stephen55
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Climate change, earthquakes and tsunamis, oh my!!
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Tio_Narratore
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And here I thought it came from rubbing two cats together in a damned river! Imagine my chagrin at discovering my misinformationalled state!
stephen55
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You're as complete an ignoramus as I am.
But then Lloyd is the real moron. Electricity comes from burning coal...right. I put a match to a few lumps of the stuff and all I got was heat, smoke, burning kitchen drapes and a visit from the fire department.
'Lectricity?? Ain't no 'lectricity here..
RoyceConnors
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Damn, I'm going to take the world by storm with my idea then. I got a wheel with squirrels running in it and it's attached to a big wheel that makes sparks. I'm going to make bagillions I tell ya. Think of how many squirrels are out there doing nothing but getting fat all day. And they're free!!!!!!
Tio_Narratore
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You musn't be burning the special "electrical coal." You can't expect to get electricity from ordinary coal. Hell, even the ancient Greeks knew you got electricity by rubbing a helot with elektron!
stephen55
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The ancient Greeks? You're kidding me, right?
Aren't they the guys who thought the Earth wasn't flat? Morons...had some purty helots, thou...
Tio_Narratore
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Helots, you say. I didn't know you swung that way, Stephen. I'm more inclined towards the shelots, myself.
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Tio_Narratore
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It's usually quite electrifying...
stephen55
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Ouch...I walked right into that one...
Now, about rubbing two pussies together...I'm sure all the women of lit will do their part for green energy!!
Tio_Narratore
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and all the men will be out there encouraging them!!!
stephen55
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Bin dare, dun dat....save yurself a headache...
Furst, every second fur-ball was catchin' fire frum the sparks. Secund, damn things wouldn't run 'les ah fed 'em. Fur-ball feed was cuttin' inta my bottom line. Thurd, the local SPCA got wind ah whut I was doin' and nex' thing, a buncha treehuggerz wuz all over me.
So it didn't work. Still think it's got possibilities, thou...
Weird Harold
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Keep chuckin' 'em out there. He can't duck all of them.
He probably didn't clean it. Electrical Coal is just regular coal that has been cleaned in a special way.
stephen55
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A while back, there was a great scam going on the the US. It might have been shut down but I'm not sure.
Apparently back in the days of the first OPEC oil crisis, congress passed legislation granting big tax breaks for the production and use of "synthetic fuel". (Back in WWII the Germans were producing diesel and aviation gasoline from coal. It can be done, but it's very expensive.) The legislation was generally ignored.
But then some bright people had a look at it again. The definition of "synthetic" was simply any fuel that had been chemically altered. The tax breaks were structured so that as the price of oil went up, the benefits of the tax breaks went down. (corrected...got it wrong the first time)
So...get yourself some cheap coal, so poor in quality that no one wanted it for anything, douse it with used crankcase oil, substandard (unsellable) fertilizer, stale gasoline, pine tar resin, acid or whatever...and you now had "synthetic fuel". Burn it to generate electricity and congress would right you a check. The last article I read (in Time magazine, prior to 2007 I recall) spoke of about 9 billion in tax breaks created in this way.
So no, WH, I guess my coal wasn't cleaned properly!!
Found a link...
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1167738,00.html
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amicus
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What was it stupid stephen said before...that global warming caused earthquakes? Utter bullshit that and then his latest, about synthetic fuel...here is a Montana note on a source of fuel that could run all of Americas cars for a long long time...make your own judgment: http://governor.mt.gov/hottopics/faqsynthetic.asp
Amicus Veritas
(a true, 'friend of truth')
Amicus Veritas
(a true, 'friend of truth')
Huckleman2000
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Interesting. I've thought for years that melting ice sheets could indirectly trigger more earthquakes and seismic activity. Not just in the 'bounceback' of the earth's crust under the ice, but also in the greater mass of seawater sloshed around by the tidal forces.
Here's a study that found earthquakes are more likely to occur with strong tides.
Here's a study that found earthquakes are more likely to occur with strong tides.
stephen55
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What was it stupid stephen said before...that global warming caused earthquakes? Utter bullshit that and then his latest, about synthetic fuel...here is a Montana note on a source of fuel that could run all of Americas cars for a long long time...make your own judgment: http://governor.mt.gov/hottopics/faqsynthetic.asp
Amicus Veritas
Uh-uh-uh...ami. I've told you before to stop making up data and here you are making up more lies. I never said global warming caused earthquakes. That was Bill McGuire, professor at University College, who noted that, "When the ice is lost, the earth's crust bounces back up again and that triggers earthquakes, which trigger submarine landslides, which cause tsunamis," It was a new concept on me and we'll just have to wait for more loss of ice to see if the guy has it right.
If you read the Time article, you'll find that congress was talking about the production of diesel and gas from coal. Because of poor wording in the legislation, scam artists (coal types) did use coal sprayed with stuff like fertilizer, burned it and got their tax credits.
The coal can look and burn like regular coal. The IRS rule for transforming coal into synfuel--and getting the tax credit--requires only that the substance be chemically altered in some way. The alchemy that satisfies the IRS is a simple process: some plants spray newly mined coal with diesel fuel, pine-tar resin, limestone, acid or other substances--a practice that industry critics call "spray and pray." (From page two of the article.)
amicus
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~~~
Yes, the entire field of earthquake study is most interesting. There are several studies on the relationship of Lunar Gravity to Earth stresses and land movement; none are conclusive, but all are interesting theories.
Glacial melting is an act of nature, not man; just as Lunar forces are not man caused. Planet earth is dynamic, ever changing and ever new, as we are very new to observe our natural environment.
To attribute the monumental forces of nature to the activities of man, is an act of faith, not scholarly pursuits.
Amicus Veritas
stephen55
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Moving on...(I posted, when I wanted to preview), the really magnificent part of the scam, (to soak the American taxpayer, not that ami would object) was when the price of oil went up over $50 a barrel back in the mid-2000's, which decreased the tax break.
The legislation was written so that when the price of oil was low, which would discourage innovative (more expensive) ways of producing synthetic fuel, the tax credits were high. When oil started getting expensive again, the coal lobby went to work, spent several millions lobbying congress and voila! In Nov. 2005, when oil prices above $50 a barrel threatened the lucrative tax break, the coal lobby got congress to bury a little golden egg in a very large piece of tax legislation that now geared the tax break, not to the current price of oil, but to "the amount which was in effect for sales in calendar year 2004."
ami, I never said that diesel and gas couldn't be made from coal. I said the Germans were doing it back in WWII. The whole point was that while congress surely wanted to reduce American dependency on foreign oil, what they got was, as Lloyd Doggett, a Texas Democrat called the tax credit, "one of the worst tax loopholes on the books" and described the synfuel industry as "basically a sham."
When the American coal industry really starts producing gas and diesel from coal, in a way that is environmentally sound, sequesters the CO2 and strips out the sulpher then I'll pat them on the back. Until then, fuck off.
So, ami, a true friend of agnotology, try(sail) again.
The legislation was written so that when the price of oil was low, which would discourage innovative (more expensive) ways of producing synthetic fuel, the tax credits were high. When oil started getting expensive again, the coal lobby went to work, spent several millions lobbying congress and voila! In Nov. 2005, when oil prices above $50 a barrel threatened the lucrative tax break, the coal lobby got congress to bury a little golden egg in a very large piece of tax legislation that now geared the tax break, not to the current price of oil, but to "the amount which was in effect for sales in calendar year 2004."
ami, I never said that diesel and gas couldn't be made from coal. I said the Germans were doing it back in WWII. The whole point was that while congress surely wanted to reduce American dependency on foreign oil, what they got was, as Lloyd Doggett, a Texas Democrat called the tax credit, "one of the worst tax loopholes on the books" and described the synfuel industry as "basically a sham."
When the American coal industry really starts producing gas and diesel from coal, in a way that is environmentally sound, sequesters the CO2 and strips out the sulpher then I'll pat them on the back. Until then, fuck off.
So, ami, a true friend of agnotology, try(sail) again.
Tio_Narratore
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Extreme verbosity without substance seems to be your forte' stupid stephen. Forget the politics and consider the free market and the equation changes.
Live free or die!
Amicus Veritas
Slogans and blind belief are also without substance.
stephen55
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Wow!! It's all so clear now!!
Okay...I think I see your point.
The coal industry shouldn't have to pay taxes in the first place...so getting back 9 billion by scamming the American taxpayer is fair play.
Which means that it wasn't scamming at all. It was simply the Randian solution for an industry that struggles under the oppressive American Statist Collective tax burden.
Of course, it would have been simpler if Big Coal just quietly shut down and moved to Galt's Gultch.
Extreme verbosity without substance seems to be your forte' stupid stephen. Forget the politics and consider the free market and the equation changes.
Live free or die!
Amicus non Veritas
Okay...I think I see your point.
The coal industry shouldn't have to pay taxes in the first place...so getting back 9 billion by scamming the American taxpayer is fair play.
Which means that it wasn't scamming at all. It was simply the Randian solution for an industry that struggles under the oppressive American Statist Collective tax burden.
Of course, it would have been simpler if Big Coal just quietly shut down and moved to Galt's Gultch.
RoyceConnors
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Extreme verbosity without substance seems to be your forte' stupid stephen. Forget the politics and consider the free market and the equation changes.
Live free or die!
Amicus Veritas
And exactly where do you live free, dickhead? Sounds like you live life as a parasitic entity, feeding off the blood of others. Live free? You haven't got the first clue what that is. Ami, pffffft, loser
amicus
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I will use small words so that you intellectually challenged progressives might possibly understand.
I am a businessman...after years and years of working, I have accumulated an amount of surplus capital and I wish to invest it and hope to make a profit on my investment.
Now I know profit is a six letter dirty word to you, but hold your nose and use your mind; nobody works for free, not even you.
First, I must locate a potential mining site, take a chance and lease or buy the land, I actually negotiate for the lowest possible rent or purchase price on the unproven land which may or may not contain sufficient product to return the money I invested just to try to discover a valuable resource. Now that I have access to the land, I must bribe government with permits and license fees and a hundred other envirnomental requirements before I can even begin to explore and search for a coal vein.
But, of course, I must have proper equipment, another huge investment of capital and consider or acknowledge that not a penny is earned and will not be until I actually begin producing product.
Then, of course, the biggest investment of all, hiring a labor force to begin the process of mining. I have a 'nut' to crack, that of the initial investment in land, leases, permits, bribes to the government, equipment and now hiring people to work, which is the largest cost in any business, your work force. That I have to insure them is another cost factor, accident insurance,health insurance, paid vacations, sick leave, time off and workers who come to the job impaired with drug or alcohol addiction. So far I have invested a large sum of capital and thus far, not a penny is coming back.
It may be months or years before I am producing any product at all and yet my costs continue, day after day, month after month and my equipment is always subject to break downs or failures, which means costly down time, and a certain percentage of my workers, statistically, are late, don't show up for work, sleep or drink on the job or fail to perform their jobs. Safety is one of my major concerns, not because of rules and regulations, but because accidents andinjuries cost both time and money to resolve and it is in my best interest to use maximum safety procedures to keep my operation functioning.
Although I may have secured a contract with a buyer to purchase my product, the market fluctuates daily and my accountant informs me of the amount and quality and quantity of my product that I must produce each day to just cover the costs of servicing the loans I have taken out to conduct the operation and meet payroll, withholding taxes and continual maintenance on my equipment.
Then, of course, I must rent or create transportation routes, roads or rail, to move my product to market, added costs of doing business that factor in to what I must charge for my product just to cover the costs of doing business.
It will be years before i ever begin to produce enough product to begin to show a profit on my investment and the typical return on capital investments are usually below ten percent, supermarkets operate with a two to three percent net profit margin, other types of business strive for a ten percent return, but very few manage even that and that is all before taxes, which are assessed at every stage of the operation, including my personal income and that of the corporation I have formed to do business under State and Federal laws.
It will take years, between five and ten years, before I can recoup my origninal investment and actually begin to show a profit from my gamble.
I must utilize every method of efficiency and continuity; I never get a day off and am on call 24/7 as it is my baby and it lives or dies, prospers or falters according to my dedication and constant nurturing.
Government of course, has none of those worries or concerns. Government does not have to make a profit, indeed most government operations operate at a loss, subsidized by public tax payers and since they have no skin in the game, it doesn't matter if they succeed or fail or produce shoddy or unsafe products.
The mere act of participating in business as an owner inherently builds character in the individual and is transmitted to all who participate at all levels; it is a moral and ethical process by nature, requiring integrity, productive work, timely and punctual work habits, logistics, supplies ordered ahead of time and delivered on top, equipment that functions each and every time and honesty in dealing with all those on site and off and all suppliers, all buyers and all workers, plus adjacent land owners, all requiring ethical and moral social interactions and intercourse.
The end result is the production of a needed commodity, the production of jobs, the establishment of a viable company or corporation and, if one is marginally successful, a paycheck for the owner, satisfying the loan obligations and expanding the efforts of all involved.
Such is the innate and inherent beauty of capitalism, the free market system, where each and every participant is free to come and go at their own choice and to learn, advance and expand the abilities of each worker to be more productive in a foreman or management capacity, all of which also contains a moral and ethical factor in dealing with both subordinates and those for whom one works.
Government enterprise and government workers have no such incentives and by definition, produce inferior products that cost more to produce and only the bureaucrats profit as they steal from the enterprise to fill their own profits without ever lifting a finger in real work, and usually without any knowledge of the actual mechanics of whatever industry they infest.
Take that to the bank.
Amicus Veritas
I am a businessman...after years and years of working, I have accumulated an amount of surplus capital and I wish to invest it and hope to make a profit on my investment.
Now I know profit is a six letter dirty word to you, but hold your nose and use your mind; nobody works for free, not even you.
First, I must locate a potential mining site, take a chance and lease or buy the land, I actually negotiate for the lowest possible rent or purchase price on the unproven land which may or may not contain sufficient product to return the money I invested just to try to discover a valuable resource. Now that I have access to the land, I must bribe government with permits and license fees and a hundred other envirnomental requirements before I can even begin to explore and search for a coal vein.
But, of course, I must have proper equipment, another huge investment of capital and consider or acknowledge that not a penny is earned and will not be until I actually begin producing product.
Then, of course, the biggest investment of all, hiring a labor force to begin the process of mining. I have a 'nut' to crack, that of the initial investment in land, leases, permits, bribes to the government, equipment and now hiring people to work, which is the largest cost in any business, your work force. That I have to insure them is another cost factor, accident insurance,health insurance, paid vacations, sick leave, time off and workers who come to the job impaired with drug or alcohol addiction. So far I have invested a large sum of capital and thus far, not a penny is coming back.
It may be months or years before I am producing any product at all and yet my costs continue, day after day, month after month and my equipment is always subject to break downs or failures, which means costly down time, and a certain percentage of my workers, statistically, are late, don't show up for work, sleep or drink on the job or fail to perform their jobs. Safety is one of my major concerns, not because of rules and regulations, but because accidents andinjuries cost both time and money to resolve and it is in my best interest to use maximum safety procedures to keep my operation functioning.
Although I may have secured a contract with a buyer to purchase my product, the market fluctuates daily and my accountant informs me of the amount and quality and quantity of my product that I must produce each day to just cover the costs of servicing the loans I have taken out to conduct the operation and meet payroll, withholding taxes and continual maintenance on my equipment.
Then, of course, I must rent or create transportation routes, roads or rail, to move my product to market, added costs of doing business that factor in to what I must charge for my product just to cover the costs of doing business.
It will be years before i ever begin to produce enough product to begin to show a profit on my investment and the typical return on capital investments are usually below ten percent, supermarkets operate with a two to three percent net profit margin, other types of business strive for a ten percent return, but very few manage even that and that is all before taxes, which are assessed at every stage of the operation, including my personal income and that of the corporation I have formed to do business under State and Federal laws.
It will take years, between five and ten years, before I can recoup my origninal investment and actually begin to show a profit from my gamble.
I must utilize every method of efficiency and continuity; I never get a day off and am on call 24/7 as it is my baby and it lives or dies, prospers or falters according to my dedication and constant nurturing.
Government of course, has none of those worries or concerns. Government does not have to make a profit, indeed most government operations operate at a loss, subsidized by public tax payers and since they have no skin in the game, it doesn't matter if they succeed or fail or produce shoddy or unsafe products.
The mere act of participating in business as an owner inherently builds character in the individual and is transmitted to all who participate at all levels; it is a moral and ethical process by nature, requiring integrity, productive work, timely and punctual work habits, logistics, supplies ordered ahead of time and delivered on top, equipment that functions each and every time and honesty in dealing with all those on site and off and all suppliers, all buyers and all workers, plus adjacent land owners, all requiring ethical and moral social interactions and intercourse.
The end result is the production of a needed commodity, the production of jobs, the establishment of a viable company or corporation and, if one is marginally successful, a paycheck for the owner, satisfying the loan obligations and expanding the efforts of all involved.
Such is the innate and inherent beauty of capitalism, the free market system, where each and every participant is free to come and go at their own choice and to learn, advance and expand the abilities of each worker to be more productive in a foreman or management capacity, all of which also contains a moral and ethical factor in dealing with both subordinates and those for whom one works.
Government enterprise and government workers have no such incentives and by definition, produce inferior products that cost more to produce and only the bureaucrats profit as they steal from the enterprise to fill their own profits without ever lifting a finger in real work, and usually without any knowledge of the actual mechanics of whatever industry they infest.
Take that to the bank.
Amicus Veritas
stephen55
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I will use small words so that you intellectually challenged progressives might possibly understand.
Amicus Vacuus Lacuna
Something about "Extreme verbosity without substance" come to mind.
Can you do it in fewer words?
