A piece of political erotica looking for feedback

Bramblethorn said:

Where are you getting the spaces-between-ellipses thing? I didn't see Chloe doing that in the story, and I don't see anybody here advocating for that, so it seems a bit like a straw man.

also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2lpIqVVSkE

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The latest Chicago Manual of Style.

I didn't mean to imply she did. That's how I use currently use them.

AwkwardMD said:

Opinions are wonderful. Opinions are welcome. Don't conflate opinion with fact, like you did earlier when you insisted that no one else knew what the purpose of Ellipses is.

Personally speaking, I knew where this conversation was going (and that Chloe's usage was correct), but I dragged it out with you as a learning lesson for everyone else that reads it. Lots of people read these threads. Many more than contribute to them.

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My initial post had nothing to do with usage or grammar, just about style and bad writing.

"Don't conflate opinion with fact, like you did earlier when you insisted that no one else knew what the purpose of Ellipses is."

I never asserted that -- incredible how you misrepresent that.

I'm not looking for an internet flame-war fight. Just thought I would throw my two cents in.

Dream_Operator said:

I don't think you understand the meaning and usage of ellipses, or what a sentence fragment is.

A lot of people seem to think an ellipse represents a dramatic pause -- it doesn't.

Didn't realize my comment would open up such a can of worms. Who knew.

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This is you saying that Chloe uses ellipses wrong. Not that you don't like her usage, or that you wish she used it differently. This is "You don't know how to grammar good."

Dream_Operator said:

The latest Chicago Manual of Style.

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Huh, really? My apologies; I hadn't encountered that before, and it looked weird enough that I thought you were doing it to make the sentence look weird.

Dream_Operator said:

The latest Chicago Manual of Style.

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The Chicago Manual of Style allows for multiple kinds of ellipses. In fact it originated the distinction between ". . . " and "..." that so frustrates the Brits. And anyone who's going the trouble of being a squanch about this should know that.

Okay, you know what? I take it back. Now I am angry**.



(** No, still not really. I can't believe you're about to fall for that.)

It's okay, really. I have the Chicago manual of style, I just don't use it too often coz it puts me to sleep. I'll go have a read. And I appreciate the discussion, all of it. Best way to learn. And exactly why I started this thread. Every little incremental improvement helps make one better.

I confess my ignorance, I've never studied English or writing, it's all self taught and reading on how to write so it's an ongoing learning curve.

............

I think @KindofHere illustrates the alternative possibilities really well. Whether or not they're all that meaningfully distinct is again a question of taste. I still prefer the ellipsoid version for its vividness, but my boner would not be sad to encounter the alternative.

AwkwardMD said:

This is you saying that Chloe uses ellipses wrong. Not that you don't like her usage, or that you wish she used it differently. This is "You don't know how to grammar good."

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I don't think you read my original post -- I said her usage of ellipses were annoying an distracting. They are.

Side note: I only commented on the political side previously because that seemed to be what Chloe was asking about. But since this seems to have ended up as a general story feedback discussion anyway...

For me, this one didn't work as well as some of your other stories. This is definitely a "can't please everybody" thing, because the choices that put me off were pretty much the exact same thing that other commenters liked about it. I appear to be in the minority on that, so it would probably be counterproductive to change your writing style on my account. But I'll give my two cents' worth anyway:

The story you've set out to tell is "Karnchana is a prostitute, and that's a sad life for her". As others have already said, you did that well. But sometimes less is more. I felt that you focussed so much on her victimhood that she didn't feel very well developed as a character. That made it harder for me to connect with her, which made it harder for me to feel much emotional connection to the story. Usually, even if I don't like your protagonists, they feel like three-dimensional characters.

Put another way: in criticising the way farang dehumanise Thai women by turning them into icons of sexual desirability, you end up dehumanising Karnchana in a different way by presenting her as a different kind of icon. It's a gentler, well-meant, definitely not "and that's just as bad!" kind of dehumanisation - but to me it still feels like a weakness.

(Apologies if that comes across as harsh; I've just come back from two days of meetings and the "speak socially with other humans" parts of my brain are feeling a little burned out. We had team building exercises and stuff and now I need to decompress for a few days. I'm not aiming to be rude here, just having difficulty expressing a nuanced idea, and I'm not very happy with the way I've worded it there.)

For me, the story would've worked better if she'd had some character development that wasn't directly tied into the "sad prostitute" theme. Not necessarily a major expansion - there's a lot to be said for writing a vignette and keeping it on focus. Just some little touches might have helped here.

tl;dr I have just walked into your donut store and said "these aren't the kind of bagels I like".

How does pointing out that you were only bored in one post chsnge that you were officious and snooty (and ultimately incorrect) in another?

Bramblethorn said:

Side note: I only commented on the political side previously because that seemed to be what Chloe was asking about. But since this seems to have ended up as a general story feedback discussion anyway...

For me, this one didn't work as well as some of your other stories. This is definitely a "can't please everybody" thing, because the choices that put me off were pretty much the exact same thing that other commenters liked about it. I appear to be in the minority on that, so it would probably be counterproductive to change your writing style on my account. But I'll give my two cents' worth...

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Thx, I don't usually ask here for feedback on my stories but this is one I'd really like to work on and improve and all those points help me look at it from outside my own perspective, which really helps me.