So whats the BIG deal about S Arabia killing a newspaper writer and why

BBX50 said:

so no answer why this is a big deal?


I dont see it

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Sorry, I had to go pull someone's ass(ets) out of the fire and just got back to read Keith D's / SR-71 Pilot's crazy rantings. OMG. Dude, you need some therapy. Keep notes, they might come in handy some day. Seriously, seek help, your TDS is going to affect your health if you don't.

In reality, the big deal is that if the Saudi's are using their embassies as secret bases for espionage and/or murder, then it's not really there for diplomatic purposes is it? Worse, diplomats shouldn't be engaged in killing people without trial or a hearing.

The part where it involves the US is that the Saudi's are our partners in the Middle East as well as being trading partners for oil and other goods/services. The US cannot condone what the Saudi's did, but it also cannot afford to lose their support.

That's called being between a Rock and a Hard Place. If we let it pass, then we are complicit after the fact (as is the rest of the world if they do so also). This gives license for future similar things by other diplomatic missions. At that point everyone stops trusting foreign diplomats and diplomacy dies.

If we call them on it, then they can respond with reduced oil exports and/or commercial ventures. They can refuse to aid us in ME operations against terrorists. They can even tariff or embargo US goods and services. Having a spat between us while Iran is asserting power is a stupid idea. Yet...

“Trump Anxiety Disorder”: Psychologists’ Couches Are Filling Up As Americans Seek Relief


https://hotair.com/headlines/archiv...ogists-couches-filling-americans-seek-relief/

HisArpy said:

Sorry, I had to go pull someone's ass(ets) out of the fire and just got back to read Keith D's / SR-71 Pilot's crazy rantings. OMG. Dude, you need some therapy. Keep notes, they might come in handy some day. Seriously, seek help, your TDS is going to affect your health if you don't.

In reality, the big deal is that if the Saudi's are using their embassies as secret bases for espionage and/or murder, then it's not really there for diplomatic purposes is it? Worse, diplomats shouldn't be engaged in killing people without trial or a hearing.

The part where it involves the US is that the Saudi's are our partners in the Middle East as well as being trading partners for oil and other goods/services. The US cannot condone what the Saudi's did, but it also cannot afford to lose their support.

That's called being between a Rock and a Hard Place. If we let it pass, then we are complicit after the fact (as is the rest of the world if they do so also). This gives license for future similar things by other diplomatic missions. At that point everyone stops trusting foreign diplomats and diplomacy dies.

If we call them on it, then they can respond with reduced oil exports and/or commercial ventures. They can refuse to aid us in ME operations against terrorists. They can even tariff or embargo US goods and services. Having a spat between us while Iran is asserting power is a stupid idea. Yet...

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Oh Please



and this whole BS still doesnt answer why we should care

HisArpy said:

Sorry, I had to go pull someone's ass(ets) out of the fire and just got back to read Keith D's / SR-71 Pilot's crazy rantings. OMG. Dude, you need some therapy. Keep notes, they might come in handy some day. Seriously, seek help, your TDS is going to affect your health if you don't.

In reality, the big deal is that if the Saudi's are using their embassies as secret bases for espionage and/or murder, then it's not really there for diplomatic purposes is it? Worse, diplomats shouldn't be engaged in killing people without trial or a hearing.

The part where it involves the US is that the Saudi's are our partners in the Middle East as well as being trading partners for oil and other goods/services. The US cannot condone what the Saudi's did, but it also cannot afford to lose their support.

That's called being between a Rock and a Hard Place. If we let it pass, then we are complicit after the fact (as is the rest of the world if they do so also). This gives license for future similar things by other diplomatic missions. At that point everyone stops trusting foreign diplomats and diplomacy dies.

If we call them on it, then they can respond with reduced oil exports and/or commercial ventures. They can refuse to aid us in ME operations against terrorists. They can even tariff or embargo US goods and services. Having a spat between us while Iran is asserting power is a stupid idea. Yet...

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Not to take sides, I'm kind of ambivalent about this being an American national security concern, but can you name an American embassy that doesn't have a resident CIA asset or military Intel attache?

Rightguide said:

Not to take sides, I'm kind of ambivalent about this being an American national security concern, but can you name an American embassy that doesn't have a resident CIA asset or military Intel attache?

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I wouldn't know. My security clearances don't allow me to be read into those particular programs.

Let me, instead, ask you 2 return questions:

Can you name an American embassy where a foreign journalist was murdered while he was on embassy grounds?

Would you support the US continuing to do that if it has/had happened?

Too many times we play political games and turn a blind eye to what's really happening because we favor one side or the other. I get that. What I'm saying here is that there is a hard line between right and wrong. And this crosses it.

he was an enemy of teh State

THATS how you deal with them

he was a chief advisor to Turki Al Something or other

Turki was FIRED by MBS


He turned "critic"

He is DEAD

GOOD!

BBX50 said:

he was a chief advisor to Turki Al Something or other

Turki was FIRED by MBS


He turned "critic"

He is DEAD

GOOD!

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That's not my beef. I don't care if they killed him or not, that's the way the espionage game is conducted.

My concern is that it was done on embassy grounds. Every non-military official at an embassy should have a diplomatic passport. If someone with one of those is actually an operative for covert ops and conducts his business ON the embassy grounds, then his presence is not consistent with diplomatic privileges or purposes. The Headsman has no diplomatic purpose in a foreign land.

what does it have to do with the US?????????????????????

BBX50 said:

what does it have to do with the US?????????????????????

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C'mon BB, you aren't that dense. They're our ally. If we don't speak out, that means we condone what our ally did and that we will ALSO condone it if they do it again somewhere else.

I find it interesting that Turkey says they have audio and video that proves the guy was tortured and murdered. Where did that come from?

BBX50 said:

should we cancel $100 billion in arms sales?

WHO CARES?

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Better question why are we taking Turkey's word?

Of the two countries Turkey has been the great human rights violator and has imprisoned more of the press

HisArpy said:

I wouldn't know. My security clearances don't allow me to be read into those particular programs.

Let me, instead, ask you 2 return questions:

Can you name an American embassy where a foreign journalist was murdered while he was on embassy grounds?

Would you support the US continuing to do that if it has/had happened?

Too many times we play political games and turn a blind eye to what's really happening because we favor one side or the other. I get that. What I'm saying here is that there is a hard line between right and wrong. And this crosses it.

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1: No

2: No

But we aren't talking about American Embassies in the first place. I only mentioned American Embassies because all embassies even our own are centers of intelligence gathering, covet activities, as well as diplomatic efforts.

The other point we have no control over what happens in the Saudi Embassy. Official condemnations will be voiced but major diplomatic repercussions like cutting off aid or shutting down our embassy aren't in the national security interests of the United States.

As I posted, this is a big deal because it centers on Donald Trump and his being in bed with the Saudis to line his pockets. The murder of a U.S. resident Saudi Washington Post columnist centers on Trump. What did he know? When did he know it? What part did he play? What part will he play now?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...er-jamal-khashoggi/ar-BBOiLBr?ocid=spartanntp

milehighcityman said:

I find it interesting that Turkey says they have audio and video that proves the guy was tortured and murdered. Where did that come from?

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What's coming out is that Khashoggi broadcast his own torture and murder by the thugs of Donald Trump's good friend, the crown prince of Saudi Arabia, through the Apple watch he was wearing. And The Donald is still mealy-mouthing on this whole thing. He doesn't want to mess up a $100 billion arms deal with the Saudis, he says (nice, sensitive guy, ain't he?), which isn't really a $100 billion deal and that the Saudis can't take anywhere else anyway, because the arms they are supplying are American made.

So, how are you Trumpette despicables going to spin this one?

Oh, and thanks to the OP for asking this question.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-...ecorded-his-own-death-on-apple-watch/10373398

Hey Bridget. Kanye for president! I suspect you and he inhabit the same alternate universe.

magicalmoments said:

Hey Bridget. Kanye for president! I suspect you and he inhabit the same alternate universe.

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Hey Bridget, why do you hate Kanye the black man now? Wasn't he your hero when he hated Bush?

And again, why the fuck are you sticking your nose in American business? Go fuck yourself. Make a tiny little circle with your thumb and pointy finger and get busy.

BBX50 said:

should we cancel $100 billion in arms sales?

WHO CARES?

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You should.

The rule of the house of Saud has been predicated on the support of the extremist puritan moslem Wahabi clerics since about 1950.

You will remember that 20 of the 23 9/11 attackers were members of this group as was their leader Osama bin Laden.

The Wahabis constitute the whole of the Saudi religious police, they control 100% of the Universities, and dominate the armed forces.

When the current Crown Prince took control of Saudi Arabia a year or so ago, he agreed with the Wahabis to clamp down on the corruption of his own family members . That brought 100's of millions back into his control some of which also went to the Wahabis so that they could continue to ferment extreme Islam through their Madrassas in relatively moderate countries like Indonesia, Philippines, Myanmar, Thailand, Malaysia, Bangladesh and even China. You may have noticed that those same extremists have already caused a deal of problems in Syria, Libya, Iraq and
Afghanistan.

The Crown prince tossed a few bones to the west like letting women drive and similar minor matters but when Saudi politics gets serious they kill their enemies and dissidents. There are 3000 New Yorkers who are mute evidence of that savagery.

$100 billion in arms sales is a drop in the bucket compared to the damage the Saudi's are causing in the World.

And you have cast yourself in the role of cheer leader for the moslem extremists.

"Who cares?" well you clearly do not - but the USA's failure to keep the Saudis in line will cost $millions for the USA and many more US lives to keep the arms deal coffers overflowing.

So it's clear that Turkey has been bugging foreign embassies. We can safely assume that every embassy has been bugged (or at least attempted), including the US and Russian.

Probably the same thing goes on in most other countries.

But the really stupid thing here is that the victim was at the embassy to apply for a visa to go to Saudi. So they didn't need to murder him there, all they had to do was grant the visa and wait until he turned up in Riyadh where he could have been quietly slotted. No-one would have been ever the wiser.

Bray123 said:

But the really stupid thing here is that the victim was at the embassy to apply for a visa to go to Saudi. So they didn't need to murder him there, all they had to do was grant the visa and wait until he turned up in Riyadh where he could have been quietly slotted. No-one would have been ever the wiser.

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You might want to reevaluate what's stupid. He went to a consulate, not an embassy. They aren't the same thing. And he wasn't there to apply for a visa to go to Saudi. He was there to obtain some paperwork on his divorce so that he could marry again. He had no plans to return to Saudi Arabia.

That all countries who can (and who want to--there aren't that many countries that put effort into playing espionage with other countries beyond their neighboring countries) will use whatever surveillance they can afford and get away with to monitor the assets of other foreign countries is hardly new or news. In this case, though, what's floating now is that Khashoggi broadcast it all himself by way of an Apple wristwatch and the Turks picked it up in a program of signal intercepts (which every country that can manage to do it does, yes).

KeithD said:

You might want to reevaluate what's stupid. He went to a consulate, not an embassy. They aren't the same thing. And he wasn't there to apply for a visa to go to Saudi. He was there to obtain some paperwork on his divorce so that he could marry again. He had no plans to return to Saudi Arabia.

That all countries who can (and who want to--there aren't that many countries that put effort into playing espionage with other countries beyond their neighboring countries) will use whatever surveillance they can afford and get away with to monitor the assets of other foreign countries is hardly new or news. In this case, though, what's floating now is that Khashoggi broadcast it all himself by way of an Apple wristwatch and the Turks picked it up in a program of signal intercepts (which every country that can manage to do it does, yes).

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It has been widely reported in the UK that the incident was in the Embassy (as of today they still are).

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...di-journalist-recorded-death-Apple-Watch.html

I see that Wiki states 'Consulate'. I'm unsure as to what functions a Consulate delivers that an Embassy would not.

I also now see that the recording was from the victims own devices rather than Turkish State bugging. This wasn't made clear earlier.

My bad.

Anyone seen the body?

KeithD said:

As I posted, this is a big deal because it centers on Donald Trump and his being in bed with the Saudis to line his pockets. The murder of a U.S. resident Saudi Washington Post columnist centers on Trump. What did he know? When did he know it? What part did he play? What part will he play now?

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He's not in bed with the Saudis for personal gain, that is a lie, Keith. He's in bed with the Saudis, like Presidents before him, because they are the security bulwark between the Middle East and Iran. Our relationship with the Saudis is simply in the national security interest of the United States and our allies. It isn't because we approve of Saudi society or the barbarity of its Islamic culture, it's because when it comes to defeating Iran's quest for nuclear weapons our security interests are the same. Remember we had to align ourselves with the Communist mass murderer Joe Stalin in order to defeat Hitler.

Rightguide said:

He's not in bed with the Saudis for personal gain, that is a lie, Keith. He's in bed with the Saudis, like Presidents before him, because they are the security bulwark between the Middle East and Iran. Our relationship with the Saudis is simply in the national security interest of the United States and our allies. It isn't because we approve of Saudi society or the barbarity of its Islamic culture, it's because when it comes to defeating Iran's quest for nuclear weapons our security interests are the same. Remember we had to align ourselves with the Communist mass murderer Joe Stalin in order to defeat Hitler.

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One day maybe, the USA is gunna wake up to the fact that Saudi support of Wahabi theology and what it implies to International Terrorism, is far more dangerous than Iran's nuclear ambitions.

Meanwhile the USA will continue to have its middle eastern policy dictated from Jerusalem.

Any 'security bulwark ' which relies on any Arab nation is an oxymoron.

The big deal, like the Novichok poisoning in Salisbury, is that state assassinations in foreign countries are against international treaties. Embassies and consulates are permitted but have to comply with diplomatic conventions. They are protected by the countries in which the building is sited, and that protection is reciprocal.

A US Embassy in Saudi Arabia is supposed to be inviolate, as a Saudi Embassy in the US is. I know that countries have attacked embassies but the countries that have are considered pariahs by the international community.

What Russia did in Salisbury, what Saudi Arabia seems to have done in Turkey, is a serious abuse of another country's sovereignty. Both events seem to have been blatant and deliberate as if the offenders didn't care about the implications for international diplomacy.

If other countries think that these acts are legitimate, no diplomat anywhere will be considered safe. That breach of diplomatic conventions hasn't happened, even during wars, for hundreds of years.