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Truth.

Blue said:
So specifically how many dead kids is it going to take before you say guns should be regulated a bit more?
Can you actually put a number on it or is it more of a gradient?
Click to expand...

How many will it take before you realize cell phones kill 3 times more kids than guns???

So take your tear jerk, stupid ass questions and shove 'em. You are just another case of Liberals who don't even know what a fact is. But you'll learn about them in high school when you get there.

You say you want open honest discourse? And then you come up with shit like this? CLUEPON FOR YOU: Liberals do NOT want open honest discourse based on facts. They want to ban guns. Period. They cannot see past that far enough to have ANY kind of of serious debate. That's why fewer and fewer people are taking you seriously.

Grow up and at least TRY to act like an adult.
 
My I said:
How many will it take before you realize cell phones kill 3 times more kids than guns???

So take your tear jerk, stupid ass questions and shove 'em. You are just another case of Liberals who don't even know what a fact is. But you'll learn about them in high school when you get there.

You say you want open honest discourse? And then you come up with shit like this? CLUEPON FOR YOU: Liberals do NOT want open honest discourse based on facts. They want to ban guns. Period. They cannot see past that far enough to have ANY kind of of serious debate. That's why fewer and fewer people are taking you seriously.

Grow up and at least TRY to act like an adult.
Click to expand...
Why do you feel that people need guns so much when Japan and the UK, which have the tightest gun regulation in the world, get along just fine without them? And we have 0 mass shootings and murder rates many times lower than yours.
 
Blue said:
Why do you feel that people need guns so much when Japan and the UK, which have the tightest gun regulation in the world, get along just fine without them? And we have 0 mass shootings and murder rates many times lower than yours.
Click to expand...

No, you don't have mass shootings. But your murder rates are not that much less than ours. the difference is people aren't murdered with guns there. That's prob'ly where you got confused.

You have people blowing up airports and train stations. You have people driving trucks into crowds London bridge, then when the truck won't go any farther they get out and stab and slash people. You have Irish terrorist that blow up businesses, Pubs and Gov't buildings.

You see, you gun violence went down when you banned guns, didn't disappear entirely but it went down. But your overall violent crime rate is just as high as it ever was. (BTW: Overall violent crime rates in the UK are higher than the US per 100k residents) That's because while gun violence went down, attacks with knives and clubs went UP. Enough to make up for the lower gun crime. It went up so much that the UK banned fixed bade knives, folding knives with locking blades and blades over 3 inches in length. So the criminals just bought kitchen knives instead. So they banned the sale of kitchen knives to anyone under 21 and required ID to purchase them at all. And while you can still order kitchen knives online, you cannot have them delivered to your home address. You have to pick them up in person with proper ID.

Now there is legislation in Parliment to ban all knives with a sharp points. And when that passes and people are still getting slashed and clubbed by criminals they'll make ANY sort of knife illegal. And when that doesn't work, they'll ban something else.

That's because you don't want to deal with the REAL PROBLEM. Punish the CRIMINALS, not the innocents.

You don't understand why we want to keep our guns. Ok. That's obvious enough. But that is your problem. You don't understand. Worse yet, you don't WANT to understand. You don't give a fuck what anyone else wants. You just want what YOU want and FUCK everyone else.

You aren't even from this country. This issue is is none of your business. Which makes you totally irrelevant.

But to give you a little better understanding (if you have the have the fortitude to read this far) let me give you a little history lesson:

Your Firearms act of 1920 banned all but single shot rifles and shotguns. 20 yrs later Hitler is threatening to invade the UK and on the verge of doing just exactly that. The British people cried out, "How will we defend ourselves and our families and our homes from German invaders when we have no guns to fight with?"

The UK Gov'ts response? "Our troops will protect you... all the way from France." did they give out weapons for the people to defend themselves with? FUCK NO.

It was AMERICAN GUN OWNERS, with the help of the NATIONAL RIFLE ASSOCIATION who donated their own personal firearms, over 2 million rifles and pistols, shipped them to GB and distributed them among the citizens so the could resist the German invasion.

And when the war was over, the UK gov't collected them all and sent them back to their rightful owners, right? WRONG! None of those rifles returned to the US. They confiscated them and destroyed them. And the American gun owners who gave their own property to help protect you didn't even get a fucking "Thank You".

Now, what do you think I care about your opinions on gun control? Or your ignorant insinuations that I "don't care about the children"? Or ANYTHING you have to say for that matter?
 
My I said:
No, you don't have mass shootings. But your murder rates are not that much less than ours. the difference is people aren't murdered with guns there. That's prob'ly where you got confused.

You have people blowing up airports and train stations. You have people driving trucks into crowds London bridge, then when the truck won't go any farther they get out and stab and slash people. You have Irish terrorist that blow up businesses, Pubs and Gov't buildings.

You see, you gun violence went down when you banned guns, didn't disappear entirely but it went down. But your overall violent crime rate is just as high as it ever was. (BTW: Overall violent crime rates in the UK are higher than the US per 100k residents) That's because while gun violence went down, attacks with knives and clubs went UP. Enough to make up for the lower gun crime. It went up so much that the UK banned fixed bade knives, folding knives with locking blades and blades over 3 inches in length. So the criminals just bought kitchen knives instead. So they banned the sale of kitchen knives to anyone under 21 and required ID to purchase them at all. And while you can still order kitchen knives online, you cannot have them delivered to your home address. You have to pick them up in person with proper ID.

Now there is legislation in Parliment to ban all knives with a sharp points. And when that passes and people are still getting slashed and clubbed by criminals they'll make ANY sort of knife illegal. And when that doesn't work, they'll ban something else.

That's because you don't want to deal with the REAL PROBLEM. Punish the CRIMINALS, not the innocents.

You don't understand why we want to keep our guns. Ok. That's obvious enough. But that is your problem. You don't understand. Worse yet, you don't WANT to understand. You don't give a fuck what anyone else wants. You just want what YOU want and FUCK everyone else.

You aren't even from this country. This issue is is none of your business. Which makes you totally irrelevant.

But to give you a little better understanding (if you have the have the fortitude to read this far) let me give you a little history lesson:

Your Firearms act of 1920 banned all but single shot rifles and shotguns. 20 yrs later Hitler is threatening to invade the UK and on the verge of doing just exactly that. The British people cried out, "How will we defend ourselves and our families and our homes from German invaders when we have no guns to fight with?"

The UK Gov'ts response? "Our troops will protect you... all the way from France." did they give out weapons for the people to defend themselves with? FUCK NO.

It was AMERICAN GUN OWNERS, with the help of the NATIONAL RIFLE ASSOCIATION who donated their own personal firearms, over 2 million rifles and pistols, shipped them to GB and distributed them among the citizens so the could resist the German invasion.

And when the war was over, the UK gov't collected them all and sent them back to their rightful owners, right? WRONG! None of those rifles returned to the US. They confiscated them and destroyed them. And the American gun owners who gave their own property to help protect you didn't even get a fucking "Thank You".

Now, what do you think I care about your opinions on gun control? Or your ignorant insinuations that I "don't care about the children"? Or ANYTHING you have to say for that matter?
Click to expand...

Very well said. But they will still not ever understand.
 
Blue said:
More guns =/= more safety.
Click to expand...

Really? You should tell all the VIP's from your government and mine then because they surround themselves with guns....for safety/security.

Blue said:
So specifically how many dead kids is it going to take before you say guns should be regulated a bit more?
Can you actually put a number on it or is it more of a gradient?
Click to expand...

The dead kids are really irrelevant to the issue.

Define "regulated a bit more" and we have THOUSANDS of regulations.

What's a few more going to do?

Blue said:
Why do you feel that people need guns
Click to expand...

Same reason the elites do.....security.

Blue said:
so much when Japan and the UK, which have the tightest gun regulation in the world, get along just fine without them? And we have 0 mass shootings and murder rates many times lower than yours.
Click to expand...

You're also a couple of pissant islands with ultra submissive god state worshiping populations/cultures.

Not really an apples to apples comparison.
 
BotanyBoy said:
Not that the USA gives a fuck about what the British think of American gun ownership.

:cool:
Click to expand...

BotanyBoy is not referring to the entire USA-- he's talking about the Deplorables' Amerika. They don't give a fuck about anything that does not affect them personally. Amerika First!

And, his little emoji at the end of his message shows how much of a bad-ass he thinks he is.
 
coati said:
BotanyBoy is not referring to the entire USA
Click to expand...

You're right, there are a lot of anti- civil rights folks out there who want so desperately to be part of and live under the oppression of the British empire once again. They desperately desire a totalitarian god state to wipe their ass for them because they can't manage without.

Shit some of them want to go straight up Soviet America.

These people failed history class and do not have any concept of what the USA is or why it exists in the first place.

coati said:
he's talking about the Deplorables' Amerika.
Click to expand...

For all of those out there not totally into totalitarian collectivism like Comrade Coati here, that's the standard US of A.

coati said:
They don't give a fuck about anything that does not affect them personally.
Click to expand...

Or they just prioritize individual liberty and civil rights over state oppression.

A strong tradition in the US of A.

4aaf92db70403840ebf25d1a3aac9320.jpg
 
Last edited:
My I said:
No, you don't have mass shootings. But your murder rates are not that much less than ours. the difference is people aren't murdered with guns there. That's prob'ly where you got confused.
Click to expand...

You've been drinking the kool-aide again.

It's annoying to see people comparing American FIREARM homicides with FIREARM homicides elsewhere in the world, but when you make the more sensible comparison of homicides of all types America still sucks:

Homicide rate per 100,000 population

USA: 4.9
Canada: 1.7
France: 1.6
Germany: 0.8
United Kingdom: 0.9
Italy: 0.8
China: 0.7
Korea: 0.7
Japan: 0.3

https://www.indexmundi.com/facts/indicators/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5/rankings

There's not a First World country anywhere that has homicide rates anywhere near ours.

But thanks for playing!
 
RubenR said:
That isn't about more guns, that is about guns in the hands of a selected group of well screened, well trained people, proven to be able, capable to safely handle their guns, and only to use them in case of emergency. People that have all the right training and all the right papers to handle their guns. It is their job, and those people know what they are doing. It is called ‘security’.
Click to expand...
Yeah, you're never going to find enough Americans to do the job. You'll have to contract out to mercenaries or something.
 
My I said:
You are just another case of Liberals who don't even know what a fact is. But you'll learn about them in high school when you get there.
Click to expand...

People do not want to attend or send their kids to high schools in the absence of sufficient controls on gun violence.
 
RubenR said:
That isn't about more guns, that is about guns in the hands of a selected group of well screened, well trained people, proven to be able, capable to safely handle their guns, and only to use them in case of emergency. People that have all the right training and all the right papers to handle their guns. It is their job, and those people know what they are doing. It is called ‘security’.
Click to expand...

So....the government and only for elite pols and the very rich.

THEY need guns because it makes them safe....but not all us lowly poor people, we're not deserving of our own security right??

:rolleyes:
 
RubenR said:
That isn't about more guns, that is about guns in the hands of a selected group of well screened, well trained people, proven to be able, capable to safely handle their guns, and only to use them in case of emergency. People that have all the right training and all the right papers to handle their guns. It is their job, and those people know what they are doing. It is called ‘security’.
Click to expand...

So, you're saying ONLY the secret service has any training?

Hate to tell you this but more than half of all American gun owner use their guns for competition. Those competitions require a lot of training and a HELL of lot more practice than 90% of ALL law enforcement officers will ever see. Being a gun owner doesn't mean you're a homicidal maniac. But it also doesn't mean you're inept.

I have been shooting competitively for more than 40 years. And I compete with a couple cops at most of the matches I shoot. They are no better or worse shots than I am.

Cops have more driving training than you do. Does that mean you are dangerous with a car?

Well, there, yes, it does. Because, statistically speaking, YOU are 5 times more likely to kill someone with you car than I am with a gun. I think we should be more afraid of YOU.
 
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Oliver_Klozoff said:
You've been drinking the kool-aide again.

It's annoying to see people comparing American FIREARM homicides with FIREARM homicides elsewhere in the world, but when you make the more sensible comparison of homicides of all types America still sucks:

Homicide rate per 100,000 population

USA: 4.9
Canada: 1.7
France: 1.6
Germany: 0.8
United Kingdom: 0.9
Italy: 0.8
China: 0.7
Korea: 0.7
Japan: 0.3

https://www.indexmundi.com/facts/indicators/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5/rankings

There's not a First World country anywhere that has homicide rates anywhere near ours.

But thanks for playing!
Click to expand...
And, again, if you eliminate suicides, and gang and drug related homicides, our numbers would fall right in line with everyone else's. Suicide is a self solving problem with no real victim. Drugs are a bigger problem here because of unprotected borders and more coastline than most other countries. And drugs are what the gangs are all about. Get rid of gangs and drugs and our overall crime rates would drop dramatically.

Also important to note that while our homicide rates may be higher, violent crime rates for many of the countries you listed are higher than ours. It's just that people there get beat up but survive. They get raped but survive. They get stabbed but survive. Their business is robbed but no one died.
 
RubenR said:
Secret service? Don't act that childish. Where I live, the normal police is also trained, checked, and allowed to carry weapons.

I didn't only mention the training, but also the checks and control, which I find much more important, and which are clearly lacking in America. Having a gun doesn't have to mean that you are a hoicidal maniac, but it doesn't exclude it either, when almost anyone can get a gun.
Click to expand...

American gun owners go through the same level background check every time they purchase a firearm. And most DO have adequate training. In fact I would say most have marksmanship skills pretty close to the average L.E.O.

And not "just anyone" can get a gun. You clearly don't know the laws very well. Yes there are some who have slipped through the cracks like Nikolas Cruz. Cruz went under the radar thanks to Liberal policies in the school system and with the sheriff's dept. It does NOT happen a lot.


RubenR said:
I never felt the need to have a gun. I do feel safe where I live. Chances are low that I meet someone else carrying a gun who'd be a threat for me; so far I've never met one.

And I don't think I would feel safer if I could draw my own gun when being threatened by one; without me having a gun, they only need to threaten, but when I pull out a gun myself, one of us has to shoot. So far, I consider the little valuables I have on me of less value than anybody's life.
Click to expand...

Then you shouldn't carry a gun. One thing I always told my students was if they didn't think they could shoot someone to defend themselves, then they shouldn't be getting a gun. The reason for this is that drawing a gun on a criminal if you are not prepared and willing to use it can get you killed.

However, the mere presence of a firearm is proven to be a VERY effective deterant. I can also tell you that those who do carry have a more alert and confident demeanor that deters the average criminal.

All that said, it is highly unlikely that most people will find them in a situation where they need to defend themselves. But being prepared if and when it DOES happen is far better than the alternative.

Two hypothetical situations:

A police officer knocks on your door late at night to inform you that your daughter has been found raped, tortured, and stabbed to death.

A police officer knocks on your door late at night to inform you that your daughter was attacked by a sexual predator and she shot and killed him, but she is unharmed.

Which would you prefer? I'd take the second situation any day.
 
coati said:
BotanyBoy is not referring to the entire USA-- he's talking about the Deplorables' Amerika. They don't give a fuck about anything that does not affect them personally. Amerika First!

And, his little emoji at the end of his message shows how much of a bad-ass he thinks he is.
Click to expand...

Irony ^^^^^
 
Oliver_Klozoff said:
You've been drinking the kool-aide again.

It's annoying to see people comparing American FIREARM homicides with FIREARM homicides elsewhere in the world, but when you make the more sensible comparison of homicides of all types America still sucks:

Homicide rate per 100,000 population

USA: 4.9
Canada: 1.7
France: 1.6
Germany: 0.8
United Kingdom: 0.9
Italy: 0.8
China: 0.7
Korea: 0.7
Japan: 0.3

https://www.indexmundi.com/facts/indicators/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5/rankings

There's not a First World country anywhere that has homicide rates anywhere near ours.

But thanks for playing!
Click to expand...

At this point, you should probably move, far away, for your safety.
 
RubenR said:
I never felt the need to have a gun. I do feel safe where I live. Chances are low that I meet someone else carrying a gun who'd be a threat for me; so far I've never met one.
Click to expand...

Not everyone is so privileged.

RubenR said:
And I don't think I would feel safer if I could draw my own gun when being threatened by one; without me having a gun, they only need to threaten, but when I pull out a gun myself, one of us has to shoot.
So far, I consider the little valuables I have on me of less value than anybody's life.
Click to expand...

That's not a problem for everyone, not all of us value the lives of our robbers/rapist/murderers so much and are more than happy to let the air out of them.
 
My I said:
But to give you a little better understanding (if you have the have the fortitude to read this far) let me give you a little history lesson:

Your Firearms act of 1920 banned all but single shot rifles and shotguns. 20 yrs later Hitler is threatening to invade the UK and on the verge of doing just exactly that. The British people cried out, "How will we defend ourselves and our families and our homes from German invaders when we have no guns to fight with?"

The UK Gov'ts response? "Our troops will protect you... all the way from France." did they give out weapons for the people to defend themselves with? FUCK NO.
Click to expand...

Seems republicans don't know what the truth is either since this statement is a blatant lie. It was still legal to own semi-automatic weapons in 1987. which is when this happened

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungerford_massacre

There has always been tight regulation of firearms but up until 1987 if you met the licencing conditions you could own semi-automatic weapons. Handguns were not banned until 1996, when this happened.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_massacre

I love the way you guys just make up other country's history.

Another lie. The UK murder rate is not higher than the USA it is only about two-thirds that of the USA. Recent headlines have correctly told you that London's murder rate is higher than New York but that is one city, the rest of the country is much quieter.

Yesterday your prez came out with another lie when he said that Germany has a rising crime rate due to immigration. It doesn't last year recorded crime was down in Germany.

Why use facts when you can just make things up?
 
The UK Firearms Act of 1920 introduced the need for a firearms certificate. It was a response, in part, to Irish independence fighting.

It didn't ban even machine guns which were being sold by the UK government to private individuals. In 1920 a Vickers heavy machine gun could be bought for five pounds. It took until 1937 for machine and submachine guns to have a different licensing procedure but they still weren't banned until the 1960s.
 
RubenR said:
The feeling of being safe. Do you think an environment where you have to be aware of guns, and even be advised to carry one yourself, is a good starting point?
Click to expand...

Just normal here Sheila. Like carrying spare change or car keys. Not always on your mind but if you need to buy something, open your house or kill a miscreant, always prepared and trained.
 
The triangle area of North Carilina proudly proclaims itself to be one of the safest areas in America. Try telling that comforting thought to the lady that was just carjacked at gunpoint at the local Target parking lot this week. ‘Safe’ is a relative term, and you’re actually only ever as safe as you make yourself. You can’t substitute a cell phone for a handgun, they simply don’t have the firepower to truly make you ‘safe’
 
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