Story Discussion: 6 March 2012 "The Crush" by misterstan

Welcome to the story discussion thread for my story, "The Crush."

The story is in the Loving Wives category. In short, this is a story about a crisis in a relationship when a wife discovers she has a crush on a co-worker. It is told from the perspective of the husband who has to deal with the situation and his wife's affair. The story is entirely heterosexual. There are several scenes of voyeurism.

The story has an alternate version, told from the wife's perspective, "The Crush -- Annie's Tale." Each story can, I believe stand alone, but the stories are complementary.

"The Crush" is four lit pages long.

Link to "The Crush"

The story is in the Loving Wives section. "The Crush." http://www.literotica.com/s/the-crush-9

The alternate version is available at http://www.literotica.com/s/the-crush-annies-tale

You can also presumably find it by following my author link.

Conclusions and Questions

The theme of this story, and most of my stories actually, is essentially "still water runs deep" -- that within many women, who lead conservative, conventional lives, there is a deep sexual longing that just needs the right stimulus to release. My male characters generally both yearn to unleash this, but fear the consequences. Another theme is that people do have affairs and that those affairs often (usually?) lead to a reconciliation, however difficult.

I think the story works pretty well, but the feedback I received was quite mixed. I was hoping for a more sustained discussion. In particular, I am interested in feedback about three issues:

(1) What do you think of Dave? Is he too pathetic? Too much of a doormat? Or was I able to convey that he really loves Annie, that he doesn't want to lose her, and that he so confused by her behavior that he is almost paralyzed? Do you consider his behavior realistic? Or does it come off fetishistic and masochistic?

(2) What do you think of the ending? Does it feel right? Is his epiphany plausible?

(3) What about Annie? She's not supposed to be an evil shrew. She's supposed to be also feeling adrift, out of control. Does that come across, or does she come off just unpleasant? Do you buy her behavior? Or is the change in her too extreme?

(4) What is your take on the sex scenes? Too explicit? Not explicit enough? Are they paced right?

(5) What other criticisms do you have? What worked particularly well? What didn't? How can I improve my writing and storytelling?

I look forward to a good discussion. There are several other issues I hope will come out in the thread, but I think I've stirred up the water enough for now.

misterstan said:

The theme of this story, and most of my stories actually, is essentially "still water runs deep" -- that within many women, who lead conservative, conventional lives, there is a deep sexual longing that just needs the right stimulus to release.

Click to expand...

Unfortunately, there was nothing that you wrote that suggested that. There was no character development for Annie. Out of the blue, she just says, "I'm going to fuck Greg."

Then she invites him (Greg) over, and makes the husband watch.

Stranger still, the husband does not react and walks away quietly.

He (the husband) has meaningless sex with a prostitute and there is closure.

Maybe this is a Fetish thing, I don't know, but the characters seem unlikable and unbelievable, and the ending seems forced.

Hi Stan,

I only read the version of the events as told by Dave, which I believe is meant to be the focus of the discussion.

(1) What do you think of Dave? Is he too pathetic?

Click to expand...

I have no earthly clue what it would be like to be Dave, so it's really hard for me to say if he's too anything. I kept expecting him to totally lose it. Often he seems bit blasé about it all, or is he just so shocked? *shrugs* I thought you did well with the pain that he feels, but beyond that, I just don't know. In the end, I accepted that he's a low-key, cerebral kind of guy who really loves his wife in spite of what she's doing and I was able to be there with him on those terms, if that makes sense.

(2) What do you think of the ending? Does it feel right? Is his epiphany plausible?

Click to expand...

I like what you did there, especially since I didn't see it coming.

That said, the ending might be just a bit too tidy, even though he pretty much says he doesn't expect their future to be turmoil free.

Come to think of it, if Dave's willing to accept his wife having sex with other men, which he seems to be at the end, why don't they just become swingers?

(3) What about Annie?

Click to expand...

Oooo. I think she's evil on sooo many levels. That whole doing it in front of him thing? Seriously, that's just cruel. And then when she says she's done with Greg, but then she can't stop? Bzzzt! Over the line, sister! And if she ever used a condom, I didn't see it. C'mon- she said he was a player, not protecting herself and her husband too- that's just irresponsible.

So, yeah, I didn't have a problem believing her behavior, but in the process of believing it, I really came to despise her.

That she'd just turned thirty is a nice little touch.

(4) What is your take on the sex scenes? Too explicit? Not explicit enough? Are they paced right?

Click to expand...

I was not remotely aroused by this story. For me, it was more like watching the proverbial train wreck. Each time Annie and Greg got together I was like, "Oh, she's not really going to... well, yeah, ok, I guess she is."

(5) What other criticisms do you have? What worked particularly well? What didn't? How can I improve my writing and storytelling?

Click to expand...

I didn't have any trouble believing the general storyline. This may be because I know a r/l couple that had a prenup agreement wherein each could have a one-time-only weekend fling and, sure enough, one of them did and I got to hear all about it from the other. Plus, back in the day when I was married, a couple we socialized with turned out to be far more social than I expected-- and asked us to join them. I ixnayed that, but yeah, I know these things really do happen.

The whole good-girl-can't-resist-big-cock thing is so eye-rolling cliché, even if it was meant to be just Dave's insecurity coming through the narration.

The opening is a little sloppy, but after the real story started the narrative style settled down and I found the tale was quite readable.

The only big question I have is: What did you intend to accomplish with this story?

Thanks for sharing your work with us. You've written a pretty good story, one that's much better than the score indicates, but that's often the case around here unless you're just writing fluff.

Take Care,
Penny

Follow up

Hi guys, thanks for the feedback.

Dream_Operator: Right, that is fair. I guess, my story isn't so much about a woman's journey of discovery and much more about male fear and insecurity and, I guess, helplessness in that face of that unleashed sexuality.

Penny: I admit, I don't have a huge agenda when I write. I write to entertain myself and, hopefully, others. What brings me to this discussion really is that my stories seem to unleash a tremendous amount of vitriol, and I'm trying to ascertain why that is.

About Annie... I don't see her as evil. Weak maybe, in her own way. Certainly selfish. I tried to paint her as very controlled, maybe even a bit tightly wound, probably not really in touch with her emotions. She doesn't really know how to handle her infatuation with Greg. I make this more explicit in the companion piece, but I was at least trying to hint at this here.

In terms of Greg and swinging. He doesn't want to swing. But he doesn't want to lose Annie either. He is, I think, hopefully but wary at the end, and his fear about Annie cheating again is supposed to be more a matter of having been beaten down rather than a well considered position. I don't know if that makes sense.

misterstan said:

Penny: I admit, I don't have a huge agenda when I write. I write to entertain myself and, hopefully, others. What brings me to this discussion really is that my stories seem to unleash a tremendous amount of vitriol, and I'm trying to ascertain why that is.

Click to expand...

How interesting.

I don't see what the mystery is with the negative emotions you're stirring, especially if this tale is representative of the rest of your collection.

First, you're writing about marital infidelity, which is a mega lightning rod. Next, you've created some seriously flawed characters. Lastly, the villain wins. How satisfying is that ever going to be?

Who really enjoys reading about corrupt persons hurting the ones who love them? Or, is Dream_Operator on the right track when he asks if it's a fetish thing?

I had a look at the story as told by Annie and she's even less sympathetic in that version. She can tell me all she wants how she loves Dave, but I don't believe her. She's either an outright liar or a lunatic in denial.

And poor Dave. Yeah, he's pathetic. Whether he's too pathetic depends on how pathetic you meant for him to be. So while he is sympathetic, it's in a depressing rather than uplifting kind of way.

For me, this story is a tragedy. Their relationship is damaged to the point where I think it's unhealthy for Dave to stay with Annie. He'd be better off just moving on. That he lacks the courage to do so makes it even sadder. Like you said, at the end, he's beaten, and his wife is the one who did the beating.

If you want to write stories about women who are powderkegs of uncontrollable lust just waiting for their fuse to be lit, well, you aren't the first to fashion smut from that premise. But repeatedly exploring it within the context of a monogamous relationship, well, seriously, what buttons are you trying to push? In what way do you expect a reader to be entertained by such a story?

Penny:

I understand your argument. A few responses/thoughts:

I've been exploring this particular theme for a while because I guess I'm just not happy with its treatment generally. I mean, this is a very popular story area. And yet a lot of the stories just don't grip me. Why?

Well, a lot of the stories are the sort of happy swinger types. "I love seeing my wife have sex with other men. Let me tell you about some of those experiences, and how happy they made me." Blah. No dramatic tension, nothing to resolve. Those are the ones that strike me as more fetishistic, no? Unless you have that particular kink, why be interested in it?

Then there are a lot of angry ones. "My wife cheated on me. So I got my revenge by cheating, beating, killing, etc her/her lover." I get the emotional catharsis there, but a lot of those stories also leave me cold. Many just feel misogynistic. Sure, there is a more definite resolution, but the resolutions often just don't feel credible.

I've been writing in this genre for a bit because I don't feel like I've really nailed the thing down. There needs to be some sort of dramatic tension, or else why read it? That tension, in this context, is going to be related to issues of jealous, deception, fear of loss, anger. Sure, those are negative emotions, but they are real, no? There needs to be some resolution, but making that resolution revenge strikes me as even more depressing. I mean, how empty.

Let's say Dave videotapes Annie and Greg, and then uses the videotape to, say, get him fired and screw her over in a divorce. Then the "good guy" win, but how is that less depressing?

I'm not trying to convince you, I guess I'm just curious about whether you think this is a storytelling dead end. That essentially once you proceed down the path of exploring infidelity, you inevitably run into an unsatisfying dead end unless you turn everyone in the end into happy swingers (which I'd argue is an equally unsatisfying conclusion).

Argument? Yikes! I didn't think we were arguing. So you don't need to convince me, really, because I don't think we're actually disagreeing so much as looking at the same thing from different perspectives. It's not like either of us is necessarily wrong.

When I said your story is a tragedy for me, that's not a criticism. I think it's a good tragedy. Was I not supposed to feel sad for Dave at the end? Once Annie shatters his trust, I don't see how Dave can really win. If he turned vengeful, he'd just lose even more. Annie could lose big time if he leaves her, though that's a different story best told from her perspective, and still a tragedy.

I suppose if you wanted a happier conclusion, Annie could stop seeing Greg after that first encounter, and then turn her newfound sexual dynamo loose on Dave. Not as meaningful a story, perhaps, but would it be more fun to read?

I am with you in that tension-less stories are lame.

Swinging situations can lead to tension, although if it all works out, not likely as much as cheating. That r/l incident I referred to earlier where the swingers invited us to join them- that definitely resulted in some tension and, even though I declined, it still ended up leading to a live changing series of events.

You're right about the LW category in that there are too many groups of readers looking for conflicting ingredients in their story, so high scores are harder to come by. It's also worth remembering that the little red H stands for hot, not good. So it could be that you have nailed it down and are reaching that segment of the readers that seek your kind of story, and the rest are just spitting their usual venom at anything that doesn't satisfy their niche desires. And if you have nailed it down, then maybe you are at a story telling dead end.

howdy,

I find the LW category to be a tad bit skewed submission wise. I personally wouldn't want to read this story while browsing that category. I never thought LW was about wives loving everyone but their husband. I personally thought it was about wives that step up for the love of their husband.

As far as your story, I don't read stories that depress me, or at least I try not to While you are correct, this behavior does exist in real life, do people want to read about it at an erotic story site? I don't know, because I can only speak for myself.

I personally have no trouble seeing past a story's theme, and see the writer's story telling skills, so I tend to read other works by a writer even if I don't like everything they write.

As far as tension, I agree its important to a good story, but when it ends with new tension, or unresolved tension, I feel its a big disappointment, unless the story continues in another chapter, and eventually you get a mainstream acceptable ending. Maybe that's my point, and if the problems and character flaws are considered "real life" the ending should as well?

Just my two cents worth

Derro

misterstan said:

Welcome to the story discussion thread for my story, "The Crush."

The story is in the Loving Wives category. In short, this is a story about a crisis in a relationship when a wife discovers she has a crush on a co-worker. It is told from the perspective of the husband who has to deal with the situation and his wife's affair. The story is entirely heterosexual. There are several scenes of voyeurism.

The story has an alternate version, told from the wife's perspective, "The Crush -- Annie's Tale." Each story can, I believe stand alone, but the stories are complementary.

"The Crush" is four lit pages long.

Click to expand...

Whatever happened to this stories?

Holy shit! A 2012 bump! It looks like the last time MisterStan posted to the BB qas in 2014 and he last updated his author's profile in 2004! Seems he took hus stories down. "Loving wives" is a tough category. It's a cess pool of trolls.