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Old 02-16-2019, 03:15 PM   #1451
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrettyLilPussy19 View Post
I think I'll just steer clear of the -opaths either way. But thanks for the clarification.
That's just a Latin suffix that indicates a pathology. Technically "pathology" spans all health diseases or irregular symptomologies but referring to a person as a/an *prefix*-opath tends to be a mental health thing. In theory there should be "-opath" terminologies for autists and people suffering from depression or ADD, but the labeling of those symptomologies is recent enough that they were not named in Latin.

Which is to say "YOU'RE AN -OPATH SO THERE" *sticks tongue out*
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Old 02-16-2019, 03:18 PM   #1452
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Just making a joke!

<scampers off to figure out which -opath she is>
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Old 02-16-2019, 03:36 PM   #1453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KamaKamaSutra View Post
Empathy doesn't always mean you have an emotional understanding of what someone feels, it also doesn't mean you feel the same as they do, just that you can understand what they are feeling.

I think all sadist are empathetic, I think if you enjoy the feeling your have to understand it which would imply empathy. Even psychopaths and sociopaths have empathy even if it is just to derive pleasure from their destructive habits. But empathy has multiple meanings and is a very broad term.

But I AM NOT A SHRINK lol
Good save lol.

You were right about empathy not being an emotional understanding; it's not emotional mind reading. Empathy is a reflexive or deliberate imagining what you'd feel like in their situation. Any 'understanding' is reached that way, and it's really not a broad term, just commonly misunderstood.

Psychopaths can sometimes do it if asked to try, but emotions are so warped or alien to them that their imagined version is very inaccurate. Very often trying to imagine themselves as anyone else (in any situation) makes them inappropriately happy, sad or angry (psychopaths very often redirect sadness into mania or anger; sadness almost doesn't exist for them). Key though; shallow emotional response. The emotional response of a psychopath tends to be so flatlined that they can pass lie detectors.

Sociopaths just can't imagine it at all, but are sometimes very good at hiding that via rote memorization and guess work.

The third pillar we're skipping over is schizophrenia. I've known my share of schizophrenics, but I don't know as much about that condition. They are capable of empathy, typically much more so than psychopaths, arguably more acutely than neurotypicals even, but their world view is very broken, so they tend to have a very inaccurate or exaggerated perception of others feelings, and are quickly conditioned not to try or even to actively avoid imagining what other people feel like; it's hard enough just being them.

Both psychopathy and sociopathy are commonly confused with schizophrenia because what better example of a crazy person that the schizophrenic outlier who screams at nothing and readily concocts wild conspiracy theories with absolute conviction and little evidence.
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Old 02-16-2019, 04:02 PM   #1454
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This has been a pleasant distraction from my headache this morning but perhaps I should... you know.... go do something about that headache.

Silly me.
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Old 02-16-2019, 04:09 PM   #1455
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Originally Posted by Stag of Oberon View Post
That's just a Latin suffix that indicates a pathology. Technically "pathology" spans all health diseases or irregular symptomologies but referring to a person as a/an *prefix*-opath tends to be a mental health thing. In theory there should be "-opath" terminologies for autists and people suffering from depression or ADD, but the labeling of those symptomologies is recent enough that they were not named in Latin.

Which is to say "YOU'RE AN -OPATH SO THERE" *sticks tongue out*
Greek, not Latin. As in πάθει μάθος - learning from pain.

*picks up riding crop and strokes it thoughtfully*
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Old 02-16-2019, 04:15 PM   #1456
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Old 02-16-2019, 05:05 PM   #1457
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Originally Posted by Mei5ter View Post
Greek, not Latin. As in πάθει μάθος - learning from pain.

*picks up riding crop and strokes it thoughtfully*
I just knew that medical terminology leaned heavily on Latin.
For some reason Google translate makes πάθει μάθος into "he is drunk" but if hangovers aren't "learning from pain" what is?

It's well outside my area of study, but I understood ancient Greek to be the parent language of Latin? Wouldn't that make for a lot of overlap? Or am I mistaken?

From what I can tell on other various translation tools, pathiel is a Greek prefix, where -pathy is a Latin suffix, but on www.learnthat.org page comparing the two languages directly; it doesn't list either language as the origin for -path. (And stands out on their list as one of the only suffixes they list but don't attributes to one language or the other)
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Old 02-16-2019, 05:17 PM   #1458
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Originally Posted by PrettyLilPussy19 View Post
#31

Continuing Education & Mentors

We've talked about the past but what's the newest thing you've tried or learned about?
Have you ever been the one to teach someone something brand new to them?
Re-tracking this train.

I meant the question to be aimed at kink but I love knowing all the random stuff you guys are learning! Non-kink I've been digging back into poetry and trying read more and get more inspired. And I teach a drama class to teenagers so I'm always mentoring but - kink wise -

New stuff - hair play. For a host of personal reasons, I find this crazy hot and submissive.
Teaching or explaining - emotional sadism/masochism. I'm no expert and can't really go into things that don't have personal bearing but it's been nice talking it out.
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Old 02-16-2019, 05:30 PM   #1459
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Re-tracking this train.
Sorry.

Denial/ abstinence.

"I would rather starve by my own agency then resent you for not feeding me enough".
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Old 02-16-2019, 05:32 PM   #1460
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Originally Posted by Stag of Oberon View Post
Sorry.

Denial/ abstinence.

"I would rather starve by my own agency then resent you for not feeding me enough".
How's your headache? Mine's getting worse.
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Old 02-16-2019, 05:36 PM   #1461
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Originally Posted by PrettyLilPussy19 View Post
How's your headache? Mine's getting worse.
Food. Carbs specifically (I don't eat many)

Salt water followed by Gatorade.

It has budged a little.

Next step is a hot pack on my throat, which is more of a migraine measure than a low sodium one, but if the saltwater/Gatorade combo ain't working, it's probably not a sodium/electrolyte thing.

Have I contributed to your headache?

I'd apologize but I'm learning to ask first if it's appropriate/ necessary, particularly if my judgment is impaired by a headache this time of year.
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Old 02-16-2019, 10:30 PM   #1462
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Originally Posted by Stag of Oberon View Post
Trying to bait me?
Nope. Genuine question, asked out of curiosity.

Quote:
Yeah sadly it doesn't work that way and it's not that time of year. I would say I never know what I'm going to research next fall but come on... The vendiagram is not that hard to imagine.
...not really, though?

"Empathetic" is an ambiguous word. Sometimes it's used to mean somebody who cares about the mental state of others ("if you're sad, I'm sad"); sometimes it's used to mean somebody who can easily perceive or understand the mental state of others. Depending on which of those definitions is in effect, I may or may not be empathetic.

"Sadist" is just as ambiguous. It can cover anything from consensual sadism to torturers.

And English is full of terms of art that don't just mean the sum of their component words. "White pride" is not simply a white person who's proud about something, "white rhinos" and "black rhinos" are both grey to brown, and so on. From googling, it looked to me as if "empathetic sadist" was a term of art that had some meaning more specific than "any possible usage of 'empathetic' x any possible usage of 'sadist'", but I couldn't find a good source for what that is. Hence my question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stag of Oberon View Post
Damnit I'm gonna have to get on my computer and post links to Wikipedia.....

Oh wtf... Well do this one off the top of my head. I'm sure bramblethorn will correct me.

You're confusing sociopath with psychopath. A psychopath could be argued to have no conscience, but conscience isn't actually a metric used in psychology. Instead you'll read things like "highly self centered with a very low emotional response," and "difficulty connecting emotionally, at all or with other humans" (psychopaths sometimes connect emotionally with objects, places, or pets)

A sociopath is someone incapable of empathy.
Yeah, as you predicted, I'm going to quibble here.

I'm not a psychiatrist, but my understanding is that psychiatry has never been able to settle on a clear distinction between "psychopath" and "sociopath", and has often used the two words interchangeably, with the distinction being more about what aspect of the behaviour is considered more important or what one believes the cause to be. "Psycho-" puts the emphasis on abnormality in the person's mind; "socio-" puts the emphasis on how they interact with others.

As I understand it, neither "psychopathy" or "sociopathy" is a recognised psychiatric diagnosis as of DSM-V; both would be subsets of antisocial personality disorder. (Intro to that article: "The terms psychopathy or sociopathy are also used, in some contexts synonymously, in others, sociopath is differentiated from a psychopath, in that a sociopathy is rooted in environmental causes, while psychopathy is genetically based.")

The water is considerably muddied by pop culture's fondness for fictional "psychopaths" and "sociopaths" who generally have more to do with the writer's idea of what seems cool than with any solid grounding in RL psychiatry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stag of Oberon View Post
Key though; shallow emotional response. The emotional response of a psychopath tends to be so flatlined that they can pass lie detectors.
This isn't too remarkable, though. Polygraphs as "lie detectors" are woefully inaccurate, basically junk science. At best, what they measure is emotional arousal, which can be caused by many different factors, and for that reason they're generally not taken seriously by courts. Their main value is probably as a bluff against people who believe the polygraph will catch them lying.
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Old 02-17-2019, 12:39 AM   #1463
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Once again, bramblethorn, your engaging quibble comes *after* someone has already asked me to stop.

Rather than being bitter I'll just try to be concise;

I studied this formally. This was the subject of a report. 20+ years ago, the disctinction between the two had been recently drawn; 'psychopath' was defunct, but had already entered into pop-cultural lexicon. I figured might as well use the term everyone knows that means the same thing... I've even seen it used more in medical studies in recent years. Official term for the same thing is anti-social disorder, as you mentioned, but sociopathy was still a separate pathology. That would have been DSM 4 circa 1994. I admit I have not kept up, and wouldn't be surprised if they cut it out.

Did you know ADD is no longer in the DSM either? Neither is high functioning autism. They're both just ADHD now; lumped together for political & financial reasons. The DSM 5 cut a lot of diagnosis out, not because they were bad science, but to stategically increase funding for various research by lumping them together so that they could say if affected more people. ADD studies are now "better funded" because they're lumped in with ADHD... or so the reasoning went.

It's a bitter pill after a lifetime of correcting people that I'm not ADHD, there ARE other attention disorders, I'm not hyper... Nope. Now all attention disorders are ADHD variants.

In the years since the reasoning has not proven out; maybe my brothers issues are better understood now, but as far as I can tell my own learning disability and people like me, if there are any, have simply been shat upon.

Obviously I'm not a fan of the DSM 5, I agree with the critics who say that such blatant political tinkering sabotages the documents neutrality and gives reason to question it's validity as an industry standard; questions the field of psychiatry can ill afford.

My reference to lie detectors had nothing to do with their accuracy; they work by reading emotional tells. The most recent study I read about anti social disorder was specifically comparing polygraph results to EKG readings in individuals with anti-social disorder (psychopaths), and it turned out that the subjects were not so devoid of emotional response as previously thought, but in many cases the regions activated were paradoxical while polygraph results were non-existent.

DSM hasn't been updated since then and would not reflect this.
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Old 02-17-2019, 04:34 PM   #1464
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(Acknowledging that Stag wishes to end this discussion. There are a couple of things here which I think are errors of fact, and I want to address them - one in particular is personally important to me - so I'll be making this one reply, but beyond that, I don't propose to continue it further in this thread. If anybody does want to talk further about this stuff, poke me in the Mental Health thread.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stag of Oberon View Post
I studied this formally. This was the subject of a report. 20+ years ago, the disctinction between the two had been recently drawn; 'psychopath' was defunct, but had already entered into pop-cultural lexicon. I figured might as well use the term everyone knows that means the same thing... I've even seen it used more in medical studies in recent years. Official term for the same thing is anti-social disorder, as you mentioned, but sociopathy was still a separate pathology. That would have been DSM 4 circa 1994. I admit I have not kept up, and wouldn't be surprised if they cut it out.
I don't have a full version of DSM-IV handy, but on looking through what sources I do have, I can't find a reference to "sociopathy" per se being a specific condition in DSM-IV. Looking at e.g. this list of DSM-IV codes which includes things like "antisocial personality disorder" but not sociopathy, or this summary of changes between DSM-IV and DSM-5.

Quote:
Did you know ADD is no longer in the DSM either? Neither is high functioning autism. They're both just ADHD now; lumped together for political & financial reasons.
This is is not correct. "High-functioning autism" is not under ADHD (DSM-5 code 314); it's DSM-5 299.00 Autism Spectrum Disorder along with everything else autistic.

What you may be thinking of is that DSM-IV made a distinction between "Autistic Disorder" (299.00) and "Asperger's Disorder" (299.80, roughly synonymous with "high-functioning autism"), and DSM-5 merged us back into the one category (Autism Spectrum Disorder), eliminated Asperger's back into what's now Autism Spectrum Disorder. This was somewhat controversial among autistic people; personally I've come around to thinking it was the right call, but anybody who wants my views on that should ask over in the MH thread.

ETA: just to clarify that I acknowledge MANY issues with DSM, I'm citing it as an indicator of how psychiatry views certain issues, not necessarily endorsing those positions.

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Old 02-18-2019, 02:54 PM   #1465
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Originally Posted by PrettyLilPussy19 View Post
#31

Continuing Education & Mentors

We've talked about the past but what's the newest thing you've tried or learned about?
Have you ever been the one to teach someone something brand new to them?
Back on track.

The newest thing Iím learning is how to balance my budget, post divorce. Iím learning as I go.
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Old 02-18-2019, 03:23 PM   #1466
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Originally Posted by PrettyLilPussy19 View Post
#31

Continuing Education & Mentors

We've talked about the past but what's the newest thing you've tried or learned about?
Have you ever been the one to teach someone something brand new to them?
Nothing new on the kink side so I'll have to talk about non-kink stuff:

Me: still learning German via Duolingo, learning Python programming in an online course, and some machine-learning stuff on the job.

Teaching others: I write training courses for work now and then. It's taxing but I really enjoy it. Sometimes it's technical stuff, last year it was LGBTI+ awareness, probably going to do a mathematically-themed one this year. That moment when somebody says "I understand now!" is one of my favourite feelings.

(Sorry this is so vague, there's only so much I can share here!)
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Old 02-18-2019, 05:25 PM   #1467
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Originally Posted by PrettyLilPussy19 View Post
#31

Continuing Education & Mentors

We've talked about the past but what's the newest thing you've tried or learned about?
Have you ever been the one to teach someone something brand new to them?
I learned a bit about fisting from someone who's done it (male).
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Old 02-22-2019, 01:23 PM   #1468
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Originally Posted by PrettyLilPussy19 View Post
#31

Continuing Education & Mentors

We've talked about the past but what's the newest thing you've tried or learned about?
Have you ever been the one to teach someone something brand new to them?
The newest thing I've tried/learned about is electro stim. I've wanted to try it, and was able to. I'm not sure I liked it as much as I thought I would, but I didn't dislike it and I plan on experimenting with it more. It is a lot of control to give someone - things like spanking and whipping are a different type of control to me. But there's actually a class on electro stim that we plan on taking if it's offered again. The colors of the electricity are pretty amazing.

I don't think I've taught anyone anything in a specific way. I'm willing to try almost anything if someone I'm with asks, or wants to explore more. As long as we both agree it may not be our individual thing once we try it, it's worth trying almost anything.

I've turned down any sort of serious anal plugging and a few vaginal things I don't want to find out require me to do more kegels than I do. Not my bag. But hopefully he's explored that elsewhere.
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Old 02-22-2019, 01:52 PM   #1469
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I need submissions!!
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Old 02-22-2019, 01:53 PM   #1470
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I need submission!! *cracks the whip*
FYP YW!!!



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Old 02-22-2019, 01:56 PM   #1471
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#32

#32 (suggested)

Acceptance

Was it hard for you to accept your kink or a particular one of your kinks? Did you feel ambivalent, embarrassed, awkward or ashamed of it? How were you able to embrace this as a positive part of yourself?
Are/were there kinks of your partners (past or present) that you had a hard time embracing? Were you able to accept or was it a deal breaker?
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Old 02-22-2019, 01:57 PM   #1472
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Originally Posted by Stag of Oberon View Post

It's well outside my area of study, but I understood ancient Greek to be the parent language of Latin? Wouldn't that make for a lot of overlap? Or am I mistaken?
Greek isn't Latin's parent language, but it's possible that they shared a common ancestor language many centuries before the ancient era. Latin did borrow heavily from the Greek, though. Centuries of trade and the proximity of the two cultures meant there was a ton of crossover and cognates between the two languages. Also, throughout much of the Roman Empire, knowing Greek was a sign that you were educated. In parts of the Empire especially in the east, Greek was the lingua franca, not Latin.
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Old 02-22-2019, 01:57 PM   #1473
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FYP YW!!!

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Lol, the inner Domme shows herself at last.
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Old 02-22-2019, 02:09 PM   #1474
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I need submissions!!
How domly of you.
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Old 02-22-2019, 02:13 PM   #1475
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrettyLilPussy19 View Post
#32 (suggested)

Acceptance

Was it hard for you to accept your kink or a particular one of your kinks? Did you feel ambivalent, embarrassed, awkward or ashamed of it? How were you able to embrace this as a positive part of yourself?
Are/were there kinks of your partners (past or present) that you had a hard time embracing? Were you able to accept or was it a deal breaker?
I have never been embarrassed or ashamed of any sexual proclivity, but that is, I think, largely because I don't NEED to do those things in order to feel sexually fulfilled. And a full time kink-centric relationship would actually be exhausting for me, thus I don't consider myself involved in any lifestyle, as it were.

However, there are kinks that I personally find disgusting. I've learned about partner(s) being into them, and even having a basically full time relationship centered around it. It's not a deal breaker, depending on what it actually is, but it has changed the way I view them. It's also different when a partner knows I think something is gross, and then lies about it being something they partake in (if that makes sense). I am not getting into specifics because I don't want to offend anyone since YKIMK.

And then there are deal breakers that aren't kink-related to me, but still bother me and end relationships. Because I'm a bitch.
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