Men, I'm dissapointed

NippleMuncher said:

As have most others, including the OP, whom we can only guess was trolling for sympathy, but obviously not getting any from the natives.

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Um, I believe that was the OP.

Just sayin'.

Emerson40 said:

Um, I believe that was the OP.

Just sayin'.

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DOH!!!

See there, just proves I'd given up on it too!

I also believe that whether or not you are looking for long term Mr. Right, you are looking in the wrong places, meeting the wrong people, and a little full of yourself. It's time to look in the mirror. The guys you are looking for wouldn't be interested in you, that's why you are only meeting up with the idiots. You've already got a preconception of every man on the planet.

Sheana_V said:

I've completely given up on this thread.

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It's another thing that's all our fault too.

Porkwarrior said:

It's another thing that's all our fault too.

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It's because you are having so much trouble COMMUNICATING EFFECTIVELY!

Aphroditiac said:

It's because you are having so much trouble COMMUNICATING EFFECTIVELY!

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But but but...she didn't want us to communicate! It's too rapey if the penis talks!

Porkwarrior said:

But but but...she didn't want us to communicate! It's too rapey if the penis talks!

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Go on, you know you wanna...

Well, I think she does have some valid concerns. Yeah, men tend toward having no fashion sense, some take poor care of their bodies, some are violent or act like apes, some think it's a woman's duty to give them pleasure, and so on.

But this:

Sheana_V said:

So, what's the deal?

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The "deal" is that you are either having very bad luck or using the same search pattern over and over, but expecting different results.

When you're determined to find a specific type of person, you better know where to go looking...

Also:

Sheana_V said:

And don't even get me started on "nice guys", they're the worst.

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What is your definition of a "nice guy"?

Tsotha said:

What is your definition of a "nice guy"?

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Apparently, anything with a penis.

NippleMuncher said:

Apparently, anything with a penis.

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A clean, well-groomed penis, that listens. And doesn't call her a bitch if playland should be closed.

Sheana_V said:

I've heard the refrain before about how easy it is for women to get laid. I sometimes wonder how many men actually consider the prospects from the other side.

- A great deal of men spend little time on outward appearance. Poor fashion choices, letting their body go, etc...
- Personal grooming seems to be lacking as well. Countless times have I opened a package to discover it smells of sweat and pee.
- Not to mention the constant fear that a guy is going to assault me. Countless times have I walked away from a guy flirting with me and been called a "bitch" or worse.
- Even when a guy is reasonable so frequently there seems to be a sense of entitlement. I've gone this far so I must want to go further. I want to have sex with you, therefore my only interest is making you cum, etc...
- Also the idea that you got me off, so I should be 'grateful' and 'honor your compassion'.

And don't even get me started on "nice guys", they're the worst.

What's really frustrating is that the way men seem to want to carry on in this society creates all these barriers to sexual interactions. Getting play when your a woman is not even close to easy.

So, what's the deal?

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Sheana_V,

Not sure if you are still following this thread, but I came across this Village Voice article that may shed some light on your plight. Although a few years old, it addresses some of the issues raised, and is specific to your neck of the woods.

Dear Single Women of NYC: It's Not Them, It's You

This sounds like buyers remorse.

If you're out looking for a used or new car. Usually a person researches what it is they're looking for. It can take weeks or even years depending on the make, model and year of the car involved.

What you don't do is go down your local car dealership and hop into the cheapest or most convenient jalopy on the forecourt! (This is assuming you're looking for a decent vehicle - and not a quick ride).

To my mind if you don't take care, you can't really complain if the interior of the car is a bit worn or the car has been clocked and the timing belt is two miles from a spectacular failure (taking the engine with it).

If you can't afford the Audi A6 or the nice shiny new Jag (insert car of choice here ) and have to settle for a boring old Ford or Nissan.

Sorry to say it but that's life!

Sheana_V said:

I've heard the refrain before about how easy it is for women to get laid. I sometimes wonder how many men actually consider the prospects from the other side.

- A great deal of men spend little time on outward appearance. Poor fashion choices, letting their body go, etc...
- Personal grooming seems to be lacking as well. Countless times have I opened a package to discover it smells of sweat and pee.
- Not to mention the constant fear that a guy is going to assault me. Countless times have I walked away from a guy flirting with me and been called a "bitch" or worse.
- Even when a guy is reasonable so frequently there seems to be a sense of entitlement. I've gone this far so I must want to go further. I want to have sex with you, therefore my only interest is making you cum, etc...
- Also the idea that you got me off, so I should be 'grateful' and 'honor your compassion'.

And don't even get me started on "nice guys", they're the worst.

What's really frustrating is that the way men seem to want to carry on in this society creates all these barriers to sexual interactions. Getting play when your a woman is not even close to easy.

So, what's the deal?

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The average guy is an inconsiderate moron who never matured past 14 and thinks life is a porn video where women live to serve.

But there are nice guys out there. Identified by lack of BO and the refraining of calling you names if you do not want to hop on their dick after two minutes of their oh so witty banter

Its like going to a yard sale, you'll see a lot of shit, but you can also find a treasure here and there.

You forgot to ad my pet peeve. Guys who say "she;d be hotter if she dropped a few pounds" this inevitably comes from a guy with a body built by Budweiser and who can't see his tool without a mirror.

I pointed that out to a couple of guys in a bar a few weeks ago. They were not amused with me.

Go figure.

lovecraft68 said:

The average guy is an inconsiderate moron who never matured past 14 and thinks life is a porn video where women live to serve.

But there are nice guys out there. Identified by lack of BO and the refraining of calling you names if you do not want to hop on their dick after two minutes of their oh so witty banter

Its like going to a yard sale, you'll see a lot of shit, but you can also find a treasure here and there.

You forgot to ad my pet peeve. Guys who say "she;d be hotter if she dropped a few pounds" this inevitably comes from a guy with a body built by Budweiser and who can't see his tool without a mirror.

I pointed that out to a couple of guys in a bar a few weeks ago. They were not amused with me.

Go figure.

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You'd make a helluva wingman, LC.

Sheana_V said:

I've heard the refrain before about how easy it is for women to get laid. I sometimes wonder how many men actually consider the prospects from the other side.

- A great deal of men spend little time on outward appearance. Poor fashion choices, letting their body go, etc...
- Personal grooming seems to be lacking as well. Countless times have I opened a package to discover it smells of sweat and pee.
- Not to mention the constant fear that a guy is going to assault me. Countless times have I walked away from a guy flirting with me and been called a "bitch" or worse.
- Even when a guy is reasonable so frequently there seems to be a sense of entitlement. I've gone this far so I must want to go further. I want to have sex with you, therefore my only interest is making you cum, etc...
- Also the idea that you got me off, so I should be 'grateful' and 'honor your compassion'.

And don't even get me started on "nice guys", they're the worst.

What's really frustrating is that the way men seem to want to carry on in this society creates all these barriers to sexual interactions. Getting play when your a woman is not even close to easy.

So, what's the deal?

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I think what helped me out the most growing up was the fact that most of my friends were women, and they were platonic friends not romantic ones.

This firmly establishes a proper baseline of respect and treating someone as an equal, and having the proper level of empathy. If a man cannot have a female friend, and treat her exactly with the level of respect he would treat a male friend, then he doesn't really have much business dating women, in my opinion.

The other factor is that he shouldn't treat the women he dates with any less respect than the women he considers a close personal friend.

THAT, is what is lacking in men. Men who only have ever really had male friends, or have only had the occasional tomboyish female friend that they treat like "one of the guys" and consider women to be fundamentally different from men, those are the kinds of men who will not reciprocate for you.

You take the time to dress well, wash up, shave, and look perfect, and they do not. The reason is because they do not respect you as a person. They might desire you as a woman, but they aren't willing to treat you as much beyond an object of desire and interaction, if that.

Now, fashion... I've never been that great with fashion. However, when I go on a date, I'll often go out and buy a brand new set of nice looking pants and a nice, neutral-looking, button-down shirt, casual depending on the setting. I mean I'm not going to ever win fashion awards but I try to look presentable as best I can.

OMG personal grooming. Once again, this goes back to empathy and respect for women as equals. I have a rule, and it is a rule that all men who expect to date women should follow, even though they don't.

Let's pretend I was able to somehow reach down and put my own penis in my mouth, and this was a complete requirement before I'm allowed to even touch this woman. The rule is, if I am not willing to put that in my mouth before touching her, then I would be out of my effing mind to expect her to even be around me, let alone touch me. My body needs to be at least as clean and presentable as hers is. And I have rules about her, too... she needs to be washed and smelling nice for us to have sex, and she needs to be neatly trimmed or completely shaved for oral sex to happen. Therefore, unless my body is in the exact same level of conditions I expect hers to be, I'll even go out of my way to insist I shower first and get ready.

Frankly, I'm uncomfortable and embarrassed by the idea that my body isn't clean or smelling nice. That's something to be ashamed of, if one is expecting to be intimate with someone. Clean it up, and you'll feel much more comfortable being with someone. A lot less self-conscious.

But that's just it, some guys aren't self-conscious because they aren't at all worried about what women expect in return. They don't bother to take the time to put themselves in their shoes. Such people are only concerned with their own needs, and thus, shouldn't even be out on the dating market, except as a perpetually lonely bachelor. I encourage women to not put up with it, so they make themselves actually available to be pursued by better men. Reject all men who aren't willing to wash up. This is like step one, it baffles me that we're still on step one.

The fear of assault, and words like "bitch" or "slut" and so forth, degrading language. This again, is the same problem as before. These are men who do not see women as fellow people. That's that lack of empathy all over again. These are men who never learned how to talk to women except to attract them initially. They have no idea how to interact with women as everyday people. And thus, they too, should be rejected over and over and over until their lack of intimacy compels them to start treating women like people.

Honestly, you need to look for men who already have established female friends that they aren't sleeping around with. These are the only men who really deserve your attention. If all their friends are guys, there's a reason for that, 99 percent of the time. The reason is, they don't like women. They enjoy them, for their own purposes, but they don't actually like women.

Me? I don't get along with guys. Nothing personal, but I find all of the same factors you find when it comes to finding men that are tolerable. I generally find them to be uncaring, often mean-spirited, eager to be dismissive or insulting towards whatever targets are socially acceptable, don't respect personal space, don't respect differences, and are difficult to have intelligent conversations with.

Now, if I were to reverse that, and had similar feelings about women, then I would be one of those guys who doesn't have any business dating women. There needs to be some respect and appreciation for one another on a non-sexual level for there to be any chance of a real relationship to happen. But some men simply cannot get along with women, cannot respect them, think less of them, and have no non-sexual desire to even be around them.

That's what I mean about men who don't like women. They might be straight, they might desire them, but they don't actually like them. Don't want to hear what you have to say, don't care what your feelings are on any issue, can't hold down a conversation. If these guys were gay, they'd be just fine... they can just hit on each other and leave you be, since they're incapable of treating you with respect. But they're not. They have a desire to be with you and no understanding of how to be with you, and they're not interested in learning how, either.

When I was growing up, like most guys I was attracted to women. And I didn't know how to approach or be with women. However, I was also not a gigantic dick to people, and therefore, even if I couldn't approach women on a romantic level, I still got to be friends. And from being friends, I heard all the dating horror stories. It was like a how-to manual for dating women, and a big list of things you Do Not Want To Do.

So I got all of that before I was ever even successful in asking anyone out on a date. But I also note that my experience is vastly different from many of your typical guys, whose experience in those formative years mostly involved being popular with the guys, and being the big man on campus with a trophy girlfriend, or the quest to get laid as soon and as often as possible.

Right there, that teaches guys that women are trophies to be acquired, and that sex is the goal, and there's little more to it than that. That creates a totally different attitude. At no point is this person thinking of a female as their friend, but as a goal. And a rather one-sided goal at that.

And don't even get me started on "nice guys", they're the worst.

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I concur with a lot of what you've said, but I'd be interested in what meets your criteria for "nice guys" that you alluded to. If by that you mean a guy who puts on an act, then that's just another layer on top of a douchebag designed to get him laid more often, it doesn't fundamentally change the person.

I'd consider myself a nice guy, but I also freely admit it hasn't gotten me much success when it comes to getting dates. Perhaps you've had experiences where some guys are better at playing the game and putting up pretenses for longer periods of time. In other words, more sophisticated douchebags, but ultimately, still douchebags.

I also don't like how it is a "game" for certain people. If there's one thing that needs sincerity, it's how we approach people to establish an intimate relationship. When this process is treated as a game, with dates and sexual encounters being kept as some kind of score, that's when you're going to end up with a lot of upset and distrusting people.

I've never been good at playing the game and I don't ever want to be. I'd like to have more confidence in approaching women but I just refuse to be insincere about it.

NippleMuncher said:

X2

Assholes are assholes, no matter how well mannered they are, how well dressed they may be, no matter how "good" or "nice" they say they are.

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+1 to this.

You can put a fancy suit and expensive cologne on a douchebag, but he's still a douchebag. Who he is doesn't change just because he is better at "playing the game". If it is still just a game to him then he's just a fancier bag of douche.

October46 said:

WOW, someone's had a bad date or dates!!!!!!!! Try not to be so negative and maybe mr right will come along!

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This is one example of many examples in this thread alone, but just in general- If a woman has issues with men, it's always her fault, not the guy's fault. It's her being negative about guys who can't even wash their crotches that causes their crotches to be nasty.

I'm also impressed by the notion that someone who is looking for someone who has the most basic understanding of reciprocation is on a quest for "Mr Right".

I haven't found Ms. Right yet, and I'm still 30 with plenty of sexual history under my belt, and none of the women I slept with smelled of pee or dressed horrendously. I think we're still talking about bare minimum standards, not some impossible goal of dating a professional model who is also a brilliant scientist and loaded with cash.

I don't get the reaction to blame the person with the criticism. Are these really unfair criticisms? That's where the double standard is.

I'm still confused about what's wrong with nice guys?

luv2cnips said:

I'm still confused about what's wrong with nice guys?

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This wasn't about nice guys, or mean guys, or guys at all.

luv2cnips said:

I'm still confused about what's wrong with nice guys?

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Nice guys or "nice guys"?

the problem with some guys who self-identify as nice guys is that they actually aren't: they're passive/aggressive, self-pitying bitchy whiners. and the problem is that they really think they are nice.

i sorta was myself when i was younger. thankfully, i got better.

ed

silverwhisper said:

the problem with some guys who self-identify as nice guys is that they actually aren't: they're passive/aggressive, self-pitying bitchy whiners. and the problem is that they really think they are nice.

i sorta was myself when i was younger. thankfully, i got better.

ed

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You sound more like you're describing the OP.

NippleMuncher said:

This wasn't about nice guys, or mean guys, or guys at all.

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NippleMuncher said:

You sound more like you're describing the OP.

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ZING!

and

ZING!

Emerson40 said:

ZING!

and

ZING!

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Well, if we're going to by hypercritical (or is it hypocritical? ), we might as well flash the mirror in all directions, no?

Don't despair guys, there is hope for us yet!