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Old 05-19-2018, 05:21 AM   #1
JasonClearwater
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Refreshing a genre

Just watching 'Cargo', (Aussie film), starring Martin Freeman, and I would say, for me, it's refreshed the Zombie genre. I thought I'd seen enough, but the way it's written, cast, and directed, makes it far more interesting than any Hollywood zombie film I've seen of late.

Have you read a book, or seen a TV show that's done that for you? Taken a tired genre and made it interesting again?
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Old 05-19-2018, 05:27 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by JasonClearwater View Post
Just watching 'Cargo', (Aussie film), starring Martin Freeman, and I would say, for me, it's refreshed the Zombie genre. I thought I'd seen enough, but the way it's written, cast, and directed, makes it far more interesting than any Hollywood zombie film I've seen of late.

Have you read a book, or seen a TV show that's done that for you? Taken a tired genre and made it interesting again?
No.
Something that could make the zombie thing interesting again would has to be HUGELY fun. Link for non-Aussies (subtitled - I doesn't grasp speech)?
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Old 05-19-2018, 05:31 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by FaeLissa View Post
No.
Something that could make the zombie thing interesting again would has to be HUGELY fun. Link for non-Aussies (subtitled - I doesn't grasp speech)?
It's on US Netflix, if that helps.

Trailer here (also subtitled): https://youtu.be/VFnS_qGqNUs

Edited to add - it's grim, more than 'fun', but it's good. Real. Gritty.

Edited again: First trailer link was wrong. Different 'Cargo'.
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Old 05-19-2018, 05:41 AM   #4
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Yes. Not really sure what you'd call the genre, but something along the lines of "The Lion The Witch And The Wardrobe". I started a novel along those lines in terms of being able to escape life and go to another realm. But I've only gotten a few chapters written. Just seem kind of stuck.
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Old 05-19-2018, 05:41 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by JasonClearwater View Post
It's on US Netflix, if that helps.

Trailer here (also subtitled): https://youtu.be/VFnS_qGqNUs

Edited to add - it's grim, more than 'fun', but it's good. Real. Gritty.

Edited again: First trailer link was wrong. Different 'Cargo'.
"fun" is meaning "can be enjoyed". TY for the link. Will has Ancient Guardian look (I isn't scared of scary - just people , but ya know how it is when peoples gots to make sure stuff is kay )

TY
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Old 05-19-2018, 05:48 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Jada59 View Post
Yes. Not really sure what you'd call the genre, but something along the lines of "The Lion The Witch And The Wardrobe". I started a novel along those lines in terms of being able to escape life and go to another realm. But I've only gotten a few chapters written. Just seem kind of stuck.
Would that be young-adult fantasy, or something more specific? Myths and legends?
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Old 05-19-2018, 05:50 AM   #7
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Would that be young-adult fantasy, or something more specific? Myths and legends?
Young adult, probably. My aim was to get my daughter to help me write it, but writing is just not her thing.
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Old 05-19-2018, 06:04 AM   #8
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Yes. Not really sure what you'd call the genre, but something along the lines of "The Lion The Witch And The Wardrobe". I started a novel along those lines in terms of being able to escape life and go to another realm. But I've only gotten a few chapters written. Just seem kind of stuck.
Me and Ancient Guardian has been collaborating on a story of that ilk. Having the people know what is going on as soon as the transition happens failed so bad! (See "Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court" and such drivel for reasons why.)

We chose that the person transferred to new life is not aware of anything about the new world they is in - even has to learn the language. Is many chapters and months later before anything of interest to a historian happens (hero has interesting stuffs, of course, but is not gonna showed up to historians).

The biggest thing we worked on is avoid the "hero from another realm" trope. The person what moved realms is no more special than the peoples of the realm they come into, they's just confused as hell.

"Destined Hero from nother realm" is so horrible a thing. If they is a hero, make them a hero for their own stuffs (and the help of companions they finds), not destiny.
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Old 05-19-2018, 06:22 AM   #9
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Young adult, probably. My aim was to get my daughter to help me write it, but writing is just not her thing.
Ah, the search to find someone to share your passion with. A shame your daughter isn't that keen.
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Old 05-19-2018, 06:25 AM   #10
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Ah, the search to find someone to share your passion with. A shame your daughter isn't that keen.
Yeah. That's okay. She has her own interests.
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Old 05-19-2018, 07:30 AM   #11
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Walking Dead, first the comic, then the show was a refreshing take on the fittingly undying annoyance known as Zombie films, but has now beaten itself into a dead horse.

First thing that comes to mind is Blair Witch project which of course birthed the found footage style of horror movie, which I liked because it reminded me of the way Lovecraft stories were written, usually from the perspective of someone documenting the story. It always created 'shaky cam'

People credit Meyers with that sparkly pussy vampire genre that exploded into countless copy cats, but the true creator of that was Anne Rice who gave us the sensitive, mopey, woe is me weeping pathetic vamps Meyers borrowed from and aged down into tween status.

If anyone says 50 shades I will hunt you down, hold you down and let Jason hump your leg until he's spent....and I'll be supplying him with viagra.
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Old 05-19-2018, 07:43 AM   #12
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If anyone says 50 shades I will hunt you down, hold you down and let Jason hump your leg until he's spent....and I'll be supplying him with viagra.
He's not even lying.
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Old 05-19-2018, 08:12 AM   #13
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Me and Ancient Guardian has been collaborating on a story of that ilk. Having the people know what is going on as soon as the transition happens failed so bad! (See "Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court" and such drivel for reasons why.)

We chose that the person transferred to new life is not aware of anything about the new world they is in - even has to learn the language. Is many chapters and months later before anything of interest to a historian happens (hero has interesting stuffs, of course, but is not gonna showed up to historians).

The biggest thing we worked on is avoid the "hero from another realm" trope. The person what moved realms is no more special than the peoples of the realm they come into, they's just confused as hell.

"Destined Hero from nother realm" is so horrible a thing. If they is a hero, make them a hero for their own stuffs (and the help of companions they finds), not destiny.
The Talisman, co-written by King and Peter Straub, had a good version of the person from another realm being no big deal as far as being a hero. That's horror though, not fantasy, so probably a weak example.
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Old 05-19-2018, 08:21 AM   #14
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The Talisman, co-written by King and Peter Straub, had a good version of the person from another realm being no big deal as far as being a hero. That's horror though, not fantasy, so probably a weak example.
Is still better than "destined hero sucked into story for reasons". At least in horror no one expects the story to make sense - is just there for "can scare me?" (and freaks out when yes, they can).
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Old 05-19-2018, 08:42 AM   #15
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Mmm. I might go so far as to raise the name of Tolkien. There had been trolls, elves, dwarfs, wizards and dragons before, but he had the genius to respin them (and a couple of new races) into something quite new and special. It's hard to overstate his influence.
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Old 05-19-2018, 08:43 AM   #16
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Mmm. I might go so far as to raise the name of Tolkien. There had been trolls, elves, dwarfs, wizards and dragons before, but he had the genius to respin them (and a couple of new races) into something quite new and special. It's hard to overstate his influence.
True. But if we're talking 'now' (for the sake of argument), you could say that Tolkien's revival of the genre has run its course.
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Old 05-19-2018, 08:45 AM   #17
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Is still better than "destined hero sucked into story for reasons". At least in horror no one expects the story to make sense - is just there for "can scare me?" (and freaks out when yes, they can).
Where do you stand on Bastian Balthazar Bux?
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Old 05-19-2018, 08:57 AM   #18
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I don't think of Tolkien as having refreshed a genre so much as having created one. I'm not aware of any epic fantasy fiction remotely like LOTR before it came out. Virtually everything in the fantasy genre since owes a big debt to his work.

Game of Thrones is, to a degree, a refreshing update on the epic fantasy genre because of its grittiness and its emphasis on political scheming. And sex. LOTR was many things, but it was not sexy.
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Old 05-19-2018, 09:16 AM   #19
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I don't think of Tolkien as having refreshed a genre so much as having created one. I'm not aware of any epic fantasy fiction remotely like LOTR before it came out. Virtually everything in the fantasy genre since owes a big debt to his work.

Game of Thrones is, to a degree, a refreshing update on the epic fantasy genre because of its grittiness and its emphasis on political scheming. And sex. LOTR was many things, but it was not sexy.
Very true, GoT is a good example of refreshing a genre. Sexy... well, I'd argue, not so much. But that's a matter of taste.
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Old 05-19-2018, 09:21 AM   #20
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I don't think of Tolkien as having refreshed a genre so much as having created one. I'm not aware of any epic fantasy fiction remotely like LOTR before it came out. Virtually everything in the fantasy genre since owes a big debt to his work..
Check out The Worm Ouroborus by Eric Rücker Eddison, first published in 1922. More chivalry and heroic quest, but makes Aragorn and Boromir look like a pair of try hards.

Mervyn Peake published his Gormenghast trilogy a decade before LOTR - a far superior fantasy world, IMHO, much grittier, fantastic in a different way. And sex, especially in the third volume.

David Lindsay published A Voyage to Arcturus in 1920, metaphysical writing, seriously strange, but quite extraordinary.

C.S.Lewis with his three sci-fi novels.

All, for me, more interesting than Tolkien. But yes, much fantasy since is derivative of Tolkien.

The best "new" fantasy thing in the last thirty years, I reckon, where the first two Thomas Covenant trilogies.
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Old 05-19-2018, 09:29 AM   #21
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True. But if we're talking 'now' (for the sake of argument), you could say that Tolkien's revival of the genre has run its course.
Thanks to George Martin who took it to the nth degree filling it with rape, abuse of women in every way and way over the top torture, cruelty and blood. Shame that there are good story lines in there, but its turned into fantasy Tarantino style with look how gory I can make this and relying on nothing else at this point.

There's a youtube video where the slob rags on 'what Tolkien did wrong'

Know what Tolkien did right? He finished his books, something Martin will never do to the point HBO had to take a year off from the series to write their own ending.
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Old 05-19-2018, 09:30 AM   #22
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Where do you stand on Bastian Balthazar Bux?
I had to look it up - I like it. Isn't the usual "real-world-hero-saves-the-nother-world" story.
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Old 05-19-2018, 09:30 AM   #23
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A lot of people feel HP Lovecraft redefined a genre by creating 'cosmic horror' but everyone has influences and in some of his works you can see Machen and Lord Dunsany.
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Old 05-19-2018, 09:40 AM   #24
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Usually, making something “new” again or “refreshing” in a tired genre to me means the writer or director successfully mixed in a different genre that’s appealing or compliments the tired genre is some unique way.
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Old 05-19-2018, 09:43 AM   #25
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Thanks to George Martin who took it to the nth degree filling it with rape, abuse of women in every way and way over the top torture, cruelty and blood. Shame that there are good story lines in there, but its turned into fantasy Tarantino style with look how gory I can make this and relying on nothing else at this point.

There's a youtube video where the slob rags on 'what Tolkien did wrong'

Know what Tolkien did right? He finished his books, something Martin will never do to the point HBO had to take a year off from the series to write their own ending.
I am not even mad at GRRM for his crappy story - it was entertaining for the first few books. When he got it into a HBO story he just went "heck, why finish writing a mediocre fantasy epic when I can meander around about a rape and fighting story adn drop the plot - cool, let's do that"

Lots of peoples write crappy epic fantasy (hides her notes) but few go so far as to turn their story into the poop that became GoT cause the moneys was worth more than the story.

If that's what he's about, it's on him.

Does peoples like what his story became? Is on him - he was active in the making of GoT (and quit working on the story itself sos he could work on the show. sos can't excuse the show for not being 'true to his vision').

JRRT finished his very wordy stories, and didn't alter his ideas to make moneys.
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