The Men Who's Wives Have No Sex Drive Support Club

I have more than my fair share of posts littering this web site about living in a sexless marriage, and won't go into them all again here. What I can say is that communicating about this issue is very difficult. The person who wants more sex feels bad for wanting more sex, and the person who doesn't want sex feels bad for not wanting it. I'm sure there are plenty of cases where one or the other person doesn't feel that way, but it was our experience. It was just our inability to communicate about it that made it seem like indifference. Making matters worse, we avoided confronting the issue by avoiding having sex. I avoided rejection by not initiating, and she avoided feeling like a failure by avoiding situations where sex might be on the table.

I can only say that in my case I was lucky that we managed to start talking about it. My wife was able to understand that I wasn't attacking her or blaming her for not wanting sex. She understood that I want it for a lot of reasons, from the intimacy that I crave with her to the pleasure that I want to have with her, and even the pure biological need for sex and physical release. The talks were impossible at first, then difficult, and then eventually became a regular part of our "how is our marriage doing" kinds of talks. We both realized that we needed to create opportunities for intimacy, both inside and outside of the bedroom. We couldn't just crawl into bed together at the end of the day and expect sex to magically happen. We had to be intimate outside of the bedroom. And yes we had to get naked, touch each other, and try to be intimate together in more ways than we could than if we just wanted to fuck.

I think that if one partner genuinely doesn't care, then the marriage is doomed. I also think that this is not the case most of the time. I think that when one person doesn't know what to do about it, they feel powerless and retreat into a shell. That is difficult to overcome, but is imperative if the marriage is going to be healthy. We each need to ask each other, "How can I meet your needs, whatever they are?" We have to understand the problem from each other's point of view, and then fight like hell *together* to keep sex alive *together*.

For us that meant that sometimes when we would make time for sex, that sex wouldn't happen. Sometimes she would just help me masturbate. That sounds pretty one sided, and physically it was. But it was an emotional connection and enabled her to feel like she was at least being a part of the solution. Sometimes she would get aroused and we could get down to the main monkey business.

Over time this process, which seemed completely unsexy and unnatural, became more natural and easier. There were times when I thought "I can't enjoy this because she isn't enjoying it". I couldn't allow myself to feel that way, because it was a kind of sabotage of the process. I had to say "I can enjoy this because it makes her feel good to know that she is participating in this very important part of our marriage".

Slowly we got to where we are now. Not perfect, but not the painful and dark abyss that we were in just a few short years ago. I wish everyone only the best in finding your personal solutions to this. I love my wife. I love our marriage. I love marriage in general, and believe that there is nothing as satisfying or rewarding as maintaining a loving relationship in spite of the challenges. I wish everyone in this "club" the best of luck in getting your spouse or SO to own the fact that the relationship takes to people working on every problem, even when they aren't feeling the need to solve the problem.

Best to everyone

susurrus, I appreciate the honest and insightful reply. I am certain my husband felt many of those things - especially the 'why even try'. He did stop trying. I suspect he felt undesirable as well. No matter what compliments or praise he gave me, I didn't feel desirable...which likely led to him feeling the same way. A sad, vicious cycle.

I don't know that my husband never sought anyone else out. I think it's unlikely, but who knows? I wasn't exactly giving him any reason not to. However he managed, I'm glad he stuck around. I'm thankful for the 'for better or worse'!

Again, I appreciate the glimpse into what he must have been thinking and feeling, although it's heartbreaking now to even think of him feeling so dejected. As great as things are now, we don't often speak of that time in our marriage. Old wounds, you know?

I truly hope that you, as well as the other posters, will benefit from your patience and faithfulness.

susurrus said:

Thanks for that, Abby. It's nice to know that there may be some tiny glimmer of hope for some of us.

To your question regarding why he stayed: To some extent, it's part of that "better or worse" clause. There aren't a lot of married men, at almost any age, who get as much sex as they'd like (the whole "what can you feed a woman that'll decrease her sex drive by half" bit). It's why it frustrates the hell out of me when all you ever hear about in the media is "Why doesn't my husband want sex anymore?"

Anyhow, some of us take the "better or worse" thing to heart. We love you, we made a commitment to be with you till the end. We know you're in there somewhere, and we know you aren't having any fun with it, either. Doesn't make it any easier to take sometimes, that helplessness, but we get that it's a part of the whole package. We endure. We don't like it, but we have less control over it than you do.

Yes, for some men, that commitment isn't enough, and they search out other avenues. It's unfortunate, but true. For the majority, I think that avenue is probably a lot more "hands on." Sometimes to the point where masturbation loses some of its thrill, maybe to the point where you just give up on even self sex. I think it then becomes a degree of depression. I know I've felt that "why even try anymore?" impulse. But without sex, marriage is pretty much just two people living in the same house with a contract between them. It's hard to feel connected to that person.

Another, personal thing I found. With my wife's lack of interest, I found myself not feeling very desirable anymore, either. I mean, she'd tell me she loved me and all that, but all it was was words. While I tried (and still do) to tell her she looked good to me and such things, I never received any inkling that I was anything much more than the guy who came home from work each night and helped walk the dogs. When I told her my problem was that she didn't want me anymore, all I got was an agreement that, no, not any more, not in that way. What the hell's a guy to do with that? I know she really wouldn't like that I was telling you all this. She'd be upset I was talking with anybody online, but fuck, there certainly isn't anybody in my real life I can talk to about it. And let's face it, a conversation through a computer screen can be more contact than we get at home.

Okay, sorry about that.

But not once did I ever consider leaving or going outside our marriage. Oh, I wrote "what if's" and that kind of bit, but never with any intention of acting on it.

And don't think that it's all a "duty" thing, though I'm sure with some guys, that's just what it turns out to be, with all the resentment and anger that can come from that. It's more complex than that. Or maybe simpler, I don't know. For me, it's more what I call "canine." Regardless of anything else, she's mine, and no matter who I talk to and no matter what silly things I may write, I'm not going anywhere.

I don't know if that answers your question, Abby, but maybe it gives a little insight - or at least one man's opinion of it. Bottom line: he stayed because he loves you and even though it was frustrating as hell for him, that one thing got him through it with you.

And it sounds like his patience and devotion paid off.

And he may not seem to "want it" as much as you do these days, but as you said, he isn't complaining, and I think that says plenty. In his shoes, you certainly wouldn't hear a peep of protest from the rest of us, either...

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Wow ... so much going on in here.

OK, so as 'the wife' in this scenario for a few years, I'm not sure that I can necessarily offer any advice, but I can talk about how things changed for me.

We were pretty much sexless for quite a few years - maybe five? Not totally - I managed to get it together a few times a year, but 'a few' = 3 or 4. I've always been extremely into sex, so it was an odd state for me to be in. However, this was also by far the longest time I'd spent with one person. I was ... well, let's say 'very friendly' when I was young, and until I met my husband, the longest monogamous relationship I had was three years. So the drop in the sex drive happened after something like 8 years of monogamy.

What changed? I started fooling around online. There's a number of reasons this could have made a difference:

• I don't think I'm a monogamous person. Possibly moving into some form of non-monogamy kicked my sex drive back into gear again.
• I was getting older, and I've never loved my body a lot. (I'm not 'fat', but I'm not a small girl, and I had ridiculous breasts that I loathed.) Possibly having someone else think of me as attractive made me feel better about myself.
• I was just getting horny chatting with this guy and the best means of dealing with that was sex with my husband.

BUT the sex I started having again was very much with my husband - I loved having sex with HIM again, and we came up with a few new things.

Obviously the non-monogamous thing is probably not generalisable (maybe?), but the not feeling attractive thing - definitely. We're all getting older in society that mythologises hot young women. Even the 'older' women who are celebrated are Angelina Jolie and Courtney Cox ... because yeah, that's totally what I look like in MY 40s. No matter how much we say we don't pay attention to the media, no matter how much you tell us we're beautiful, we're combatting that every day. If you're already feeling a bit 'meh' about sex because of hormonal shifts, that really adds to the cocktail.

Two other tangential points.
During that virtually sexless time, I told my husband a few times (a) we could have sex without me being particularly into it, because I knew that was only fair - he hadn't signed up for the total lack of sex, and he didn't deserve it. I can't remember if that happened or not (this is a while back now), but if you're wanting sex and you want it from your wife, you might need to compromise a bit on her also manifesting the porn star enthusiasm, or even any enthusiasm; and (b) he should look elsewhere. That's a risky move, but maybe it's worth saying to your wife that if she doesn't want sex, but neither of you want the marriage to finish, you might want to look elsewhere. I'd recommend a good escort or similar - that way you're not in danger of ending up in a relationship with another person (if that's not what you want). That's probably going to be difficult for your wife to get her head around ... but she didn't really enter the marriage saying 'sex for 10 years and then I'm turning the tap off'.
I'm really bemused by how many guys in here are saying 'after the hysterectomy'. I'm not from the US, but is it really that common there for women to get hysterectomies, and if so, why? I don't know ANYONE my age whose had one, and I'm turning 50 next week.

Ha I'm almost afraid to ask but, did anyone get lucky over their weekend? How was it?

A frustrating week. Valentines. Get the card. Send the flowers. Buy the dinner. And you know where it's all gonna lead... nowhere.

Someone mentioned how this impacts a mans self esteem. Certainly has
Affected me. I was on TV for a time, and magazines. I know I'm pushing 60 and the six pack abs are long gone and so is the hair but OTHER women tell me I'm still a handsome man. But I'm obviously no longer attractive to the woman I chose to be my life partner.

HighPlains.... You need to realize it's not YOU. It's most likely your wife's hormones. And if that is the case, she can't help not having a sex drive. It's like a car without gas.

Please read what I wrote a few posts up.

That is applicable to most of the situations where the wife loses her sex drive during/ after menopause.

HighPlainsDrifter said:

Ha I'm almost afraid to ask but, did anyone get lucky over their weekend? How was it?

A frustrating week. Valentines. Get the card. Send the flowers. Buy the dinner. And you know where it's all gonna lead... nowhere.

Someone mentioned how this impacts a mans self esteem. ....

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I have a comment (not a solution).

There was a pretty famous stripper in the 1950s, you can read about, even find some of her very primitive stag movies. "Candi Barr." Needless to say, she was hot and used her body.

A number of high profile gangsters had sex with her.

One of them told his friend, "She makes you feel like a real man."

So I read this, one day reading about the woman, and wondered. What exactly did she do that would make a guy say that? Basically, think of her as a high class whore. What did she give them? It was more than sex.

Respect?
Acceptance?
What?

KimGordon67 said:

I told my husband a few times (b) he should look elsewhere.

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When we were in the worst of our dry spells my wife told me that I could get sex elsewhere, but that she didn't want to know about it. The first thing that went through my head was that I didn't want a hall pass. I craved sex with my wife. Second, I felt that if I started looking for sex outside of our marriage that I would most likely start looking for the playfulness, stress relief, intimacy, mind/body connection, and everything else that went with it outside of my marriage too. I felt that taking that first step would be the first step to the end of my marriage.

There was more than a little bit of resentment at being told that my options were to live in misery or betray everything that meant the most to me. I resented that her bailing out basically put the burden of betraying our marriage on my shoulders. I have a loyal streak 10 miles wide (and wider), and our marriage together is the most precious and important thing in my life.

Thankfully we figured out that her reaction was an act of desperation. She had no idea what to do any more than I did. We managed to work through it with marriage counseling and communication.

I'm not from the US, but is it really that common there for women to get hysterectomies, and if so, why?

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I don't think it's all that common, but not incredibly uncommon either. My wife was talking to a friend of hers before the surgery, when a woman who overheard the conversation chimed in "You are going to be so glad. It's completely changed my life". Given the circumstances, that was certainly true.

In our case my wife's sex drive was flat-lined long before the "female trouble" arrived. Things were starting to get a little better when the health problems started, at which point she first developed endometriosis. She eventually had a DNC / ablation that took care of the problem for a while. Then came uterine fibroids and endless periods. She tolerated that for as long as humanly possible, and wound up severely anemic. The Dr tried to get her iron infusions, but the insurance wouldn't pay for it (they would only pay for transfusions). The Dr eventually said that there was only one option left, and scheduled an emergency hysterectomy.

Having the hysterectomy gave her sex drive a heartbeat at least. We have slowly worked up to what is really good sex about once a week to 10 days. I'm in my early 50s now and would still prefer twice a week if we could manage it. If I initiate more, she will never say no. I just try to pace things so that we can both enjoy ourselves every time.

I went back and dug up a couple of my old posts. A little cringy and hard to read for me now, but it's interesting to see my own perspective through the years.

http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=36572920&postcount=50
http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=51222422&postcount=16
http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=7352403&postcount=81

HighPlainsDrifter said:

Ha I'm almost afraid to ask but, did anyone get lucky over their weekend? How was it?

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Last night. Unfortunately, between both of us having been sick for a couple of weeks and waiting for both the kids to get home settle down it wasn't ideal. The whole "Tired, have to work in the morning, want sex anyway" drill. It was pretty late when we started. She was tired. I was jonesing pretty bad and didn't do a great job of warming her up, and then didn't last . Not my proudest moment. At that point she wanted to finish too, which was nice, and getting her there was fun so it wasn't a total loss.

I'm sure we'll do better next time.

Hearing everyone else is good, makes my frustration easier.

Very interesting hearing the other side too. Oddly I don't want to feel the way i do. In many ways I also need the emotional crutch of a relationship with somebody who finds me attractive as a man, not as a husband

OK I'm not in this club. But please let me say a couple of things.

First to say that Mr Briggs has long since seemed to me to be a very fine fellow indeed who I would really like to know in rl, enjoy his company and put my trust in his integrity as a good man. My guess is this is true of a number of posters on this thread. Please guys, don't beat yourselves up about finding some sexual solace online.

Second to tell just a little of my story at age 63, married 40 years. The difference in our sexual appetite through 30s when kids were young was tough for us both and through those years I came to the conclusion that I would never again be initiating intimacy, but only responding to her interest when she expressed it. In due time I was proved wrong, and then completely wrong in that time came when she needed me to get sexual with her for all sorts of deep reasons and she so values that.

Then in our 50s another things happened: she had three years in depression. For a year of that time we persisted with intercourse and it was a poor show. Came to the point she blurted out 'I think I'd be happy never to have sex again'. We didn't for a period of 18 months. Then came the road to recovery, long and for a long time tentative. Then intimacy that got sexual and then penetrative became part of the recovery. On our 38th anniversary we made love three times through the day, and twice is not uncommon.

And I'm saying all this to encourage you guys to put your present into the perspective of a whole life together; a life that has its various seasons including its sexual winters and springtimes and blazing summers. Things can find a new beginning, even when you are persuaded that it's never gonna be.

I love you guys. Hang on in there. Be good to your woman. More than likely she's hurting about this too.

Simon.

My wife and I both had horrible first marriages. She was physically and mentally abused while my ex just screwed everything that moved. When we got together she had a VERY difficult time with physical contact but gradually overcame her subconscious reactions to intimacy. Over the eight months we dated our sex life became very good.

For the first year or so of our marriage the sex was good and fairly frequent then there was a change. Suddenly sephe seemed to have no interest or desire and physical contact became forced. This happened about five years before any other symptoms of menopause appeared so not sure if even related.

So, it's been over ten, maybe twelve years since we made love. Once in that time she suddenly out of the blue was all over me. It was my bad luck to have a horrible head cold at the time and was trying to cough up a lung. Try getting an erection when you wheeze with every exhale. Her feelings hurt and that was that.

suckonsimon said:

OK I'm not in this club. But please let me say a couple of things.

First to say that Mr Briggs has long since seemed to me to be a very fine fellow indeed who I would really like to know in rl, enjoy his company and put my trust in his integrity as a good man. My guess is this is true of a number of posters on this thread. Please guys, don't beat yourselves up about finding some sexual solace online.

Second to tell just a little of my story at age 63, married 40 years. The difference in our sexual appetite through 30s when kids were young was tough for us both and through those years I came to the conclusion that I would never again be initiating intimacy, but only responding to her interest when she expressed it. In due time I was proved wrong, and then completely wrong in that time came when she needed me to get sexual with her for all sorts of deep reasons and she so values that.

Then in our 50s another things happened: she had three years in depression. For a year of that time we persisted with intercourse and it was a poor show. Came to the point she blurted out 'I think I'd be happy never to have sex again'. We didn't for a period of 18 months. Then came the road to recovery, long and for a long time tentative. Then intimacy that got sexual and then penetrative became part of the recovery. On our 38th anniversary we made love three times through the day, and twice is not uncommon.

And I'm saying all this to encourage you guys to put your present into the perspective of a whole life together; a life that has its various seasons including its sexual winters and springtimes and blazing summers. Things can find a new beginning, even when you are persuaded that it's never gonna be.

I love you guys. Hang on in there. Be good to your woman. More than likely she's hurting about this too.

Simon.

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Awesome post

suckonsimon said:

OK I'm not in this club. But please let me say a couple of things.

First to say that Mr Briggs has long since seemed to me to be a very fine fellow indeed who I would really like to know in rl, enjoy his company and put my trust in his integrity as a good man. My guess is this is true of a number of posters on this thread. Please guys, don't beat yourselves up about finding some sexual solace online.

Second to tell just a little of my story at age 63, married 40 years. The difference in our sexual appetite through 30s when kids were young was tough for us both and through those years I came to the conclusion that I would never again be initiating intimacy, but only responding to her interest when she expressed it. In due time I was proved wrong, and then completely wrong in that time came when she needed me to get sexual with her for all sorts of deep reasons and she so values that.

Then in our 50s another things happened: she had three years in depression. For a year of that time we persisted with intercourse and it was a poor show. Came to the point she blurted out 'I think I'd be happy never to have sex again'. We didn't for a period of 18 months. Then came the road to recovery, long and for a long time tentative. Then intimacy that got sexual and then penetrative became part of the recovery. On our 38th anniversary we made love three times through the day, and twice is not uncommon.

And I'm saying all this to encourage you guys to put your present into the perspective of a whole life together; a life that has its various seasons including its sexual winters and springtimes and blazing summers. Things can find a new beginning, even when you are persuaded that it's never gonna be.

I love you guys. Hang on in there. Be good to your woman. More than likely she's hurting about this too.

Simon.

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Thanks for this, Simon. Your perspective is very helpful. And your words of support and encouragement are greatly appreciated.

suckonsimon said:

OK I'm not in this club. But please let me say a couple of things.

First to say that Mr Briggs has long since seemed to me to be a very fine fellow indeed who I would really like to know in rl, enjoy his company and put my trust in his integrity as a good man. My guess is this is true of a number of posters on this thread. Please guys, don't beat yourselves up about finding some sexual solace online.

Second to tell just a little of my story at age 63, married 40 years. The difference in our sexual appetite through 30s when kids were young was tough for us both and through those years I came to the conclusion that I would never again be initiating intimacy, but only responding to her interest when she expressed it. In due time I was proved wrong, and then completely wrong in that time came when she needed me to get sexual with her for all sorts of deep reasons and she so values that.

Then in our 50s another things happened: she had three years in depression. For a year of that time we persisted with intercourse and it was a poor show. Came to the point she blurted out 'I think I'd be happy never to have sex again'. We didn't for a period of 18 months. Then came the road to recovery, long and for a long time tentative. Then intimacy that got sexual and then penetrative became part of the recovery. On our 38th anniversary we made love three times through the day, and twice is not uncommon.

And I'm saying all this to encourage you guys to put your present into the perspective of a whole life together; a life that has its various seasons including its sexual winters and springtimes and blazing summers. Things can find a new beginning, even when you are persuaded that it's never gonna be.

I love you guys. Hang on in there. Be good to your woman. More than likely she's hurting about this too.

Simon.

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Wow Simon. Thanks and what a post. Truly amazing and inspiring.

suckonsimon said:

OK I'm not in this club. But please let me say a couple of things.

First to say that Mr Briggs has long since seemed to me to be a very fine fellow indeed who I would really like to know in rl, enjoy his company and put my trust in his integrity as a good man. My guess is this is true of a number of posters on this thread. Please guys, don't beat yourselves up about finding some sexual solace online.

Second to tell just a little of my story at age 63, married 40 years. The difference in our sexual appetite through 30s when kids were young was tough for us both and through those years I came to the conclusion that I would never again be initiating intimacy, but only responding to her interest when she expressed it. In due time I was proved wrong, and then completely wrong in that time came when she needed me to get sexual with her for all sorts of deep reasons and she so values that.

Then in our 50s another things happened: she had three years in depression. For a year of that time we persisted with intercourse and it was a poor show. Came to the point she blurted out 'I think I'd be happy never to have sex again'. We didn't for a period of 18 months. Then came the road to recovery, long and for a long time tentative. Then intimacy that got sexual and then penetrative became part of the recovery. On our 38th anniversary we made love three times through the day, and twice is not uncommon.

And I'm saying all this to encourage you guys to put your present into the perspective of a whole life together; a life that has its various seasons including its sexual winters and springtimes and blazing summers. Things can find a new beginning, even when you are persuaded that it's never gonna be.

I love you guys. Hang on in there. Be good to your woman. More than likely she's hurting about this too.

Simon.

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nice story Simon - going through a few issues myself ( see my post ) but will hang in there - god knows it hard though! thanks

Count me in. Now nearing 60.
Sex while dating was incredible. She was insatiable. After marriage, a weekly concern. After children, a semi annual event. Now I think she believes we are too old for such philandering's.
She had a very religious upbringing and continues to have a very strong faith. I however am an agnostic.
I have often wondered how many women with Catholic upbringings fade in this way? Just a thought, not an attack.
My sympathies are will all who face this problem.

Syraz said:

She had a very religious upbringing and continues to have a very strong faith. I however am an agnostic.
I have often wondered how many women with Catholic upbringings fade in this way?

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Very valid point. My wife was brought up strict Catholic. Only recently has she begun to break away from the constraints from that time in her life.

Syraz said:

<snip>I have often wondered how many women with Catholic upbringings fade in this way? Just a thought, not an attack.
My sympathies are will all who face this problem.

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Having just posted about our sex in marriage let me chip in on this. My wife is devout. And she's studied Theology. Her [and my] spiritual tradition is Anglican [Episcopal for Americans yes?]. I guess there is a far deeper readiness to celebrate loving sex as a gift from God for its own sake, as distinct from for procreation, in Anglicanism. My wife does! My understanding is that Catholic teaching has that too, but for many it is culturally hidden under the inherited taboos.

Song of Solomon, Old Testament of the Bible. Very quaint in its imagery, but deliciously erotic/romantic.

suckonsimon said:

Having just posted about our sex in marriage let me chip in on this. My wife is devout. And she's studied Theology. Her [and my] spiritual tradition is Anglican [Episcopal for Americans yes?]. I guess there is a far deeper readiness to celebrate loving sex as a gift from God for its own sake, as distinct from for procreation, in Anglicanism. My wife does! My understanding is that Catholic teaching has that too, but for many it is culturally hidden under the inherited taboos.

Song of Solomon, Old Testament of the Bible. Very quaint in its imagery, but deliciously erotic/romantic.

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Yes, Catholic teaching is very strict. Sex for procreation only. Oral sex is immoral. A man touching another man's penis leads to doom. Women must not show their bodies. Etc., etc.

My wife and I were both brought up this way, but I never bought it. However it was years before I got the deep instincts out of my system.

My wife is still very spiritual. We go to a non-denomination church. However, we both enjoy being a little naughty now and then. We perform oral on each other. She gets high now and then. Deep down inside we both enjoy taboo and eroticism. I think she's still afraid to go 'all out', but recent events in our lives have gotten her to be more open to push the boundaries a bit

suckonsimon said:

Having just posted about our sex in marriage let me chip in on this. My wife is devout. And she's studied Theology. Her [and my] spiritual tradition is Anglican [Episcopal for Americans yes?]. I guess there is a far deeper readiness to celebrate loving sex as a gift from God for its own sake, as distinct from for procreation, in Anglicanism. My wife does! My understanding is that Catholic teaching has that too, but for many it is culturally hidden under the inherited taboos.

Song of Solomon, Old Testament of the Bible. Very quaint in its imagery, but deliciously erotic/romantic.

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I have no doubt that very many people with strong faiths have very healthy sex drives.
I remember early on in our relationship, birth control became an issue. The Catholic church believed that birth control pills were not an option. Condoms were even on the verge of unacceptability. We certainly were lucky early on. We had to take a premarital course through the church with a multitude of other couples, and discuss the proper methods....ie: pulling out, following the female cycles and other nonsense guaranteed to lead to pregnancy. My wife evolved somewhat.
Some of this may be familial. I remember in a family event years ago, my sister in law Beth, commenting on the way into the city, viewing a video store tagged "Adult Entertainment". She commented something to the fact that the term was an oxymoron, for no responsible adult would dare venture into such an establishment. I thought: "poor Jeff!" Her husband.

Catholic sex

At the risk of oversimplifying what could potentially be a long-winded post, let me summarize my experience with sex as a Catholic.

My parents are devout Catholics, and I was raised in a devout household. I attended Catholic schools for over half of my young life and went to religious education classes until I finally graduated from high school. I do not recall a single instance where I heard that sex is for procreation only or that it is somehow bad. Whenever our instructors (some nuns, some laypeople, some priests) did have a reason to talk about sex we were taught that sex is meant to be a part of a loving marriage.

I married a United Methodist, and we had a Catholic wedding. When my wife and I went through our pre-marriage class (required), we were told that sex is a gift from God that spouses give to each other, and that sex is meant for us to give pleasure to each other and meant to deepen our intimate knowledge of and relationship with each other.

I'll start a new paragraph for this key point. We were also told that we had to be open to God's will with respect to conception. This very specifically meant no barrier methods, hormonal contraception, withdrawal, etc. We could, however, refrain from having sex during the times when she was more likely to conceive and enjoy as much sex as we wanted when she was less likely to conceive (i.e. Natural Family Planning).

Over the last 22ish years of our marriage we have participated in faith based marriage support groups, both as attendees and as speakers. We regularly provide pre-marriage counselling to engaged couples on behalf of our priest. In all of the materials that he has provided for us to use to tutor couples, the message is the same. Sex is a gift from God meant to deepen our love relationship for each other, that it is a crucial part of marriage, and that we should never withhold sex without a very compelling reason (e.g. sickness).

Lastly, I have lurked around various faith based marriage boards, both Catholic and otherwise.

Through all of that I have never once heard a Catholic say that they believe that sex is "bad", "for procreation only", "restricted to missionary position", or anything else negative. There is a consistent message that we have to respect God's will with respect to procreation, but not that sex is for procreation only. Granted, the older couples that we have spoken with do speak about a time when the Church's message was procreation-focused, but those couples have also spoken very fondly about how sex brings them closer together and have spoken about their role in helping their spouse enter heaven. Driving your spouse to the limits of frustration and depression, and opening the door to possible infidelity is not compatible with the Church's teachings about sex.

It may very well be that there are Catholics out there who heard the same message that I did, and interpreted it differently than I did. I just have never found anyone who spoke of married sex with the connotations suggested here. However, I have personally had non-Catholics (both men and women) tell me about "Catholic Guilt". One woman, in front of her husband no less, said "I occasionally have to get John out of his Catholic guilt."

For all I know John told her that Catholicism had something to do with whatever it was, and maybe people who place the blame on religion were told something similar. I don't know. I can only say that I haven't personally heard a Catholic say that religion was the cause, while I have heard others say "my spouse will deny that it is". Either my interpretation is wrong or people (Catholic or not) who can't find any reason for why their spouse isn't interested in sex, kinky sex, or whatever else simply need a scapegoat. "Well it isn't anything else, so it must be because (s)he was raised as a Catholic."

I suggest instead that most of us have our own personal drive, desires, needs, and wants. A Catholic might cite "not tonight, I'm fertile" as a reason but is unlikely to say "we don't need to have sex because it's only for making babies". Again, this is only my experience and may not reflect reality, but the latter seems to be nothing more than a rationalization given to answer the question "why not?" when a spouse has no interest in sex. The "real" reason could be anything that the rest of the people on the planet experience. Those people just don't have religion as an easy one size fits all answer.

It won't escape most of you that I have posted about my experiences with pre-marital sex, birth control, agnosticism, and so on. I don't claim to be perfect, much less a particularly good Catholic. There are a lot of things that I believe that the Church gets wrong. I simply feel that people often place the blame on religion without really ever understanding what the truth might be.

You bring up a couple of good talking points, Syraz.

Syraz said:

Condoms were even on the verge of unacceptability. We certainly were lucky early on. We had to take a premarital course through the church with a multitude of other couples, and discuss the proper methods....ie: pulling out, following the female cycles and other nonsense guaranteed to lead to pregnancy.

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From everything that I have ever read or been told, condoms have never been acceptable. Pulling out has also never been acceptable. It sounds like you were given bad information. FWIW I have done both, but then again I don't consider myself to be devout by any stretch. People who practice Natural Family Planning might argue that it's not nonsense. We never tried it.

Some of this may be familial. I remember in a family event years ago, my sister in law Beth, commenting on the way into the city, viewing a video store tagged "Adult Entertainment". She commented something to the fact that the term was an oxymoron, for no responsible adult would dare venture into such an establishment. I thought: "poor Jeff!" Her husband.

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It would be enlightening to know if you asked her why she felt that way. Many people don't like porn because they feel that it degrades and exploits women. I'm sure that some Catholics might feel that it is because sex sacred and reserved for the marriage bed. Neither of those cases would imply that her sister doesn't like sex - only that she doesn't approve of adult video stores.

These are great discussions

Yes, society has a lot to do with it. Family upbringing. Religion. Personal morals.
Sex in a relationship is extremely important and couples rarely talk enough about it. We accept barriers that need not be there. My wife has been surprised at some of the things I told her turn me on. I also understand her a lot better than I did when we met almost 30 years ago. We've had times with fantastic passionate sex, we've had long periods with no sex. We're still searching for the perfect mix. Openness and honesty has helped, but that can be scary and difficult too.

There are wives who won't go near porn or a sex toy. There are others who use them regularly. There's no right or wrong - just personal preference.

There are men who don't have a clue what their wives want. And vice versa. I know for years my wife and I both had trouble being open about or needs because we were afraid of rejection. Well, if you can't tell your husband you would like a 9" dildo who can you tell????

Hey, sometimes a little wine or a margarita or some smoke can lessen the inhibitions but you have to be willing to try that too!