Writing out of your comfort zone

Hi all,
Back when the ‘In a Sunburned Country’ event was on, I began a romance story about the love between a middle class white Australian man and an Indigenous Australian woman. I don’t write often but it was an idea I’ve had in my head for some time and thought it an excellent fit for the event’s criteria.

Part of the story included the trials and tribulations the couple faced when dealing with friends and other randoms who make racist comments, some comments casual and others overtly racist, which unfortunately is something Indigenous people often have to deal with. Consequently, as I wrote I found myself becoming increasingly uncomfortable with what some of the characters were saying to the young couple, because I know many people really do have to put up with that kind of crap on a daily basis. I began to water it down, then around 20,000 words I abandoned the story altogether because I felt it wasn’t a part of the story which could or should be sugar-coated for the sake of entertainment. I began to feel I wasn’t the one to tell it.

The idea for the story is still there, though if I were to do the story justice I think it needs to be done right, without sugar-coating. What are your opinions/thoughts on authors writing stories about topics they know about but are generally unfamiliar with the experience in the real world? In this case, two lovers experiencing and battling against racism and prejudice, but my question could apply to other issues and struggles that people deal with every day.

I guess I don't have that problem. I wrote one novel (not suitable for here) that contains characters that I am not comfortable with. That being said...

I do have the problem of overworking stuff. Going back through and deleting/revising to the point where I get way off the mark of where I began. Sometimes it's best not to overthink.

Write the story you want to write. Watering it down or sugar coating it does just that, waters it down. Racism is a hot button topic all over the world in one form or another. It would seem some of your characters are not the best people when it comes to this topic but they ring true so... Use what you have. You may not like them but the world knows them.

Use what you have and tell the tale the best you can. If you can twist a good ending out of it, you could have a best seller. JMHO.

Fiction writers do it all the time. Reading fiction usually requires a suspension of belief on what is defined as factual, acceptable, normal, or reality based. As TxRad said, write the story you want to write. Kant

Not knowing what you've written...it seems that there may also be an opening for "some character" to be a positive counter to the racist remarks. In other words, can the racist remarks be rebutted, or pushed back against, at the time they were said without it coming across as 'Preaching"? Would that temper the harshness of it? If that can be done, and you think it would help, at 20K words it may be easier to start over using the main structure of what you have but tweaking the dialogue, etc.

Thefireflies said:

...if I were to do the story justice I think it needs to be done right, without sugar-coating. What are your opinions/thoughts on authors writing stories about topics they know about but are generally unfamiliar with the experience in the real world? In this case, two lovers experiencing and battling against racism and prejudice, but my question could apply to other issues and struggles that people deal with every day.

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I'd call that not so much 'comfort zone' as 'stretch'. Will you stretch your writing into foggy or problematic areas? Can you navigate the raw edge of narrative? Maybe approach it as a puzzle project -- what pieces need to go where?

Yes, intolerance is hot-button pretty much all over. Ethnicity, religion, wealth vs poverty, dialect, dress, body type, kinks -- all targets of hate and thus elements of drama. Every hate is a barrier in life. A strong story tells of overcoming such barriers. No sugar-coating -- but can you craft a sweet ending? Many readers love HEA.

Thanks for the helpful replies

Thanks for all your replies and input. Some excellent advice and thoughts here, some of which mirrored what I was already thinking and others to give me more to think about.

The racism and prejudice was only part of the plot, and it was always going to be a sweet romance in the long run, but I felt the racism side of things might be problematic, since it was potentially going to be simmering away in the background, raising its ugly head every now and then. I guess I didn’t feel qualified, or worthy to be the one telling the tale, with all the issues involved, though I still think the story had/has merit. But ever since I stopped writing the story, it’s been niggling away at my thoughts, and since I’ve been in a writing mood, I’ve often thought about going back to it. I’ll probably give it a go. If I do and if I think it’s good enough, I’ll put it up.

Thefireflies said:

Thanks for all your replies and input. Some excellent advice and thoughts here, some of which mirrored what I was already thinking and others to give me more to think about.

The racism and prejudice was only part of the plot, and it was always going to be a sweet romance in the long run, but I felt the racism side of things might be problematic, since it was potentially going to be simmering away in the background, raising its ugly head every now and then. I guess I didn’t feel qualified, or worthy to be the one telling the tale, with all the issues involved, though I still think the story had/has merit. But ever since I stopped writing the story, it’s been niggling away at my thoughts, and since I’ve been in a writing mood, I’ve often thought about going back to it. I’ll probably give it a go. If I do and if I think it’s good enough, I’ll put it up.

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I think that there are a couple of issues here. There is the question of the propriety of white people telling the stories of people of color. You did not mention what POV you used in the story. It's a tricky area that needs to be navigated carefully. Are you telling the story from the white man? Doing so might be the most comfortable fit for you.

To me, the most important concern as a writer would be whether I am doing the story, and the characters, justice. Am I able to fairly and adequately tell their story? If I felt I could, I would tell it, if I believed I could not, I would not continue with the project.

Go for it. Just do it and see how it turns out.

One of the things constantly to keep in mind when writing a story like this is you don't have to tell everything. You don't need to cover every single detail of what it's like to be a person with a background different from yours. As with any other element of a story, all you need is to give a few details to create authenticity. Every good story leaves out more than it includes.

People are people. Background matters, but all people everywhere are motivated by the same basic things: love, jealousy, ambition, desire, fear, etc. Pay attention to making your characters real people, and do some research and add some details to make the background believable enough, and you'll be O.K.

MelissaBaby raises an interesting point, which is that the POV of your story will be a big factor in how difficult this story will be to write. It will be easier and more comfortable to write it from the POV of the white man, rather than the indigenous woman, but that's not a good reason to shy away from the challenge if you are up to it. There's nothing wrong in principle with writing outside your comfort zone, and authors do it all the time.

When you stray off the reservation you almost always write shit. Write what you know.


I'm suffering a David Balducci novel Clint Eastwood fixed into a decent film, but the book is a royal mess. The errors are plain nutty. Balducci got in a hurry, and failed to think things out. Eastwood knew the subject and tossed out the crap.

FEELINGLUCKYPUNK said:

When you stray off the reservation you almost always write shit. Write what you know.


I'm suffering a David Balducci novel Clint Eastwood fixed into a decent film, but the book is a royal mess. The errors are plain nutty. Balducci got in a hurry, and failed to think things out. Eastwood knew the subject and tossed out the crap.

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I couldn't disagree with this advice more. If everyone actually followed this advice the world of literature would be immeasurably poorer for it.

Agatha Christie had no life experience as a detective. Yet, she became the world's most famous detective novelist and the most successful novelist of all time. If she had followed the advice to write only "what she knew" the world probably would not have paid any attention to her.

With a good imagination, a gift for words, and a knack for paying attention and doing your research, you can write about anything, and about anyone from any background.

Don't be browbeaten from giving it a try, by anyone.

SimonDoom said:

One of the things constantly to keep in mind when writing a story like this is you don't have to tell everything. You don't need to cover every single detail of what it's like to be a person with a background different from yours. As with any other element of a story, all you need is to give a few details to create authenticity. Every good story leaves out more than it includes.

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No, we needn't tell all. I recall an anecdote: West Side Story's development included much research on gangs. One of the creative leads said, "Hey, we're writing a musical, not a sociology paper!"

I like hinting. Hints can go a long way but can also be tricky. We must hope our readers know enough to catch our implications.

FEELINGLUCKYPUNK said:

When you stray off the reservation you almost always write shit. Write what you know.

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SimonDoom said:

MelissaBaby raises an interesting point, which is that the POV of your story will be a big factor in how difficult this story will be to write. It will be easier and more comfortable to write it from the POV of the white man, rather than the indigenous woman, but that's not a good reason to shy away from the challenge if you are up to it. There's nothing wrong in principle with writing outside your comfort zone, and authors do it all the time.

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I’m going to have to agree with Simon on this one. It might be less awkward to write from the white male OOV (assuming you are a white male, that is) but that doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t push yourself—that’s the only way to improve as a writer. I mean, I’m not a man but I write from a male POV on occasion. I’m also not a centaur or an android or a vampire; yeah, they might seem inherently different from trying to get into the mindset of an aboriginal woman but it requires the same skill set and thought process.

I feel like shying away from something just because it is a touchy subject is probably the reason why it is a touchy subject in the first place. Blatant racism is everywhere you look now a days. While you might not have been subjected to it personally (or maybe you have) I am inclined to think that you’ve witnessed it plenty as a third party. That gives you a unique insight into how it effects both sides.

Give it a go, if for no other reason than yourself. You aren’t obligated to publish it but I think you’ll feel a satisfaction from writing what was on your mind and staying true to the story.

Thefireflies said:

Part of the story included the trials and tribulations the couple faced when dealing with friends and other randoms who make racist comments, some comments casual and others overtly racist, which unfortunately is something Indigenous people often have to deal with. Consequently, as I wrote I found myself becoming increasingly uncomfortable with what some of the characters were saying to the young couple, because I know many people really do have to put up with that kind of crap on a daily basis. I began to water it down, then around 20,000 words I abandoned the story altogether because I felt it wasn’t a part of the story which could or should be sugar-coated for the sake of entertainment. I began to feel I wasn’t the one to tell it.

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I have a story that I've parked for similar reasons. I think it's important for authors to include characters unlike themselves (don't really need another iteration of The Middle-Aged White Male Writer Who Was Inexplicably Attractive To Younger Women, TYVM) but that also requires work.

If I write about a character outside my own race/gender/religion/etc. I want people who are from those groups to be able to read my story and think "that was credible, this author knows us" not "what nonsense is this?" If I don't have the background knowledge necessary to achieve that, then I need to either put in the effort/call in favours to get that knowledge, or write something else.

Indigenous Australians being a good example. "Aboriginal" covers hundreds of different tribes with distinct cultures, languages, etc. etc. but in fiction written by People Who Didn't Do The Research, those all get smooshed together into Generic Aboriginal. It's as if somebody wrote a "European" character named Stjepan O'Mitterand who hunts reindeer in the traditional tartan kilt and lederhosen while listening to Roxette.

Bramblethorn said:

I have a story that I've parked for similar reasons. I think it's important for authors to include characters unlike themselves (don't really need another iteration of The Middle-Aged White Male Writer Who Was Inexplicably Attractive To Younger Women, TYVM) but that also requires work.

If I write about a character outside my own race/gender/religion/etc. I want people who are from those groups to be able to read my story and think "that was credible, this author knows us" not "what nonsense is this?" If I don't have the background knowledge necessary to achieve that, then I need to either put in the effort/call in favours to get that knowledge, or write something else.

Indigenous Australians being a good example. "Aboriginal" covers hundreds of different tribes with distinct cultures, languages, etc. etc. but in fiction written by People Who Didn't Do The Research, those all get smooshed together into Generic Aboriginal. It's as if somebody wrote a "European" character named Stjepan O'Mitterand who hunts reindeer in the traditional tartan kilt and lederhosen while listening to Roxette.

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But aren't we making some possibly unwarranted assumptions about this? I'm willing to concede that I'm the product of my background (white and male) in many respects, but how many details would one have to insert in a story about a character like me to make it plausibly about a white male character? What research would an indigenous Australian author have to do to write a story about a modern white male? Not much, I think. If one writes a story about a character of indigenous Australian ancestry who is raised and lives in modern Melbourne, how much research does one have to do to present that character in a sufficiently plausible way? I'm not sure it has to be that much because I'm not sure how much one has to say about background in a short erotic story.

I think your test is an appropriate one (i.e., how a reader of that background would react), but I also think some are too intimidated by the prospect of that reader would react.

Not to discourage any writer from trying to develop uncomfortable styles, but my own writing has been safely in my comfort zone. I have no interest in writing the type of story I would not care to read, any more than I would write a song I do not care to sing or paint a picture that I do not care to see.

But if such subject matter does intrigue you, by all means go for it. But try to stay true to the part of yourself that is attracted to such stories, and write for that aspect and not for what other people might like to see.

I used that approach when I wrote "The Path of Pain." Now I have no interest in torturing myself, but there was a time when I did, and the story came out of an attempt to re-connect with that part of myself and see if I could make sense of it from the distance of a few decades. From the standpoint of reader appreciation, I seem to have been successful, but I'm not sure I achieved what I had set out to do.

SimonDoom said:

But aren't we making some possibly unwarranted assumptions about this? I'm willing to concede that I'm the product of my background (white and male) in many respects, but how many details would one have to insert in a story about a character like me to make it plausibly about a white male character? What research would an indigenous Australian author have to do to write a story about a modern white male? Not much, I think.

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Those aren't symmetric situations, though.

The average Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander has grown up with VASTLY more exposure to white Australian/US/UK culture than vice versa. They probably know hundreds of white people, most of the media they get is white-people-focussed, etc. Effectively they've already done decades of research on us.

There's also more potential for harm if white people write bad Indigenous rep than vice versa.

If one writes a story about a character of indigenous Australian ancestry who is raised and lives in modern Melbourne, how much research does one have to do to present that character in a sufficiently plausible way? I'm not sure it has to be that much because I'm not sure how much one has to say about background in a short erotic story.

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Depends on where the story is going, but anything that touches on their personal life starts getting into that territory where research is important.

For example - the most-viewed category on this site is Incest, IIRC. Many Aboriginal groups have significantly different concepts of family and kinship, and some relationships that would be perfectly acceptable in white Australian culture could be effectively brother-sister-level incestuous for certain tribes.

Many Aboriginal people don't even call themselves "Aboriginal" except when interacting with white people. Those who know their tribe/nation will often identify by those entities instead. So at the point where I'm mentioning a character's Aboriginality, I need to know what their tribe is, or why they don't identify by that.

MelissaBaby said:

I think that there are a couple of issues here. There is the question of the propriety of white people telling the stories of people of color. You did not mention what POV you used in the story. It's a tricky area that needs to be navigated carefully. Are you telling the story from the white man? Doing so might be the most comfortable fit for you.

To me, the most important concern as a writer would be whether I am doing the story, and the characters, justice. Am I able to fairly and adequately tell their story? If I felt I could, I would tell it, if I believed I could not, I would not continue with the project.

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Yes, this is where my knowledge and experience runs out of my comfort zone. The story I began was written in third person from the white male’s pov, however, writing how the young lady’s side of the conversation, how she reacts to various things, how her family react and their conversation’s etc was also factored in. Writing those parts flowed with the rest of the story, except I had to keep asking myself if I was falling into a stereotyping trap, and were the conversation, actions and reactions of various characters realistic given their different life experiences in a modern Australian cultural context that hasn't been kind to them.

Bramblethorn said:

I have a story that I've parked for similar reasons. I think it's important for authors to include characters unlike themselves (don't really need another iteration of The Middle-Aged White Male Writer Who Was Inexplicably Attractive To Younger Women, TYVM) but that also requires work.
If I write about a character outside my own race/gender/religion/etc. I want people who are from those groups to be able to read my story and think "that was credible, this author knows us" not "what nonsense is this?" If I don't have the background knowledge necessary to achieve that, then I need to either put in the effort/call in favours to get that knowledge, or write something else.

Indigenous Australians being a good example. "Aboriginal" covers hundreds of different tribes with distinct cultures, languages, etc. etc. but in fiction written by People Who Didn't Do The Research, those all get smooshed together into Generic Aboriginal. It's as if somebody wrote a "European" character named Stjepan O'Mitterand who hunts reindeer in the traditional tartan kilt and lederhosen while listening to Roxette.

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Yes, I agree with this 100%, which is why I felt out of my depth. I’ve researched, but I’m not sure if it's enough or adequate. While I do have a contact to ask questions, I’m not sure if I want to explain it’s for a romance with some explicit sex in it! lol

SimonDoom said:

…What research would an indigenous Australian author have to do to write a story about a modern white male? Not much, I think. If one writes a story about a character of indigenous Australian ancestry who is raised and lives in modern Melbourne, how much research does one have to do to present that character in a sufficiently plausible way? I'm not sure it has to be that much because I'm not sure how much one has to say about background in a short erotic story.

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There are plenty of suburban Indigenous people with strong sense of indigenous identity, plus a strong connection to country. And plenty who feel their deep loss or disconnection too. This is partly why I began to write the story I was writing, though I did feel it could be interpreted as preaching, as yukonnights suggested in a post above. And perhaps it was meant to be preachy at the time? I wanted to tell a story that was believable and realistic.

Bramblethorn said:

…Many Aboriginal people don't even call themselves "Aboriginal" except when interacting with white people. Those who know their tribe/nation will often identify by those entities instead. So at the point where I'm mentioning a character's Aboriginality, I need to know what their tribe is, or why they don't identify by that.

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This also raises another issue, because though I set the story in a specific region I know reasonably well, and know of the local people, I don’t actually know them so I’m not sure if I should be identifying them as such. Perhaps I should generalise, or make up a fictional township or region? It’s an ethical mine field.

Thefireflies said:

The idea for the story is still there, though if I were to do the story justice I think it needs to be done right, without sugar-coating. What are your opinions/thoughts on authors writing stories about topics they know about but are generally unfamiliar with the experience in the real world? In this case, two lovers experiencing and battling against racism and prejudice, but my question could apply to other issues and struggles that people deal with every day.

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I'm not sure why this is outside your comfort zone. It seems like you're uncomfortable about writing about racial prejudice that actually exists. Is it that hard to face the truth?

I've never been to Oz. My employer and old friend has traveled all over the world for most of his life (he's 76). There was a time when he was looking for suggestions about where to go next, and I pointed out that I'd never known him to go to Australia.

Oz was one of his first travel destinations. That would have been in the mid-1960's when he was an undergrad at Yale and I was about ten. He said he overheard blatantly racist things said in casual conversations that he thought should never be said by one human about another. He's never gone back and will never go back.

Writing an interracial story in Australia might not be much different than writing one placed in Chicago, where race relationships seem very strained, or in the US south where social segregation is widely accepted. It's a fact of life. Why can't you write about it?

SimonDoom said:

I couldn't disagree with this advice more. If everyone actually followed this advice the world of literature would be immeasurably poorer for it.

Agatha Christie had no life experience as a detective. Yet, she became the world's most famous detective novelist and the most successful novelist of all time. If she had followed the advice to write only "what she knew" the world probably would not have paid any attention to her.

With a good imagination, a gift for words, and a knack for paying attention and doing your research, you can write about anything, and about anyone from any background.

Don't be browbeaten from giving it a try, by anyone.

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wRITE WHAT YOU KNOW. Its the conventional wisdom asserted by the best writers. Google it.

One of the great joys of writing is to research something to write that you didn't know about before. If you only write about what you now know, there are only so many novels about trailer parks in Tampa, Florida, the reading public has the stomach to read.

My writing comfort zone is a lot broader than my "actually do it" comfort zone is, although I've pushed the latter to accommodate the former. For instance, I researched sounding up close to be able to write about it, because I perceived there was a market there (and I have an essay here about the research on that). There's still a line there, though. Although I've brushed on water sports (e.g. golden showers) in a couple of stories, that's just too far out of my comfort zone to want even to write about (but there's a market for it).

Writing as a woman--and even in a lesbian context. Sure, I'll do that, and have separate account names doing it here and even in the marketplace.

KeithD said:

If you only write about what you now know, there are only so many novels about trailer parks in Tampa, Florida, the reading public has the stomach to read.

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I thought trailer trash tales were a major dramatic genre.

NotWise said:

Writing an interracial story in Australia might not be much different than writing one placed in Chicago, where race relationships seem very strained, or in the US south where social segregation is widely accepted.

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Intolerance abounds. Patterns are likely similar everywhere. The exact epithets flung will vary, but the tone is the same.

Thefireflies said:

...as I wrote I found myself becoming increasingly uncomfortable with what some of the characters were saying to the young couple, because I know many people really do have to put up with that kind of crap on a daily basis.

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I'm not sure how much hate must be inserted into an erotic story. Can you report that hate happened without overly detailing it, or would that be watering-down too much?

Hypoxia said:

I thought trailer trash tales were a major dramatic genre.

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Since JBJ thinks you should only write what you know, I was trying to keep the post within his context.

FEELINGLUCKYPUNK said:

When you stray off the reservation you almost always write shit. Write what you know.

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I nearly died of irony when I read this statement.