Quality Dominant/Submissive Relationships

A very interesting thread. I feel chemistry and respect is very important even in a BDSM relationship. A lot of the problem happens because people don't know who or what they exactly are, experience helps a long way.

I feel intelligent and smart people find their partners better. You cannot say a Dominant should be intelligent but a submissive to not be. It's about finding your limits and exploring yourself.

BubblyBookworm said:

I have been on Lit off and on for awhile. Over that time, I have been approached by individuals who seemed to have a fictional idea of domination. Some people appear to believe it is messaging someone and issuing edicts or orders. Also, some folks think it is possession or aggressive sex. Yet, some others want to be submissive, and they top from the bottom! They want to tell you how you should Domme or what you should do, or how you should perform. From those with genuine experience, what do you see as important factors, qualities, or traits of an effective dominant, and/or D/s relationship?

I am not being sassy, and would truly appreciate sincere replies!!

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It’s a good question(s), but I would ask the mods to move this to BSDM Talk, if you want sincere discussion.
The Cafe is more lighthearted and mostly for games. Good luck.

reloadeddd said:

A very interesting thread. I feel chemistry and respect is very important even in a BDSM relationship. A lot of the problem happens because people don't know who or what they exactly are, experience helps a long way.

I feel intelligent and smart people find their partners better. You cannot say a Dominant should be intelligent but a submissive to not be. It's about finding your limits and exploring yourself.

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I appreciate you sharing your thoughts! I feel much the same! But, it usually ends up people playing at one or the other. They usually have an agenda for what they seek, and don’t take the time to get to know the other person or their interests and needs. That is not a partnership, but rather one person seeking to fulfill their desires ! Much different than a D/s relationship or even a reciprocal give and take.

I think it can be difficult to know how to go about it online when there's not the same subtlety of body language, eye contact, etc.

Farawyn said:

It’s a good question(s), but I would ask the mods to move this to BSDM Talk, if you want sincere discussion.
The Cafe is more lighthearted and mostly for games. Good luck.

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Thank you; I did not realize there was another forum thread for that! How do you do that?

whenagain said:

I think it can be difficult to know how to go about it online when there's not the same subtlety of body language, eye contact, etc.

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I would agree wholeheartedly there!

BubblyBookworm said:

I would agree wholeheartedly there!

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This can lead to needing to say more directly what one needs.

whenagain said:

This can lead to needing to say more directly what one needs.

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That is always a great idea, but not everyone truly cares to know. They talk at an individual instead of to them! Like an object instead of a person!

BubblyBookworm said:

Thank you; I did not realize there was another forum thread for that! How do you do that?

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I just placed a request to the mods to have the thread moved.

cascadiabound said:

I just placed a request to the mods to have the thread moved.

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Thank you; you are so sweet! By the way, I love your compass thread! Sending you joy and sunshine your way!!

BubblyBookworm said:

That is always a great idea, but not everyone truly cares to know. They talk at an individual instead of to them! Like an object instead of a person!

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That's defeating so much of the point of connection. But it's also a larger societal thing.

whenagain said:

That's defeating so much of the point of connection. But it's also a larger societal thing.

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I agree there, and I think some who come here can get absorbed in the fantasy.

BubblyBookworm said:

I have been on Lit off and on for awhile. Over that time, I have been approached by individuals who seemed to have a fictional idea of domination. Some people appear to believe it is messaging someone and issuing edicts or orders. Also, some folks think it is possession or aggressive sex. Yet, some others want to be submissive, and they top from the bottom! They want to tell you how you should Domme or what you should do, or how you should perform. From those with genuine experience, what do you see as important factors, qualities, or traits of an effective dominant, and/or D/s relationship?

I am not being sassy, and would truly appreciate sincere replies!!

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sissy believes that TRUST is the most important thing.
It is the Dominants job/duty to guide the relationship and the submissive requirement to follow.
This is really the ultimate show of devotion and love which is gained only through TRUST.
The Dom will have the instinct to guide the relationship in the direction that the Dom wants it to go. To control completely the Dom must really care and show this to the sub in the treatment of the sub.

As far as I see - it's quite simple.
DS relationship is first and foremost a relationship. That means that your partner should interest you on a level deeper than sex/kink object.

Second, a consensus is necessary. A good, long talk outside of bed where you both share your expectations, your wants and needs, and things that are your limits. In that regard, I believe, it's totally GOOD for a sub to tell you what he wants and how he wants it. I wouldn't call it talking from the bottom if there's an ongoing discussion every time you try something new (or before you even try anything).
The aim as a dominant here is to slowly study your submissive to get to the point where they don't need to stop you or ask you to do stuff. And believe me, quality feedback is very important here.

Topping from the bottom would be if they constantly interrupt during the scene giving you suggestions. In that case you just tell them that you are going to do your thing currently, and whatever they have to say they can say regardless.
Be wary though that this doesn't cover situations where they express discomfort or apprehensiveness about what you are doing - in that case you should back off.

Basically, everything you've descrived CAN be part of a quality DS relationship. The difference is that the Dom should ask, if you are even interested in getting ordered around by him at that point.

Problem here is lack of knowledge. People learn about BDSM mostly based on porn and fantasy, and their knowledge is thus very one-sided and incomplete, unbalanced. Instead of hating on them, I think it's much better to take effort and explain what they are doing wrong, direct them to some articles or informative threads.

Farawyn said:

It’s a good question(s), but I would ask the mods to move this to BSDM Talk, if you want sincere discussion.
The Cafe is more lighthearted and mostly for games. Good luck.

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You mistake BDSM Café for The Playground.

Nezhul said:

As far as I see - it's quite simple.
DS relationship is first and foremost a relationship.

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A good start.

That means that your partner should interest you on a level deeper than sex/kink object.

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And then you botched it.

BubblyBookworm said:

From those with genuine experience, what do you see as important factors, qualities, or traits of an effective dominant, and/or D/s relationship?

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"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

A quality relationship is one where the parties involved see their relationship as an advancement of the pursuit of happiness.

We can then start to categorize relationships, because humans can categorize basically everything - we can even categorize categories. This is useful when talking about things, but it is not useful when it is about assessing things. It's like trying to determine what an "effective bird" is.

If you like to have letters delivered, a carrier pigeon is a much better partner for you than a flamingo. People who try to argue that their bird is better than other birds merely display a petty mind.

Primalex said:

You mistake BDSM Café for The Playground.

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The PG is a Jr. High dance where everyone goes off to the corner to gossip and make out.

BubblyBookworm said:

I have been on Lit off and on for awhile. Over that time, I have been approached by individuals who seemed to have a fictional idea of domination. Some people appear to believe it is messaging someone and issuing edicts or orders. Also, some folks think it is possession or aggressive sex. Yet, some others want to be submissive, and they top from the bottom! They want to tell you how you should Domme or what you should do, or how you should perform. From those with genuine experience, what do you see as important factors, qualities, or traits of an effective dominant, and/or D/s relationship?

I am not being sassy, and would truly appreciate sincere replies!!

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Are you talking about online or in person or doesn't it matter for this conversation?

When you say "fictional" - do you mean more of a cliche version of bdsm? Because what you describe - issuing edicts/orders via messaging - is truthful for some folks. When I first started exploring bdsm, it was all online. I experienced that type of communication: "twist your nipples five times to the right, slut" and I loved it. Now, not so much but at the time it worked. I learned a lot about what I liked, didn't like, testing limits, etc.

For me, a D/s relationship is about possession and rough sex. I super dig that stuff. Not always but sometimes.

I learned a valuable lesson here about topping from the bottom. Some D types like bratty s types. That's not the lesson - what I learned from others here is that often times topping from the bottom is confused for a submissive voicing what he / she needs or desires.

An effective D/s relationship is just an effective relationship. Whatever works for the people involved = effective.

I don't think it has to be this magical D/s relationship. It can be a Top/bottom relationship, a kinky friendship, a mentor/student or Owner/object thing. Each dynamic should have similar goals and clear communication. Each person in the relationship should get his/her needs met. Same as any 'ole successful relationship.

Important qualities in a Dominant should be the same for the submissive. Consistency, clarity, honesty, no drama. I'd expect these things from everyone in my life.

BubblyBookworm said:

I have been on Lit off and on for awhile. Over that time, I have been approached by individuals who seemed to have a fictional idea of domination. Some people appear to believe it is messaging someone and issuing edicts or orders. Also, some folks think it is possession or aggressive sex. Yet, some others want to be submissive, and they top from the bottom! They want to tell you how you should Domme or what you should do, or how you should perform. From those with genuine experience, what do you see as important factors, qualities, or traits of an effective dominant, and/or D/s relationship?

I am not being sassy, and would truly appreciate sincere replies!!

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In my version of that ... genuine care for each other, trust, actually being into what's going on (that would cover 'not doing it just to make the other person happy' and 'not doing it because it's what the 'script' says'), trust, the ability to communicate clearly and honestly.

Primalex said:

A good start.



And then you botched it.

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trying too damn hard again.

Primalex said:

A good start.



And then you botched it.

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Have to agree here. Not all "relationships" are about Love (It can be all about sex, and all parties can walk away happy). I once had a friend with benefits. Neither of us wanted anything from the relationship but sex. We had been friends for years but we were not really compatible for a "relationship". As long as both (or maybe more ) parties are up front and honest about what they want from the relationship it can work out fine.

This has been a good read thus far!

I can't speak to online D/s, to me my two botched attempts at this felt clumsy and dissatisfying. Maybe because they were lacking some of these elements or maybe I'm just a terrible online playmate, who knows?!

Offline, well that's easier. A genuine desire to pursue a common goal sums up any successful relationship in my mind. What that goal is can be as fluid, deep or shallow, as the two like, so long as they are of like minds.

Thoughts on D/s borrowed and revamped a bit...

A D/s relationship is just that…a relationship. Some people who practice D/s get off on having a bunch of rules and routines, but no matter what the format, the same basic ‘vanilla’ rules apply.

Dick pics or telling a potential sub that they must call you "Master" or "Sir" probably won't get you very far.

Kindness and the benefit of the doubt will go a long way. Just like in any other relationship.

Sex is fabulous, but sex alone isn’t a relationship.

Communicate, communicate, communicate. Say what you mean, and mean what you say.

Don’t stay with someone who makes you feel badly about yourself.

Consent is given freely without coercion. (And there should never be a ‘but’ or an ‘except’ after this one.)

Don’t say it’s okay if it’s not.

Bad days will happen. Don’t threaten to leave every time things are difficult.

Remember that sometimes you have to place harmony above your desire to be right.

When all else fails default to love.

Calling yourself a Dom, sub, Master, slave, or pet doesn’t change the basics of how relationships work. You are still two people who need to work out all of the usual stuff with each other.

Take her on a real date. Open her door. Compliment her on something other than how she looks. Her being submissive doesn’t mean basic chivalry goes out the window.

Don’t expect him to read your mind. If you want something communicate. Don’t assume that sex is the only thing he cares about.

Learn to love yourself so you can love and be loved fully. The bondage, ropes, kneeling, and rules come later. They are the structure that holds the relationship. If you have those things but don’t have anything to fill the space inside then the structure collapses.