Calling All Walkers... Dinner Is Served

I thought this episode was kind of boring. I do think the Governor has changed, or at least wants to think that he has. I could see his wanting to protect the girl getting obsessive as she is totally a stand in for his daughter, Penny. But he is still crazy on the inside, so who knows what will happen.

TD was pretty great with the actor who plays the Governor giving insights to his character.

I really enjoyed a "Governor" episode. I mean everybody wondered about where he might be. I personally like when stories delve deeply into the motivations and emotional turmoils of a "villain" character, rather than just having an evil guy who does evil just to do evil and stand evilly at the top of an evil building going "Mwah ha ha ha ha!"

Usually there's so much more to a bad guy. And often we find that a bad guy actually thinks HE is the good guy. I like exploring the complexity of these characters, because it kinda gets scary when you start to relate to them and understand why they do the things they do. It builds drama for the viewer.

That's not to say the governor ain't got his flaws. I liked on Talking Dead how he spoke of the Governor's crazy flip out where he shot his own people, how everyone has that breaking point. The governor's breaking point is just a bit more amplified and triggered by different things, and I agree when they said that he now sees his own flaws as a thing to keep in check.

I do think him shambling down the streets is kinda symbolic. He's lost everything, every hope for building a new society, every hope of his lost family, every faithful friend he ever had... pretty much most of his reasons for living. So in a sense... he felt no more alive than s walker. He basically became a walking corpse. I enjoyed the actor's insight on that moment when he and the walker in the street crossed paths, and he barely had just enough willpower left to "shoulder" it out of his way, just enough will to survive still.

I'm very interested in this family situation he's found himself in. I think he's interested in starting fresh, but not abandoning everything. As in, he's still at those fences, but he plans on being Governor 2.0 now. I don't think he's black and white. This bit with the family shows he's a good person and that he means well, but that his methods and his conception of survival won't be challenged by any.

I agree with the poster about people dying right after we meet them. I'd like to see more people involved and the story progress forward in that world as a result, not to have a billion side stories to keep up with, but more people apart of the central story. Lately, I haven't had time to really connect with a new character before they die, just a trend I would also like to see changed.

soflabbwlvr said:

Gov's batshit crazy. As soon as he gets a whiff of Michonne or lays his eye on Rick he'll go over the deep end again.

I liked the episode, but I hope the Gov's women last more than one episode. I'm getting a little tired of every new character getting killed as soon as we know their names.

I missed TD. Had to wait until 11 to see TWD. Maybe I'll catch it on demand this evening.

Click to expand...

LOL I do think something will happen to push him over the edge. I'm honestly not sure they'll kill him off. I have read that Morrissey will be in another AMC show, but he could do "double duty" for a while if the Governor is kept as a recurring problem, I suppose. Yes, I'd to see some more characters as more than just fodder.

One thing that bothers me a little is the family.

We are supposed to believe that they spent a time roughly equivalent to 2 years (at least one) in that apartment, eating spagetti-Os, beef jerky, and surviving the walkers.

That might have flown two seasons ago, but not now.

One thing I liked about the town that Guv'nuh was running was that everyone felt like they had a real story. The people who are still alive at this point are th e ones who were either lucky enough to be in a good place (like the farm from second season, or woodbury) with lots of people to protect them and find food. Otherwise, they had hard stories. I'm forgetting the name of the alcoholic guy who was with darryl, michonne, and tyrese, but his story seemed real, compelling. Being the last man to survive of two different groups.

When they find people who just live in a bubble until a character shows up, it feels unrealistic. I mean, the one chick didn't even know that you couldn't shoot walkers in the chest. And they were in a populated area, so if they had to keep going outside to grab more beans and franks, they should have attracted some attention.

This bugged me about the two that Rick and Carol met, too. If you are going to have characters who are still this naive about the walkers and the situation that they are in, you better have a damn good reason for it.

I think I even could have handled the story about the guv'nuh's new family if they had shown some trepidation about moving. If we are to believe them, they stayed cooped up in that little flat for 2 years, I could see being legitimately terrified about going outside after that long. Or showing them as being stir-crazy. Or being super-crazy-mistrustful of the governor. They were downright sloppy about trying to protect themselves, and he could have hurt them really easily if he had wanted to.

Also, am I the only one who thinks that beardy guv'nuh looks a little like the dude from Escape from LA?

http://t1.***********/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ3rKQzzO8FTT0pS8axjygVRvXQG5zulWIoRxE-38dUCjxAgc8A

http://t0.***********/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQii2U2yXvGWu-SiYAbGmn9YWSrxtd0G4XEa0zfr4Q5P8hVqLQmQA

Cruel2BKind said:

One thing that bothers me a little is the family.

We are supposed to believe that they spent a time roughly equivalent to 2 years (at least one) in that apartment, eating spagetti-Os, beef jerky, and surviving the walkers.

That might have flown two seasons ago, but not now.

Click to expand...

Yeah, that struck me as well. Especially since they live in an apartment building. Seems like, given what little we know, that would have been a bad place to be as things fell apart. Long narrow hallways, people in close quarters panicking, that sort of thing.

And I agree about them knowing how to destroy a walker. If nothing else, it seems like they should have discovered that they needed to destroy the brain at least by accident in the 18-24 months that have apparently passed so far.

Cruel2BKind said:

I'm forgetting the name of the alcoholic guy who was with darryl, michonne, and tyrese, but his story seemed real, compelling. Being the last man to survive of two different groups.

Click to expand...

That'd be Bob. And I think his survival serves two purposes. It makes it appear he's stronger than he looks, but it also casts a bit of suspicion on him. How and why did he survive? Did he kill the others? Did he run away when trouble hit? Or perhaps he was just lucky.

Cruel2BKind said:

When they find people who just live in a bubble until a character shows up, it feels unrealistic. I mean, the one chick didn't even know that you couldn't shoot walkers in the chest. And they were in a populated area, so if they had to keep going outside to grab more beans and franks, they should have attracted some attention.

This bugged me about the two that Rick and Carol met, too. If you are going to have characters who are still this naive about the walkers and the situation that they are in, you better have a damn good reason for it.

Click to expand...

The family could have raided the rest of the apartments, I guess, but I'm not sure that would keep you going for two years or whatever. So yeah, it seems like they should know more than they do. And I wonder how populated it could have been, if all that oxygen was left in the nursing home, etc. Seems like that'd be a place to be raided early on if only for medicine.

To an extent, I will go with the idea that some people will be oblivious or whatever longer than they should be, because, well, people are like that, but yeah, it's a bit of a deus ex machina or something.

Cruel2BKind said:

I think I even could have handled the story about the guv'nuh's new family if they had shown some trepidation about moving. If we are to believe them, they stayed cooped up in that little flat for 2 years, I could see being legitimately terrified about going outside after that long. Or showing them as being stir-crazy. Or being super-crazy-mistrustful of the governor. They were downright sloppy about trying to protect themselves, and he could have hurt them really easily if he had wanted to.

Click to expand...

Good point. I gather that they stayed b/c of the father, isn't that what the one woman said? He was too weak to go, but lasted longer than they expected, so they stayed, right? But yeah, this seems an instance of things happening the way the writers wanted them to, because they wanted them to, and not in a real organic, natural way.

Cruel2BKind said:

Also, am I the only one who thinks that beardy guv'nuh looks a little like the dude from Escape from LA?

Click to expand...

No, Hardwick brought that up on Talking Dead as well. I didn't think of it myself, but once someone says it, you wonder how you missed it.

OK I know that Talking Dead is still on at the time of this writing, but I just wanted to say....

HOLY MOTHER OF GOD!!!

I guess the most obvious thing on everyone's mind would have to be Herschel. So I guess I'll start there. Too much to discuss.

Something told me that Herschel's time was coming. Had no idea it would be quite that epic and emotional, and so damn brutal. I think what the actor said was spot on about when he heard Rick trying to barter for peace, that all of that humanity that he was trying to keep alive, all that morality had finally hit home. He smiled because he knew that no matter the outcome, people still had hope, and his little girls would be okay with Rick. I mean, figuratively, that's what I took from that scene.

Then of course his head was halfway chopped off by a madman called the Governor. Then it got completely hacked away. So brutal, so heartbreaking. I kind of find it sadly ironic that Herschel had to be victim to that very madness that he hoped wouldn't consume what was left of society. And Maggie? His little girls screaming at the fence? Intense. They had to watch their father executed. They delivered that emotion to perfectly. It was hard to watch.

Damn. Dale? Now Herschel? If the walkers ever do come, I don't think I'll be signing up for that "wise sage" role.

R.I.P to Herschel. They were right on talking dead. We welcome these characters into our home every week, bond with them and watch them grow and struggle, lose and love. It's tough to watch them go. Guess it's just another zombie show.

Unfortunately I was not up for watching this tonight. Tomorrow I'll catch up.

Last week was interesting, watching the Governor pick people off one by one.

Ah yes the Governor and his militia. Now, those last two episodes kinda tie in nicely. We were patient enough with that whole "Governor" episode story, and I think it was necessary to see. I mean, without having met that camp and understood their views and struggles and motives, I'm not sure that finale would have had the same impact. Having not met that silly ass family and Megan, and Mitch and that ensuing power struggle.... All of that leads to the Governor stepping back into that role and returning with a vengeance at the group's most vulnerable of times.

That speech he gave at the beginning... now that is a villain. Im actually reminded of many other villains we know. The governor's niche? It's a frighteningly powerful one. He's a leader, one that knows how to pull the strings, how to speak to the mass and make them believe in ANY cause, and think it is the right thing. Hitler did this and did it well. Took a broken nation and built them up, spiritually and physically as a nation. And they put forth their unwavering trust in him.

The governor weaved this spell. He even convinced himself that this scheme was for a greater good. Megan and his new family... he gave himself a new reason to live. Or an excuse. The problem with the Governor's mask is that under pressure (like both attacks on the prison) his mask slips away too easily. The madman beneath always overrides any humanity he attempts to retain.

Phew. So yeah. That's the Governor. Now he has a sword wound and a bullet in his head. I do love that him and Rick finally got to dance, and I love that Michonne was there in the end to make good on her promises. And I can't remember Megan's mom's name, but I love that she put him down. That shit where Governor answered Herschel's question about killing daughters by saying, "because they are someone else's"? Yep. Pure madman. Irreparable evil. And blasting Megan's head in front of her grieving mother? Instantly? They were just an excuse for him. Yeah he may have really developed feelings for them, but even they are beyond his inhuman understanding of the world.

I am almost sure that the older blonde girl was the one killing the rats and luring the walkers.

And what the fuck was she doing when she was supposed to be watching judith.

I'm sincerely hoping that little J is okay and the blood was there for another reason.

I doubt it, and I believe that they only showed it in that ambiguous way because they can't show baby-murder on TV.

Oh well.

SPOILER ALERT SPOILER ALERT SPOILER ALERT

I just wanted to say that in case someone hasn't watched the mid-season finale before reading this.

I loved the episode: it was a perfect way to move our characters onto their next locale. The prison was pretty much played out, I think.

But I have two problems with tonight's episode, and they are the same problem I have with every cop or army show filmed these days:

One, how can the Governor, standing atop a tank, get 3 hits with his semi automatic pistol against two Walkers at least ... what, 50, 100, 150 feet away; and yet a thousand rounds were shot by two dozen sometimes automatic weapons, and no one was getting hit? Really.

How stupid are these writers? Or, how stupid do they think we are? In one scene, two people with automatic rifles and less than 60 feet between them are firing on full auto and neither of them can hit the other. Unbelievable.

And two, why was the guy in the tank blowing holes in the wall of the prison they wanted to live in, rather than blowing up the people at the fence line, 50-100 feet away from the wall and directly in front of him. Again, dumb writing. The Governor-- excuse me, Brian, was a smart man with a plan; and the guy in the tank was supposed to be skilled at his job. Wouldn't the writers have written in, "Oh, and don't destroy our home, pal."

It makes me think of all of those cop shows where the good guy is running away from a man shooting at him, and all of the bullets are striking the ground around the good guy's feet, kicking up dirt. If the man with the gun was actually aiming at the good guy and missing, the bullets would be hitting the ground in the distance, not right under his feet.

Okay, that's my rant. Other than that, I was totally satisfied.

Love TWD.

BTW, if anyone is interested, I have a TWD role play in the ORP section.

Can't wait for February!!

Cruel2BKind said:

I am almost sure that the older blonde girl was the one killing the rats and luring the walkers.

And what the fuck was she doing when she was supposed to be watching judith.

I'm sincerely hoping that little J is okay and the blood was there for another reason.

I doubt it, and I believe that they only showed it in that ambiguous way because they can't show baby-murder on TV.

Oh well.

Click to expand...

The rats still bug me quite a bit. I mean, we are sort of led to believe that it was the governor at the fences, or at least that's where my logic took me. But inside the ptlrison? And after Carol is gone? That question still remains, and of course, right as Rick and Daryl were ready to tell Tyrese about Carol, they get attacked. Perfect timing.

Not sure which blonde girl you're talking about. Maggie's sister? Or the girl Carol had taken to raise that capped that chick in the forehead? Not sure either way, but the latter I have suspected as well for the rats. She has a really weird thing going on.

I wasn't to quick to buy that Judith could be dead. I mean it may be so, but it just feels like a suspense builder to me. A car seat with a bloody handprint doesn't tell me enough solid evidence. I can certainly understand how Rick and Carl would think the worst and despair. But me? I need February to come to a more solid conclusion than "baby death."

I agree, the shoot out scenes were ridiculous. But TV is always like that so I tend not to over think it. It's like when you see a guy with a six-shooter firing about fifty bullets without reloading. meh!

I thought the episode showed a great juxtaposition between Rick and the Governor. Both went psycho over the Woodbury/Prison War. Both went their own way trying to recapture their humanity after it was over.

What we seen was that Rick succeeded in finding his humanity. But the Governor, once he was in a position of power, just slipped back into his same old psycho self. A great lesson in story writing, the hero learns a lesson (Rick), while the main opponent (Governor) fails to learn one.

I'm bummed Hershel was killed. He was such a quality character. I think Elizabeth is on the bus to be honest, so it just comes down to whether Rick and Carl find the bus. They probably have a prearranged rendezvous point if things go bad.

Entertaining episode, can't wait until feb until it starts again.

KockRoach said:

SPOILER ALERT SPOILER ALERT SPOILER ALERT

I just wanted to say that in case someone hasn't watched the mid-season finale before reading this.

I loved the episode: it was a perfect way to move our characters onto their next locale. The prison was pretty much played out, I think.

But I have two problems with tonight's episode, and they are the same problem I have with every cop or army show filmed these days:

One, how can the Governor, standing atop a tank, get 3 hits with his semi automatic pistol against two Walkers at least ... what, 50, 100, 150 feet away; and yet a thousand rounds were shot by two dozen sometimes automatic weapons, and no one was getting hit? Really.

How stupid are these writers? Or, how stupid do they think we are? In one scene, two people with automatic rifles and less than 60 feet between them are firing on full auto and neither of them can hit the other. Unbelievable.

And two, why was the guy in the tank blowing holes in the wall of the prison they wanted to live in, rather than blowing up the people at the fence line, 50-100 feet away from the wall and directly in front of him. Again, dumb writing. The Governor-- excuse me, Brian, was a smart man with a plan; and the guy in the tank was supposed to be skilled at his job. Wouldn't the writers have written in, "Oh, and don't destroy our home, pal."

It makes me think of all of those cop shows where the good guy is running away from a man shooting at him, and all of the bullets are striking the ground around the good guy's feet, kicking up dirt. If the man with the gun was actually aiming at the good guy and missing, the bullets would be hitting the ground in the distance, not right under his feet.

Okay, that's my rant. Other than that, I was totally satisfied.

Love TWD.

BTW, if anyone is interested, I have a TWD role play in the ORP section.

Can't wait for February!!

Click to expand...

I see your point all around. Right when the governor capped those Walker's heads one handed, it bugged me that he was that incredibly accurate. Stuff like that always gets to me. And when Tyrese was being shot at with ARs from like 30feet away, your point was my thought as well. I mean, that's when you could do what's called "spray and pray" and even if you'd never held a weapon, you'd be hitting someone. And it did bug me that Mitch was just blowing holes in the place they wanted to inhabit.

I guess some things I can overlook, and others I can kinda justify for myself in a way. For the Governor and his precision marksmanship, there's no excuse. I mean, I know he's seasoned with a weapon but c'mon. At least put two hands up and have him try to get the most out of those ballistics. As for people shooting and missing, tyrese should a been dead, and those bullets should a been hitting behind him. But as for all else, that "battlefield" type scenario plays out a bit more complex than a firing range. What's running through each individuals mind during that would be panic, dread, fright, uncontrollable adrenaline, constant threat of danger from all sides, etc. Trigger fingers and cool rational impulses disappear, and a champion marksman will miss a rabbit at twenty feet... especially if that rabbit is shooting back. Only seasoned battle veterans could have operated somewhat normally and even then not so well. Of course some of those people in the Governor's group were army, but not all, and military experience isn't a blanket "they should do this perfectly" deal. Military people are flawed and human too.

That kinda ties in to my thoughts on the tank operator, Mitch. I don't think anyone really thought this attack through at all. They were roused by the Governor and his speech and the promise of a new safe home. Everyone's thinking was "we have a friggin tank, they'll surrender without a fight." No real thought of consequences or plan of proper execution was ever really set in place. You would think that it would be common sense not to blast holes in their new home or now down those fences. But just place yourself in that moment for a second.

You're that guy, Mitch. Or his A gunner. That first round is shock and awe, aimed at the tower. Gets the prison's attention, while letting them know "we gotta tank". Now going into this, without a real strategy laid out (the governor thrust this on them with the kidnapping and string pull of his speech) the plan is show up and make them stand down. All the sudden, you go from being in charge to shots are fired and you have got to act. The Governor initiates combat and orders you forward.

Tear down the fences? Why not just shoot up at the people at the prison? Well how much is that fence going to affect the trajectory of that shell? You may not even have a decent angle on those people. Did you see a kid up there or young woman that gave you pause? Your group is being fired upon, they are sitting ducks hiding behind you and they cannot mount any offensive on the prison from outside those fences. And maybe they need to... after all, say you fire a round toward Ricks people and they retreat back into the prison... that tank is useless without those ground troops if you wanna avoid collateral damage. Maybe that's the idea, a prison with a hole here and there, fired to flush Ricks group out and keep them out, is better than pushing them back inside and having to demolish crucial parts of that prison.

And I spoke of military being human. While Mitch was no doubt a very capable tank operator, he wasn't exactly very sanely logical from what I gathered. He seemed more like a dog of war who attacked without considering the consequences of what he destroyed. And without a leader to specify any sort of procedure of attack, that tank fired wherever he wanted to deflect that tube.

I do agree it probably wasn't too well thought of in terms of the script, but that battle for me made sense to be as reckless and muddy as it was. It reflected the Governor in a way. Well composed with good intentions, but scatterbrained and lacking direction under pressure. A sickly weakened group of survivors in a prison barely defending their home against a band of militants and way wards thrown together in a poorly planned and senseless skirmish.

Okay, I have finally seen and gotten caught up. Had to open a separate tab so I could keep everyone else's points in mind, and I will almost surely still forget things. I think I may try to go chronologically through the episode, but that will likely fall apart like a brick wall hit by a mortar.

Anyway, the opening was interesting, with the The Governor trying to whip his little posse into motion. We of course know he lied about what happened in Woodbury -- yes, Michonne "killed" his daughter, but the daughter was already dead. I don't actually see the Guv as being all that charismatic, but I don't think that mattered. He was just leading, doing something, and the other people around him were the ones who could be led. With Pete and the other guy -- Rodriguez? I never could remember his name -- gone, there was no other leadership candidate around. Alisha might have been the only other possibility, but she didn't step up.

There was no way this was going to end well, I don't think. Even if Rick had said okay, fine, we'll leave, I think the Guv would have double-crossed them. Either shot anyway, while they were preparing to go, or somehow chased them down.

Hershel! Sad to see him go. Many have said, and it was brought up on TD as well, that once again the moral center is gone. Maybe they should go awhile without one. And I don't think it's completely gone, as I think Maggie has some of that, and perhaps Beth, and Sasha, if she sticks around. I liked how Maggie tossed "We all have jobs to do," at Beth, who had used that as almost a mantra for a couple of episodes, to keep herself together. Now that they had to do those jobs, Beth was wobbly -- but holding pretty steady.

The attack was dumb, as others have said. Mitch is going around blasting big holes in what is supposed to be their home, not to mention knocking down the fences. The Guv had to know that, and so I don't think he was all that interested in his group surviving, especially after he shot Meghan. Not sure he was looking to die, exactly, but I don't think he cared.

I thought we might lose Maggie or Glen this episode, after their romantic moment in the beginning. Just seemed like a good set up for one of them to get killed.

Anyone wonder if Lizzie, the older girl, is the one who did the rabbit skin and the rats? She certainly seemed to be channeling Carol this episode, and wow, what a shot to Alisha's head.

I am not sure that Judith is dead. I know we lost track of her, but she could be on the bus. My far-fetched theory was that Carol made her way back, saw what was going on and got Judith out (I did say it was far-fetched ). Speaking of Carol, my husband hazarded a theory that perhaps she did not actually kill Karen and David, but is covering for who did, not that he could think of who that might be.

This actually brings us to the conversation between Rick and Daryl (told you I'd fall out of order). It was almost anti-climactic, but I didn't mind. On TD, Laurie Cohan (Maggie) said she thought that Daryl was more upset about being left out of the decision-making process than at the decision itself, which was an interesting thought. My husband noted that Daryl said that Carol's lack of remorse didn't sound like her, and that was what got Mr Penn thinking perhaps she was not the guilty party.

It was good to see that Daryl didn't hold it against Rick, at least for now, and that even Tyreese, mad as he was, saw that they had more important problems to deal with, telling Rick and Daryl that whatever they had to say could wait.

I'll be curious to see which of our group meets up and when and how when next season starts. I do think they need to change this kind of thing up a bit, though -- this is how season 2 ended, right? Anyway, it was very similar to the attack on Hershel's farm except that this was people instead of zombies.

And... whew, I think I'm done for now. I'm sure I forgot stuff.

Good for Daryl for packing grenades.

I meant to post this earlier. Here is the The AV Club's review/recap of the episode;

http://www.avclub.com/review/too-far-gone-105722

I thought some interesting points were made in the second paragraph, both about the show and the zombie genre in general.

One of the core tenets of the zombie story, going all the way back to when George Romero basically created the genre in Night Of The Living Dead, is that in times of great stress and danger, people rarely make the right choices.

Click to expand...

I think this is true, and why when I read -- or even think myself -- that "Oh, come on, they should have ..." I also realize that people do not always make good decisions, and especially so under stress. Why they do that, and what they do, is different and probably it's what makes a story interesting.

I remember reading a criticism of the "Battlestar Galactica" reboot, by Gregg Easterbrook, I think. Not an in-depth one, just part of his TMQ column, and he would take other SF works to ask as well. Anyway, he made points like this, that the commander should have done something differently because of whatever. Well, when you are being targeted for annihilation by human-looking robots, then you may not be thinking clearly.

What Romero did is demonstrate how a threat is at its most deadly when it gives the victims time to debat,; to talk amongst themselves, to doubt, to second guess, to grow bitter over proposed strategies, to resent the leader, to tear each other down, so that when trouble does arrive, no one is in any position to deal with it. It’s not that Romero considered team-work impossible. Just that it’s a lot more difficult than the Boy Scouts would have us believe, and that death doesn’t automatically bring out what’s best in us.

Click to expand...

I wonder if this is what bugs people about Walking Dead. There is no clear-cut leader anymore. Rick is the closest to it, but he doesn't feel up to it or want it. Shane and Rick are actually a good example of the arguing that ensues (okay, yeah, Shane was going off the deep end, I know). People do not always band together in the face of a common enemy. Although I liked that they did in Pacific Rim. They try in TWD, and sometimes it works, but there's almost always a loose end, someone who isn't in on the plan, or suddenly cuts out. That messes things up.

That’s why it’s important that zombies move slowly. The longer it takes them to get here, the more of a chance we’ll have to fuck everything up on our own.

Click to expand...

I never thought about it like this, but I think it's a good point. Even with time to plan in the face of a slow, mindless enemy, people mess up. They argue among themselves, like in Night of the Living Dead. They don't let prejudices or biases die. I've always said, and tried to explain to my dad , that zombies aren't the most interesting monsters. They're slow (aside from 28 Days Later), and they don't think or learn. They just keep coming. So what makes a zombie story interesting is what the non-zombies do.