Humiliation in public

A loving and caring relationship is protective in nature. . .

It certainly doesn't sound protective, or loving, or caring. It doesn't matter if he is a submissive or the world's worst gambler. (or the world's worst man) This is just plain creepy.

Someone said it is disrespectful of women, I think it's disrespectful of everyone. Her, Him, the other passengers.

The other passengers, especially. Forcing others to be participants in your sex games is a form of rape. It doesn't matter if he or she just L O O O V V E E S the action resulting from humiliation, forcing others to be unwilling participants by being witnesses, on a cruise ship no less, is still a form of rape in my mind.

People who love each other protect each other from the more inappropriate aspects of their own sexuality.

People who love each other protect each other from the more inappropriate aspects of their own sexuality.

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That's an awesome quote!

I want to thank everyone for your thoughtful discourse on this subject.

PermanentMarks said:

It certainly doesn't sound protective, or loving, or caring. It doesn't matter if he is a submissive or the world's worst gambler. (or the world's worst man) This is just plain creepy.

Someone said it is disrespectful of women, I think it's disrespectful of everyone. Her, Him, the other passengers.

The other passengers, especially. Forcing others to be participants in your sex games is a form of rape. It doesn't matter if he or she just L O O O V V E E S the action resulting from humiliation, forcing others to be unwilling participants by being witnesses, on a cruise ship no less, is still a form of rape in my mind.

People who love each other protect each other from the more inappropriate aspects of their own sexuality.

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I agree. Nail polish or a pale pink speedo bottom I dont have a problem with, because it could easily pass under the radar or be accepted as normal. A bikini top designed for women? Thats something no man should have to wear.

WhipLuvr said:

I agree. Nail polish or a pale pink speedo bottom I dont have a problem with, because it could easily pass under the radar or be accepted as normal. A bikini top designed for women? Thats something no man should have to wear.

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Not in the middle of an unsympathetic public, anyway. NOt unless you've got this man's balls:

Stella_Omega said:

Not in the middle of an unsympathetic public, anyway. NOt unless you've got this man's balls:

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I dont think anyone else has balls like that man.

While I don't think a man in a thong bikini should be offensive to the general public, it is. It's a lot of exposed flesh. The nail polish is a non-issue to me, but a thong bikini -- in the case of either a man or a woman -- is a little too risqué for public.

Stella_Omega said:

Not in the middle of an unsympathetic public, anyway. NOt unless you've got this man's balls:

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That's fantastic. Made my night.

She has stated that the husband will enjoy this (I mean really, what submissive wouldn't?).

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Me for one. Please don't lump us into a "one size fits all" box.

I have humiliation and degradation as a very hard limit due to past emotional abuse and self esteem issues. I have worked hard, and so has Sir, to get me past that. He would never dream of putting me in a situation which would make me feel bad about myself, and certainly not in public where other people not involved in our kinks would see and be embarrassed.

oh... nevermind... I'm an idiot.

Thank you Stella!

Your Iggy Pop quote is stellar!

For what its worth, humiliation is a very personal thing. And in my humble opinion one of the most complex areas of play. Real experts on the human mind don't seem to understand all that makes us tick in their and playing with the mind is quite fun but a risky minefield. As with all things, communication is key.

And for me, I devise ways to have things appear quite public, yet not because I still respect that unwitting bystanders never consented to my scene even if they may enjoy it.

Too bad the domme in question isn't here... I'm sure she'd get some killer advice on other stuff to do that wouldn't potentially ruin their week.

KoPilot said:

Too bad the domme in question isn't here... I'm sure she'd get some killer advice on other stuff to do that wouldn't potentially ruin their week.

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True, that.

We are a brilliant resource!

Which reminds me, years ago there was a thread about "pony rides" anyone remember it?

KoPilot said:

Too bad the domme in question isn't here... I'm sure she'd get some killer advice on other stuff to do that wouldn't potentially ruin their week.

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and the week of a lot of other people as well.

No offense intended, but I think that all replies have missed the relevant issue so far.

I don't know if there is a breach of manners. But there is a breach of contract - a contract with the cruise company. That is the one party that nobody has mentioned yet.

When you go on a cruise, you sign a contract, and said contract usually has a clause that says somethng about not messing with the other cruisegoers. By wearing a women's bikini, hubby is breaking that clause and thus breaching his contract.

Thanks for the Iggy Pop quote. Genius.

I have to echo what another poster said: part of the humiliation is making the other cruise-goers a witness to this spectacle, and that's forcing them into a non-consensual sexual situation. Not cool. It's not even a "what about the children" issue. It's about what about the people who don't want to see that issue.

If you humiliating your partner causes discomfort or humiliation to a third party (or parties) who isn't in on the game, that ain't right.

I endorse kinkiness in the privace of one's home, but I think that it would be wrong for this couple to behave as planned because they are telling the other people on the cruise that their rights to self-expression supercede everyone else's to their own self-expression. To choose to live a vanilla sex life is just as much a right as it is not to do so. An ordinary heterosexual couple making out in public everyday during the cruise would raise just as many eyebrows as would this couple. In this context I see this exhibitionism as being a form of making out. If these people want to go on a kinky themed cruise then they should book their tickets on one of those, anything less is irresponsible behaviour.

I should say also, that I disagree with the comment that showed little sensitivity about forcing people to watch things that make them uncomfortable simply in order to educate them. Surely everyone has a right to choose what (s)he wants to educate him/herself and the children about, especially if it's sexual, and when we want to do it. If a situation emerges where this knowledge is found to be lacking then the personal consequences will be on our heads; and we will have to accept them then. Until then it would be sex outside the bounds of a consenting relationship and there is a four-letter word for that!

I wonder though, if this couldn't be a deliberate attempt to bate everyone so that they WILL be asked to leave; and so open the door that they can sue the cruise line and make some easy money in your very litigious society.

wow. i agree!

Stella_Omega said:

I really hate being confronted with other people's weird sex when I am not looking for it.

And I hate it when someone thinks it's funny to mock women by "humiliating" a man this way. As Iggy Pop said, "I'm not ashamed to dress like a woman because there's nothing shameful in being a woman" but these people are operating from that principle.


In any case, I'm betting that they will be asked to leave.

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humiliation, hot. Offending others who arent in on it, NOT

........................................

Has anyone mentioned that a woman's thong probably isn't going to have enough excess fabric to keep all the stuff in the front side in? I'm not a thong expert but I would say if the guy is at least average size he would fall out of it in one way or another. Then you have indecent exposure and security will have every right to tell him to leave or call the police.

Well...

Sam1991 said:

He will certainly get a lot of stares but I doubt anyone cares enough to be offended?

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Au contrare.

My circle of friends and certainly my family are still very vanilla and generally normal, and I know that most of them would be very insulted if a man walked on deck during a vacation and sat up with a thong on. This thong I imagine wouldn't cover all that much and might risk indecent exposure unless the man is clever and wraps a towel around his waist. But if it's a hot pink Speedo, he's got some defense for it.

I think he'll be asked to leave by someone who works there, to be frank. His PYL could instead make him dress in the frillier, more feminine swim suit attire. Shawls and glittering wraps come to mind. Unless they want to be "the odd but okay" couple and not "the holy shit, you're weird" couple.

Stella_Omega said:

I really hate being confronted with other people's weird sex when I am not looking for it.

And I hate it when someone thinks it's funny to mock women by "humiliating" a man this way. As Iggy Pop said, "I'm not ashamed to dress like a woman because there's nothing shameful in being a woman" but these people are operating from that principle.


In any case, I'm betting that they will be asked to leave.

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Hits the nail on the head really. It's about the lack of consent from the people around them.

There are way better ways to do this.

White dress shirt with a red bra underneath in the evening.

Pay for everything and make him ask her for money to pay for anything.

Make him carry her purse everywhere. Make sure it's a ridiculously girly purse.

Make him use a my little pony beach towel or cover up with a fringed hip wrap sarong thing, over his otherwise gender apropos bathing suit.

There are plenty of ways to do the gendered embarrassing thing without showing your hairy butt off and freaking people out. Ideologically I hate the feminization as humiliation thing. Kink wise, it turns me on in certain ways.

None of the above should be cause for panic among other people.It's not going to scar your precious kids with deviancy to see a guy using the wrong towel or something. But the bikini is just kind of obnoxious.

The key is we talk about con sensuality in BD/SM play, but in this case it is forgetting about the people witnessing said scene and maybe not wanting to. As others have pointed out, there are ways to humiliate someone without overtly getting in other people's faces...I am as kinky as they come and generally a vary tolerant person, but I also find people doing things like going into a restaurant where the sub is wearing a collar and the domme holding a leash is similarly bad (not talking a themed restaurant). Actually, something like that happened in the music world recently, the composed David Del Tredici on two different occasions was at performances of his work (one at Carnegie Hall!) and attended with a young male (I assume slave? ) who was wearing a collar and the composer holding the leash........

I have had people ask me what was different with that then those who object to, let's say a gay couple holding hands or a trans person who might not be passable, if it was bad for kink people to do that, why should that be allowed? The point I made was that if the trans person or the gay couple simply were being themselves on the street, that they simply were outrageous because of who they were, it is very different. The difference is they were on the street simply being themselves, not trying to be outrageous or force things on people, there is no issue of con sensuality because they aren't doing anything sexual or over the top. Now if you told me the gay couple was playing tonsil hockey and had hands all over, I would throw the penalty flag, if the trans person was dressed like a slut with a very short skirt that was showing, um, something more then should be shown, I would be upset, be like a women dressed like a hooker walking into a schoolyard or something like that, being deliberately outrageous. There are times and places to be outrageous, things like the Folsom Street fair in SF or the gay pride parades have their spectacle, but the thing is people know where they are happening, when they are happening and can stay away from it, no one is forcing them, but if you are on a cruise ship at the pool like that you would be telling people 'don't like it, leave'...

For the record, I absolutely despise humiliation play and in many ways am saddened that dressing like a woman or in a feminine way is considered degrading for men (and it is obvious what that says about the underlying view of women, since a woman dressing more masculine is not seen as degrading). When I read the stories on Lit in the BD/SM, lW and other sections that deal with humiliation it makes my blood run cold, to be honest. That said, I agree with others, plenty of ways to humiliate a person without really involving others, after all the humiliation is really in the sub's mind, it is the fear of being seen as strange or whatever that does it.

Netzach said:

~snip~ Ideologically I hate the feminization as humiliation thing. Kink wise, it turns me on in certain ways ~snip~.

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njlauren said:

~snip~ For the record, I absolutely despise humiliation play and in many ways am saddened that dressing like a woman or in a feminine way is considered degrading for men (and it is obvious what that says about the underlying view of women, since a woman dressing more masculine is not seen as degrading). When I read the stories on Lit in the BD/SM, lW and other sections that deal with humiliation it makes my blood run cold, to be honest.~snip~

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As a one time (arguably) passable transvestite, my goal was pretty and feminine which I view as very positive things about women. I had friends in the trans community who, though not blessed with my (relatively) small frame, had a similar goal in mind as they worked on their look.

At the same time - I had other friends who's interpretation of what is girly or feminine lean a little bit towards the objectification side of the spectrum that part I get all also... I also understand how some women coming from a more feminist point of view would find that presentation offensive.


Then there's a whole subgenre of sissies.... since I balked very hard in my youth about being characterized as such simply because of my general size having nothing to do with a man within. I can't tell them they don't have to right to get there kicks playing a sissy based submissive role.....but it squicks me personally.

But whenever someone who has no interest in an alternate gender presentation finds it's a good source of humiliation kink to dress as a girl (DRAG)... that offends me and I think ought to offend women.

I mean can you imagine a feminist lesbian "making" the other one wear a strap on so that she can humiliate her small penis. At some point genderqueer and gender fucking needs to be treated a little bit better than the red headed step child of the glbt community.

I was recently ambushed by a supposedly well meaning friend of mine who described herself as a queen bee....so very chic to have gay friends. She invited 3 gay friends of hers to happen to be off my religious background to a dinner party where I cooked.

One of them expressing interest in drag performing.... not my genre, but I was trying to show him the video I had taken recently of a genetic girlfriend of mine pulling off what I wouldve wanted to affect as a nice walk in great business attire.

He gave me a bunch of crap amounting to:" ooh, I'm gay! girls are yucky...why would I like to see that?"

attitude like that is why I think that often drag queens are picturing female and feminine wiles I actually find their performances offensive to me as a transvestite and i dont see why it isnt seen as offensive to women. They are clearly sometimes clowning on all things feminine and not from a place of respect.

So, the "forced feminization" thing I get if its a loving coersion...some people do need a little nudge into something frilly where they might well be able to let go, enter sub space and be who they are evolving to be...but as punishment?

yeah, don't trow me into dat der briar patch!