep keep from hurting/challenging men in the workplace. Apparently, this extends here as well.

I have no idea how "I'm not submissive," equates to challenging someone to a dual. I'd think anyone that sees that as a challenge needs to check their insecurities.

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Changing the way you say something has nothing to do with a dominance challenge. It has everything to do with being politically correct or deciding to say something in a way that no one will be offended or emotionally hurt by it. (The response to the age-old question of whether your pants make your butt look big is a perfect example here.) In essence, you twist the truth to be neutral so you don't offend someone and thus, have to defend yourself from those who choose to intentionally misunderstand. Unfortunately, when it comes to human sexuality and responses, you can't do that. Honesty is the only way to get beyond the confusion. So, let's be honest here.

Human evolution has created certain basic instincts. In some people, one of those is strong enough to require that they always be on top. When you put two people with that instinct together, one of them will come out the winner IF there's any conflict at all. The way to avoid that is to not play that game unless you have to. Men have figured this out. Most dominant women have too. This is how some women can be "just one of the guys" and not get hit on or ridiculed or pushed around.

"I am not a submissive" is a challenge because the instinctual response is "Really? Let's test that theory." An alternative way to say it is: "You're not the boss of me." You and I both know that there will always be someone who will take you up on that.

It has nothing to do with insecurities or the rest of that psychobabble claptrap. The reason why is the way the statement is made. It's an absolute in a world where there are no absolutes. It's a challenge. You either take up the challenge or you lose the fight immediately. And that's the situation the OP is creating even if she doesn't realize it.

All the OP has to do is find a way to avoid doing that. She doesn't have to act submissive or anything, she just has to let everyone know she's not available unless they want to come to HER party. The way she does that is up to her. Some methods are probably more effective than others but either way, problem solved.

Cybermiss said:

Let me rephrase my question. My question was too encompassing.

Why a good share of Doms always feel the need to dominate a Domme?

Yes it happens to me all the time and they get pissy when I tell them I am not, not do I want to be submissive..

Just trying to understand. If a man tells me he's a Dom i will immediately and politely tell them I am not submissive. In a great number of cases the battle will commence. I usually will ignore the battle cry.

Click to expand...

I bred a pair of Great Danes once. It was interesting to watch. Physically the male was bigger and stronger, and the bitch was in heat, so it was definitely on. On the other hand, the female really enjoyed making the dog work for it. They spent hours running and chasing and slobbering all over each other. She would run at him, crash into him, climb on him, then run away. Sometimes the bitch would get bitchy and snap at the male, sometimes he wouldn't care, sometimes he would get really pushy in response. When she really didn't want to be mounted, she would just sit down, a tactic for which he had no answer. Eventually, however, they fucked. For them, dominance and submission was a kind of dance, and she made him be dominant by making dominant displays at him, but in the end she submitted to his advances. This kind of behavior is not unusual among animals and I think it underlies some of what you're experiencing. Perhaps male doms should know that you 'mean it' when you present as a domme, but some fraction of them are going to have an instinct to test this. If we don't expect 'submissives' to automatically surrender to self-proclaimed doms, we shouldn't expect doms to simply turn themselves off when initially rebuffed. Of course, people need to get the message at some point, but there isn't any way to establish a priori what that point should be.

If the problem is that men are being assholes to you, that's kind of a different issue, IMO. I don't think failing to take everything you say at face value constitutes being an asshole, though.

Blue said:

Because people, regardless of anybody's sex, has arrogant and abusive bosses and co-workers who can make their working life hell for any reason if they so pleased...

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That's true, but women are often times judged more harshly simply for being women. A woman that adds qualifiers in her speech isn't taken seriously. A woman that speaks directly without qualifiers is seen as a threat. A woman that doesn't negotiate a raise doesn't get it and it's her fault. If she negotiates it she risks penalty for doing so (and this has been studied and found to be more likely to happen) and that's her fault too for being bossy. Women cannot usually get away with the same kinds of speech/actions that men can. Even here in the thread a woman saying "I'm not submissive" is a challenge, maybe even a threat? Perhaps we should take Arpy's advise and add a qualifier: "I'm no expert on the subject, but I'm not submissive."

The problem is men still think women have to prove it to "mean it."

If she says she means it, she means it.

Why is this so fucking difficult?

Oh.

I know why.

Misogyny.
Insecurity.
Ego.

Farawyn said:

The problem is men still think women have to prove it to "mean it."

If she says she means it, she means it.

Why is this so fucking difficult?

Oh.

I know why.

Misogyny.
Insecurity.
Ego.

Click to expand...

I'm no expert on the subject, but I think you're on to something here.