Hate crimes against Jews are up 400% since Donnie took office.

Mello_SixtyNine said:

Isn't Trump's son-in-law Jewish? And didn't Ivanka convert when she married him? Dinner's with pop would probably be difficult if he was an actual anti-semite.

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Apparently President Kushner, too, just doesn't care what trouble his FIL's rhetoric causes.

hashtag46 said:

Liberals are right from one pov.
- Our ancestors -more specifically, their leaders- were responsible for a lot of injustice and atrocities against non-whites.
And whites still have more power than other ethnic groups at the moments, so racist attitudes on their part are likely to be far more damaging and we should guard against them.

But it's not like whites are more prone to evil and racism than non-whites.
There are blacks, asians and latinos who have anti- white attitudes too. It's just that they didn't or don't have the power.



I'm with libs. when it comes to taking a stance against racism.

But what annoys me about the mainstream liberal rhetoric, is that they come across as having an ulterior motive:
They seem to have an anti- white agenda, as in villifying and trying to weaken the european western mainstream culture. As evidenced by their attacks on Christianity while indiscriminately propping other religions, and other attacks on one's sense of national identity.

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Oh, give us a break. As soon as you equate Christianity with "mainstream culture" and "national identity" you are setting one god above all the others. That ain't America, toots.

Mello_SixtyNine said:

Isn't Trump's son-in-law Jewish? And didn't Ivanka convert when she married him? Dinner's with pop would probably be difficult if he was an actual anti-semite.

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Remember Roy Cohn? He was Donald Trump's lawyer for 13 years. Roy Cohn was Jewish, but used anti-Semitic rhetoric in his career. He was also gay, and used homophobic rhetoric as well. Donald learned a lot from Roy.

KingOrfeo said:

Not if progressivism/social democracy is what you mean by "neo-socialism," which is not a good name for it.

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Not a good name, but a far more honest one than 'progressivism' .

KingOrfeo said:

What do you base that on?

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Take your pick.....the hypocrisy to the fantasy that more government control is the cure all to our 1st world woes.

BotanyBoy said:

Not a good name, but a far more honest one than 'progressivism' .

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It's not the same as Progressive Era progressivism, but political terms do change their meaning over time, and today's progressives are not trying to claim TR's legacy. "Progressive" is as good a name as any for a politics well to the right of "socialist" and well to the left of "liberal," and since nobody else is claiming the name, why not let the social democrats have it?

BotanyBoy said:

Take your pick.....the hypocrisy to the fantasy that more government control is the cure all to our 1st world woes.

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I have no reason to believe Sanders is hypocritical about his politics, nor that their value is a fantasy, and neither do you. What works in the social democracies can work just as well here -- and better, because of economies of scale.

phrodeau said:

Oh, give us a break. As soon as you equate Christianity with "mainstream culture" and "national identity" you are setting one god above all the others. That ain't America, toots.

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It is in Europe.

But mind you, most europeans, as well as australians have a far more moderate attitude towards religion, than americans do. They focus more on the cultural- traditional, spiritual aspect, and a lot less on the right wing extremist stuff.
-- And as far as the inter-personal aspect of religion is concerned, they see it as a thing that helps people relate and see their shared humanity. They focus a lot less on the judgy right wing stuff.

I'm atheist as well and I get that in many cases, the institutional part of religion has become too oppressive and right-wing, and that it should change. But many liberal go too far beyond that, and attack and try to undermine Christianity as a rule, while muslims don't do that.
From that pov, they are better than we are. They respect their heritage and what glues them together and even ensures their continuity in time.

KingOrfeo said:

I don't know if it's still going on, but Gypsies/Roma in Europe certainly have suffered a lot of discrimination in the past, and the Nazis treated them the same as Jews.

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That's certainly true. And the injustice or even atrocities that they suffered in the past are not properly acknowledged.
But attitudes have changed. We all live in the 21st century now.

KingOrfeo said:

1.Anti-Gypsy feeling certainly is a form of racism, in the European tradition of equating nationalities/ethnicities with races.
Have you ever seen that happening? Would you even know a Roma if you saw one?
There is certainly a cultural stereotype that Gypsies are thieves,

2.but I don't know of any statistics to back it up -- do you?

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2.Statistics. It's like the religion of truth for you guys..
Most statistics include just nationality.

If one paid less attention to the internet propaganda pushed forefront by google search engines , and had instead a chat with european immigrants, they'll see that quite a few of them -or their friends- had such experiences
(picketpocketted by certain gipsy bands, seen gipsy kids being forced by their parents to beg on streets etc.).

KingOrfeo said:

Racism is one of several forms of prejudice, and anti-Gypsy feeling certainly is a form of racism, in the European tradition of equating nationalities/ethnicities with races.

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There are pockets of racism against gipsies, just as there are pockets of anti- semitism too in Europe. And those Should be acknowledged and addressed.
But don't generalise. Times have changed, and there's no longer a european "cultural tradition" of racism against gipsies now, in the 21st century.

Those are stereotypes, based on reality (that unfortunately, some gipsies prefer begging or stealing to regular jobs).
They are just a sortof initial self- protection mechanism when one meets a stranger that acts in an unusual manner, like squashing you in a bus. But once you get to know that person and he proves to be ok, you see him no differently than you view anyone else,

Just like the stereotype that germans are perceived to be unimaginative, brits to be tedious and boring, and dutch and indians to be more cut throat, french are arrogant, spanish are lazy and have poor work ethics, or that fair skinned europeans age badly. and so on.

Yet none of the liberals claimed that other europeans are racist against or anti- germsns or anti- dutch or whatever.

I feel as if I've wasted an hour or so reading through all of this that I'll never get back.

I could honestly give a rat's ass less if Jews control the media...after all, according to Trump, it's fake anyway.

Racism is everywhere you turn. It isn't directed solely on one group, race, religion, etc. At the end of the day, it's disgusting, deplorable, and so unnecessary.

I'm suddenly reminded of Rodney King, who at one point posed the query, "Can't we all just get along?!" Obviously not, because for some inexplicable reason, no one can budge from their particular point of belief...everyone has got to be right no matter the cost, and those in the same mindset have to push through their agenda because it, above all else is right.

I honestly wish I knew the solution to all of this bullshit. I suppose if I did, The Nobel Peace Prize would be in my future.

I've just had it with terroristic plots and attacks. I've had it with worrying if I'm going to be attacked by someone who doesn't like me for whatever the reason might be...too white? My faith? My opinions? My values? I have too many freckles on my face?

I've had it with the all or nothing rhetoric. I feel like I'm surrounded by a bunch of stubborn kids fighting over a stupid kickball at recess. "It's my ball!" "It was mine first!" "She called me a dickweed!" "He called me a douchebag!"

"He said I belong on a plantation..."
"Yeah, well she told me that I am clueless and don't have a clue as to what I'm talking about..."

Here's a news flash. You're acting like overgrown children. Anti-Semitism has increased. It is heinous and unacceptable...period. Do something about it...put up or shut up. Sheesh!

Okay, time for y'all to go off on me and tear my post to shreds...from what I've read, you're all exceptional at it.

hashtag46 said:

Times have changed, and there's no longer a european "cultural tradition" of racism against gipsies now, in the 21st century.

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Perhaps not, but the European tradition of equating nationalities/ethnicities with races, which goes back to the beginnings of modern nationalism in the early 19th Century, clearly has not died out; we can see it in the attitudes of many French and Germans to Muslim immigrants -- even third- or fourth-generation immigrants -- in their assumption that while such perhaps can be tolerated in France/Germany, they can never truly be French/German. The reason the Turkish Gastarbeiter have such such a hard time gaining German citizenship, even if they were born and raised in Germany, is that even today German citizenship passes by jus sanguinis -- right of blood -- rather than jus soli as in the U.S.

That's why Zionism why was ever a thing -- because the various nationalisms of Europe all included Jews out of the definition of the "nation," therefore obviously they needed their own national territory elsewhere -- and I understand that that mild form of anti-Semitism, if so it can be called, survives in Europe to this day.

Sherilyn66 said:

I honestly wish I knew the solution to all of this bullshit. I suppose if I did, The Nobel Peace Prize would be in my future.

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Oh, that's easy: Free distribution of ecstasy pills.

I once heard a police officer give a talk about a party he busted where everyone was on X, and everyone they arrested was all apologetic and saying things like, "Gee, officer, we're sorry to put you to all this trouble, sorry you had to come out here," which is not the kind of thing a cop normally hears while busting a party. Apparently it's just about impossible to be mean or nasty or anything but empathetic while rolling. He mentioned in the same talk that there had been an experimental program to prescribe X to couples with troubled marriages -- fuck that shit, they should be giving this stuff to political leaders and diplomats!

queertag46 said:

Just like we are seeing here at lit, the rest of the RW racists are feeling safer to practice their own special brand of hate. You'd think they would be happy they won but all they can do is whine and preach their hate.

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So in less than a month anti-Semitic acts quadrupled.

Wanna buy a bridge?

And why no mention of the rampant anti-Semitism on college campuses - the bastion of leftist extremism.

Asinine.

water505 said:

And why no mention of the rampant anti-Semitism on college campuses - the bastion of leftist extremism.

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So mention it. What campus anti-Semitism have you heard of?

KingOrfeo said:

So mention it. What campus anti-Semitism have you heard of?

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If you got your news from sources other than Facebook and commie.com you'd know.

Take the "cite" shit and shove it up your ass. Don't blame me because you choose to be uninformed.

KingOrfeo said:

What works in the social democracies can work just as well here -- and better, because of economies of scale.

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Well, at least there's more loot to steal before it all goes down the toilet.
Venezuela has massive oil reserves, so that delayed putting that country down the shitter for a few years. But that's what happens to all of them eventually.

KingOrfeo said:

Perhaps not, but the European tradition of equating nationalities/ethnicities with races, which goes back to the beginnings of modern nationalism in the early 19th Century, clearly has not died out; we can see it in the attitudes of many French and Germans to Muslim immigrants -- even third- or fourth-generation immigrants -- in their assumption that while such perhaps can be tolerated in France/Germany, they can never truly be French/German. The reason the Turkish Gastarbeiter have such such a hard time gaining German citizenship, even if they were born and raised in Germany, is that even today German citizenship passes by jus sanguinis -- right of blood -- rather than jus soli as in the U.S.

That's why Zionism why was ever a thing -- because the various nationalisms of Europe all included Jews out of the definition of the "nation," therefore obviously they needed their own national territory elsewhere -- and I understand that that mild form of anti-Semitism, if so it can be called, survives in Europe to this day.

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I agree with your entire comment. You are right. Racism still exists in Europe., and hasn't died out entirely. And you obviously have more knowledge than I have, to back your claim through historical evidence.

I have no issue with such views. I only have an issue with those
- who either generalise (ie most europeans or all those who elected Trump aka half of the US, or all of those who oppose illegal immigragion -- are racists)
- or who are partisans in that they only focus on the ills of whites, and refuse to acknowledge that non- whites are capable of evil (racism included) too.


I might be white, but do you think that my "white privilege" saved me from facing xenophobic attitudes?
I was treated overall well, but I also had -a very small nomber, fortunately- of such experiences. But I faced them in an equal proportion from both white and non-white locals.

water505 said:

If you got your news from sources other than Facebook and commie.com you'd know.

Take the "cite" shit and shove it up your ass. Don't blame me because you choose to be uninformed.

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So, you're just talking out your ass.

KingOrfeo said:

Look, the process I am describing has very obvious value. It is what makes a debate informative and useful, and keeps it from degenerating into a meaningless series of unsupported and therefore pointless counter-assertions. If you assert X and I simply contradict you, well, what is the point of that? Contradiction is not disproof. But if I demand a cite and you provide one, then I am informed, and anyone else following the debate is informed, of the content of your cite (regardless of whether it actually supports your assertion). If I demand a cite and you reply with a good logical argument as to why none is necessary, we all are informed of the content of your argument. If I demand a cite and you simply fail to provide one, we all are informed that you're just talking out your ass. In any event, we all learn something. Is that not far preferable to an endless string of no-you're-the-poopyheads?

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OldJourno said:

Well, at least there's more loot to steal before it all goes down the toilet.
Venezuela has massive oil reserves, so that delayed putting that country down the shitter for a few years. But that's what happens to all of them eventually.

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It ain't happening in Scandinavia -- nor in Britain, France or Germany, which are social democracies by American standards -- and it won't happen in your lifetime. As for the Southern Euro countries, their troubles are rooted in the EU's neoliberal austerity policies, not social democracy.

hashtag46 said:

I have no issue with such views. I only have an issue with those
- who either generalise (ie most europeans or all those who elected Trump aka half of the US, or all of those who oppose illegal immigragion -- are racists)

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Anti-immigrationists are not all racists -- there are some good non-racist economic arguments for restricting immigration, and I've seen them made by writers who are emphatically not racist, such as Michael Lind -- but, you know as well as I do, immigration would not be a hot issue in America if the immigration pressure were coming from Canada instead of Mexico, all other things being equal including the desperate poverty of the immigrants. And it ain't a language problem, either, it's an Other problem. Latinos are the Other, and Canucks, whether Anglophone or Francophone, are not.

As for those who voted for Trump -- probably not all racists, but that is clearly the safest default assumption, isn't it? Anyone who votes for a candidate who dog-whistles hate that loudly and shamelessly is at best indifferent to racism as a problem.

KingOrfeo said:

It ain't happening in Scandinavia -- nor in Britain, France or Germany, which are social democracies by American standards -- and it won't happen in your lifetime. As for the Southern Euro countries, their troubles are rooted in the EU's neoliberal austerity policies, not social democracy.

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What austerity policies are you speaking of?

KingOrfeo said:

So, you're just talking out your ass.

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I think he's talking out of Alex Jones' ass.

OldJourno said:

What austerity policies are you speaking of?

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These and these.

KingOrfeo said:

Anti-immigrationists are not all racists -- there are some good non-racist economic arguments for restricting immigration, and I've seen them made by writers who are emphatically not racist, such as Michael Lind -- but, you know as well as I do, immigration would not be a hot issue in America if the immigration pressure were coming from Canada instead of Mexico, all other things being equal including the desperate poverty of the immigrants. And it ain't a language problem, either, it's an Other problem. Latinos are the Other, and Canucks, whether Anglophone or Francophone, are not.

As for those who voted for Trump -- probably not all racists, but that is clearly the safest default assumption, isn't it? Anyone who votes for a candidate who dog-whistles hate that loudly and shamelessly is at best indifferent to racism as a problem.

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Mine is the perspective of a foreigner, and I assumed that if some of us think this way, americans probably do so too (I might be mistaken tho, because I don't live in the US).
And other GB foreign posters (one russiam, one muslim) shared the following views too:


A lot of foreigners ( Middle East included, despite Trump's racist rhetoric and Obama's hipochritical kumbaia rhetoric) disliked Obama and rooted for Trump:

Because they perceived Obama to have perpetuated the warmongering and destruction and blood shed in the Middle East, as well as the attempts to destabilize Europe. And that he was more loyal to international corporations than to his own citizens.
They were led to believe that Trump wanted to stop the US warmongering, amd they hoped that he would be less corporatist than Obama.


Although some of his measures after he was elected were disappointing. I see no attempts to limit the power of corporations.
I think that in the end, Obama and Trump might be just two faces of the same corporatist coin and that elections are just for show, for duping people into believing that they are free agents and able yo choose.

I get why many people are upset and scared that Trump was elected.

But what I don't get is some liberals' villification and even vitriol against most of those who voted for Trump.

A % of them certainly are racists, but I don't believe that the majority are.
If anything, they were just misguided or duped into believing that Trump will put an end to America's obvious economic decline.
I grew up looking up to americans, and I refuse to believe that half of the nation is made of racists.

hashtag46 said:

I get why many people are upset and scared that Trump was elected.

But what I don't get is some liberals' villification and even vitriol against most of those who voted for Trump.

A % of them certainly are racists, but I don't believe that the majority are.
If anything, they were just misguided or duped into believing that Trump will put an end to America's obvious economic decline.
I grew up looking up to americans, and I refuse to believe that half of the nation is made of racists.

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Looks like somebody should have watched more bollywood than Hollywood. I hear if you stomp your feet while you say such dumb things, that they may come true. Good luck, sir.