What happened to all of the doom and gloom economic threads?

phrodeau said:

You're my new best friend, after d8rape.

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vetteman said:

Yeah right! I can't remember years when we didn't have fucked up weather somewhere in the country, it's just that today with the 24/7 news cycle you hear about it all.

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Um yeah, I'm not disputing the weather. I'm saying our infrastructure should be able to accomadate it without a major breakout in services every other month.

vetteman said:

Yeah, let's shut them all down now to get the silver pony tail vote and then suffer for decades while it get's rebuilt at ten times the cost and bullshit.

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We can build them first if you prefer but build them we should.

TexasWife25 said:

Um yeah, I'm not disputing the weather. I'm saying our infrastructure should be able to accomadate it without a major breakout in services every other month.

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Well that's one of those tiny problems with privatization of power. You can't effectively have them competing with each other in most areas and they don't want to be building plants they don't need to cover extremely high energy usage. They want to be running at as close to 100% as they can safely manage. It's just what it is.

vetteman said:

Let's let a bunch of 30 somethings over at EPA shut down dozens of power plants, close businesses, and put people out of work, and help the situation.

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Or lets build new cleaner power plants and open new businesses to support them.

vetteman said:

The Obama " I have a better plan" administration has decided to force them to close first by imposing impossible standards, the costs of which, cannot be absorbed by future sales.

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Hey, I didn't say that was a good idea. In fact it's a bad idea. The right however seems to dig in so deep on transfering to a green economy that the only way to get you to give an inch is to simply shut down shit and force you to deal.

As for being absorbed by future sales They'll figure it out if not in the short term in the long term. Besides between solar and wind maybe it's time we started winding down this industry to begin with. When we're shutting down wind farms because demand isn't keeping pace with supply. I say it's time to find someone who wants to build a business with extremely low cost, or free electricity. That's the kind of problem I like having.

vetteman said:

Yeah, let's shut them all down now to get the silver pony tail vote and then suffer for decades while it get's rebuilt at ten times the cost and bullshit.

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I can't remember the person name but in the Washington post is a really great article about emp's and national power grid.

vetteman said:

The plants are closing, their management has spoken. Nobody is figuring out anything except environmental wackos in the EPA who think they are running the country. The market has made it's decision, the Obama policy is fucked. It takes freedom loving people to fun a free country, not a bunch of totalitarian master minds with Utopian goals.

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I agree that closing the plants without an alternative in place (which I bet they have in the places these plants are going down). When it comes to the enviroment however fuck the market. If the market is being stubborn or stupid we force it to do the right thing, we don't stand by and shrug our shoulders.

There are a ton of shades of grey between totalitarian master minds and occasionally shaping events and we damn well better shape our own fate.

Sean Renaud said:

Hey, I didn't say that was a good idea. In fact it's a bad idea. The right however seems to dig in so deep on transfering to a green economy that the only way to get you to give an inch is to simply shut down shit and force you to deal.

As for being absorbed by future sales They'll figure it out if not in the short term in the long term. Besides between solar and wind maybe it's time we started winding down this industry to begin with. When we're shutting down wind farms because demand isn't keeping pace with supply. I say it's time to find someone who wants to build a business with extremely low cost, or free electricity. That's the kind of problem I like having.

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It's crap like this that get's me going. The FACT of the matter is that the conservatives are as eager to see the green reality as the star gazing left. The difference is economic reality.

You, in your post, state that "it's a bad idea" to force the closure of power generation facilities without having something to replace them. It's not just 'bad', it's patently stupid. It merely further stresses an economy that's not in the best of shape to begin with. It's difficult for me to comprehend how a government without revenue is going to be able to take care of those with no jobs? (Yeah, yeah, tax the 'rich.' What happens when you run out of 'rich'?)

It's all driven by economics. When it is economically unfeasible, in an open market, to maintain and operate a plant, that plant will close of it's own volition. No government regulation or edict will be required. And the owners will either close the plant for upgrade, close it to build a new and more efficient facility, or shut the doors forever.

The 'forever' option is usually exercised when the permitting and costs of upgrade/new exceed the ROI of the plant over the usual 30 yr. life expectancy of the facility.

Laying the blame at the feet of the 'right' is nothing more than a convenient way of saying, "I don't have a fucking clue so I'm going to blame someone else for my ignorance."

Believe it or not, the EPA is one of the major obstacles to the implementation of 'green' on a personal level. That and government of all sorts, local, state, and federal. Their regulations, policies, and laws tend to favor, and protect, the large producers. From their standpoint it makes perfect sense, centralized control while garnering public favor by pretending to be 'doing' something. Virtually none of them are capable of thinking outside the box and even fewer are interested in looking at, let alone putting in place, a 30 yr. development plan. And that is what it's going to take, the investors HAVE to have a reasonable ROI. And that is true for the government itself as well, we've already seen the results of government investment in solar. But instead of individual risk takers losing their ass it is the taxpayer whose left assless.

Ishmael

The Evangelical, hard, Christian Right that is so vilified and despised, is currently running ads supporting ObamaClaire McCaskell based upon her green record, but one never hears about that as we go after those evil rw'ers trying to force their morality on us.

Now, with China's state-run oil company CNOOC poised to cut a $15.1 billion deal--the largest ever foreign acquisition for a Chinese company--with Canadian oil company Nexen, Sen. Charles Schumer (D-NY) and Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) are in full backpedal mode.

In a draft letter to the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States (CFIUS), Sen. Schumer writes:

I respectfully urge you, in your capacity as chairman of the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States (CFIUS), to withhold approval of this transaction to ensure U.S. companies reciprocal treatment.

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Similarly, Rep. Pelosi is now sounding alarms of concern. In a statement, Pelosi spokesperson Drew Hamill said:

This deal prompts great concern about the Chinese government's continued attempts to use its state-owned enterprises to acquire global energy resources.

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http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/...-China-Readies-15-1-Billion-Canadian-Oil-Deal

The laws of unintended consequences...

Mr. Geithner responded:

We, at least I, first learned about those concerns in the early parts of spring of 2008 and we acted very quickly at that stage. At that time, this is in the spring of 2008, we took a very careful look at these concerns, we thought those concerns were justified.

And we took the initiative to bring those concerns to the attention of the broader U.S. regulatory community, including all the agencies that have responsibility for market manipulation and abuse.

Still, the Fed itself continued to use the LIBOR rate. Rep. Scott Garrett seized on the glaring inconsistency:

You have been before this committee countless numbers of times since 2008, and if this is the crime of the century, as so many people are reporting today, never once did you ever once come and mention it as being a problem -- never once did you come here and say this is what you're going to do about it.

Similarly, Rep. Jeb Hensarling challenged Geithner:

It appears that the early response was to keep using it, which means it appears that you treated it as almost a curiosity or something akin to jay-walking instead of highway robbery.

Mr. Geithner's response: "I think that was the best choice at the time."

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This was the same thing he did at the NY Fed as the housing bubble was popping. He kept the public in the dark while warning everyone in government (for which he was richly rewarded, gratitude for fortunes saved) and working to keep the Financial Houses out of the mess they got themselves into with derivatives (which were created to thwart regulations while the Fed watched and Moody's provided the models for).

It's now been about five years since Fed chairman Ben Bernanke's Great Historic Experiment was put into operation. "Bernanke's historic experiment takes center stage" It was a truly remarkable time, because Bernanke was going to put his life's theory to the test -- that the Great Depression could have been avoided if only the Fed had lowered interest rates by a small amount. It was a truly historic moment, and five years later we know that the experiment was a total failure. The Fed lowered interest rates pretty much to zero, which is where they are now, and supplemented those steps with massive monetary and fiscal "money printing" policies. Similar actions were taken by the ECB, the Bank of England, the People's Bank of China, and other central banks. And the global economy is still slowing down. Ben Bernanke's Great Historic Experiment has been a failure.

On Thursday, Britain announced the worst recession in its history. On Friday, the U.S. Commerce Department showed that the U.S. economy is colling quickly, at a time when "experts" and politicians wishfully had hoped that the recovery would be "self-sustaining." Germany is supposed to be the savior of Europe, but German newspapers are reporting an "uncomfortable and bitter truth": profits, sales and earnings of Germany companies are also cooling.

Bernanke's Great Historic Experiment never had a chance because, as I wrote in 2007, it overlooks generational changes in the U.S. and the world population. If you don't believe this, Dear Reader, then ask yourself the following question: Would you go back into debt today the way you did in 2003-2007? Or are you saving your pennies, for fear of losing your job or your savings? Most people would agree to the second option, and that's the point. You can't have a "self-sustaining" recovery when people are cutting back. Friday's report that the economy is cooling is based on evidence that people are spending less than they used to. People have been badly burned, and they will never go back to their old ways for the rest of their lives. That's why it won't be until the 2020s that a "self-sustaining" recovery can begin.

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JOHN J. XENAKIS
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/...dering-naval-bases-in-Vietnam-Cuba-Seychelles

I was raised by survivors of the last Depression and they never changed their habits of scrimping.

Sean Renaud said:

I agree that closing the plants without an alternative in place (which I bet they have in the places these plants are going down). When it comes to the enviroment however fuck the market. If the market is being stubborn or stupid we force it to do the right thing, we don't stand by and shrug our shoulders.

There are a ton of shades of grey between totalitarian master minds and occasionally shaping events and we damn well better shape our own fate.

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Correct. There will be no blackouts.

There is a Gawd and he loves Missourah,

Sen. ObamaClaire McCaskill (D-Mo.) trails all three of her potential Republican rivals, according to a new survey conducted for two Missouri news outlets, cementing her status as this cycle's most vulnerable incumbent.

Businessman John Brunner (R) holds the largest advantage over McCaskill, leading by a 52 perent to 41 percent margin. Former state Treasurer Sarah Steelman (R) leads by a 49 percent to 41 percent margin. And Rep. Todd Akin (R) leads by a 49 percent to 44 percent margin.

McCaskill's big problems come among independent voters. She scores just 40 percent among independents against Akin, and she's mired in the mid-30s when she's matched up with Brunner and Steelman. And while McCaskill has said she would like President Obama to campaign with her, Obama wouldn't be much of an advantage -- the poll shows Obama trails Mitt Romney by a 51 percent to 42 percent margin.

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Townhall.com

4est_4est_Gump said:

There is a Gawd and he loves Missourah,



Townhall.com

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Claire McCaskill is horrible.

mercury14 said:

Claire McCaskill is horrible.

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No where near as horrible as Turbo TIMMAH!


Why she's just like us! Gawd, Guns, Bibles...,

4est_4est_Gump said:

No where near as horrible as Turbo TIMMAH!

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Who's that?

mercury14 said:

Who's that?

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FAG FENDY



If you answer, NIGGERPOONZANDI, you deserve to be lynched

Out here in the fields...


Who's Next?

So after looking into the GROWING GDP report

We see that about HALF is from

CHANNEL STUFFING

Further, 87% of GM sales are now SUB PRIME loan backed


WE ALL FUCKING KNOW WHAT THE ABOVE MEANS

NIGGERZ, LIBZ AND DUMZ dont know

And our 1/32 Cherokee is back on the sub-prime housing lending...



She's going to talk it up at the convention...



Er, uh..., POW WOW!