Objectification/Humiliation

**Original post (and others when possible) replaced thanks to those who quoted it[them]... **


(Dear God Cutie's actually discussing kink from a more than theoretical perspective... )

I bumped a thread earlier in the week about humiliation, but it didn't really fully "fit" the conversation I was hoping it would inspire, so I'm trying a new thread. I don't even know for sure what discussion I'm hoping occurs, but I'm in one of those thinking-research-heavy moods lately... it almost kind of sort of makes up for the current lack of bondagy sorts of things in my life... almost.[babblebabblebabble]

So- humiliation & objectification thoughts, anyone? Hot? Not? Trigger issue? Are there some forms you can snuggle down into an hit that mental (and physical) yummy spot, and some that make you want to throw lightning bolts? Does degradation fit into things anywhere for you?

I honestly don't think I could be in a relationship without it... DRD called it my "blush on command" kink, because it's like I can [blush on command]. I get flustered (embarrassed/lightly humiliated) that easily. I don't know why it clicks, or why I see being humiliated as a manifestation of love, or why it's a zero-to-sixty trigger for me [in a good way].

The only odd thing about it for me, is that certain words work, and certian words, don't. Tell me to "Be a good girl and _______" and it clicks. Tell me to do the same thing with whore/b*tch/slut/c*nt in the mix? I snap right out of submissive headspace, go ice cold, and you better hope you have a good explination for your behaviour. LOL

This is an area that we are carefully exploring. The problem for me is that sometimes I absolutely love it, crave it really. It is better than any spanking, or physical torment...but,

sometimes it can go over a line and just cause total mental breakdown and I can't do anything. It's horrible.

The biggest problem is that it's a mindset situation. It all depends on the mindset I have going into the situation. But it is totally unpredictable. The same kind of humiliation that soaked my pussy one time, causes meltdown another.

Unfortunately since my present relationship is a LDR where we only get together every couple of months we haven't explored this enough (enough for me, that is) I would be a little afraid to in a way. I don't want to ruin a entire visit because of a meltdown.

It might also be one of those things for me where the fantasy is 100 times hotter than the reality. I don't know...eventually we will find out.

I'm sort of like you CM, in the aspect that certain words can turn me on and others leave me cold. For example I adore being called his slut, whore, bitch. On the other hand if he called me a fat, or stupid slut/whore/bitch I would be very upset. Certain activities are the same way. If he ordered me to go out without underwear, or a bra I wouldn't have a second thought about obeying. Now if he ordered me to go to a nude beach.. I would probably safeword.

Ok.. after going back and reading what I just wrote. I guess I have to say that humiliation is a hard limit for me. I would only allow what didn't really bother me that much, and that would defeat the purpose. *sighs* Sorry to waste your time cutie..

I don't think it's a waste of time...

My thought from reading your post, was to wonder why there is a perception that humiliation can't be subjected to limits like anything else in BDSM? I really enjoy humiliation... but even teasingly call me a b*tch and you'd never know I was submissive. Which, BTW, DRD did in the middle of a very entertaining and enjoyable "scene"... I stopped everything cold, had him untie me, sat down as equals and told him if he ever used that word again, I'd be on the next plane faster than he could say "sorry."

I view humiliation as pretty freaking edgy stuff. Mind games can go wrong so much more quickly than a numb wrist from a rope being too tight; the risk of emotional harm is often simmering just under the surface. It makes perfect sense to me that it not be done lightly, or without taking precautions...

CutieMouse said:

I don't think it's a waste of time...

My thought from reading your post, was to wonder why there is a perception that humiliation can't be subjected to limits like anything else in BDSM? I really enjoy humiliation... but even teasingly call me a b*tch and you'd never know I was submissive. Which, BTW, Jeffrey did in the middle of a very entertaining and enjoyable "scene"... I stopped everything cold, had him untie me, sat down as equals and told him if he ever used that word again, I'd be on the next plane faster than he could say "sorry."

I view humiliation as pretty freaking edgy stuff. Mind games can go wrong so much more quickly than a numb wrist from a rope being too tight; the risk of emotional harm is often simmering just under the surface. It makes perfect sense to me that it not be done lightly, or without taking precautions...

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I'm glad I could help a little. I guess that if I could sit down with the potential Dom and go over every aspect of what may occur it wouldn't be a hard limit. As long as I could voice to him what would be a bad trigger for me and was assured that he wouldn't go there with me. I don't have much experience with humiliation as my previous Dom wasn't into it, so I guess I didn't realize it was possible to put limits on it like that.

i have thoughts on this topic but im not entirely coherent at the moment, so i will come back with a response at a later point in time

I have found it difficult in a totally different way, that being familiarity makes it damn difficult to humiliate me in private with just the two of us. Explanation required? Well things which might degrade or humiliate me if they came from someone else, do not cause a flicker when they come from F simply because (or this is why, I think) he owns me, he knows me inside out as I do him, and very little he could say or do touches that spot easily as I am prepared to accept just about anything from him if it makes him happy. I think for it to work in most situations, he has to involve someone else, even if only in being present. LOL, he has done things with me, even in public which once would have made me wish the earth could swallow me there and then, and yet with him it didn't even make me miss a step. Go figure.

Catalina

I'm at a place in life where I think just about everything is negotiable. There have to be ways for just about everyone to get their kinks met, even if it takes a bit of creativity. I like humiliation, and would hate to rob myself (or my Lover) of that pleasure, just because a handful of words, or one or two specific scenerios piss me off, ya know? Is there a risk bad stuff I don't even understand might get dredged up? Yeah... but I wouldn't do humiliation with someone I didn't trust to help me deal with it [should that happen].

I know right now there are words that just do not fit in my world. (slut/bitch/whore/etc) The stupid thing is that they don't piss me off/stop things cold because I see them as demeaning; they piss me off/stop things cold because they aren't true. When I'm in a relationship, I don't believe it is my place to refuse sex, because I happen to really like sex... men aren't called sluts for that kind of attitude, so in my head I shouldn't be either. That's where I am *now*... for all I know I could meet a man who loves those words, and we agree to slowly work on my reaction to them, to see if we can work them into humiliation scenes for his pleasure. Make sense?

CutieMouse said:

I'm at a place in life where I think just about everything is negotiable. There have to be ways for just about everyone to get their kinks met, even if it takes a bit of creativity. I like humiliation, and would hate to rob myself (or my Lover) of that pleasure, just because a handful of words, or one or two specific scenerios piss me off, ya know? Is there a risk bad stuff I don't even understand might get dredged up? Yeah... but I wouldn't do humiliation with someone I didn't trust to help me deal with it [should that happen].

I know right now there are words that just do not fit in my world. (slut/bitch/whore/etc) The stupid thing is that they don't piss me off/stop things cold because I see them as demeaning; they piss me off/stop things cold because they aren't true. When I'm in a relationship, I don't believe it is my place to refuse sex, because I happen to really like sex... men aren't called sluts for that kind of attitude, so in my head I shouldn't be either. That's where I am *now*... for all I know I could meet a man who loves those words, and we agree to slowly work on my reaction to them, to see if we can work them into humiliation scenes for his pleasure. Make sense?

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Yes, makes perfect sense. I see why it pisses you off because it's not true. For example I don't really like being called "slut" because I'm not. I don't bang every man I come in contact with. But... call me " My slut" and I'm in a puddle on the floor. It's kind of a complicated issue for me. As you said though finding the right person and working it all out could make all the difference.

* I guess saying banging every guy in site wasn't how I was trying to phrase that. It sounded very harsh.. and multiple sex partners does not mean someone is a slut. The word slut means a lot of different negative things to different people. I just meant that I don't see that my high sex drive makes me a slut*

I've only had one D/s relationship (thus far) but I had no problem when he referred to me as his bitch, slut, or whore. Perhaps that’s because he used the word “my” before each term; which, I suppose, negated any negative connotations. We had a relationship with a good foundation, before he introduced me to BDSM, so I trusted him in that he held me in high regard, on many different levels. When he did use those terms (while I did feel more vulnerable) I did not associate them with degradation or humiliation.

Objectification is depersonalizing someone, correct? I did not feel less of a person when he used those terms.

Humiliation is a tough call for me, though. If he would have said something such as, “You’re nothing but a bitch (slut, whore)” I don’t think I could have handled that very well, even knowing that he loved and respected me. It’s all in how he used those terms. We did have scenes in which I felt extremely vulnerable and humbled…not sure that is the same as humiliated, which I equate with shame. His actions and words never made me feel shame.

I've said before that humiliation is a hard limit for me.....however little things like going without panties don't worry me that much. I'd be hesitant but I'd do it

He teases me in private, and I will blush (although not as much as I used to, I used to blush at the drop of a hat!). It's done in fun and we laugh together about it.

But do anything that makes me feel bad about myself, and I go to what I call "the bad place". My ex husband was emotionally abusive and eroded my self esteem so badly that it's taken a lot of personal work to get me feeling good about myself.

It still doesn't take much to send me back to where I was during my marriage though. It's happened without Him even realising what had happened until my walls came up...... An off the cuff remark, an angry outburst (not directed at me I must clarify that) when His blood sugar was low and we didn't realise.....I flashed back so quickly I didn't have time to tell myself that I didn't need to feel this way anymore.

In fantasy, I'm waaaaay into objectification and humiliation. It's a huge read hot button.

In real life, however it's a lot trickier. I have baggage that no doubt, set up the button and also the traps around that it.

It doesn't take much to give me just the edge of humiliation or objectification. That edge is where I prefer to to be. I blush easily. I like being used or at least feeling like I am.

However, public humiliation is not going to work well with me. I will get hurt in such a situation. It's happened a lot in my past with other people.

Serious humiliation is also a no no for me. For instance, if he told me I was a slut and meant it, as per my definition of the word, I'd be seriously hurt and pissed. My buttons would all turn blue. Hell my vagina might actually dry out. *chuckles*

I also don't particularly like things being said that aren't true about me. I've worked at being good, damn it. It was a choice (the only one I could make) but still a hard one, so recognize.

When he says something like, "Do you like to have boys putting things up your ass." Well that's dirty talk so I do find it humiliating. Just not in a good way, because I've never let a "boy" touch me, let alone "boys." He is the only one that gets to touch me.

If he says something that is more about me and him, well, that works better for me. As long as he isn't saying I'm a big fat pig or something. LOL. God help him if he does that or comes to believe shit like that.

I'd much rather be alone than with someone who is constantly pushing you down, hating on you, or holding on to grievances in relation to you that you don't even know about it.

That's where I'll go really quick. You don't like me? You think I stink or whatever? Fine. Then get the hell away. I am not here to make you unhappy. I have a lot of better things to be doing.

Serious issues man.

*chuckles*

But I can laugh with him about my screw ups as long as he points them out with love, support and tolerance instead of critical judgment, sanctions and punishment.

See, this is also why I'm so against punishment versus consequences . . . but that's another thread.

I need to go to bed. I think. I'm probably just rambling here.

As always, very interesting subject, Cutie!

The biggest problem for me when it comes to this is my unpredictable moods. I love humiliation at certain time, in certain ways, to a certain extent... but my depression/bipolar-ness has a nasty habit of rearing it's head at the worst possible times, making me hesitant to actually explore this because I don't want to end up a crying ball of hystericalness from one tiny trigger.

That said, I DO like the fantasies I have of being humiliated, and I think that if it was talked about and the Dom in question knew and respected my limits, it might be very nice. I know I fantasize about it a lot, and I talked to my ex once about it but she wasn't comfortable doing it.

Triggers- If anyone EVER called me fat or made fun of my weight, I don't care who they are or how devoted I am to them, it would be a VERY bad situation.


Heather

CutieMouse said:

When I'm in a relationship, I don't believe it is my place to refuse sex, because I happen to really like sex... men aren't called sluts for that kind of attitude, so in my head I shouldn't be either.

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Now see, you just been mixing in the wrong circles girl...I call particular men sluts, usually the ones who enjoy it, but not always....and there are times I lovingly tell F he is a slut and he agrees most times.

Catalina

I'm also very picky about certain things that work and fit and certain things that don't and don't. I'm not of the whore/slut/bitch variety, and I'm pleased that I'm working with someone who doesn't find those monikers a turn on in relation to me, anyway. Make me admit the extent of my own vulnerability? Sure, that's humiliating and a turn on. Rub my dominant identity in my face because you can? I'd find that hot from him, and he does it in small doses.

Mostly I'm a pretty exhalted sexy thrilling Goddess, whether on the leash or holding it, though, in his opinion, and I guess I have to live with that.

I'm one of the few people I know who's totally neutral about her weight, even now that I'm fat again. "I'm pretty hot for a fat chick, huh?" I said over some recent nekkie photos I sent him and he said nothing, so I turned around for a hard look. He said "well that's a no-win statement, isn't it? Although yeah, you're confident enough that I can say you are *very* hot for a fat chick, I suppose. Please don't hit me!"

I really respond well to any kind of humiliation regarding my intellect, anything of the "your smarts aren't going to do you any good here" ilk.

I guess the whole sordid situation is laced with its own humiliating edge for me, so it doesn't take a lot of pushing.

I would love to make some sort of comment that would make it sound like I push "v"s buttons in some elegant, pre-planned way. I don't, generally. Humiliation and embarrassemtn are major turn-ons for her, in very specific ways, and they are fluid. As a result, if I get the impressio that she is craving that sort of stimulus, I will usually veer in that direction.

The manner in which I do so is dictated by the circumstances, of course, and is likewise fluid. It really comes from being with her for 16 years. I play her embarrassment like a violin becuase I know her well enough to do so without truly making her feel like trash. She wants to feel dirty, used, nasty. etc, so I make sure she feels that way to a sharply controlled extent.

There's more to this, but my brain is goo and I need sleep.

the humiliation thing turns me off.
more than that, it makes me angry.
in a "relationship over" way...possibly in a *crush your nuts on my way out* way too.

and the men who crave it? i'm not talking about those who dig it if it turns their sub on, i'm talking about those that crave it like nothing else...i can't begin to express the distaste i feel.

it's the one kink where i get really opinionated.

I so hear you here and especially there. I too am a blusher and your comment about blushing on command made me sit up and take notice. Yes after all these years I can blush and more or less on command. I believe that when anyone takes the time to discover what makes another blush and then goes about achieving just that is an indication of deep interest if not down fight love as Cutie puts it.

I also agree with the responses to the harsher forms of humiliation. I don't feel humiliated when referred to as any of the crass terms Cutie mentions and would add several more but for the sake of brevity, will not. In my profession I am called such things daily, some days several times a day. Dayem some days I go home thinking cunt is my middle name. So if a dom uses those terms with me my mind immediately goes to work and I not only get red hot angry but all play stops and stops right there.

Now objectification such as that in an inspection will send me from zero to sixty on the lust factor scale as will certain forms of indifference. Such a dom I used to see who enjoyed reading while I serviced his cock. Ah well soon I will have a chance to determine just what else sends me regarding that which Cutie mentions but for today I merely read about it.

CutieMouse said:

So- humiliation & objectification thoughts, anyone? Hot? Not? Trigger issue? Are there some forms you can snuggle down into an hit that mental (and physical) yummy spot, and some that make you want to throw lightning bolts? Does degradation fit into things anywhere for you?

I honestly don't think I could be in a relationship without it... Jeffrey called it my "blush on command" kink, because it's like I can [blush on command]. I get flustered (embarrassed/lightly humiliated) that easily. I don't know why it clicks, or why I see being humiliated as a manifestation of love, or why it's a zero-to-sixty trigger for me [in a good way].

The only odd thing about it for me, is that certain words work, and certian words, don't. Tell me to "Be a good girl and _______" and it clicks. Tell me to do the same thing with whore/b*tch/slut/c*nt in the mix? I snap right out of submissive headspace, go ice cold, and you better hope you have a good explination for your behaviour. LOL

Click to expand...

FurryFury said:

In fantasy, I'm waaaaay into objectification and humiliation. It's a huge read hot button.

In real life, however it's a lot trickier. I have baggage that no doubt, set up the button and also the traps around that it.

It doesn't take much to give me just the edge of humiliation or objectification. That edge is where I prefer to to be. I blush easily. I like being used or at least feeling like I am.

However, public humiliation is not going to work well with me. I will get hurt in such a situation. It's happened a lot in my past with other people.
Serious humiliation is also a no no for me. For instance, if he told me I was a slut and meant it, as per my definition of the word, I'd be seriously hurt and pissed. My buttons would all turn blue. Hell my vagina might actually dry out. *chuckles*

I also don't particularly like things being said that aren't true about me. I've worked at being good, damn it. It was a choice (the only one I could make) but still a hard one, so recognize.

When he says something like, "Do you like to have boys putting things up your ass." Well that's dirty talk so I do find it humiliating. Just not in a good way, because I've never let a "boy" touch me, let alone "boys." He is the only one that gets to touch me.

If he says something that is more about me and him, well, that works better for me. As long as he isn't saying I'm a big fat pig or something. LOL. God help him if he does that or comes to believe shit like that.

I'd much rather be alone than with someone who is constantly pushing you down, hating on your, or holding on to grievances in relation to you that you don't even know about it.

That's where I'll go really quick. You don't like me? You think I stink or whatever? Fine. Then get the hell away. I am not here to make you unhappy. I have a lot of better things to be doing.
Serious issues man.

*chuckles*

But I can laugh with him about my screw ups as long as he points them out with love, support and tolerance instead of critical judgment, sanctions and punishment.

See, this is also why I'm so against punishment versus consequences . . . but that's another thread.

I need to go to bed. I think. I'm probably just rambling here.

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The parts of FF post that are in bold are the parts that resonated most with me.

It depends on the public humiliation, wearing no underwear when out is fine, but putting me down in front of others equals the response CM gives when she is called a slut.

I have no issue with being a slut/fucktoy/bitch etc but it is about timing. But if used in the middle of a conversation when I am trying to explain something, I will be hurt. If they are lucky it stays as 'hurt,' if it goes further my emotions towards them start to switch off until there is nothing left. Once those feelings are gone they are not going to return.

I need to feel the person I am with respects me and accepts who I am, I do try to do the right thing. I do have a sense of humour too, but I think I have a reasonable balance of when it is right and when it is not.
In public if the person I am with tells someone I am 'good' I am mortified. I hate it, that is private. I hate open praise in the same amounts as I hate having my faults laid out in public.

Being with someone who makes me feel small or stupid is something I seem to struggle with. I hate the uncertainty of whether I should stay and try to make him understand how I feel, and the self-hatred of being so small minded as to walk away without trying to make it right. Sometimes they do not realise they are doing it, it is their own self-preservation mechanism kicking in.

I see it that the problem with humiliation is the written word can be erotic. If you read a word or line that does not resonate in that way, you can skim over it and move on. If someone says the wrong words or the right words but at the wrong time, you cannot pretend you never heard it; nor can you erase the tone they said it in.

For those who give verbal humiliation it must be like a walking time bomb at times, especially in a new relationship. In a long standing one you know each other and certain aspects become part of the underlying foundations of the relationship itself. A woven part of the overall dynamic and knowing of each other. Like the 'in-jokes' that every relationship has.

I don't view humiliation as punishment, I take punishment as a separate issue and see it as quite serious.
Like FF I have strong views on the difference between the consequences of actions and punishment.
I have experienced a great many consequences, but only been punished twice. Punishment was not fun, and it was deserved.

Humiliation works for me when it takes me to the edge of feeling uncomfortable and awkward, yet it doesn't go so far as to take me to a point where I feel bad about the person I am.

There are many things in r/l I am shy about. I enjoy shocking people sometimes, yet telling a Dom exactly what I want and how I want it is very humiliating.
There are some words I don't say (or type) willingly, make me do that and my toes will squirm for hours. None of which makes me feel as if I am a lesser person.

At least when you are being flogged or caned you can use a safe word when it goes to far, with humiliation that option is not so easy to use.

We haven't done much of what you might call humiliation or objectification but we have talked about it a lot lately. As is is, he can easily embarress me and takes great delight in it...simple things like watching me go to the bathroom or wispering something truly wicked in my ear when we are at the grocery store. Those have a huge impact on me and are big turn-ons even though at the same time I wanted to die.

Humiliation is an odd one for me. He makes me tell him what I want and dicuss various acts and tell him why I like/don't like them and how they make me feel. I hate doing it. I freeze up, turn red as a beet, stutter, etc. At the same time though, it turns me on. I find it terribly humiliating that I enjoyed X and I really liked it when he did Z and put A in B. But gosh, it turns me on. Name- calling is tough. He would never call me a bitch but if he did I would go ballistic. Other names are difficult for me as well, mainly because I still struggle with this whole good girl/shame thing and I need huge amount of reassurance that I have his love and respect. Calling me a whore would not be reassuring. LOL

Objectification..hot hot hot. Servicing him while he watches TV or reads..I adore it. Being his footstool..yes please. Being the naked women standing in the corner while he goes about his business and acts as though I am not even there..oh my. I love it.

CutieMouse said:

... It is a vulnerability, a pressed upon humility and embarrassment, but without any shame. ...

The odd thing is that objectification isn't about being "less" of a person, for me. for some sick and twisted reason, my brain reads "objectification" as "treasured"... which is another reason why I don't go there carelessly...

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This statement hits very close to home for my thoughts about humiliation/objectification. Part of the dynamic is to take her just beyond where she is comfortable and maybe a step more; however, it is always carefully controlled even if she does not realize it. To do this nothing elaborate is required, simple acts and phrases can do the trick wonderfully especially when you are out together.

I do not find you statement that it is odd to view objectification as being treasured to be accurate. I do not find it odd at all. Humiliation and objectification must be done in a caring relationship or else it is just abusive in my opinion. She should know that you will do anything to protect her and that knowledge allows her to take a step beyond what she would normally do in any other circumstance and to accept things from you which she would recoil from were it in any other context.

Being called, referred to as bitch/whore/fucktoy etc doesn't bother me at all as long as it from my Dom. Anyone else that calls me those names (including my husband) I get pissed on very turned off.