Limits - Hard, Soft, None

Wild_Honey_66 said:

Last question: current hard limits: animals, blood, poop, humiliation, degradation, pain, teasing, tickling, forced orgasms or orgasm denial, being deprived of approval and affection, being ignored, abandoned, or given away.

More answers later.

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For me? All of these and more...

cookiecat said:

There needs to be a doormat thread. I'm in that doormat boat with you. It's something I embrace; I don't see it as a negative. The term gets such a bad rap!!

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Miles Long said:

Funny you should mention that! I've been kicking around the idea of starting a thread called "In Praise of Doormats". I agree it gets a bad rap, and I think very often unfairly so. I know a lot of people in the local scene who embrace being a doormat and lead happy lives because of it.

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I'd follow the thread with interest.

cookiecat said:

The "i have no limits" comment is, I think, a huge newbie mistake. I dated someone who - as a new Dom - took the sub's 'no limit" statement way too far and they both got seriously hurt. No broken bones or hospital visits but it was traumatic for both of them.

It's interesting to me, Nezhul, you list cheating as a hard limit. I would figure that's a given in any relationship. But you're right, it's not!

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FWIW, "cheating" is a hard limit to me also, but I think in any relationship and especially in BDSM, it's important to discuss what people consider cheating, because not everybody has the same standards. (Is it cheating to spank somebody else? Does cybering count? Different people have very different expectations about such things.)

Once upon a time, early in a relationship, my new girlfriend had a moment of weakness and ended up sleeping with her ex; she owned up a day later. I was very mildly disappointed, roughly on the level of "you were meant to pick up the groceries and you forgot", but although at that stage we hadn't discussed polyamory, I really wasn't that bothered by it. If she'd tried to lie about it afterwards, that would've been a very different matter; I find it almost impossible to forgive lies or knowingly breaking promises; that is my main category of "cheating".

cookiecat said:

I hope you do have that kind of trust in someone again!!

That trust is important to be able to say that to someone.



This is really interesting - the idea of introducing something uncomfortable but you want to experience by doing it in subspace.

Thanks for mentioning the consent part - always a good reminder, especially in this frame of mind.

Did you experience any weird feelings when you weren't in subspace anymore? Any regret or anxiety?

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First off, thank you for reading what I wrote and including me in the conversation. I think a lot of what Lillis and WildHoney said also sit 100% with me, I actually relate completely to what Lilli wrote about being dangerous. I think this is where I was going internally with the comment about not finding that level of trust again. My problem is that I'd known him 15 years... to say we have no secrets is an understatement. It isn't about mind reading, it's just that he really does "get" me". The problem is that he doesn't WANT to push me at all, because he understands my tendencies to want to please to the exclusion of my own well being, he is overly cautious.
I definitely agree with "withholding love and affection" needs to be added to my limits though with the caveat that I'm talking on a regular basis long term. It is a very very effective tool for punishment for me. This is where I'm still questioning if I'm an emotional massochist or not. I've no answers.




Second part: introduction of activities that would get me anxious while in subspace after consent is given prior to play:
It was a concept that came about with a previous partner. He had been in the lifestyle for over 30 years and really understood how I ticked. We did not have the extensive trust built up but I had a lot of trust in the fact that he wanted to keep me around and thus reeeallyyy wouldn't do anything that would hurt me. He also wasn't afraid to push me, which was a plus.
He happened upon a few of my triggers or vehicles to dropping me into subspace pretty quickly ( I still marvel at that) and afterward brought me back round to talk about it. I was aware from the first time that my perception is highly altered. Highly. It was a couple sessions after that that he introduced an activity that I had expressed interest in, but anxiety over while in that state. The experience of it was exhilarating to put it mildly, euphoric to pit it accurately. Probably aided by the fact he was very vocal in his praise at that point which I was consciously aware of. When I came out of it the only thing was I definitely experienced drop. I needed him THERE I needed reassurance. I needed to be held and I needed to know all was well. That was when it was something I had **interest** in.
We also used this method when it was something HE had interest in, I didn't really, but was absolutely willing to do to please him. The positive euphoria and super charged sensation tend to aid in creating positive associations, so after 2-3 times doing the activity that way and I'd made the positive association that would effect me outside of subspace.
Basically, conditioning on speed. ( never done drugs, but I think that's an appropriate comparison).

No, I never had any sense of regret that could be linked to that. I tend to over think and over analyze. I do need a LOT of reassurance, so him checking in over coming days and saying something like "you pleased me" "you made me happy" etc worked wonders. I also used a journal to write down the comments I remembered at the time so I could look back and read them ( most are dirtier than I'd write in public ... Lady in public not so much in private) but I'd go back and read them if I was feeling insecure.

cookiecat said:

I'm curious about your limits. Do you have any!? Have you ever told someone you don't? Have your limits changed over time? When you meet in someone new, do you negotiate / discuss these limits? If you're in a relationship, how do you approach new ways to play in terms of addressing limits?

Eliminating the "standard" 3 - minors, death, permanent damage - what are your limits?

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(Cont.)

*Do I have any limits? Yes.
*Have I ever told someone I don't? No.
*Have my limits changed over time? Yes.

*When I meet someone new, do I negotiate/discuss my limits? If we get that far, yes, but not all at once. It seems to work out nicely to address them each as they come up in conversation.

*Addressing limits in an existing relationship? When a new kink/fetish/fantasy comes up, we talk back and forth until we find enough common ground to proceed. If I know I have limits i will share them, but many times I don't know what they are. In those cases, we focus on finding a starting point and take it slowly. I'm fortunate to have friends who are attentive, considerate, patient, and responsive. It's much easier for me to take chances and push my comfort zone when I am confident that my partner will stop and check with me if he feels I'm not into whatever we're doing.

Soft/medium limits are partner-specific, and often expand over the course of the friendship. There are usually things that I want with one partner but don't with anyone else. Things have a tendency to work themselves out naturally in that regard, as everyone has different preferences, and that's nice. This may sound weird, but I don't like a lot of overlap between partners. I guess that's a limit that I hadn't spent a lot of time thinking about.

I have ONE Daddy. That's a hard limit. I don't do one-offs, or man whores. I used to get pretty frisky on the threads, but I don't anymore. I don't get close to anyone who's likely to share my name with his other partners, I like my privacy.

One of the biggest mistakes I've made as a pleaser is agreeing to play a dominant role with someone to whom I really wanted to submit. In one case we talked about this in the very beginning and so had at least some idea that it might not work the other way. In the other case I didn't bring it up, ever, and spent too long after it ended wishing I had.

Hard limits - some of mine are really weirdly wussy:
- name calling - I really hate being called things like 'slut' etc, and I'll pretty much immediately lose my figurative hard on and just want a cup of tea.
- cum on the face.
- being gagged - as in not able to talk (not the 'choking' sort of gagging). The idea of not being able to speak completely and utterly freaks me out.

I recently met a guy online and we were getting on famously, and we met in person, and seemed to continue to get on famously. We had a fair bit of phone sex, and I knew he was into the bruisy sort of sex ... and he knew I was too. We were arranging to meet again, and I suggested that we should have a drink and set out some ground rules ... I got a one word text back: 'Rules?', to which I responded 'yeah, everyone has limits'.
That was pretty much the last I heard of him. I guess one of his hard limits was talking about limits?

seela said:

I'd follow the thread with interest.

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Me too.

KimGordon67 said:

Hard limits - some of mine are really weirdly wussy:
- name calling - I really hate being called things like 'slut' etc, and I'll pretty much immediately lose my figurative hard on and just want a cup of tea.
- cum on the face.
- being gagged - as in not able to talk (not the 'choking' sort of gagging). The idea of not being able to speak completely and utterly freaks me out.

I recently met a guy online and we were getting on famously, and we met in person, and seemed to continue to get on famously. We had a fair bit of phone sex, and I knew he was into the bruisy sort of sex ... and he knew I was too. We were arranging to meet again, and I suggested that we should have a drink and set out some ground rules ... I got a one word text back: 'Rules?', to which I responded 'yeah, everyone has limits'.
That was pretty much the last I heard of him. I guess one of his hard limits was talking about limits?

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You are anything but a wuss.


Oh. I also forgot to add animals and incest. Didn’t think I had to, but I see a few people mentioning animals. So.

Farawyn said:

You are anything but a wuss.


Oh. I also forgot to add animals and incest. Didn’t think I had to, but I see a few people mentioning animals. So.

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Wild_Honey_66 said:

((lilli))

One of the biggest mistakes I've made as a pleaser is agreeing to play a dominant role with someone to whom I really wanted to submit. In one case we talked about this in the very beginning and so had at least some idea that it might not work the other way. In the other case I didn't bring it up, ever, and spent too long after it ended wishing I had.

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I made that mistake once too.

I never thought of that. I would hate it. It would definitely bring me out of my comfort zone. And of course, I would try my best.

In my marriage I was basically, not Domme, because our relationship wasn’t like that, but in charge.
If I didn’t initiate, we didn’t fuck.

I also find it interesting that Doms have not really replied here, with limits, outside of Nez.

Why do we put up with this shit for so long?

Hard: scat, blood, permanent marks or harm, needles (I can’t even get shots without passing out)

That’s all I can think of for now but I’m sure there are more

Soft: groups, public, sharing
Those are all trust things

... I...am living this right now. ... I always vow I won't ask I won't break but then I'm right back to begging within 3 months. I hope I wouldn't make the same relationship mistakes again... but there are no guarantees.

cookiecat said:

I'm curious about your limits. Do you have any!? Have you ever told someone you don't? Have your limits changed over time? When you meet someone new, do you negotiate / discuss these limits? If you're in a relationship, how do you approach new ways to play in terms of addressing limits?

Eliminating the "standard" 3 - minors, death, permanent damage - what are your limits?

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Yes, since I am married and this is very new to us both, I am just now discovering what both our limits are and what we want to do together. I would for sure want to negotiate with anyone, we ever chose to be with as a couple. Discussion is always going to happen period or we don't play with others. Being in a committed married relationship means we approach each other in honest talk and no lies are to be told when addressing limits to our kink play together. For sure my limits for myself are any kind of lasting mark as we can not have that with our family and his work. I would also think anything with humiliation or degrading talk to me as a very hard limit. I know for him he does not like to be tickled or bit or spanked at all those are extremely hard limits for him, I honor that. For myself it also goes to say no blood play or any kind of sharp or blunt toy that could brake the skin. For play with others it would be no kissing if possible its to intimate for us to watch. I never want to be ever to be left out of the actual sharing play process in any scene we are with others with. I had a single bad experience and I do not want that ever repeated. I am sure there is a ton more but, since we are just beginning our journey it all goes in my mind on a basis situation. I am a big person on respect and having safe and consensual sex with not only my husband but anyone we choose to be with in our future.

cookiecat said:

... If you're in a relationship, how do you approach new ways to play in terms of addressing limits?

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Open a bottle of wine, share a sofa, bring out a huge list of every conceivable activity and start going through it together. As you read you take a sip of wine anytime you quite like the idea of something that's read out. The larger the sip, the greater the enthusiasm.

Hopefully you won't get anywhere near the end of the list

Cookie, you asked about electricity.
I’m not scared, really. He knows what he’s doing.

There is a background fear I could get burned.

But I mostly don’t want it because it’s not as close. Using something else besides him to cum. I want to come from him. That’s why I don’t really like paddles and prefer hands.
I want flesh on flesh as much as possible. Cumming from HIM, not a tool.

Farawyn said:

...But I mostly don’t want it because it’s not as close. Using something else besides him to cum. I want to come from him. That’s why I don’t really like paddles and prefer hands.
I want flesh on flesh as much as possible. Cumming from HIM, not a tool.

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Farawyn said:

Cookie, you asked about electricity.
I’m not scared, really. He knows what he’s doing.

There is a background fear I could get burned.

But I mostly don’t want it because it’s not as close. Using something else besides him to cum. I want to come from him. That’s why I don’t really like paddles and prefer hands.
I want flesh on flesh as much as possible. Cumming from HIM, not a tool.

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Electricity would scare the shit out of me. I'd have to have a lot of faith in my partner to even entertain the idea.

Angedesoleil said:

... I...am living this right now. ... I always vow I won't ask I won't break but then I'm right back to begging within 3 months. I hope I wouldn't make the same relationship mistakes again... but there are no guarantees.

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I'm so sorry you're living through that! I'd rather be alone for the rest of my life.

Farawyn said:

Why do we put up with this shit for so long?

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This should be our own personal limit - we'll only put up with shit for (fill in blank) and then we're done!

cookiecat said:

This should be our own personal limit - we'll only put up with shit for (fill in blank) and then we're done!

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Agreed.