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I've changed my mind about the Electoral College

KimGordon67 said:
We have an actual democracy because we got sick of some geographical areas having more sway. Seems to work ok.
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Give it time. Our country has devolved into a de facto democracy and its decline is quite noticeable as a result. We are already well over the average life expectancy of a democracy. You're getting close to that expected life expectancy.

As soon as the mob (or majority if you prefer the that term of art) for the mob decides that they can vote themselves plunder from the treasury.. democracies are over. Always..not sometimes. Always.

Very few human beings decide to get up go out work hard and be productive if they can simply vote themselves a comfortable guaranteed income.

. . .oh, that's right. You don't believe in basic human nature. It's just simply a matter of properly indoctrinating your citizenry so that they know the way to behave.
 
Que said:
Give it time. Our country has devolved into a de facto democracy and its decline is quite noticeable as a result. We are already well over the average life expectancy of a democracy. You're getting close to that expected life expectancy.

As soon as the mob (or majority if you prefer the that term of art) for the mob decides that they can vote themselves plunder from the treasury.. democracies are over. Always..not sometimes. Always.

Very few human beings decide to get up go out work hard and be productive if they can simply vote themselves a comfortable guaranteed income.

. . .oh, that's right. You don't believe in basic human nature. It's just simply a matter of properly indoctrinating your citizenry so that they know the way to behave.
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Plato called. He wants his philosophy back.
 
von_Bismarck said:
Plato called. He wants his philosophy back.
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He does seem to be borrowing from Plato's Republic but the classics are classic for a reason are they not?

Myself, I prefer a beneficent dictator for the civilising effect they have on society. In such a regime I assume that I would be elevated to that role by universal acclaim.
 
Wordsworth said:
He does seem to be borrowing from Plato's Republic but the classics are classic for a reason are they not?

Myself, I prefer a beneficent dictator for the civilising effect they have on society. In such a regime I assume that I would be elevated to that role by universal acclaim.
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Indirectly. I was borrowing liberally from Tocqueville's "Democracy in America " who, in turn, borrowed from Plato's observations on human nature.
 
Wordsworth said:
He does seem to be borrowing from Plato's Republic but the classics are classic for a reason are they not?

Myself, I prefer a beneficent dictator for the civilising effect they have on society. In such a regime I assume that I would be elevated to that role by universal acclaim.
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This is possibly the most sensible political preference I've seen in some time ... I'm also looking for the moment when I run the world, because it just seems to obvious how awesome that would be.
 
Que said:
Give it time. Our country has devolved into a de facto democracy and its decline is quite noticeable as a result. We are already well over the average life expectancy of a democracy. You're getting close to that expected life expectancy.

As soon as the mob (or majority if you prefer the that term of art) for the mob decides that they can vote themselves plunder from the treasury.. democracies are over. Always..not sometimes. Always.

Very few human beings decide to get up go out work hard and be productive if they can simply vote themselves a comfortable guaranteed income.

. . .oh, that's right. You don't believe in basic human nature. It's just simply a matter of properly indoctrinating your citizenry so that they know the way to behave.
Click to expand...

People don't always do the sensible thing ... but at least in a democracy, it's the people who are responsible for that. The alternatives don't really seem to work out that much better for most of the population.

(And actually, in most contexts where there is effectively a minimum basic income that doesn't put you below the poverty line, surprisingly people do still choose to work.)
 
KeithD said:
If NY has twice as many people as OH and OH gets 20 EC votes, then, by simple logical of equality and fairness, NY should get at least 40 EC votes, not 31.
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I agree and that fully supports what I said.

But the EC wasn't designed for equality and fairness now was it???

KeithD said:
You destroyed your own argument. Thanks. :D
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No, my argument was that the EC was NOT designed via the simpleton logic of equality and fairness.

I didn't destroy my own argument, you just can't read.

Now pull your head out of your ass and try again....better luck next time tiger. :cool:
 
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KimGordon67 said:
No, it still just doesn't make sense - you're still making the 'geographical areas are the things that are represented' argument.
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If you don't understand how states are a lot more than just geographical areas I can see how it doesn't make sense.

In the US states are like mini countries....we share some shit like our military, our interstate highways etc. because union.

But we make most of our own rules most of which aren't controlled very tightly at the federal level. Each state is it's own legal entity with the authority of government and all the force that comes with it.


KimGordon67 said:
I don't know the relevant stats, but I'm picking that OH has way less than 2/3 the population of NY, so they're still massively over-represented as human beings, not square miles.
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It has just over half the population of NY...and yes as people they are over represented. The smaller the population the more over represented the people of that state get.

Square miles don't have ANYTHING to do with it, otherwise Alaska would have by far the most EC votes and it doesn't.
 
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