When does it stop being Dom/Sub and become abuse?

I think it definitely sounds dodgy. The fact that he's stopped her from talking with friends is definitely not part of a healthy relationship whether bdsm or vanilla. And I can't see that telling her that she wouldn't want to be friends
with you if she loved him, is the action of a man she should be offering willing submission to.
The fact that there isn't a safe word too is suspect. It sounds like he wants her to do things whether she's happy and comfortable with them or not. That's not being a responsible Dom.

I agree with everyone that said this is abuse. For me submission is getting pleasure and satisfaction. I am new to BDSM, but would never agree to those kinds of ultimatums, it just isn't a turn on.

Sam xx

I don't think I can offer an opinion on whether this abuse or not, although it does sound less than ideal. However, I do have two observations.

You characterize yourself as a friend, but you aren't clear on whether you are a man or a woman. I infer from the thread that you are male but I am not certain. If you are a man did you have a past romantic relationship with this woman? It is not realistic to expect a guy to be indifferent to his gf having surreptitious communication with an ex boyfriend. That is no excuse for him behaving like an asshole, but if you have just conveniently glossed over this little fact it calls into question your credibility as well.

Domination, control, leadership - these words are not synonymous with aggressive behaviour. Good leaders know that aggressive behaviour drives people away and undermines authority. Someone who has to yell and scream and threaten isn't in control and therefore neither leading nor qualified to lead. A strong leader commands respect with a look or gesture or few soft words. And a good leader understands that their role is one of authority not self-indulgence - they must look after those that they lead not regard them as chattel. Yes there are times when aggression is part of the program but this isn't Platoon. If there isn't reason to believe that this is part of the BDSM experience that you both want, this guy sounds more like a poser who doesn't know what he is doing.

SlutAddicted said:

I don't think I can offer an opinion on whether this abuse or not, although it does sound less than ideal. However, I do have two observations.

You characterize yourself as a friend, but you aren't clear on whether you are a man or a woman. I infer from the thread that you are male but I am not certain. If you are a man did you have a past romantic relationship with this woman? It is not realistic to expect a guy to be indifferent to his gf having surreptitious communication with an ex boyfriend. That is no excuse for him behaving like an asshole, but if you have just conveniently glossed over this little fact it calls into question your credibility as well.

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I think you missed post #8: "she and i had a brief relationship which ended 7 months ago".

Bramblethorn said:

I think you missed post #8: "she and i had a brief relationship which ended 7 months ago".

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I saw that but it was kind of sparse on the nature of the relationship and/or whether you are a man - kind of seemed like it but you never know. Which goes to the point that you aren't sharing much about your dynamic with her and how that might affect his perception. Most guys are sensitive to their gf hanging out with an ex no matter what they say about just being friends.

SlutAddicted said:

I saw that but it was kind of sparse on the nature of the relationship and/or whether you are a man - kind of seemed like it but you never know. Which goes to the point that you aren't sharing much about your dynamic with her and how that might affect his perception. Most guys are sensitive to their gf hanging out with an ex no matter what they say about just being friends.

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To be clear, I'm not the original poster.

When consent is revoked, when you are in fear of your Dom/sub, when a hard limit is broken, and honestly when there's no aftercare involved.

Bramblethorn said:

To be clear, I'm not the original poster.

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Oh yes, thanks for pointing that out. I saw the "I" in your last posting without noting the quotation marks or name.

In any event, the behaviour of this supposed Dom seems off base but the OP seems to be a bit selective with the info as well. I am getting pretty skeptical about scenarios painted out by third parties to look cut and dried.

Bramblethorn said:

I understand they toned down some of his behaviour for the film, but from the commentary I've seen book!Christian is most certainly an abuser.

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I don't know. Certainly people argue that he was, and maybe he was, but frankly, since reading that dreck was abuse of my brain cells, I will probably never know.

That is definitely abuse, social isolation creeps me out. It's not even hot.

I think, women naturally need a lot of support, especially from other women. That should be encouraged for healthy mental development. The guy in question is not healthy.

[Karhu writing] I know this thread is necro'ed, but the subject is too important. The guy sounds like a narcissist, and should be avoided at all costs. My partner Kissa was married to one for over seven years. He was the cerebral kind of narcissist, and denied her sex for almost eight years (or rather: his veiled overtures of "Do you want to take a shower with me?" would've just have meant a blowjob, and then her doing all the work, not getting anything in return).

Anyway, he was verbally abusive, belittled her by calling her fat, ugly and stupid, criticized her choice of friends, threatened her repeatedly to divorce her, etc. If you have a friend - or find yourself - in the grasp of a narcissist, break loose as soon as possible. Things won't get better, as he (it's usually a man) is more in love with himself and his control of his partner, than loving her.

http://www.lifehack.org/articles/communication/15-things-narcissists-dont.html

mrb09 said:

Am i right to be worried about his behaviour?

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Yes indeed.

mrb09 said:

I think you have hit the nail right on the head here, and it is why i asked the question, my doubt was i was allowing my own issues to negatively affect how i saw their relationship.
He has used me being angry about how she acted as a friend to make out that im a jealous ex that just wants her back, and claim i would physically harm her.
She herself knows that it isnt true and has said as much to both me and him.
He doesnt seem interested in what she wants and her feelings, he claims he is doing what is best for her, but surely if she has made it clear that she wants me around as her friend he must consider that?

I have tried giving him the benefit of the doubt, but the more time goes on, the more i hear, the more i worry.
For example she messaged me on skype last night to say hi, then deleted it before i could reply, i said hi back, and left it up to her if she wanted to talk, she then blocked me this afternoon.

She wants me in her life but is afraid of what he will do/terrified to lose him.

Earlier this week when she contacted me she told me she could only talk to me in secret as she was afraid, even when she did then tell him that we had spoke and she wanted to be friends with me again, to see me, she was too afraid to tell him she made first contact, she told him i called her.

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To add my 2 cents here -- yes, it does sound he crossed the line into abuser, an emotionally manipulative one. The biggest red flag is her saying that she didn't know what he'd do if he found out she'd been talking to the OP.

BUT-- he had every right to be jealous of the OP still being involved with her since they were in a relationship less than a year before. And the OP clearly didn't respect that. So she cancelled plans with the OP to be with him? Of course she did! As HER EX, it's not his place to be put ahead of her dom/boyfriend/husband, etc.

I'm all for remaining friends with one's exes but the ex also needs to understand that they need to back off when one enters a new relationship. It would be nice if the OP was just worried about her because he thought that her new man had become abusively controlling, but some things the OP himself said suggested that that wasn't all there was to it. Part of what was happening is that her man was reacting to the OP's intrusion into their relationship. I would not react the way he did but I wouldn't not react either. I know that if my sub/lover were still such good friends with someone they were in a relationship with so recently who kept calling and everything, I'd be jealous too.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't do anything if you think your ex is now in an abusive relationship. Far from it! All to often a person who is being abused feels trapped because there is no one who will help. This is especially true when the abuser is emotionally manipulative. Not many people will recognize it as abuse if you're not sporting a black eye or something. But you can't expect your ex to still make you a big part of her life and not provoke her new partner into feeling jealous. Jealousy from your ex's new partner--as in, yes, including not wanting her to hang with you so much-- is a normal reaction. The new partner should be treated with some respect and consideration, at least until they've proven that they're controlling and abusive. It sounds to me like the OP still expected to be an important part of her life and resented her not spending as much time on him as she did her new partner.

For the part of the woman in question, it sounds to me like she was the rope in their tug-of-war. Perhaps she was going from one controlling, manipulative dome to another without realizing that neither of them were good doms. Regardless, I hope she got our of that relationship--and learned to set boundaries with her exes.

SubmissiveMom said:

The 'Safe Word' is the most important thing in any BDSM relationship or activity x To be engaged as the Sub in any sexual environment without a 'Safe word' or when the 'safe word' is ignored when uttered or shouted is when it becomes Abuse x x x

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Agreed.

hey

Yes its time from what you said

It stops being a trusted Dom/Sub relationship and becomes abuse when the 'safe word' is ignored, or the 'trusted' partner walks out on you through jealousy or whatever without telling the 'safe word' x

Can develop into a 'gangbang' or genuinely unwanted penetration, even if totally sub, more so if tied or blindfolded x I had to be rescued by the hosts at my last party and that's why me and my first hubby seperated x x x