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Old 06-22-2018, 09:22 PM   #1
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The Slavery Part Wasn't The Most Interesting Information.

For 20 years now, a well-meaning law professor has been peddling the fiction that the Second Amendment – guaranteeing the right of Americans to keep and bear arms – was adopted to protect slavery. He first proposed this in a 1998 law review article and trotted it out again in a recent New York Times op-ed.

The trouble is: It’s untrue. Not a single one of America’s founders is known to have suggested such a purpose...


http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/...h-slavery.html
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There are many systems of philosophy and political life which try to base law and all human relationships upon the nature of man. Man is made the measure of all things. All such systems, whether communism or humanism, or socialism, are doomed to fail because of one fatal flaw: they do not recognize the sinful, self-centered nature of man.They ignore God and deify man.

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Old 06-22-2018, 09:42 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FGB View Post
For 20 years now, a well-meaning law professor has been peddling the fiction that the Second Amendment – guaranteeing the right of Americans to keep and bear arms – was adopted to protect slavery. He first proposed this in a 1998 law review article and trotted it out again in a recent New York Times op-ed.

The trouble is: It’s untrue. Not a single one of America’s founders is known to have suggested such a purpose...


http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/...h-slavery.html
How many conversations are happening about correlating the 2nd to slavery?
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Old 06-22-2018, 09:51 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bestone4ever View Post
How many conversations are happening about correlating the 2nd to slavery?
First I heard of it...
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I stand for our flag and I kneel at the Cross. Gotta keep the shit straight!

"Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots? Neither can you do good who are accustomed to doing evil." Jeremiah 13:23

"The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?" Jeremiah 17:9

There are many systems of philosophy and political life which try to base law and all human relationships upon the nature of man. Man is made the measure of all things. All such systems, whether communism or humanism, or socialism, are doomed to fail because of one fatal flaw: they do not recognize the sinful, self-centered nature of man.They ignore God and deify man.

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Old 06-22-2018, 09:54 PM   #4
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But much like today, IF the right things were done correctly to start with, life would be much simpler and of a certainty have less bitching going on.

I think ...I could be wrong people being people.

The USA would be different for sure.
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I stand for our flag and I kneel at the Cross. Gotta keep the shit straight!

"Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots? Neither can you do good who are accustomed to doing evil." Jeremiah 13:23

"The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?" Jeremiah 17:9

There are many systems of philosophy and political life which try to base law and all human relationships upon the nature of man. Man is made the measure of all things. All such systems, whether communism or humanism, or socialism, are doomed to fail because of one fatal flaw: they do not recognize the sinful, self-centered nature of man.They ignore God and deify man.

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Old 06-22-2018, 11:50 PM   #5
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IF the right things were done correctly to start with, life would be much simpler and of a certainty have less bitching going on.
Who decides what's correct? Who appoints the deciders? Who enforces their decisions? How many bothersome people must be eliminated to set things right? Are you sure you won't be sent through the wrong door?
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Old 06-23-2018, 12:27 AM   #6
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I can guarantee that random citizens not in an organized militia having AR-15s capable of destroying many lives quickly and going in schools and churches and movie houses and concert halls and slaughtering people wasn't anywhere close to what those forging the 2nd Amendment had in mind either.
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Old 06-23-2018, 07:02 AM   #7
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That's something I haven't heard of myself.

I was under the impression that the right to bear came out of the British rule, when the UK Government was seen as being unacceptable for taxing paper and some other stuff but not allowing US inhabitants to elect Members of Parliament. So that was presented as a tax on education and news. Tea may have been a trigger point but wasn't a major factor.

Because the French were already at war with Britain, the US peoples accepted assistance from the French, although their government was considerably worse and led to the French Revolution a few years later. The UK never had such a revolution. But the French influence led to driving on the right, plus the possibility of having to defend against a really shitty government like one similar to the French model.
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Old 06-23-2018, 07:55 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by KeithD View Post
I can guarantee that random citizens not in an organized militia having AR-15s capable of destroying many lives quickly and going in schools and churches and movie houses and concert halls and slaughtering people wasn't anywhere close to what those forging the 2nd Amendment had in mind either.
Are those happenings YOUR fault?
It's not mine.
Neither is car bombings. Running down people with cars or the thousands killed by drugs or abortion each year. all over the world or a thousand other ways.

I have guns just a capable of killing as the AR's.

Damned if those lazy bastards have done nothing but kill a few deer and turtles!

So why is this?

Simple.

I am not a murderer or a crazy, hate filled fanatical lunatic.


Now that I have had my Hot Chocolate!
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I stand for our flag and I kneel at the Cross. Gotta keep the shit straight!

"Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots? Neither can you do good who are accustomed to doing evil." Jeremiah 13:23

"The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?" Jeremiah 17:9

There are many systems of philosophy and political life which try to base law and all human relationships upon the nature of man. Man is made the measure of all things. All such systems, whether communism or humanism, or socialism, are doomed to fail because of one fatal flaw: they do not recognize the sinful, self-centered nature of man.They ignore God and deify man.

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Dude's postings are more like a fucking trapezoid intersecting an isosceles triangle through a wormhole to Planet WTF.
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Old 06-23-2018, 08:00 AM   #9
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Who decides what's correct? Who appoints the deciders? Who enforces their decisions? How many bothersome people must be eliminated to set things right? Are you sure you won't be sent through the wrong door?
You decide. By voting the people YOU think will vote the way YOU think this country should be run.

Not because you feel like it's right each and every day... or some dip shit says something you don't like.
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Relax I am fgarvb1. Here Since December 2000

I stand for our flag and I kneel at the Cross. Gotta keep the shit straight!

"Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots? Neither can you do good who are accustomed to doing evil." Jeremiah 13:23

"The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?" Jeremiah 17:9

There are many systems of philosophy and political life which try to base law and all human relationships upon the nature of man. Man is made the measure of all things. All such systems, whether communism or humanism, or socialism, are doomed to fail because of one fatal flaw: they do not recognize the sinful, self-centered nature of man.They ignore God and deify man.

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Old 06-23-2018, 08:11 AM   #10
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An interesting view on the subject. One which leads to more than a few observations/questions.

By extension it can be read as the second amendment being an antidote to slavery. And taking that a step further one can easily see how enslavement can be much greater than just the situation of individuals 'owning' other individuals but can extend to entire population being enslaved by a political elite. (Feudalism comes to mind here.)

I don't agree with the author of that article's premise, but if his argument is to be taken at face value the existence of the 2nd amendment can be seen as a positive inclusion.
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Old 06-23-2018, 08:16 AM   #11
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Is the growth of our government then an inverse measure of how many wish to ban gun-ownership?




Is its bankruptcy our own moral bankruptcy in reflection?
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Old 06-23-2018, 08:22 AM   #12
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Is the growth of our government then an inverse measure of how many wish to ban gun-ownership?




Is its bankruptcy our own moral bankruptcy in reflection?
Throughout history one of the hallmarks of any totalitarian government has been the disarming of the citizens.
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Old 06-23-2018, 08:30 AM   #13
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Oh come on, I'm sure that Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Pol Pot, pick a Kim or the Mullahs didn't fear their citizens having guns.

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Old 06-23-2018, 08:38 AM   #14
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LOL, a Fox News opinion piece presented as conclusive evidence.

Are you in the Lit training program?
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Old 06-23-2018, 08:40 AM   #15
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I can guarantee that random citizens not in an organized militia having AR-15s capable of destroying many lives quickly and going in schools and churches and movie houses and concert halls and slaughtering people wasn't anywhere close to what those forging the 2nd Amendment had in mind either.
Guns scare you, thank you snowflake.

Go to your safe space.

We'll try to keep inanimate objects from harming you.

Thank you for the guarantee.

All the places you mentioned are gun free zones, right?

Why does a civilian ar-15 frighten you when have flown some of the most badass planes on planet earth?

Pondering.
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Old 06-23-2018, 08:42 AM   #16
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LOL, a Fox News opinion piece presented as conclusive evidence.

Are you in the Lit training program?
Of course it never occurred to you that some of us may have read the root article linked in the FOX blurb...........did it?
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Old 06-23-2018, 09:21 AM   #17
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That's something I haven't heard of myself.

I was under the impression that the right to bear came out of the British rule, when the UK Government was seen as being unacceptable for taxing paper and some other stuff but not allowing US inhabitants to elect Members of Parliament. So that was presented as a tax on education and news. Tea may have been a trigger point but wasn't a major factor.

Because the French were already at war with Britain, the US peoples accepted assistance from the French, although their government was considerably worse and led to the French Revolution a few years later. The UK never had such a revolution. But the French influence led to driving on the right, plus the possibility of having to defend against a really shitty government like one similar to the French model.

England, not the UK which didn't exist, had a Civil War which led to a King being executed. It was followed by the so-called "Glorious Revolution" of 1688 which established a constitutional Monarchy with no executive powers.

IF the UK had been prepared to allow the 13 Colonies the freedoms (and representation) that existed in the UK at the time, and had made that offer before the Declaration of Independence - the US would not have been formed then. The UK government reluctantly did offer that but too late. Whether it was an offer in good faith is dubious. The King's Party (not the King who had no power) were against any concessions to the 13 Colonies.

Even if the 13 Colonies had accepted the offer of equal representation in the UK government at Westminster it would only have delayed US independence by a few decades at most.

There was an anomaly. The King had no constitutional power in the UK (or the 13 Colonies). But as Elector of Hanover he did have power, and an army which was sent to America as The King's German Legion.
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Old 06-23-2018, 10:39 AM   #18
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Of course it never occurred to you that some of us may have read the root article linked in the FOX blurb...........did it?
LOL, root article...The law review and op-ed that Fox opinion seeks to debunk? What’s your point?
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Old 06-23-2018, 10:53 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by FGB View Post
For 20 years now, a well-meaning law professor has been peddling the fiction that the Second Amendment – guaranteeing the right of Americans to keep and bear arms – was adopted to protect slavery. He first proposed this in a 1998 law review article and trotted it out again in a recent New York Times op-ed.

The trouble is: It’s untrue. Not a single one of America’s founders is known to have suggested such a purpose...


http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/...h-slavery.html
A little revisionist history to create a false narrative in order to undermine the virtue of the individual right to bear arms. You see, since we ended slavery there's no need for the Amendment that protected it. This is about another manufactured narrative designed to indoctrinate and influence lesser intellects so they can assist the effort by hitting the streets and immediately amplifying that false narrative in order to create fake news and a political movement. This is an Alinsky type effort.
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Old 06-23-2018, 10:56 AM   #20
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I can guarantee that random citizens not in an organized militia having AR-15s capable of destroying many lives quickly and going in schools and churches and movie houses and concert halls and slaughtering people wasn't anywhere close to what those forging the 2nd Amendment had in mind either.
They had no problem with citizens having "military grade" hardware (which an AR 15 ain't). That's made clear by decisions by the supreme court, statements by the founding fathers, etc. US citizens could have cannons at the time of the constitution being signed.

They probably didn't see the rise in social media and over-focus on mass shooters by the media, which leads to more copycat mass shooters.
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Old 06-23-2018, 11:05 AM   #21
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I can guarantee that random citizens not in an organized militia having AR-15s capable of destroying many lives quickly and going in schools and churches and movie houses and concert halls and slaughtering people wasn't anywhere close to what those forging the 2nd Amendment had in mind either.
The founders left in the hands of the citizenry weapons capable of destroying the most powerful military on Earth at the time, dummy.
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Old 06-23-2018, 11:38 AM   #22
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The founders left in the hands of the citizenry weapons capable of destroying the most powerful military on Earth at the time, dummy.
Oh, so it's not relevant in modern times?
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Old 06-23-2018, 12:34 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FGB View Post
Are those happenings YOUR fault?
It's not mine.
Neither is car bombings. Running down people with cars or the thousands killed by drugs or abortion each year. all over the world or a thousand other ways.

I have guns just a capable of killing as the AR's.

Damned if those lazy bastards have done nothing but kill a few deer and turtles!

So why is this?

Simple.

I am not a murderer or a crazy, hate filled fanatical lunatic.


Now that I have had my Hot Chocolate!
I can completely understand why you'd choose posting gibberish over responding on what the casters of the 2nd Amendment would think of the interpretation now being put to it and the effect it's having.
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Old 06-23-2018, 05:13 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by oggbashan View Post
There was an anomaly. The King had no constitutional power in the UK (or the 13 Colonies). But as Elector of Hanover he did have power, and an army which was sent to America as The King's German Legion.
So the Hessians weren't mercenaries but assigned troops. THAT is a fascinating tidbit I've not seen before. Thanks!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rightguide
The founders left in the hands of the citizenry weapons capable of destroying the most powerful military on Earth at the time, dummy.
Oh, so it's not relevant in modern times?
The colonial rebels depended heavily on French arms, ammo, and naval forces, who did most damage to the Brits, who were occupied elsewhere anyway in a global war George Washington inadvertently started.. Citizenry weapons did not include heavy land and naval artillery, privateer fleets, general staffs, and continued foreign assistance.

Aim a musket into a five-pound cannon; both fire at the same time; see what happens. If they missed, aim a AR-15 (with laser sight) at a combat chopper. See what happens. SPOILER: Not much will remain of the patriot.
_____

PS: The 2nd has already been overturned. The first two clauses are ignored; the last clause is overridden by restrictions. So goes the fantasy.
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Old 06-23-2018, 05:24 PM   #25
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I can completely understand why you'd choose posting gibberish over responding on what the casters of the 2nd Amendment would think of the interpretation now being put to it and the effect it's having.
Um.

They are Dead.

And they were Pro armed citizens while alive so...
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I stand for our flag and I kneel at the Cross. Gotta keep the shit straight!

"Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots? Neither can you do good who are accustomed to doing evil." Jeremiah 13:23

"The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?" Jeremiah 17:9

There are many systems of philosophy and political life which try to base law and all human relationships upon the nature of man. Man is made the measure of all things. All such systems, whether communism or humanism, or socialism, are doomed to fail because of one fatal flaw: they do not recognize the sinful, self-centered nature of man.They ignore God and deify man.

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