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AllardChardon said:
Thanks, Handley and Naoko, for the education on the usage of those words.

perfect flower - noun a monoclinous flower

Anyone know of an example of the above entry?
Click to expand...

A perfect flower contains both male and female reproductive parts. If a perfect flower has petals and sepals, it is also then a complete flower.

Examples of perfect flowers include:

Roses
Olives (also has staminate flowers)
Apples
Cherries
Nectarines

Also Known As: Bisexual, monoclinous, hermaphrodite and synoecious
 
Handley_Page said:
...

Pukka; the real deal, universally accepted as such.
Click to expand...

My understanding of a Pukka Sahib is that you could recognise one, but if you weren't one, you couldn't become one.

It is part of Noblesse Oblige - an attitude of inherent superiority with a real concern and care for those working for you. If a manager could treat their work colleagues as human beings with concerns and aspirations, co-workers for the enterprise who can add value and should be appreciated for their work, then that manager might be a Pukka Sahib.

The best military officers are/were Pukka Sahibs. In WW2 Eisenhower, Montgomery and Rommel were Pukka Sahibs. Patton was not.
 
Og and Handley are both pukka although not fusty enough to be sahibs ;).

Pelerine - a woman’s cape of lace or silk with pointed ends at the centre front, popular in the 19th century.

Derives from the French word for 'pilgrim'. :)
 
Thank you, Handley, for the explanation of the perfect flower, which is infinitely easier to define than the perfect woman. LOL

Og, from what I've learned of Patton, he wouldn't have given a damn if he was a Pukka Sahib or not, but I do appreciate the difference you pointed out so clearly.

Naoko, that is a great word, thanks for finding it.

perennate - vi to lie over from season to season
 
Pentateuchal-adj. Of or relating to the first five books of Hebrew and Christian Scriptures.
(Not news to many people, probably, but to "heathens" like me...
 
Pelt

Pelt, to rage. 'A pelting storm' is therefore a raging storm. To pelt with stones, is, if this derivation be correct, to 'rage,' or show rage, by throwing stones.

Poor houseless wretches, wheresoe'er ye be,
That bide the pelting of this pitiless storm.
—Shakspear: King Lear
_________________

Source: Lost Beauties of the English Language, Charles Mackay, LL.D. (Originally published—by an unknown publisher—in 1874, reissued by Bibliophile Books, London, 1987.)

Before anyone complains, I hasten to note that "Shakspear" is Mackay's spelling—not mine.

And let me call attention to Mackay's use of the verb of ' to be' in the subjunctive, which is now a rarely used form, in his definition.

Evidently, he had some doubts about the correctness of rage for pelt. It is certainly at odds with what modern dictionaries say.
 
Perennate, I love that definition somehow. To lie over from season to season. There seems to be a story in it. May/December maybe.

And pentateuchal, suitably mystic sounding.

Pelt, there are some people I'd like to pelt at the moment! Luckily I learned irony. I smile and say 'that'll do nicely', while secretly kicking Schrodinger's cat.


Pelago - deep sea, open sea.
 
Good day, everyone. I can't believe it is Friday already. I hope you have a lovely weekend.

peregrinate - vi to travel esp. on foot: WALK ~ vt to walk or travel over: TRAVERSE

peregrine(1) - adj having a tendency to wander

peregrine(2) - noun a swift nearly cosmopolitan falcon much used in falconry
 
I just found this on yahoo news and simply had to share it;

11 words coined by Charles Dickens
By Angela Tung | The Week

Charles Dickens has been credited with the coining of dozens of words. While some of these words have been antedated — for example, an earlier citation of boredom, long credited to Dickens, has been found — there's no denying the author's role popularizing words that may have disappeared into obscurity. Here are 11 of our favorites:

1. abuzz
Dickens was one of the first authors to use abuzz, "characterized by excessive gossip or activity." Another "early adopter" of the word was George Eliot, who used it in her 1859 novel, Adam Bede: "I hate the sound of women's voices; they're always either a-buzz or a-squeak."

Example: "The court was all astir and a-buzz, when the black sheep — whom many fell away from in dread — pressed him into an obscure corner among the crowd."
— Charles Dickens, A Tale of Two Cities, 1859

2. creeps, the
You may be surprised to know the modern-sound phrase, the creeps, "a feeling of fear and revulsion," was coined by Dickens. He may have been influenced by the sense creepy, "chilled and crawling, as with horror or fear," which originated around 1831.

Example: "She was constantly complaining of the cold, and of its occasioning a visitation in her back which she called 'the creeps'."
— Charles Dickens, David Copperfield, 1850

3. devil-may-care
Devil-may-care, meaning "reckless; careless," or "jovial and rakish in manner," seems to come from the saying, "The devil may care but I don't."

Example: "Not that this would have worried him much, anyway — he was a mighty free and easy, roving, devil-may-care sort of person, was my uncle, gentlemen."
— Charles Dickens, The Pickwick Papers, 1837

4. flummox
To flummox means "to confuse; perplex." The origin is probably an English dialectal word which Dickens brought back into popularity. According to the Oxford English Dictionary (OED), the formation of the word "seems to be onomatopoeic, expressive of the notion of throwing down roughly and untidily; compare flump, hummock, dialect slommock sloven."

Example: "And my 'pinion is, Sammy, that if your governor don't prove a alleybi, he'll be what the Italians call reg'larly flummoxed, and that's all about it."
— Charles Dickens, The Pickwick Papers, 1837

5. gonoph
Gonoph is slang for a pickpocket or thief. The word comes from gannabh, the Hebrew word for "thief." Dickens's seems to be the earliest recorded usage of the word in English.

Example: "He's as obstinate a young gonoph as I know."
— Charles Dickens, Bleak House, 1853

6. gorm
Gorm is "a vulgar substitute for (God) damn," according to the OED. In the television show Firefly, gorram is a common expletive, presumably a corruption of goddamn. Whether or not the show's creators were influenced by Dickens is unknown.

Example: "It appeared, in answer to my inquiries, that nobody had the least idea of the etymology of this terrible verb passive to be gormed; but that they all regarded it as constituting a most solemn imprecation."
— Charles Dickens, David Copperfield, 1850

7. lummy
Lummy is slang for "knowing; cute," or "first-rate," and probably comes from lumme, a corruption of "(Lord) love me," according to the OED. Lummy is another Dickens-coined word that has fallen into obscurity, though we would like to see it make a comeback.

Example: "To think of Jack Dawkins — lummy Jack — the Dodger — the Artful Dodger — going abroad for a common twopenny-halfpenny sneeze-box!"
— Charles Dickens, Oliver Twist, 1839

8. on the rampage
The phrase on the rampage comes from the earlier verb form of rampage,"to act or move in a ramping manner; spring or rush violently; rage or storm about." The word rampage may come from ramp, "to rise for a leap or in leaping, as a wild beast; rear or spring up; prepare for or make a spring; jump violently."

Example: "When I got home at night, and delivered this message for Joe, my sister 'wenton the Rampage,' in a more alarming degree than at any previous period."
— Charles Dickens, Great Expectations, 1860

9. red tapeworm
A red tapeworm is, according to the OED, "a person who adheres excessively to official rules and formalities." The phrase plays off red tape and tapeworm, and was coined by Dickens in Household Words, a weekly magazine he edited. Red tape, slang for "the collection or sequence of forms and procedures required to gain bureaucratic approval for something, especially when oppressively complex and time-consuming," comes from the English practice of using red or pink tape to tie official documents. The figurative sense arose around 1736, says the OED. A tapeworm is a ribbonlike parasite. Some call a phrase like red tapeworm a sweet tooth fairy, "three words where the first and second form a known expression and the second and third form a known expression and all three together make a credible expression."

Example: "If in any convenient part of the United Kingdom, (we suggest the capital as the centre of resort,) a similar museum could be established, for the destruction and exhibition of the Red-Tape-Worms with which the British Public are so sorely afflicted, there can be no doubt that it would be, at once, a vast national benefit, and a curious national spectacle."
— Charles Dickens, Household Words, 1851

10. sawbones
Sawbones is slang for a surgeon or doctor. Before the advent of anesthesia in 1846, speed was of the essence for surgeons. With a saw like the one pictured in this article, Victorian physicians could amputate a leg in half a minute.

Example: "'What! Don't you know what a sawbones is, sir?' inquired Mr. Weller. 'I thought everybody know'd as a sawbones was a surgeon.'"
— Charles Dickens, The Pickwick Papers, 1837

11. whiz-bang
Whiz-bang in this example means something "very rapid and eventful; rushed," and is imitative of something that moves quickly, or whizzes, and perhaps lands with a bang. During World War I, whiz-bang came to refer to "the shell of a small-calibre high-velocity German gun, so called from the noise it made," according to the OED. By 1916, the term referred to "a resounding success," and in 1960, a type of firecracker.

Example: "'Present! think I was; fired a musket — fired with an idea — rushed into wine shop — wrote it down — back again — whiz, bang — another idea — wine shop again — pen and ink — back again — cut and slash — noble time, Sir. Sportsman, sir?' abruptly turning to Mr. Winkle."
— Charles Dickens, The Pickwick Papers, 1836
 
AllardChardon said:
I just found this on yahoo news and simply had to share it;

11 words coined by Charles Dickens
By Angela Tung | The Week

Charles Dickens has been credited with the coining of dozens of words. While some of these words have been antedated — for example, an earlier citation of boredom, long credited to Dickens, has been found — there's no denying the author's role popularizing words that may have disappeared into obscurity. Here are 11 of our favorites:

1. abuzz
Dickens was one of the first authors to use abuzz, "characterized by excessive gossip or activity." Another "early adopter" of the word was George Eliot, who used it in her 1859 novel, Adam Bede: "I hate the sound of women's voices; they're always either a-buzz or a-squeak."

Example: "The court was all astir and a-buzz, when the black sheep — whom many fell away from in dread — pressed him into an obscure corner among the crowd."
— Charles Dickens, A Tale of Two Cities, 1859

2. creeps, the
You may be surprised to know the modern-sound phrase, the creeps, "a feeling of fear and revulsion," was coined by Dickens. He may have been influenced by the sense creepy, "chilled and crawling, as with horror or fear," which originated around 1831.

Example: "She was constantly complaining of the cold, and of its occasioning a visitation in her back which she called 'the creeps'."
— Charles Dickens, David Copperfield, 1850

3. devil-may-care
Devil-may-care, meaning "reckless; careless," or "jovial and rakish in manner," seems to come from the saying, "The devil may care but I don't."

Example: "Not that this would have worried him much, anyway — he was a mighty free and easy, roving, devil-may-care sort of person, was my uncle, gentlemen."
— Charles Dickens, The Pickwick Papers, 1837

4. flummox
To flummox means "to confuse; perplex." The origin is probably an English dialectal word which Dickens brought back into popularity. According to the Oxford English Dictionary (OED), the formation of the word "seems to be onomatopoeic, expressive of the notion of throwing down roughly and untidily; compare flump, hummock, dialect slommock sloven."

Example: "And my 'pinion is, Sammy, that if your governor don't prove a alleybi, he'll be what the Italians call reg'larly flummoxed, and that's all about it."
— Charles Dickens, The Pickwick Papers, 1837

5. gonoph
Gonoph is slang for a pickpocket or thief. The word comes from gannabh, the Hebrew word for "thief." Dickens's seems to be the earliest recorded usage of the word in English.

Example: "He's as obstinate a young gonoph as I know."
— Charles Dickens, Bleak House, 1853

6. gorm
Gorm is "a vulgar substitute for (God) damn," according to the OED. In the television show Firefly, gorram is a common expletive, presumably a corruption of goddamn. Whether or not the show's creators were influenced by Dickens is unknown.

Example: "It appeared, in answer to my inquiries, that nobody had the least idea of the etymology of this terrible verb passive to be gormed; but that they all regarded it as constituting a most solemn imprecation."
— Charles Dickens, David Copperfield, 1850

7. lummy
Lummy is slang for "knowing; cute," or "first-rate," and probably comes from lumme, a corruption of "(Lord) love me," according to the OED. Lummy is another Dickens-coined word that has fallen into obscurity, though we would like to see it make a comeback.

Example: "To think of Jack Dawkins — lummy Jack — the Dodger — the Artful Dodger — going abroad for a common twopenny-halfpenny sneeze-box!"
— Charles Dickens, Oliver Twist, 1839

8. on the rampage
The phrase on the rampage comes from the earlier verb form of rampage,"to act or move in a ramping manner; spring or rush violently; rage or storm about." The word rampage may come from ramp, "to rise for a leap or in leaping, as a wild beast; rear or spring up; prepare for or make a spring; jump violently."

Example: "When I got home at night, and delivered this message for Joe, my sister 'wenton the Rampage,' in a more alarming degree than at any previous period."
— Charles Dickens, Great Expectations, 1860

9. red tapeworm
A red tapeworm is, according to the OED, "a person who adheres excessively to official rules and formalities." The phrase plays off red tape and tapeworm, and was coined by Dickens in Household Words, a weekly magazine he edited. Red tape, slang for "the collection or sequence of forms and procedures required to gain bureaucratic approval for something, especially when oppressively complex and time-consuming," comes from the English practice of using red or pink tape to tie official documents. The figurative sense arose around 1736, says the OED. A tapeworm is a ribbonlike parasite. Some call a phrase like red tapeworm a sweet tooth fairy, "three words where the first and second form a known expression and the second and third form a known expression and all three together make a credible expression."

Example: "If in any convenient part of the United Kingdom, (we suggest the capital as the centre of resort,) a similar museum could be established, for the destruction and exhibition of the Red-Tape-Worms with which the British Public are so sorely afflicted, there can be no doubt that it would be, at once, a vast national benefit, and a curious national spectacle."
— Charles Dickens, Household Words, 1851

10. sawbones
Sawbones is slang for a surgeon or doctor. Before the advent of anesthesia in 1846, speed was of the essence for surgeons. With a saw like the one pictured in this article, Victorian physicians could amputate a leg in half a minute.

Example: "'What! Don't you know what a sawbones is, sir?' inquired Mr. Weller. 'I thought everybody know'd as a sawbones was a surgeon.'"
— Charles Dickens, The Pickwick Papers, 1837

11. whiz-bang
Whiz-bang in this example means something "very rapid and eventful; rushed," and is imitative of something that moves quickly, or whizzes, and perhaps lands with a bang. During World War I, whiz-bang came to refer to "the shell of a small-calibre high-velocity German gun, so called from the noise it made," according to the OED. By 1916, the term referred to "a resounding success," and in 1960, a type of firecracker.

Example: "'Present! think I was; fired a musket — fired with an idea — rushed into wine shop — wrote it down — back again — whiz, bang — another idea — wine shop again — pen and ink — back again — cut and slash — noble time, Sir. Sportsman, sir?' abruptly turning to Mr. Winkle."
— Charles Dickens, The Pickwick Papers, 1836
Click to expand...

I knew that old Charley had coined "flummox," "sawbones," and "on the rampage" but somehow, I had always assumed that "gonoph" was a Yiddish word. I never would have guessed that it and "red tapeworm" were Dickensian. Thanks for sharing.

BTW, according to the Net article “IQ Scores of Famous People” (Newstrick, April 20, 2012), Charles Dickens” IQ is estimated to have been 180—nearly double the 91 points needed to squeak into the “normal” range. He even beat Albert Einstein and Stephen Hawking, who tied at 160 IQ points.
 
Thanks Edward, I thought it was fun and I learned something in the process, which I truly love.

perdurable - adj very durable
 
AllardChardon said:
Thanks Edward, I thought it was fun and I learned something in the process, which I truly love.

perdurable - adj very durable
Click to expand...

Porphyry and granite are perdurable stones for sculpture but are very hard to work.

There is a porphyry statue of the Tetrarchs (the four Emperors of the late Roman Empire) on a corner of the Piazza San Marco in Venice. It has withstood the neglect of centuries in the open air.

pd1964815.jpg


We have an example of a granite sculpture as public art in my town. It was intended to be a complete Turk's Head Knot but the artist couldn't complete it. It is now a Turk's Head Knot emerging from a solid block of granite and is probably more effective like that. The artist underestimated the sheer difficulty of working granite, which she had never attempted before. To produce the sculpture in the state it is now took her three times as long as she had thought and broke several electric drills, and used five times as many bits as she had considered necessary.

But it is immune to skateboards, BMX bikes and the local vandals. It is certainly perdurable.
 
Last edited:
EdwardMidweston said:
BTW, according to the Net article “IQ Scores of Famous People” (Newstrick, April 20, 2012), Charles Dickens” IQ is estimated to have been 180—nearly double the 91 points needed to squeak into the “normal” range. He even beat Albert Einstein and Stephen Hawking, who tied at 160 IQ points.
Click to expand...

I've always been dubious about these IQ ratings for historical figures who never sat an IQ test. They seem to have been estimated by Catharine Cox, back in 1926; although I haven't seen her methods, I have to assume a LOT of guesswork went into the process.

Pedant mode on:

- An IQ score recorded/estimated in 1926 (when Cox last updated her estimates) isn't directly comparable to a score recorded/estimated in 2013, because the difficulty of tests shifts over time (cf the Flynn effect). Depending on how you adjust for the Flynn effect, a score of 180 achieved in 1926 might be roughly equivalent to 153 measured today - although it's hard to be accurate about this.

- It's not meaningful to talk about an IQ of 180 being "double" a score of 90, because it's not a ratio scale.
 
Bramblethorn said:
I've always been dubious about these IQ ratings for historical figures who never sat an IQ test. ...
Click to expand...

I've always been dubious about IQ tests, period.

So many of them are based on the cultural norms of the testers, and not of those being tested. Attempts have been made to make IQ tests less dependent on preconceptions of the test devisors, but even so the statistical variations can be so large as to be meaningless except to rank exceptionally high and low individuals in a small group. That small group could probably identify the exceptional ones by themselves.

The majority of those tested will be in the mid range, and a difference of one or two points between them is insignificant.
 
oggbashan said:
I've always been dubious about IQ tests, period.
Click to expand...

Just so.

Bramblethorn said, "I've always been dubious about these IQ ratings for historical figures..."

I think he'd be wiser just to put his period at the end of the word "ratings," and end his post there.
 
My psychology teacher in college was very suspicious of IQ tests because of who the original tests were "normed on." Rural kids in America did worse, because the tests were normed on urban children. When the test was redone with rural information, the urbans kids were at a loss. Therefore, I have never trusted tests, and due to being a young adult in the 60s, I don't trust military industrial complexes, aka governments.

perdu or perdue(1) - adj remaining out of sight: CONCEALED

perdu or perdue(2) - noun obsolete a soldier assigned to extremely hazardous duty
 
AllardChardon said:
My psychology teacher in college was very suspicious of IQ tests because of who the original tests were "normed on." Rural kids in America did worse, because the tests were normed on urban children. When the test was redone with rural information, the urbans kids were at a loss. Therefore, I have never trusted tests, and due to being a young adult in the 60s, I don't trust military industrial complexes, aka governments.

perdu or perdue(1) - adj remaining out of sight: CONCEALED

perdu or perdue(2) - noun obsolete a soldier assigned to extremely hazardous duty
Click to expand...

The second meaning is, perhaps more properly, attached to the French phrase enfant perdu, usually used in the plural, enfants perdus, or "lost children". (But, this being French, both forms have the same pronunciation.) In the days of muzzle-loaders, the term was coined to refer to the body of men who spearheaded an attack---most of whom, it could be expected, would not survive.

The noun enfant is masculine, even when the child referred to is female. Thus, the feminine forms perdue(s) would not be used with it.

As far as the word "child" is concerned, notice the "infant" in "infantry". That child isn't there by accident...
 
Thank you, Carlus, for that great explanation of perdu in military terms. We discussed infantry earlier on this thread.

perdition - noun 1.a. archaic: utter destruction b. obsolete: LOSS 2.a. eternal damnation b. HELL
 
Pleonasm

Greek

A pleonasm, quite distinct from 'redundancy.'

When we say, casually, " .. it's a redundancy,"
'it's a pleonasm' is more accurate.

A redundancy is calling for three fire engines,
five patrol cars and Ems for a trash can fire.

I have it that 'pleonasm' is more definitive for
words, 'redundancy' for 'what is the case in the
world (Wittgenstein).

H
 
Welcome Henchman999 and a belated welcome to Bramblethorn. I have been consumed with research lately.

perdie - var of pardie

pardie or pardi or pardy - interjection archaic (French par De' by God) a mild oath
 
Should we yet find ourselves at the 'P,'
I would behave myself by abandoning
the impulse to mention your 'pose,' the
lean, anything but 'lean.'

H.
 
AllardChardon said:
Welcome Henchman999 and a belated welcome to Bramblethorn. I have been consumed with research lately.

perdie - var of pardie

pardie or pardi or pardy - interjection archaic (French par De' by God) a mild oath
Click to expand...

And the French had the cheek to call English soldiers in the Hundred Years War "Goddams" because the English swore so much.
 
Henchman999 said:
Greek

A pleonasm, quite distinct from 'redundancy.'

When we say, casually, " .. it's a redundancy,"
'it's a pleonasm' is more accurate.

A redundancy is calling for three fire engines,
five patrol cars and Ems for a trash can fire.

I have it that 'pleonasm' is more definitive for
words, 'redundancy' for 'what is the case in the
world (Wittgenstein).

H
Click to expand...

pleonasm - noun, the use of more words than are necessary to convey meaning (e.g. see with one's eyes) either as a fault of style or for emphasis.

I would have described that number of emergency vehicles as a plethora, an over-reaction, a waste of resources and manpower, an indication of overmanning but I might be committing a pleonasm.
 
I thought PLETHORA means 'an over abundance', a surfeit.

The thought struck me the other day.
If we took all the real Greek and Latin words (plethora is a good example), I wonder how much of our language would be left and would we have to invent words to replace them?
 
AllardChardon said:
Thank you, Carlus, for that great explanation of perdu in military terms. We discussed infantry earlier on this thread.

perdition - noun 1.a. archaic: utter destruction b. obsolete: LOSS 2.a. eternal damnation b. HELL
Click to expand...

Perdition is from the same root as perdre, of which perdu, of recent memory, is a form. They come from the Latin verb perdere, which means to destroy, ruin, squander, waste, or lose.
 
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