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Article on cuckold fantasies

policywank said:
Ya, I think we can drop the definitions debate.

before you know it someone is join to say unicorns don't really exist
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Well they don't. That's just stupid.

Now the Easter bunny on the other hand? Only haters deny he exists.
 
ProxyAccount said:
Infidelity was involved in over half of divorces, even when it was not the primary cause.

Percent of marriages where one or both spouses admit to infidelity, either physical or emotional: 41%
Percent of men who admit to committing infidelity in any relationship they've had: 57%
Percentage of women who admit to committing infidelity in any relationship they've had: 54%
Percent of married men who have strayed at least once during their married lives: 22%
Percent of married women who have strayed at least once during their married lives: 14%
Percentage of men and women who admit to having an affair with a co-worker: 36%
Percentage of men and women who admit to infidelity on business trips: 35%
Percentage of men and women who admit to infidelity with a brother-in-law or sister-in-law: 17%
Average length of an affair: 2 years
Percentage of marriages that last after an affair has been admitted to or discovered: 31%
Percentage of men who say they would have an affair if they knew they would never get caught: 74%
Percentage of women who say they would have an affair if they knew they would never get caught: 68%
Percent of children who are the product of infidelity: 3%
(Journal of Marital and Family Therapy, January 1, 2014)
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I have been unable to find one University or Family Law Study that verifies the percentages you've stated..

According to a recent University of Washington study, men site infidelity 15% of the time as the reason for divorce, whereas women site it 23% of the time.

According to a the study from the UC Berkeley department of Sociology.

Top reasons why American women said they'd gotten divorced.
Communication problems (69.7 percent)
Incompatible (56 percent)
Emotional abuse (55 percent)
Financial problems (33 percent)
Sexual problems (32 percent)
Alcohol or drug abuse (30 percent)
Infidelity (25 percent)
Physical abuse (22 percent)

Top reasons why American men said they'd gotten divorced.
Communication problems (60 percent)
Incompatible (45 percent)
Sexual problems (38 percent)
Financial problems (30 percent)
Emotional abuse (25 percent)
Alcohol or drug abuse (22 percent)

For men infidelity didn't rate high enough to be cited as a primary cause for divorce in this study.

To answer your objection before you make it. The percentage add up to more than 100% because most people have numerous reasons for divorcing.

My personally belief is the root cause of most divorces is financial. If you talk to any Family Law Attorney whose clients are women, you'll find many cite what I call financial infidelity as the reason for divorce. The husband hiding money and/or assets or him making financial commitments, such as expensive purchases, without first consulting her.
 
lovecraft68 said:
Have you seen the movie Rise of the Guardians?

Great movie, your kids would like it, but it was enjoyable for adults too.
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Yes, the kids have and my son really liked it. I recorded it off one of our cable channels a while ago. Unfortunately we had to get a new box, so it's gone. I keep scouting the $3 and $5 bins, but haven't found it yet.
 
policywank said:
This is actually a very important point. Most of us at one point or another in a relationship and in the right circumstances are vulnerable to cheating. I now this sounds kind of harsh but if nobody wants to fuck you or you live on your own in the wilderness it isn't real hard to avoid temptation now is it.

There are an awful lot of pious people who might not be so perfect if they found themselves on a deserted island with Brad Pitt or Megan Fox.
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Megan is fine with me.;)

Wouldn't it been nice if everyone would have stuck to PennLady's post. I surely haven't learned anything about the cuckold fetish, I don't even like calling it a fetish.

If I wanted to write a story about a man who loved his wife but was turned on by her having sex with others I'd be clueless. I could write the sex but I'd rather explore the why and wherefores of both partners, adding in the sex to spice up the story.

To bad this thread left me clueless.
 
Dyslexicea said:
Megan is fine with me.;)

Wouldn't it been nice if everyone would have stuck to PennLady's post. I surely haven't learned anything about the cuckold fetish, I don't even like calling it a fetish.

If I wanted to write a story about a man who loved his wife but was turned on by her having sex with others I'd be clueless. I could write the sex but I'd rather explore the why and wherefores of both partners, adding in the sex to spice up the story.

To bad this thread left me clueless.
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Well that's the thing, isn't it?

I'm a guy. I'm married. I've shared. The thing is, I never got off on the sharing. To me, it was just equitable. If I'm nut deep in this lady over here, then it's only really fair that the wife gets to sample so strange dick. I'm not that bothered about it, since I know who she is going home with.

So, given that, I don't really understand the underlying emotion kick that some guys seem to have over cuckolding. Those stories about guys helping their wives get ready for another guy just leave me going "WTF is going on here?" Because I have zero relatable experience or desire.

And it is a deep rooted emotional thing for some guys. I think some guys get off on the fact that their wife is desired, and they are the ones that have them. Her fucking some other guy is the ultimate expression of it.

I think other guys just like to watch their wife / SO get off. Most of the time, when you are doing the getting off, it's often physically hard to watch or just be there with her, if you understand what I mean. The mechanics of what you are doing take precedence over watching her face or whatever. I certainly enjoyed watching my wife cum, but while that's true, it didn't fufil me or make my experience any better - I just appreciated that she was getting hers while I was getting mine, so to speak.

I think that's another group of guys who get off on the humiliation and risk. Sending their wife out to fuck someone else is a risky proposition. Will she come back? What if she finds a cock that sends her into orbit? You have no idea what is going on, what they are talking about and so on. You just have to trust that she tells you the truth when she returns. If she does. There are plenty of stories on Lit where she does not. A really good series on this subject is the series by xleglover - that's definitely all about the latter type of man.

I don't honestly get it myself. I know there is a feeling or emotion that drives this that I don't have. I'm curious, from an anthropological point of view, but not enough to want to try it; I don't think I'd like the person I might become if the wife dropped into bed at 2am oozing someone else's cum. I suspect I'd react very very negatively to that. No, I KNOW I would.

I don't get it. But, like so many things, I don't get Religious arguments, I don't get Ann Coulter and I don't understand why Reese Witherspoon still gets acting work, since she's so wooden - so really it's one more thing that I don't have to deal with.

Although, from a writing point of view, not having a clue what drives this is a bit limiting, it has to be said.
 
Dyslexicea said:
I have been unable to find one University or Family Law Study that verifies the percentages you've stated..
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I find that rather hard to believe.... One survey was published in the Journal of Marital and Family Therapy (January 1, 2014) and the 2011 Grant Thornton Matrimonial Survey (UK). There was Mark et al (2011), a 2007 public survey by MSNBC/iVillage ("Love, Lust, & Loyalty"), the 1991 University of Chicago General Social Survey, a 1989 cross-cultural survey by L. Betzig which found that infidelity was the most cited cause of divorce across different cultures, Kelley & Conley (1987) found that the percentage of divorces in which infidelity played a part varied from 25% to 50% in Western countries, and Thompson's 1983 study, published in the Journal of Sex Research, that examined 12 studies to find the common causes of men and women seeking extramarital sex.

According to a recent University of Washington study, men site infidelity 15% of the time as the reason for divorce, whereas women site it 23% of the time.
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Which is interesting, because it closely follows some reported rates of sexual infidelity by women and men, respectively, rather than infidelity in general. If we were to believe that almost all of those having sexual affairs are caught, it would fit quite nicely. However, that is not the case. Moreover, other studies such as Cano (2000) have noted that infidelity (and separation) can precipitate major depressive episodes and symptoms of nonspecific depression and anxiety. This might suggest that the consequences of infidelity can cause additional problems that divorce might be attributed to.

According to a the study from the UC Berkeley department of Sociology.

Top reasons why American women said they'd gotten divorced.
Communication problems (69.7 percent)
Incompatible (56 percent)
Emotional abuse (55 percent)
Financial problems (33 percent)
Sexual problems (32 percent)
Alcohol or drug abuse (30 percent)
Infidelity (25 percent)
Physical abuse (22 percent)

Top reasons why American men said they'd gotten divorced.
Communication problems (60 percent)
Incompatible (45 percent)
Sexual problems (38 percent)
Financial problems (30 percent)
Emotional abuse (25 percent)
Alcohol or drug abuse (22 percent)

For men infidelity didn't rate high enough to be cited as a primary cause for divorce in this study.

To answer your objection before you make it. The percentage add up to more than 100% because most people have numerous reasons for divorcing.
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Again, there are a number of studies with different questions and different ways that a participant can self-select. Here is the 2011 Grant Thornton Matrimonial Survey results for the question asking solicitors for the three most common reasons for their clients' marital breakdowns:
Growing apart / falling out of love 27%
Extra marital affair 25%
Unreasonable behaviour 17%
Mid-life crisis 10%
Emotional / physical abuse 6%
Financial / money worries 5%
Work-holism 4%
Family strains 2%
Stress 2%
Business problems 1%
Other 1%

A more comprehensive study was presented in Amato (2003), published in the Journal of Family Issues, which examined people's reasons for divorcing.

People’s Reasons for Divorcing: Gender, Social Class, the Life Course, and Adjustment

PAUL R. AMATO
DENISE PREVITI

The Pennsylvania State University

ABSTRACT
We used national panel data collected between 1980 and 1997 to classify 208 people’s open-ended responses to a question on why their marriages ended in divorce. Infidelity was the most commonly reported cause, followed by incompatibility, drinking or drug use, and growing apart. People’s specific reasons for divorcing varied with gender, social class, and life course variables. Former husbands and wives were more likely to blame their ex-spouses than themselves for the problems that led to the divorce. Former husbands and wives claimed, however, that women were more likely to have initiated the divorce. People who attributed the cause of the divorce to the relationship itself, rather than to internal (self) or external factors, tended to have the best [post-divorce] adjustment.

[...]

DISCUSSION
Our study, based on a national sample of individuals followed for 17 years, replicates several findings from earlier studies based on less extensive samples. For example, in this study, infidelity emerged as the most commonly reported cause of divorce—a finding noted in an early review by Kitson, Babri, and Roach (1985). This finding is also consistent with a longitudinal study showing that infidelity among married couples is the strongest predictor of later divorce (Amato & Rogers, 1997). Present research cannot determine whether infidelity is a cause or a consequence of estrangement between spouses, and trying to solve this issue is beyond the scope of this article. The important point is that many people think that infidelity is the cause of divorce. Infidelity appears to play a central role in many people’s understandings of how their marriages unravel, and individuals who cite infidelity as a cause of divorce show poorer adjustment than individuals who cite other causes.
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My personally belief is the root cause of most divorces is financial. If you talk to any Family Law Attorney whose clients are women, you'll find many cite what I call financial infidelity as the reason for divorce. The husband hiding money and/or assets or him making financial commitments, such as expensive purchases, without first consulting her.
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I think that financial stresses can exacerbate existing problems in a marriage. If a spouse cannot feel financially secure, it might undermine emotional security. However, this undermining effect can spread from other causes. For example, if a married individual is feeling (rightly or wrongly) that they cannot trust their spouse's fidelity, then other issues that are trust-dependent will certainly arise.

Many of these problems might also be related to immaturity. A spouse that is impulsive in his or her buying habits may create problems for the marriage. That immaturity might affect other areas of decision-making, including fidelity, thus creating a viscous, destructive circle.
 
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sr71plt said:
You were pretty clueless about men before you walked into this thread. (Sorry, that was too easy--and you can just write it up to payback. :D)
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Speaking of clueless, a guy who lives his life according to a dictionary.
 
littlecordelera said:
The only people who really care how the term "cuckold" is defined are those outside of the lifestyle, and for some odd reason, it is a big deal to them. It's so weird that those outside of a subculture are so desperately intimidated by what goes on inside the subculture. And therein is where the real problem lies.

SR71PLT wrote, "I am particularly dismissive of any efforts to connect it with the man wanting his wife to be happy. That sounds like the wife's rationalizing perspective of what's going on."

To have made that statement makes it abundantly clear that he (he?) doesn't have a clue what he's talking about. Him telling me what constitutes cuckolding is like a rich, white kid in Salt Lake City trying to tell Gucci Mane what constitutes rap. It's preposterous.

Argue all you want. I thought it might be of interest to some of you to hear what the major portion of the Southeast and Vegas refers to as a "cuckold." I was wrong in thinking that my experience might be of value.
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You were not wrong. I appreciate the perspective and background. Unfortunately here and among those who comment on stories there are lots of disagreeable people. They don't represent me.
 
sr71plt said:
You were pretty clueless about men before you walked into this thread. (Sorry, that was too easy--and you can just write it up to payback. :D)
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Clueless about men, hardly, clueless about what motivates men, yes. I have said so in previous post so I guess what you've typed isn't a major revelation.
 
Dyslexicea said:
Wouldn't it been nice if everyone would have stuck to PennLady's post. I surely haven't learned anything about the cuckold fetish, I don't even like calling it a fetish.
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I expect pretty much any thread in any forum to go off the rails, and this one was no exception. When it comes to extra-marital sex, whether it is someone cheating on the side or mutually agreed on and desired by both parties, it divides people and raises a lot of emotions.

I wrote a short story, one of my first, called "Guilt," about a couple that reconciles after a man has cheated. They weren't married or even engaged, but they were a couple; the affair had taken place before the story. It got interesting reactions because people seemed to sympathize with both of the characters, even the guy, and were almost upset about it. Which to me seems to indicate that it's not the black-and-white subject people want it to be.

I'm not sure I'd call this desire to see one's wife with another a cuckold fetish either. For one thing, although certainly the definitions of things change, to me a cuckold is someone who is unaware of the cheating. If you know and desire it or encourage it, then you're into open-marriage territory, or swinging, or something, but not cuckolding.

I also can't and won't pretend to know why some people are into this kind of thing, but it doesn't matter much to me. If it's mutual and everyone's a consenting adult, then okay.

Like I said way back when, what I thought was interesting about the original letter I linked to was that this guy was quite upfront about things. He enjoyed seeing his wife with other men; you don't have to like it, nor do I, but we don't get to slam him for it.
 
PennLady said:
I expect pretty much any thread in any forum to go off the rails, and this one was no exception. When it comes to extra-marital sex, whether it is someone cheating on the side or mutually agreed on and desired by both parties, it divides people and raises a lot of emotions.

I wrote a short story, one of my first, called "Guilt," about a couple that reconciles after a man has cheated. They weren't married or even engaged, but they were a couple; the affair had taken place before the story. It got interesting reactions because people seemed to sympathize with both of the characters, even the guy, and were almost upset about it. Which to me seems to indicate that it's not the black-and-white subject people want it to be.

I'm not sure I'd call this desire to see one's wife with another a cuckold fetish either. For one thing, although certainly the definitions of things change, to me a cuckold is someone who is unaware of the cheating. If you know and desire it or encourage it, then you're into open-marriage territory, or swinging, or something, but not cuckolding.

I also can't and won't pretend to know why some people are into this kind of thing, but it doesn't matter much to me. If it's mutual and everyone's a consenting adult, then okay.

Like I said way back when, what I thought was interesting about the original letter I linked to was that this guy was quite upfront about things. He enjoyed seeing his wife with other men; you don't have to like it, nor do I, but we don't get to slam him for it.
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I'll have to read your story.

Peoples moral beliefs are rarely black and white. Even those who preach their morals as gospel find themselves in a dilemma when faced with one of their own beliefs in their own life. I have an older friend who I met because we are both active in the pro-choice movement, at one time she was actively anti-choice, her own daughter at thirteen became pregnant, seeing the reality of her child's life completely changed her views.

I tend to agree the term cuckolding doesn't really fit, it really does seem to be a demeaning term.

Personally I would never apply cuckold to a man who was being cheated upon and although I do believe at times cheating can be morally justified, rarely may I add, I don't see how a man who is the one being cheated on should have a term applied to him which demeans him.
 
Dyslexicea said:
Peoples moral beliefs are rarely black and white. Even those who preach their morals as gospel find themselves in a dilemma when faced with one of their own beliefs in their own life. I have an older friend who I met because we are both active in the pro-choice movement, at one time she was actively anti-choice, her own daughter at thirteen became pregnant, seeing the reality of her child's life completely changed her views.
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Once you accept that life isn't sacred at all, that it can extinguished by the force of emotions, by the force of law, the force of economics, or by sheer random chance, pro-choice and pro-life becomes pretty meaningless. We need to deal with the reality of our choices and the consequences to them. In biomedical engineering there is the issue of modifying and cloning life. Are we ready to handle these ethical issues? Not really, but we are often forced to when we play god with life.

I tend to agree the term cuckolding doesn't really fit, it really does seem to be a demeaning term.

Personally I would never apply cuckold to a man who was being cheated upon and although I do believe at times cheating can be morally justified, rarely may I add, I don't see how a man who is the one being cheated on should have a term applied to him which demeans him.
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Hold on for a second. The individual being cheated upon is being demeaned by his or her cheating partner. His or her situation is, by its nature, demeaning. Isn't it simply honest to use a term that has negative connotations ("cuckold" or "cucquean")? Or should people use the generic term "victim" out of some sense of political correctness? Example: "She was a victim of his infidelity." Should we eventually start referring to those cheated upon as "survivors of infidelity", rather than the 'demeaning' descriptor of "victim"?
 
ProxyAccount said:
Once you accept that life isn't sacred at all, that it can extinguished by the force of emotions, by the force of law, the force of economics, or by sheer random chance, pro-choice and pro-life becomes pretty meaningless. We need to deal with the reality of our choices and the consequences to them. In biomedical engineering there is the issue of modifying and cloning life. Are we ready to handle these ethical issues? Not really, but we are often forced to when we play god with life.


Hold on for a second. The individual being cheated upon is being demeaned by his or her cheating partner. His or her situation is, by its nature, demeaning. Isn't it simply honest to use a term that has negative connotations ("cuckold" or "cucquean")? Or should people use the generic term "victim" out of some sense of political correctness? Example: "She was a victim of his infidelity." Should we eventually start referring to those cheated upon as "survivors of infidelity", rather than the 'demeaning' descriptor of "victim"?
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I think what is escaping you is that many cucks are willing ones and get off on the humiliation and you do not have to understand the How and why of it

One of my first posts on that this thread was the comparison of a cuck marriage to a d/s rrelationship. I would not want to know what you think you know about bdsm

Your problem as well as pilots is you're trying to apply black and white rules to a gray world.
 
lovecraft68 said:
I think what is escaping you is that many cucks are willing ones and get off on the humiliation and you do not have to understand the How and why of it

One of my first posts on that this thread was the comparison of a cuck marriage to a d/s rrelationship. I would not want to know what you think you know about bdsm

Your problem as well as pilots is you're trying to apply black and white rules to a gray world.
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It has nothing to do with members of a fetish subculture. The issue was the referring of cheated-on men (or women) as "cuckold" being demeaning, and therefore whether the term should not be used... perhaps out of a sense of political correctness, concern with appearances, or 'feelings'. When the act that makes them cuckold (or cucquean) is demeaning and psychologically damaging in and of itself, so why shouldn't we call a spade, a spade? When we diminish the appearance of harm, do we not diminish the seriousness of the harm?
 
PennLady said:
I expect pretty much any thread in any forum to go off the rails, and this one was no exception. When it comes to extra-marital sex, whether it is someone cheating on the side or mutually agreed on and desired by both parties, it divides people and raises a lot of emotions.

I'm not sure I'd call this desire to see one's wife with another a cuckold fetish either. For one thing, although certainly the definitions of things change, to me a cuckold is someone who is unaware of the cheating. If you know and desire it or encourage it, then you're into open-marriage territory, or swinging, or something, but not cuckolding.

Like I said way back when, what I thought was interesting about the original letter I linked to was that this guy was quite upfront about things. He enjoyed seeing his wife with other men; you don't have to like it, nor do I, but we don't get to slam him for it.
Click to expand...

I actually unsubscribed from this thread for a while because of how far off the rails it went. I found the original article interesting because of its definition of "cuckold." I believe that definition is a moving target that's expanding to include most definitions of a MFM or MMF relationship. Some appear resistant to definitions changing and seem steadfast in declaring anyone who uses a term differently is automatically wrong and should be dismissed. Whatever, that's on them.

The "cheating" aspect of the thread wrongly surprised me. After reviewing the original article again, Lehmiller does appear to declare the phenomenon of a woman having sex with another man's partner as "cheating." I take issue with that. I don't believe someone is "cheating" if they are doing it openly and I believe "cheating" becomes even more difficult to cry if the other male is participating as a voyeur.

Lehmiller is writing about a pop culture phenomenon and playing it fast and loose with definitions. Perhaps, in part, he is playing with the shock value of "cuckold" and "cheating" as a way of eliciting a deeper consideration or merely as a journalistic ploy to gain greater readership. I think both worked.

As for writing cuckold style stories and the cuck subculture, I believe most will find it rather diverse with loads of subcultures within the subculture. I can't call myself an expert, but a large proportion of my stories include themes that could easily be generalized as "cuckoldry." It gets even more confusing if we consider bisexual men. Are they automatically cuckolds? Do cuckolds automatically qualify as bisexual men because they are often required to play clean-up and orally prep the woman's partner? Where's the line between a bisexual man and a cuckold?

The reactions of commentators to my stories has been as informative to me as a thread like this. My first Loving Wives submission: Doing It for You received lots of cries that the husband was somehow less of a man and probably a cuckold because he allowed his wife to participate in a gang-bang porn shoot as the only female. However, the husband didn't play clean-up, didn't interact with the multitude of men and never reacted to anything more than how exciting he found his wife. The opposing views in LW were vicious.

Meanwhile, with Monica Meets a Cumslut and the oddly titled Needlepoint and Creampie, the male characters never touch the other men. But they sure love exploring their "used" partners. Does that automatically qualify them as cuckolds? I don't think so, but then again, I don't get to decide definitions for everyone else.

In the stories above, I received comments from people asking if I would push the story in another direction that encompassed their favorite aspect of the kink. The same has happened to my incest pieces (since pulled from Lit for my own reasons). In many of those, I'd hear from readers who wanted the woman to get pregnant because that's their thrill. Personally, I find that repugnant. (I've struggled with incest material on lots of levels, though, which is partly why I removed them.)

Much of the humiliation factor that becomes a part of some cuckold play annoys me for quickly becoming so fraught with racist and crude stereotypes. To a lesser extent, I struggle with some BDSM play for similar reasons. I have a problem whenever someone suggests one human is less than another human. We may be differently equipped, skilled and motivated, but I agree with America's founding fathers when they signed off on the idea, "All men are created equal." Especially if we can accept the word "man" as a generic substitute for "human."

For the record, I happen to be a married, bisexual man in a relationship that has included substantial "lifestyle" oriented play through the years. It's clear it didn't work out for us. :rolleyes: We've only managed staying married for 27 years and counting. :eek: And we're still running behind lifestyle friends of ours who got married sooner than we did.
 
For the curious - I looked up the author of the original article. For those who missed reading who he was, it was at the bottom of the original article: "Justin Lehmiller, PhD is a sex educator and researcher at Harvard University and author of The Psychology of Human Sexuality blog."

Meanwhile, I followed links back to his blog; The Psychology of Human Sexuality. While there, I found his blog entry introducing the article he wrote for Playboy: Cuckold Fantasies: Not Your Typical Threesome

Thought the curious might appreciate the links. :)
 
PennLady said:
Like I said way back when, what I thought was interesting about the original letter I linked to was that this guy was quite upfront about things. He enjoyed seeing his wife with other men; you don't have to like it, nor do I, but we don't get to slam him for it.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I think I mixed this up with a letter I'd seen in Dan Savage's column a week or two ago that was on the same topic.
 
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