The lesbian category - disrespectful categorizations

Lesbian Literotica stories

As one who has written & posted SEVERAL Lesbian stories on this site, I'm happy to report that NONE of my stories have EVER included anything approaching boy/girl or boy/boy relationships, as NOBODY visits the Lesbian story section to read about boy/girl or gay male sex! NOBODY!

My own personal gripe about the Lesbian section of this Literotica web-site is that it doesn't break-down "Lesbian" sex into different categories the way that it does with heterosexual stories.

I would dearly LOVE seeing story sections set aside exclusively for:

1) Lesbian BDSM
2) Lesbian Celebrities
3) Lesbian First Time
4) Lesbian Illustrated (with artwork)
5) Lesbian Interracial
6) Lesbian Nonconsent/Reluctance
7) Lesbian Older/Younger

Even if there was a way to include all or some of these in the search-mode it would be highly appreciated.

Dumpington

.........

Full disclosure is healthy, so here it is.

I *may* have found one issue that could certainly play a part in this topic. Just now I was checking a new comment I had received on a story and noticed that the 'tags' I had filled out for it had been shortened down significantly to one-word items. When I went back to check a few others, including the previously referenced 'Pushing Buttons' story, they had also received the same treatment.

'Lesbian' was a tag on Pushing Buttons, which was NOT an intended tag. I admit I cannot remember what the full tag was, but it was a little more descriptive than that and would not have left a reader expecting pure-lesbian.

I don't think it would make sense to establish a whole series of subcategories purely for lesbian stories. The same would be required for Gay Male, and then Incest would have an argument for the same treatment due to it's volume, and so on. I do believe the Tagging system needs to be looked at however, because if my tag is changed enough that it no longer says what I intended, there is an issue. If this is why BitterIchor came around to Pushing Buttons and found it wasn't her cup of tea, I have a little more sympathy for her feelings but my stance remains the same for her follow up.

I appreciate your input BreakTheBar, and I understand what you're saying. I never seriously thought they'd consider adding extra options for Lesbian Literotica stories - it's just something that I WISH could happen!

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Celedriel said:

I agree that's not what you want, it shouldn't be what you find. What can be clearer than that.

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I don't agree. This expects all stories should be alike, catering to the interests of a single reader. There are a lot of aids here to help a reader zero in on stories they would like (although they wouldn't die to expand their reading a bit anyway). Beyond this, this is an adults-only site. The reader can jolly well take adult responsibility for finding stories to his/her liking, using the aids provided here, and just back out of stories they don't like without whining and posting to the forum about it.

BreakTheBar said:

Full disclosure is healthy, so here it is.

I *may* have found one issue that could certainly play a part in this topic. Just now I was checking a new comment I had received on a story and noticed that the 'tags' I had filled out for it had been shortened down significantly to one-word items. When I went back to check a few others, including the previously referenced 'Pushing Buttons' story, they had also received the same treatment.

'Lesbian' was a tag on Pushing Buttons, which was NOT an intended tag. I admit I cannot remember what the full tag was, but it was a little more descriptive than that and would not have left a reader expecting pure-lesbian.

I don't think it would make sense to establish a whole series of subcategories purely for lesbian stories. The same would be required for Gay Male, and then Incest would have an argument for the same treatment due to it's volume, and so on. I do believe the Tagging system needs to be looked at however, because if my tag is changed enough that it no longer says what I intended, there is an issue. If this is why BitterIchor came around to Pushing Buttons and found it wasn't her cup of tea, I have a little more sympathy for her feelings but my stance remains the same for her follow up.

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Incest is already a subset of heterosexual stories, a breakdown not given here to lesbian, gay, or bi stories (e.g., GM incest stories are just thrown into the general GM category). There's no reason on a fair, open site why lesbian, GM, and bi shouldn't get similar category breakdowns that hetero stories already enjoy.

sr71plt said:

Incest is already a subset of heterosexual stories, a breakdown not given here to lesbian, gay, or bi stories (e.g., GM incest stories are just thrown into the general GM category). There's no reason on a fair, open site why lesbian, GM, and bi shouldn't get similar category breakdowns that hetero stories already enjoy.

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I would argue that the volume of stories speaks to the need for breaking down into further categories. In an albeit brief survey of the current stats/postings in the last week...

Gay Male - Total Stories: ~14,200; Average Daily Postings: 3-5
Lesbian - Total Stories: ~12,600; Average Daily Postings: 2-3
Incest - Total Stories: ~34,500; Average Daily Postings: 4-14

Currently only 2 days worth of postings are on the front page of the Incest section because there have been over 10 for each. I slotted the minimum in based on prior knowledge, or else the average would have been ~12.

With 2-3 postings a day, plus whatever could already be getting posted in other categories while remaining purely lesbian, I just do not see a need to 'muddy the waters' of the front page with more categories. With 32 categories, I believe some of them could even be folded into others and oinly remain separate based on the culture that has developed here over the years.

I wouldn't, however, be opposed to seeing the option of fitting in sub-categories on the submission page that relate only to Search functions. This should be the function of tags, but as I stated before: broken, or at least has an issue.

BreakTheBar said:

I just do not see a need to 'muddy the waters' of the front page with more categories. With 32 categories, I believe some of them could even be folded into others and oinly remain separate based on the culture that has developed here over the years.

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Of course you don't. You don't write lesbian, GM, or bi and have to face unknowing readers complaining that a story should be in Romance, or Incest, or Nonconsent without realizing that nearly all GM and lesbian stories are restricted to those general categories.

If you think 29 hetero categories, 1 lesbian, 1 GM, and 1 transvestite are too many categories already, well, very good. To be fair cut down on the number of hetero categories (remember that monthly awards are given out by category, which grossly favors hetero stories) and balance up by at least giving bi a category.

But then you don't write in lesbian, GM, or bi do you? so it isn't your ox being gored and you don't need to see anyone else's perspective.

By your reasoning, your favorite category, Sci-Fi, can be one of the first hetero ones dumped in favor of parity with GM and lesbian, both of which have higher post numbers than Sci-Fi--and the numbers of which surely would go up if Lit. were more gay friendly.

I'm just happy that they don't include lesbian stories under an overall GAY topic line, as there's an enormous difference between lesbian eroticism and stories about gay men being together.

For example, I never liked it when the folks at Barnes & Noble book stores used to put their lesbian erotica books in the same section as their gay male books! I mean, they're NOT the same thing, unless the books concern LGBT politics (not at ALL an erotic subject, by the way!)

Even here at Literotica, where we all share a joy for reading/writing racy stories of a prurient nature, let's be honest - what interests YOU may be REPULSIVE to me! If you want to post gay male photos/pics, for example, WHY would you choose to do it on a forum section that's supposed to be about LEBSBIANISM?

That really makes no sense to me, yet it happens all the time!

Dumpington said:

I'm just happy that they don't include lesbian stories under an overall GAY topic line, as there's an enormous difference between lesbian eroticism and stories about gay men being together.

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Agreed. The forum here at Literotica lumps them together and it makes the forum uninviting for either gay males or lesbians to read.

All these classification problems will go away when Manu installs the new tag system in around 2020 or 2025. Then those looking for Lesbian Multiracial Incest BDSM and Bisexual NonHuman Cheating Lovers Anal and Straight BBW Trephanation NonCon will have an easier time navigating the treacherous shoals.

Hypoxia said:

All these classification problems will go away when Manu installs the new tag system in around 2020 or 2025. Then those looking for Lesbian Multiracial Incest BDSM and Bisexual NonHuman Cheating Lovers Anal and Straight BBW Trephanation NonCon will have an easier time navigating the treacherous shoals.

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But, as you will be 152 when Manu thinks it's 2020 or 2025, will you really care?

sr71plt said:

But, as you will be 152 when Manu thinks it's 2020 or 2025, will you really care?

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I'll be younger than that in dog years.

Dumpington said:

I appreciate your input BreakTheBar, and I understand what you're saying. I never seriously thought they'd consider adding extra options for Lesbian Literotica stories - it's just something that I WISH could happen!

There's another sex-story site I know at [Site name removed.] that isn't as good as Literotica, but it DOES include breaking down lesbian stories into various categories (e.g. Authoritarian, Bondage, Celebrity, & Interracial, just to name a few), so I know that it CAN be done.

If you've never checked that site out, you should probably do so!

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Why are you spamming Lit?

sr71plt said:

By your reasoning, your favorite category, Sci-Fi, can be one of the first hetero ones dumped in favor of parity with GM and lesbian, both of which have higher post numbers than Sci-Fi--and the numbers of which surely would go up if Lit. were more gay friendly.

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Actually, I've always thought it's silly to have SciFi/Fantasy and Non-Human as different categories. I understand the differences, but there is so much crossover anyways the only reason to keep them separate is for the crowd who want Supernatural/Urban Fantasy (vampire/werewolf) paired out.

On a similar note: Humor and Satire could be split amongst the other applicable categories in favour of authors putting a note about their intended humor/satire in their stories. Letters and Transcripts could go the same way, though I can see an argument for most readers not wanting to read a script. Mind Control is (generally) a subcategory of Non Consent and could also be folded, though I get the Mind Control people not wanting to face the realization that many of their top stories are NonCon by another name. Chain Stories is also listed twice on the main page, and hasn't been used in a year.

I was using the total and daily posts as an example of where the activity of users on the site tend to be placed, and how that should influence conversation when looking at reform of the site. There is also an argument for 'squeaky wheel gets the grease' where those populations are not asking for a reform but Lesbian readership (and following the extension you made to Gay Male and Transsexual) exemplified by BitterIchor is.

The 'best case' answer without a large technical upgrade to the site would be a category/subcategory system with drop down menus.

I don't think squeaky wheels gets it done. Laurel let the folks pushing for a bi category run a thread on that on the GBLT board for over two years thinking she was listening to them and then, without ever having posted anything to that thread, posted to the AH that she wasn't giving any thought to instituting a bi category. That was a pretty squeaky--and ignored to the point of insult--wheel.

sr71plt said:

Incest is already a subset of heterosexual stories, a breakdown not given here to lesbian, gay, or bi stories (e.g., GM incest stories are just thrown into the general GM category). There's no reason on a fair, open site why lesbian, GM, and bi shouldn't get similar category breakdowns that hetero stories already enjoy.

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Incest, group, non con etc, are not subsets of hetero stories, stop being absurd with your persecution complex. There is lesbian and bi sex is group as well as incest(sis/sis mom/daughter etc..)

What you're saying you want is a 'homosexual' breakdown to match what you think is a hetero breakdown so you want

Gay group sex
Gay interracial
Gay romance

Every category could be further broken down incest could be
mom/son
dad/daughter/bro/sis...

Group could be done by pairings, interracial could be done by what ethnic pairing is involved.

It could go on and on.

So the site has it broken down as they feel they should and are not going to create sub categories for each.

This is why title and tag are important. Yes its an incest story, but that's the pairing? It should be in the tag

I will agree as I have since it was first proposed that a bi-category should be implemented, I think its different enough to warrant it.

And there's categories that could be merged with others to make room. Mind control is reluctance/non consent through and through, it does not need to be on its own.

I think non human and sci fi are close enough to one (I bet I take heat on that one)

I've always question why anal has its own, to me it could be swallowed up into fetish with the multitude of other kinks.

On the note of fetish, imagine the sub categories that one could have

No, I think the answer is the "soon" fix, anticipated in 3012, of going to tags, with the overall categories of straight, gay male, lesbian, transgender, and bi, but relying almost completely on a large set of multiple tags.

And I think that your assertion that Incest isn't functionally a subset of hetero here is absolutely ridiculous.

I would dearly LOVE seeing story sections set aside exclusively for:

1) Lesbian BDSM
2) Lesbian Celebrities
3) Lesbian First Time
4) Lesbian Illustrated (with artwork)
5) Lesbian Interracial
6) Lesbian Nonconsent/Reluctance
7) Lesbian Older/Younger

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Many has previously mentioned that there would be something like this for lesbian and gay.

My question is: what happens to the already existing stories?

HeyAll said:

Many has previously mentioned that there would be something like this for lesbian and gay.

My question is: what happens to the already existing stories?

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Prioritize what trumps what (not the best, but good enough) and go with the highest priority given in the tags. This could be automated, I'm sure. We have to make these category calls in the tags now because there's no other way to show any sort of category loser than gay/lesbian/bi.

Merging Sci-Fi&Fantasy with NonHuman wouldn't hurt any of the authors there. Some might not like it, but odds are that it would be a wash or an increase in readership. They're small readership categories, and combining them could only encourage people who may be tribalizing in one or the other to notice stories they otherwise wouldn't have seen in the other category.

It would really only matter to people who are on the toplists in each category and care a lot about it. That would suddenly double their competition for those top spots. It would also inflate the minimum score to hit that toplist dramatically, and it's already one of the highest on the site.

It's far more easily done than most other suggestions. Combining categories is easier by orders of magnitude than splitting them. Both categories are already filled with a wide range of kinks, degrees of story vs. sex, etc. There's nothing in either category that's going to be a huge "WTF" for the other.

If the condition for adding a Bi category was to find a way to cut out one, I'd suggest that in a heartbeat.

BitterIchor said:

Hi.

I'm sick and tired of constantly stumbling over stories in the lesbian category that involve heterosexual sex. That is not cool. People like me (gay women who are not attracted to men in the least) can't really find anything that excites us in any other category. As it is now, every other story is some heternormative male fantasy or married hetero couple story.

If you want to write a story about a male/female married couple having a threesome with another women or some other kind of storyline that is great! But consider putting it in a more suitable category than the lesbian one.

Thank you.

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I'm posting a story that you should love... It will be a spin off of my J&J series.