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KyleW said:
No, I have my online version up, quicker search than actually paging through the bible. I just can't remember the verses offhand, so now I need to refresh reading for reference.
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I really wish I was better with computers. I sense that if I give you the verses I am thinking of it will bite me in the butt but what the heck.

I am thinking of Matthew 28: 1-10
Mark 16: 1-8
Luke 24: 1-12

If you have everything on line then you could have found this easy so please I sense something coming. Be nice!!!
 
Exquisition said:
It's more factually correct than "It just is cos Jesus tells us so."

Systems that have to be 'made to fit', systems that do not stand the test of time are fatally flawed in every walk of life except blind faith. In other walks of life such systems are rapidly superseded or die out altogether.

With blind Faith, it doesn't even matter when scientific evidence blows holes in the accepted, because blind Faith conquers all.

Consider, you're given incontravertible proof the Bible you study and live by is inaccurate, mistranslated and misinterpreted until the original meaning is lost in a haze of smoke and mirrors.

A shepherd digs up a Bible in the Middle East. This Bible contains all the books (those that made it into the current version and those that didn't).

The parchments are carbon dated accurately and found to be written within living memory of Jesus's existence.

The writing is unadulterated, pure, not privy to the agendas of St Paul (subjugation of women) and Constantine and his cronies (political, empire maintenance).

Let's say you have the most perfect representation of all the books in the Bible, preserved for posterity

BUT

Much of what is written in those original books and parchments blows the modern version of the Bible out of the water. What does the Chruch do?

Why discredit of course! Throw lots of smear at the scientific evidence! Get a scholar or two to come up with counter measures!

IF Jesus existed, he was a man, not the Son of God. The Son of God bit was retro edited to bring order to the chaos of the early Christian Faith. It needed a miracle to justify its means, to propogate successfully.
Jesus was not born again
Jesus was married
The miracle of the wedding at Canaa was actually referring to Jesus' own wedding to Mary.

OMG! Blasphemy.

It calls the whole foundation of my belief system into question!

This can't be right.

SO

We discredit. We explain away those inconvenient truths. We postularise. We theoretise. We cast doubt and aspersion on the carbon dating. We cast doubt and aspersion on those particular scientific treatises that question our Faith.

AND

Slowly. We regain confidence. We recover. We smile and say "out Faith was tested but we are fine now. We see. No big deal....."

Yawn!

Sound familiar yet?

Try the Turin Shroud. A relic the Catholic Church based some of their certainty for Christianity on. For 'Christ's' existence, if you will.

Carbon dating. Forensic testing says : Nah it's a 13th/14th cetury fake.

All of a sudden carbon testing is called into question. The soothsayers try to convince us that the testing procedures weren;t rigorous enough....

And so we have a relic that in any other field of scientific endeavour would be dismissed happily as a hoax STILL playing an active role in the Catholic Faith - oh but now the Vatican doesn't allow it to be scrutinised too closely any more.

Do you see the problem?

No? Well, there's always blind Faith. It conquers all. Even scientific endeavour that believers are happy to accept in other walks of life.
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Just a hypothetical......

If all you say above is true, why does it matter to you what a follower of Christ believes? What difference does it make to anyone, except the believer, if they chose to live in accordance to those beliefs?

If there are discussions about God, such as on here, and a Christian shares their belief, even if they truly believe in only one way to God, what does it matter to someone who has a different belief? Each person is free to believe and share as they wish.
 
Don't you hate it when you forget about a thread? i was going to make a point earlier, oh well.

back to not making the point.
 
julybaby04 said:
Just a hypothetical......

If all you say above is true, why does it matter to you what a follower of Christ believes? What difference does it make to anyone, except the believer, if they chose to live in accordance to those beliefs?

If there are discussions about God, such as on here, and a Christian shares their belief, even if they truly believe in only one way to God, what does it matter to someone who has a different belief? Each person is free to believe and share as they wish.
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Yes, you are perfectly free to believe however you wish. Christ never forced Himself on others, He offered Himself. sadly. most Christians seems to think that it's perfectly OK to shove Him down your throat. It one of the reasons I resisted Christ for so long. It wasn't till I found a church that actually taught about the love of Christ NOT want He can do for you like so many others do.
 
AcerbusX said:
Yes, you are perfectly free to believe however you wish. Christ never forced Himself on others, He offered Himself. sadly. most Christians seems to think that it's perfectly OK to shove Him down your throat. It one of the reasons I resisted Christ for so long. It wasn't till I found a church that actually taught about the love of Christ NOT want He can do for you like so many others do.
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I am happy that you found a church that was what you needed.
 
Tryharder62 said:
That makes me feel so loved since you were talking to me!!!!
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Hahaha sorry. I got distracted and then when I rediscovered the thread later on, I just couldn't be bothered to remember what the hell I was talking about.

I'm either getting old or lazy, or maybe both.

Shit. Can god help with that? Is it too late to join up and get some magic juice?
 
SaintPeter said:
God wants you to put the bong away.
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God is responsible for the living creations on the planet right? So that would include pot. Why would he then not want people to smoke it? Seems strange. He's kind of a tease.

However, I do not smoke pot, so I'm not too angry about the situation. Just confused to why the dickbag is being a dick all of a sudden. Seems so against type. Ah I'm being disrespectful to your father, sorry about that pete. Oh that reminds me, PM!
 
julybaby04 said:
Just a hypothetical......

If all you say above is true, why does it matter to you what a follower of Christ believes? What difference does it make to anyone, except the believer, if they chose to live in accordance to those beliefs?

If there are discussions about God, such as on here, and a Christian shares their belief, even if they truly believe in only one way to God, what does it matter to someone who has a different belief? Each person is free to believe and share as they wish.
Click to expand...

None if :

a) you don't go around piously and joyously telling everyone how you;re a sinner but your soul is saved cos Jesus tells you so. I understand that religion is a personal journey. Keep it that way.

b) When your religion is hijacked by miltant extremists banging the bullshit drum in the name of your Faith and God - instead of quietly (tacitly) accepting it, you climb up to a higher point and shout the militants down "This asshole does not represent our Faith!"

In both cases most followers fail disastrously.
 
Tryharder62 said:
I believe that it did happen in 7 days,including rest, but I also think about 2 Peter 3:8. New International Version (NIV)
But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.
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That's a perfect illustration of what I've been trying to point out. Smoke and mirrors & get out clauses to find a way for making something fit. So now you have a problem. Because if you're going to arbitraily pluck figures out of thin air for what one "God day" is in real time - you need to apply that to all "God days" in the Bible.

Let's say 1 God Day is figuratively 1 year. How old does that make Abraham?
 
Exquisition said:
That's a perfect illustration of what I've been trying to point out. Smoke and mirrors & get out clauses to find a way for making something fit. So now you have a problem. Because if you're going to arbitraily pluck figures out of thin air for what one "God day" is in real time - you need to apply that to all "God days" in the Bible.

Let's say 1 God Day is figuratively 1 year. How old does that make Abraham?
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Hey, I said it was a hypothesis. Right now to me each day is seeming like an eternity. And I don't smoke:rolleyes:
 
See, if you take a Faith as a self-improvement philosophy for the individual it works fine. Nothing wrong with that at all.

Where all Faiths fall down is in the need for more recruits because without them, the religion fades and dies.

Got a big problem with that because that leads to the door knockers, the soap box merchants and the people who slip 'Jesus' and 'God' into as many conversations as possible without being asked.

Also leads to genocide (Bosnians, Serbians, Aztecs, Incas for e.g.) and THEIR cultures and belief systems.
 
Exquisition said:
See, if you take a Faith as a self-improvement philosophy for the individual it works fine. Nothing wrong with that at all.

Where all Faiths fall down is in the need for more recruits because without them, the religion fades and dies.

Got a big problem with that because that leads to the door knockers, the soap box merchants and the people who slip 'Jesus' and 'God' into as many conversations as possible without being asked.

Also leads to genocide (Bosnians, Serbians, Aztecs, Incas for e.g.) and THEIR cultures and belief systems.
Click to expand...

Christianity doesn't need new recruits but everybody is wanted. I'll explain it like this. Have you ever had this really fantastic pizza? I mean you took a bite and thought you may have had a mini-death. So you want people to check out the restaurant. You may even want to take some of your good friends there. Think about it like this pizza actually changed your life. You felt complete. You didn't want to take a nose dive off a 1000 foot cliff anymore. It excites you to the possibilities of life. Sooo maybe you sense someone is pizzaless. Wouldn't you want to share with them this marvelous pizza that rocked your world? If you truly are what you eat then you want to explain why you are oozing with cheese.:D

As to genocide, I can pull up some pretty grizzly stuff about Christian persecution. There are idiots of all beliefs and non-beliefs.
 
Exquisition said:
Now that's about the sanest thing I've read from a believer. Totally agree with that, if the Bible is the word of God, it doesn't merit long-winded interpretations from academics trying to make something illogical fit with our scientific understanding now.

In fact, a mere human even trying to put words in God's mouth by way of 'explaining' the inconsistencies is surely being blasphemous?

The word of God should just be as it is found in the Bible. Shouldn't need or merit explanantion from a carbon-based biped created by the Big One up there.
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Tryharder62 said:
:D:D Well said!!!!
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Thanks. It's the only I know how to describe my belief in God.

For years I always felt like I needed permission challenge the Christian faith without completely condemning it. Now I don't care what any hierarchy thinks of my relationship with God. Their judgement or acceptance is not a concern of mine. Jesus himself disagreed with the Church and Priests of his time. He rebelled against them for taking advantage of his father God when they used their faith for personal gain. Time and again various denominations have set up their own rules and rights of passage to gain access to God's Kingdom. I don't believe any man or woman has the right to dictate and decide who God accepts as his children....that is for God and God alone to decide. I also believe that Jesus did indeed die for our sins, but that does not absolve us of anything. He made it possible for us look at God open heartedly and to question the hierarchy when man, not God, decides whatever path we must take to pursue our faith.

When I went through the phase of questioning the existence of God, I realized that I was merely angry with God simply because things were not going the way I wanted them to. I've had lots of conversations with my daughter about Christianity. She is a devout Pentecostal. One time she told me, "Well Dad, you can be pissed at God all you want. You need to get over whatever your mad about, because he's not going to change his mind anytime soon. Just deal with it and move on." Those were pretty much my own words and logic being thrust back at me from my own kid. It was then I realized that God was answering my prayers on providing a better life for my kids. All of them adults living productive lives now. I was angry about what I thought I had lost, but slow in appreciating what I had gained.
 
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Tryharder62 said:
6 and then he rested. Crap I'm going to have to dig out all my experts on creation again.

I believe that it did happen in 7 days,including rest, but I also think about 2 Peter 3:8. New International Version (NIV)
But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

No one was there so we don't actually know the length of a day. There is great debate about that. I know it will not be answered in my life but if science continues to fine tune and if we don't shut the evidence out as Christians we might find that a day was much longer than we thought.
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Well, science can prove that the earth (and the universe) is still not done being created, after billions of years... so how do you explain that the bible got that part wrong?

Also, where are you getting this creative "definition" of a day from? I don't think that you're getting it from the bible, are you?
;)
 
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Tryharder62 said:
Christianity doesn't need new recruits but everybody is wanted. I'll explain it like this. Have you ever had this really fantastic pizza? I mean you took a bite and thought you may have had a mini-death. So you want people to check out the restaurant. You may even want to take some of your good friends there. Think about it like this pizza actually changed your life. You felt complete. You didn't want to take a nose dive off a 1000 foot cliff anymore. It excites you to the possibilities of life. Sooo maybe you sense someone is pizzaless. Wouldn't you want to share with them this marvelous pizza that rocked your world? If you truly are what you eat then you want to explain why you are oozing with cheese.:D

As to genocide, I can pull up some pretty grizzly stuff about Christian persecution. There are idiots of all beliefs and non-beliefs.
Click to expand...

Christianity absolutely needs new recruits, if you believe otherwise, you're being completely naive.

Do you think the leadership of your church thinks that it's ok to not get new blood involved? That's preposterous.

They teach you to "spread the gospel", and to talk about it in a non-confrontational manner in the same ways that the hare krishnas and other cults do.
 
julybaby04 said:
Just a hypothetical......

If all you say above is true, why does it matter to you what a follower of Christ believes? What difference does it make to anyone, except the believer, if they chose to live in accordance to those beliefs?

If there are discussions about God, such as on here, and a Christian shares their belief, even if they truly believe in only one way to God, what does it matter to someone who has a different belief? Each person is free to believe and share as they wish.
Click to expand...

So you admit that you don't have the truth on your side.

Good.

You're free to believe in your fairy tale within that framework.
 
Self-described believers arguing for the existence of God and self-described atheists arguing against the existence of God...

...two sides of the same doofus coin.

As the Nazarene reportedly said:

Render therefore unto the doofuses the things which are the doofuses'...
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eyer said:
Self-described believers arguing for the existence of God and self-described atheists arguing against the existence of God...

...two sides of the same doofus coin.

As the Nazarene reportedly said:
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Go get 'em, Eyer! Personal liberty is one thing thing, but someone characterizing their own beliefs without regard to your opinion of them is just taking it too far, amiright?
 
Still miffed they haven't invited you to fill Susan Slaughter's spot yet, huh?

That open mind you like to fantasize you have, Sonny?

It's called a garbage can...

BTW:

Your mother called:

She said to tell you the only reason they didn't circumcise you way back then is because they feared the little brains you were born with would all leak out...

...so you can quit playing a Jew on the internet.
 
eyer said:
Your mom called again:

She said to quit beating yourself up so much 'cause it's not your fault...

...you were her mistake.
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Come on, man. I feel bad enough about suggesting you didn't really care about personal liberty and were more likely to mock other people's beliefs than defend them. I was way off, and I'm sorry.

I also feel bad about saying that you were like a combination of Jim Ignatowski and Barney Gumble. You obviously think very clearly. That Susan Slaughter thing was DEAD ON.

Plus, you seem to have spent some time thinking about the state of my cock. Until now, I hadn't considered that you might be gay, I just thought were celibate. This paints you in a whole new light.

This has been a very tough morning for me, and I wish you'd stop kicking a guy when he's down like this.
 
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