All thoughts are welcome

beerlovr88 said:

It's quite amazing that you'd experience such an extremely negative reaction towards two sentences. At worse if I didn't care for two sentences I would merely be bored or otherwise lose interest, so if your left eye was actual fluttering then you're reacting in a way that I never dreamt possible.

Still, if I say so myself my opening paragraph was incredibly ambitious, and if it didn't resonate with you then it didn't resonate with you and you were very much justified to cease with the read shortly thereafter.

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You don't have much of a sense of humor, do you?

Emirus said:

You have a good command of the English language, and I’m pretty sure you are in the UK, but you are very verbose in your writing. Perhaps you are trying, subconsciously, to impress with your effusiveness and loquacity? Bloody hell! I’m sure you can’t be as blathering in your normal speech.

I got as bored writing that as you and everyone else must have been reading it.

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It's such a pity that you were so bored with that writing because I found it to be immensely amusing. For one you offer me praise of my 'command of the English language' (praise that I give far more consideration coming from an English person). In addition to this you openly speculate about my origins, which is again amusing because you happen to be very much mistaken (I've never been to the UK). You also assume that I'm trying to 'impress with my effusiveness and loquacity', in which case you might be surprised to learn that I'm not trying to impress; it's merely a result of a personal preference of mine, and it's really not all that different from how I would normally speak, however 'annoying' or 'pompous' others might perceive that to be.

But of course, if you were terribly bored writing something that I was interested in, then you'll likely be just as bored when reading my response to something that intrigued me.

Emirus said:

Getting back to Beerlvr88.

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Finally.

Emirus said:

I think he could improve his writing if he made a point of reading the work of some of the many very good writers on this site.

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As opposed to rewording my sentences and showing me how they could be improved? Either way I must digress. If you feel there are 'very good writers' on this site then feel free to link some of them so that I might journey onward with my scathing criticism of others. After all, I believe the most important take away everything that's been stated would be this:

GrandTeton said:

The fact that your writing is less entertaining than that of others does not, of course, necessarily reflect on your critical faculties.

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MelissaBaby said:

You don't have much of a sense of humor, do you?

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Is this your way of suggesting that you had merely been exaggerating for the sake of emphasis? Mind you, this is all well and good, but keep my sense of humor out of it -- for in my defense, based solely on your previous stories, I just didn't think that you were capable of incorporating this type of literary ploy.

You wanted comments on your story, but you seem unreceptive to the comments you've gotten, despite the fact that everyone is telling you the same thing, more or less.

You have the ability to write, your grammar is fine, and you have the kernel of a fine story here, but it's all buried under impenetrable prose. You may enjoy writing this way, in which case there's nothing much anyone can tell you, but most people don't like it.

I'll try to explain why.

Your first paragraph illustrates the problem:

"If depression is merely anger without enthusiasm, then anxiety is merely fear without reason, and this fear comes with an additive effect for those who are infected; for the greater the mystery that surrounds its source, the more pronounced the effect becomes. And unfortunately for her, Tracey was among the most qualified to showcase this truth."

First, this is a somewhat anachronistic way of starting a story. The 19th century is full of stories that start off with these sorts of broad propositions -- Jane Austen's line "It is a truth universally acknowledged . . . " at the beginning of Pride and Prejudice comes to mind -- but when I read a sentence like this it feels a little stiff.

The bigger problem with it, though, is that it's impenetrable. I re-read it and I still can't quite figure out what it means. If you are going to insert an authorial statement of this sort in a story, you better make sure the reader is going to get exactly what you mean (no reader misunderstands Jane Austen's opening line, for example), or you've lost the reader before the story has even begun. I don't quite understand how depression is merely anger without enthusiasm, and I certainly don't understand how, assuming that to be true, it follows that "anxiety is merely fear without reason." The second proposition makes more sense than the first, but it doesn't follow from it, so the use of the word "then" seems forced. So I'm lost not quite one-third of the way through the sentence, which takes us through several clauses joined by commas and then asks us to jump over a semicolon to a new broad proposition, which seems to be what you really want to say but doesn't clearly follow from what came before.

Then I stumble over the word "its." At first, I wonder if "its" refers to "mystery," but that doesn't make sense. It takes me a moment to dive back into the earlier part of your long sentence and figure out that "its" refers to "fear." I get what you're saying, but it takes a long time -- too long -- to reach that point.

Then, you cap it off with a sentence about Tracy, and I have to parse "this truth." Since you have not used the word "truth" previously, I have to figure out what this truth is. I do, but I have to backtrack to find what the phrase refers to. You use the word "showcase," but you're just telling us rather than showing us. So far nothing has been showcased.

Your opening paragraph requires the reader to jump back and forth amid multiple clauses, a semicolon, and the use of indefinite possessives and adjectives. It's too much work. Most readers are not going to enjoy this sort of writing.

Also, you're telling, not showing. You don't start showing until paragraph three.

I would recommend scrapping the broad propositions and long 19th century sentences altogether, unless (a) they are done skillfully enough that their meaning is in no doubt, or (b) you are writing for comic effect. Instead, dive right into Tracey's anxiety, and show it to us. Don't describe it. Describe how she behaves. Give us a very specific example of an incident that gave rise to her unreasoning fear, or that manifests it. You will draw us in, create a better impression, and make us more likely to stick with you.

beerlovr88 said:

Is this your way of suggesting that you had merely been exaggerating for the sake of emphasis? Mind you, this is all well and good, but keep my sense of humor out of it -- for in my defense, based solely on your previous stories, I just didn't think that you were capable of incorporating this type of literary ploy.

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Thank you for adding to my view count.

MelissaBaby said:

Thank you for adding to my view count.

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Indeed, judging solely by how often people want to discuss both their view count and story rating around here, I can't seem to shake off the impression that this is a rather sensitive subject for authors.

While I personally might not be able to relate, I still respect the sensitives of others so much that I abstain from voting entirely, because god forbid that a story might receive a 1 star vote.

What an odd story. As a fellow beer-lover (my only story is named after a beer) and academic, I tried to like it, but couldn't. One positive thing I can say is that it's different from the usual.

The dialogue is quite absurd in places. Not just Marshal but the others too, and the style of Lori's message: "I believe that I know of the person you seek, and to this end I must implore you..." - what century is the story supposed to be set in?!

Neither the characters nor their actions are at all convincing. I don't think that someone with such severe anxiety problems as Tracey does would behave as she did, especially in the last section.

Finally, despite being a bloke myself, I didn't find the story erotic.

I think that some of the criticism you've received here is a bit excessive. It looks like you've got on the wrong side of people.

I appreciate your focus on the opening paragraph. If you interpret this appreciation of mine as 'unreceptive' then that's most certainly your prerogative, but at the same time I still want to make a few points.

SimonDoom said:

I re-read it and I still can't quite figure out what it means.

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Exactly. You weren't suppose to read it in one setting and instantly understand. The meaning conveyed is a 'puzzle' of sorts that's specifically designed to provoke thought. If you want to try and re-read it again you can, and if not you can continue onward or even give up on the read altogether.

SimonDoom said:

I don't quite understand how depression is merely anger without enthusiasm

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If the phrase doesn't speak to you then it doesn't speak to you. I used it as a 'warning' or 'foreshadowing' of sorts, giving the reader the perfect opportunity to give up entirely on the read after two sentences. Simplicity bores me, and because of this variation in personal preference I opted for something more complex. One critic before you openly admitted to googling it, only to learn that the phrase itself is well known. As such, you can criticize it for 'not being able to understand it', and yet at the same time I'd still argue that the phrase is well known for a reason.

SimonDoom said:

Your opening paragraph requires the reader to jump back and forth amid multiple clauses, a semicolon, and the use of indefinite possessives and adjectives. It's too much work.

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It's amazing how much can be said about the opening paragraph. Two sentences. You claim that's it too much work and that you can't understand it after re-reading, the other guy wanted to google it and Melissa claims it made her eye twitch before claiming that I have no sense of humor.

The story was written because I like mysteries and I like complexity, and I published it solely because people seemed so offended by my criticism of other stories and so I thought I'd give them the opportunity to reciprocate. You have my unequivocal blessing to criticize the story however you see fit, and because it's all perfectly fine by me, I remain rather perplexed that people would respond with such hostility towards my own criticism of other stories.

hadruprider said:

I think that some of the criticism you've received here is a bit excessive. It looks like you've got on the wrong side of people.

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Ha. Are there any perks that might be obtained from being on the 'right side of people' or can I remain steadfast with my ways without experiencing any significant loss?

hadruprider said:

I tried to like it, but couldn't.

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What percentage of stories on literotica are you able to enjoy?

hadruprider said:

The dialogue is quite absurd in places. Not just Marshal but the others too, and the style of Lori's message: "I believe that I know of the person you seek, and to this end I must implore you..." - what century is the story supposed to be set in?!

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You call the story 'odd' and 'different from the usual', which I consider to be very high praise considering that this was the goal. I find that 'typical' rhetoric can be quite boring and overly simplistic, and so I took it upon myself to deviate. Clearly not everyone took kindly to this type of deviation.

hadruprider said:

I don't think that someone with such severe anxiety problems as Tracey does would behave as she did, especially in the last section.

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Absolutely. A hooker who is so enamored by a client that she randomly decides out of nowhere that she wants to be with him again without charging? This is absolutely a very unrealistic fantasy, borderline absurd, especially in the later sections. In hindsight perhaps I should have had a 'wizard' cast a spell on her for the sake of it being believable and then list story the story within the 'fantasy/ sci-fi' genre instead.

beerlovr88 said:

Indeed, judging solely by how often people want to discuss both their view count and story rating around here, I can't seem to shake off the impression that this is a rather sensitive subject for authors.

While I personally might not be able to relate, I still respect the sensitives of others so much that I abstain from voting entirely, because god forbid that a story might receive a 1 star vote.

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I didn't want to bring up ratings. Needless cruelty is your schtick, not mine.

I dunno - just something about the title of the story. It didn’t catch my eye or perk my interest at all. Strangely, it looked and felt as if it would be a topic a college psychology professor would give a lecture on before the Summer mid terms. Kant

Ah, you do have a sense of humour, good! And thanks for explaining what you were trying to do a bit more. In response to the percentage question, it's low, maybe 10%.

MelissaBaby said:

I didn't want to bring up ratings.

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At the same time you did want to bring up view count, and it's rather curious that you talk about said view count as if this variable would not in any way be related to ratings.

MelissaBaby said:

Needless cruelty is your schtick

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So what is it exactly that you think I've said that you'd be so motivated to classify as cruel? Because if bringing up ratings or view count is cruel then I'd be among the least cruel there is (at least when posting feedback for another story), and any way you want to try and spin it, the same can't be said about you.

MelissaBaby said:

the fact is, I get a lot of very positive comments about my characters being realistic and relatable.

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The fact is that you also get comments offering to give you '5 star reviews' if you show your tits, which makes me think that some of the other commentators might just be trying to play the long game.

beerlovr88 said:

The story was written because I like mysteries and I like complexity, and I published it solely because people seemed so offended by my criticism of other stories and so I thought I'd give them the opportunity to reciprocate. You have my unequivocal blessing to criticize the story however you see fit, and because it's all perfectly fine by me, I remain rather perplexed that people would respond with such hostility towards my own criticism of other stories.

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Beerlovr:

Please understand, my basic philosophy is that this is an erotic story website where you should feel free to publish and read stories that turn you on. There's no objective standard of right and wrong. If you like or get turned on by the stories you submit, then good for you.

But you asked for comments. There's a common theme to the comments you've gotten, but you seem determined to reject the theme of those comments.

You received a 3.31 score for your story, despite the fact that you obviously are literate enough and capable enough with the English language to do better than that. That's a low score, and there's a reason it's low.

If, despite reader and commenter reaction, you want to continue writing stories in this way, then I have no criticism to offer. You are free to write stories in whatever way gives you satisfaction.

But if I were in your shoes, I'd listen really carefully to the criticism. I submitted a story for feedback on this forum and got some criticism that surprised me and made me uncomfortable. It was more negative than I expected. But I thought about it a lot, and I realized that most of my critics were right. I've been thinking about that criticism ever since. I think about it while I work on my new stories. I hope that my new stories show improvement that reflects a response to the criticism I've received. We'll see about that.

Good luck with your future stories.

beerlovr88 said:

At the same time you did want to bring up view count, and it's rather curious that you talk about said view count as if this variable would not in any way be related to ratings.

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You are remarkably obtuse. You made a snide remark about my writing. I thanked you for adding to my views. In other words, you may have looked at my stories in order to find something to knock, but at least you looked at my stories.

beerlovr88 said:

So what is it exactly that you think I've said that you'd be so motivated to classify as cruel? Because if bringing up ratings or view count is cruel then I'd be among the least cruel there is (at least when posting feedback for another story), and any way you want to try and spin it, the same can't be said about you.

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Examples of your unnecessarily cruel and mean spirited comments litter the board.

beerlovr88 said:

The fact is that you also get comments offering to give you '5 star reviews' if you show your tits, which makes me think that some of the other commentators might just be trying to play the long game.

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I received one such comment. I did not show the reviewer my tits and am unable to verify whether or not he gave me a 5 star rating. At the least, he did not imply that female authors owe their favorable ratings to such factors. Such an implication might not rise to the level of cruelty, but it certainly clears the bar for asininity.

beerlovr88 said:

Indeed, judging solely by how often people want to discuss both their view count and story rating around here, I can't seem to shake off the impression that this is a rather sensitive subject for authors.

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It's the only measure there is as to how well a story has been received by the readers.

It's not a brilliant measure, but there is a surprisingly high level of uniformity in the response patterns. For example, it's a reasonable rule of thumb that you can expect one vote per hundred views, one comment per thousand. If your vote/view ratio and comments count goes up, it generally tells you the story is better or worse than others of similar ilk - folk will tell you if they really like it or really don't - content in the middle of the curve usually gets silence.

What this actually tells anybody and what they do with it is up to individual writers to decide, but it is a measure, of sorts. Sure, it varies across categories, and some categories have their own unique response patterns, but the score/views is Literotica's method of natural selection.

Kantarii said:

I dunno - just something about the title of the story. It didn’t catch my eye or perk my interest at all. Strangely, it looked and felt as if it would be a topic a college psychology professor would give a lecture on before the Summer mid terms. Kant

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The story shares its title with an article that was discussed at some length on the AH a few months ago. The article was easier to read.

Unreadable. Return to slush pile after 50 words. Not erotic, dialogue inept, wordy. Could be reduced by 50% and marginally improved.

It takes a lot to make me ignore someone.

The title of this thread is "All Thoughts Are Welcome", but of course they aren't. You are condescending, insulting and prone to defending the indefensible. You chose a particularly stultifying and difficult style just to be different? Are you writing stories so they won't be read? On purpose?

The fact of the matter is that you can't seem to write very entertaining prose (an opinion shared by most of us here, even those trying to be kind, at least some of whom, perhaps all, are much more intelligent and knowledgeable than you). This may not reflect on your critical abilities but your reactions in this thread have demonstrated that you actually do lack the capacity to provide valuable, helpful or even polite criticism. In simple terms, the story proves you can't do and your reactions on this thread prove you can't teach.

You have also demonstrated that you don't understand why authors post here (there's a thread on that you might like to read) but feel you can be superior nevertheless even though you lack the necessary empathy to teach - which, after all, is the point of criticism.

beerlovr88 said:

. Can I remain steadfast with my ways without experiencing any significant loss?

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This thread has gone on and on with seemingly as likely a successful outcome as a drunken lecher in a nunnery. I would suggest you quit while you’re behind.

Emirus said:

This thread has gone on and on with seemingly as likely a successful outcome as a drunken lecher in a nunnery. I would suggest you quit while you’re behind.

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Well, and several others here who both want to give critique and receive it--and then argue about it interminably.

electricblue66 said:

What this actually tells anybody and what they do with it is up to individual writers to decide, but it is a measure, of sorts. Sure, it varies across categories, and some categories have their own unique response patterns, but the score/views is Literotica's method of natural selection.

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As someone who writes multi-chapter series (and it's starting to look like at least one loooong multi-chapter series, I think the ratings are helpful, because it's a reasonable assumption that, once you are several chapters in, you are writing to a group that has been following along. Any significant fluctuation could indicate whether or not they are pleased with the direction of the narrative.

Or, since I'm just a girl writer, that I should show my tits more, or less, as the case may be.

MelissaBaby said:

Or, since I'm just a girl writer, that I should show my tits more, or less, as the case may be.

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Don't you know that's what we girl writers are for- showing our tits, flashing some leg, inserting subordinate clauses in our denouements.
I mean, women write for women and men write for everyone else, right?